NACRA 5.8 / 6.0 Rudder System

Anyone parting out a Nacra 5.8 /6.0 boat?
Please PM me.
looking for complete rudder system for experimental
change out of my P19's cantankerous rudder setup.

The larger blades of the P19 rudders, make up for the smaller centerboards vs. the deeper daggers on the Nacra 5.8-6.0, which has smaller rudders.

Are you having problems with the Prindle rudder design, lock down bolts, etc?

There have been many threads about how to 'troubleshoot' those.

good luck.

Do not change out the P19 rudder system for the 6.0 system. The P19 rudders work much better than the 6.0. The rudders on the 6.0 are way too small. The lockdown mechanism isn't as good in my opinion either.

The most common problem with the P19 rudders is:
A) The springs need to be replaced.
B) The lockdown bolt is bent.
C) Someone has messed with the system trying to fix it but does damage.

PM me if you want to talk about it. It's been years since I messed with a P19 but I have always been fond of the boat.

If you want to change the rudders for something superior buy the rudder set off an old H20. I really liked that rudder system. The I20 is nice too.

Butch,

Please research my old posts about the P-19 ..... I have a wee bit of experience w/ the boat (as I look out into my snow covered yard, mine is sitting on her trailer buried under her cover....) You may find the answer to your particular issue .... my rudder system works just fine ... it just took a little time w/ some files to shape the lock-down pin ... file the slots slightly longer ... or repair the "new" style rudder blades that split from top-to-bottom from shear loads along the seam

All are easy fixes .... they just take a little time and thought in determining what is actually causing the problem ....

If you can not locate my old "posts" .... then post here what the problems seem to be and I'll try to explain what the fix is ....

Harry Murphey
P19MX/ Sail#86

First let me say that I appreciate all the advice and offers to help. It just goes to
show the kind of class the people here on CatSailor have, and I thank you all.

I think I need to clear up some possible misconceptions though. My first Prindle
was a 15 in '94. One season on that boat and I went to a P16. 2 Seasons on that
boat and I went to a P18. I had the P18 till 2009. Then I got my P19.

I know the Prindle rudder system...and all its foibles and tricks. HMurphy, you
have always been a source of info for many aspects of owning and sailing a Prindle.
I followed all your tips on how to mod and improve the rudders on my 18 as well as on
my 19. They helped a great deal. My current rudder system has been modded according to
all the tips found here at CatSailor. They work smoothly and without problems.

The PROBLEM is not the rudders per say...its me. I am tired of having to depower
the boat to reset the rudders aftera kick-up. I am tired of listening to the
rope handles knock around. I have also had two instances of the rope handles
hanging up and freezing the tiller in one position till I depowered and cleared the snag.

What I do want is to be able to set or reset the blades without having to depower
the boat and yank on ropes.

After having seen the Nacra system in operation for several years I was kind
of leaning towards that setup, but there have been several points made that
show that would not be a good switch for my boat.

Mike Hill, thank you, it appears that the H20 setup is just what I have been wanting.
The ability to raise and lower a kick-up system by lifting on the cross bar would be
ideal for me I think. Yes, I know about the various ....gremlins... in the Hobie
system but I don't think they are any worse than the Prindle, or Nacra, just different.

So... anyone parting out a Hobie 20 or 21?


p.s. Feel free to slam, bam and check in....all views appreciated, all opinions on which
rudder system is best will be...discussed

Mount the Inter-20 system. Use the Gen 3 (Infusion) blades.

Why one over the other Keith?

This will be a semi-serious investment
and I'd like to get some feedback
before investing the (to me) big bucks.

I'd agree with Keith except for the blades. I like the gen 1s.
The twos are an abortion, stay away.Worst of everything.
The gen 1s are narrower chord and allow for more high speed maneuvering with less drag. They can stall out at lower speeds or if you overload them.No big deal as long as you know the signs.
The 3s have a longer chord(width) and maneuver well at low speed but due to the extra width create more drag in turns and I would assume more drag in general.

After doing a little research...it APPEARS that the same rudder system
is used on several different models of Nacras. I20, N20, F18 and F17.
Can anyone confirm?

Yes.
I20 and N20 are the same.Also on the Infusion and new F20 . Pretty standard until you get back before about'98 or '99. The metric designated boats 5.7,5.8,6.0, had a different set-up with lines.

If you're putting them on a P19, I wouldn't go with the first generation rudders since the P19 has center boards. This is a good point though, why swap one out dated rudder set up for another out dated one. Go with the new Nacra set up and the Third Generation rudders.

Pics of the N20 rudder setup and DIY Spi pole:

http://www.thebeachcats.com/index.php?module=pictures&g2_itemId=72912

Sailing Report: Gained approx 2 degrees pointing to windward,
fingertip control, up/down is so easy the wife is now doing
it Still working on smoothness of turning in a tack, but
so far it seems to be easier with less chances of stalling.

very nice

lots of hard work there

should be a flyer

Switching to the N20/Infusion rudder system is the way to go.

1) Popping the rudders back down under load still isn't easy, but it may be better than the P19 rudders

2) Get the machined pintails (little eyes that screw on the rudder casting). Should be standard on a brand new setup but worth the upgrade if you get a used set of rudder hardware.

3) I prefer the Gen 3 blades in general over the Gen 1 blades, especially in light air and during buoy racing. The two are pretty different, it took a full day of driving in Tybee to get used to the Gen 1 blades after we broke a Gen 3 blade. I think the Gen 1's can be faster in the right conditions (medium wind, i.e 7-15 kts). Anything higher or lower and the gen 3's win for there ability to drive better in light air and not stall as easily in heavier air.

4) At the end of the day though, it comes down to bucks, and the Gen 1's cost HALF as much per blade as the Gen 3's.

Not that easy. Look at the angle of the 5.8/6.0 sterns compared to the N20 sterns. You won't have enough adjustment with the screws to get your rake right.



You're absolutely right. It would suck to waste all that money and find out it won't work.
If you did some transom mods, it could work. BUT one important thing you're missing is that the blades and foils are designed to work with each other and the center of effort of the boat.

That might be "PINTLE" you're going for there instead of "PINTAIL", but anyhow, those are a type of gudgeon, not pintles...

I was thinking you were meaning changing a 6.0 to the Nacra 20 set up. Oops.

I'm looking for a new set of rudders for a p19. I currently have the old style and need only one (one was damaged in a storm as the boat was blown off a boat lift) or would upgrade to two new ones. If anyone knows of where I could find some I'd appreciate it. I also saw on another post that the older p18 rudders would be a good replacement b/c they are longer. I'm open to suggestions. Seeking a centerboard too.

Check out Pete look on any of the southern California Craig's List

Search prindle site:craigslist.org

You'll find him

http://www.manta.com/c/mttm3h9/big-bear-sailing

this'll get you a phone # for Pete

Dave

Here came across this morning, looks like this guy has what your looking for.

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/boa/1788321455.html