Shopping for a boat

I sailed catamarans quite a bit in the 70's and early 80's but the usual life events (marriage, children, etc.) put an end to that. However, I just got back from a trip to the Dominican Republic, where I was able to take my wife out on a Hobie Wave a few times in some good onshore winds. She used to give me 'the look' whenever I mentioned sailing or buying a boat, but now that she's actually tried it, she's hooked. As soon as we got back she started looking for used boats for sale! I have pretty much decided that I would like a Nacra 570/580 or it's nearest equivalent.

Buying one used would be nice, but now that I live in Nova Scotia the opportunities to buy one locally are exactly zero. I see some for sale in Florida, or Texas, but that's a long ways away to buy a boat sight unseen. I've checked out the nacra.ca site, but there's no address. I was even in Toronto last week on business and would have liked to drop in on 'Faster Boats' but it only seems to exist on the Web!
I pictured buying a new boat as a process similar to buying a new car - you go to a showroom, check out the various models, maybe even go for a test drive (I can dream, can't I? :)). Am I just supposed to send an email to dave@nacra.ca, tell him to order me a boat, and wait for it to show up at my door? Seems a bit odd, if this is the national dealer for Nacra products. I'll keep on checking the classifieds...just curious about how the new boat sales business works and how it differs from other retail.

You might have better luck with a hobie dealer. Several in Ont and Quebec.

I would contact Jill at Fun in the Sun (clearwater, FL) about an F18. There are some active sailors from Nova Scotia who travel down here to Florida quite a bit so there might be some delivery options.

http://www.falconmarinellc.com/models.html

Come on down to sunny Florida and test drive a new Blade or Falcon F16...the NACRA 570/580 had its day...today belongs to F16. A lot has changed in the last ten years, let alone the last 30...check it out before commiting to anything.

As much as I love my F16, it's not the boat for everyone. Weight of the crew, skills, usage, predominant wind speed where you are going to sail are all factor to take into consideration.

Why don't you tell us:

* what conditions are predominant in the part of the world you are going to sail in? More than 20 knots of wind frequent? Or mostly 8 to 10 knots? What kind of waves, short chop, long rolling waves?
* Launch facilities? Beach launching in surf? A nice ramp in a protected area? Rocky beach? How far will you need to move the boat by hand?
* Not much water and rocks lurking under the surface or nice deep water?
* There is no trapeze on a wave, the boats you talk about are double trapeze. Just so you prepare your wife
* Do you intend to race around buoys? Go for day trips? Or just sail back and forth on a screaming reach?
* Always the two of you? Being able to sail alone a desirable thing? Or want to take two buddies to go the the island a couple of miles away?
* A rough budget?

Answers to those questions would narrow your choices by indicating a rough approximation of:

- What rig power you need, and how to control it (no trapeze, one trapeze, dual trapeze)
- Daggerboard or centerboard or neither
- Weight and length of the platform
- Hull material (heavy but tough, or light but delicate)
- A spi is fantastic, but could be intimidating...

And so on... We can help you narrowing the choice to 3 or 4 models. Once that's done contact the manufacturers or an active fleet and ask for a ride.

I am sure there are some knowledgeable folks on this list that will help you with buying a boat, that is look at it for you before you buy it.

As a word of comfort, I have not come across too many cat sailors selling a boat that is not what they said it was.

Good luck.

Hi Ryan,
That is a pretty inconsiderate comment. Not sure what the problem is considering that you have never bought anything from me. It doesn't pay to have a store front in this business unless you have a full service chandlery.
Dave

580 going through it's paces here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbTaD3c1UG4

what about the mystere boys in quebec?

http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/10411/cat/1

570 in Ca

Good luck finding a boat.

Call my friend Olivier at Sextant Marine a call. He'll give you a hand.

http://www.sextantmarine.com

I was going to suggest that, but those are a dead class, (edit) he seems to be looking at NEW boats(/edit), parts are getting more rare, and the prices i have seen at the school in quebec seem very high to me, but i do love my 5.5.

if interested: Yves Sansoucy has continued to run his sailing school, ... École de voile Sansoucy 150, 27e avenue Pointe-Calumet J0N 1G1 (450) 472-8042"

Dave
You're taking this personal. I have nothing against you or your business, you can run it however you like. I am just trying to help a guy find a boat.

I have never bought a new cat, but i as far as used one's go i always suggest people at the VERY least have the seller completely rig the boat prior to payment (to make sure all the parts are there, and so you can see how to rig it).

I personally would probably not buy a boat (or car) (again) without a test sail to make sure it floats and works. my first cat was missing parts and i had to spend about $400 to get it up and running.

Thank you everyone for your responses! Providing answers to Pepin's questions seems like a good place to start.
I will also mention that there is a Hobie dealer in Dartmouth (Atlantic Winds Adventure http://www.atlanticwindsadventure.com/) but the Hobie lineup seems to have a gap right where I'd like a boat to be. He tried to sell me a Getaway. I want something bigger and a little more spirited - the 14' cat I built in High School long, long ago would run circles around it, I think, (apologies to any happy Getaway owners). Then the product line jumps up into the stratosphere with the Tiger and FXOne going for $22,000 and $29,000 respectively! It's like having to choose between a Kia Rio and a Ferrari, when what I want is an RX-8.
There's also an AHPC dealer in Halifax (http://www.ahpc.com.au/Dealers.html)! I couldn't find it when I was there...need to hunt around on foot I guess. It's right in downtown Halifax, so it's likely to be a little hole-in-the wall shop with nothing but brochures. Probably priced like an FXOne as well; a bit out of my league I think. I'm not trying to win the World Championships :-)

* what conditions are predominant in the part of the world you are going to sail in? More than 20 knots of wind frequent? Or mostly 8 to 10 knots? What kind of waves, short chop, long rolling waves?
Winds here are typically either 10-20 knots or dead calm. Light winds are relatively rare, and I doubt I'd take the boat out then anyway - I like going fast.

* Launch facilities? Beach launching in surf? A nice ramp in a protected area? Rocky beach? How far will you need to move the boat by hand?
Still investigating. There are several nearby yacht clubs with sheltered ramp access. The beaches I know about have no access for boat launching, but there are lots I don't know about yet. Assume a ramp for now.

* Not much water and rocks lurking under the surface or nice deep water?
Water is mostly deep everywhere. Sailing up to Melmerby beach at low tide I'd want to be careful, but the bottom is sandy out to 100 yards from shore!

* There is no trapeze on a wave, the boats you talk about are double trapeze. Just so you prepare your wife
LOL - a nice photo of a 570 with two people on a trapeze has been my desktop wallpaper for a couple of months. She won't go out on the wire, but I will.
I'm a pretty big man (6'3", 245 lbs) - I think I could hold it down all by myself with her sitting on the windward hull. We were far too much for that poor Wave.
I can always spill power off the main if I need to, which is better than wanting more power but not having it.

* Do you intend to race around buoys? Go for day trips? Or just sail back and forth on a screaming reach?
There's no class racing here that I know of - I asked the owner of AWA and he knew of none either. I plan to skipper the boat with one or more guests aboard
during the summer (friends, relatives, nieces, nephews). No more than 4 people on board at one time for just sailing back and forth. Might work my
way up to sailing across Northumberland Strait to PEI, but mostly just fun sailing within sight of land.

* Always the two of you? Being able to sail alone a desirable thing? Or want to take two buddies to go the the island a couple of miles away?
I would never be taking the boat out single-handed. Mostly the two of us, plus occasional guests. I have a couple of friends that I think could make
effective crew for really getting the boat moving while she watches from the beach :-).

* A rough budget?
What can I get for $15,000?

Answers to those questions would narrow your choices by indicating a rough approximation of:

- What rig power you need, and how to control it (no trapeze, one trapeze, dual trapeze)
- Daggerboard or centerboard or neither
- Weight and length of the platform
- Hull material (heavy but tough, or light but delicate)
- A spi is fantastic, but could be intimidating...
Don't need a spinnaker to start with. I'd be the only one who would know how to set it, and I can't do that and steer too!

PitchpoleDave, are you the Dave that owns the nacra.ca site?

any beachcat model (used)

So you need:

- 18 to 20 feet. You will not fit 3 to 4 adults on anything smaller
- Fiberglass. Lighter and faster than any rotomolded boat.
- Center board or Daggerboards a must. Makes for a better boat that is easier to tack and goes upwind better
- Not a buoy only toy, aka extra light, extra powerful. You need something more substantial.

In the $15000 price range, go used. I'm not sure what you can find locally but in Europe with those constraints you can get:

* a Hurricane 5.9. Really nice boat, the version with a pinhead main and no spi is a great reaching machine.
* an oldish F18 (like the Tiger, Alado, Mattia, Cirrus, lots to choose from)
* An old Tornado could do the trick on the extreme end of the scale. Those are *big* and powerful but you will not find anything faster! Price of those has gone down recently, but maintenance costs are heinous however...
* A Nacra Inter 20. Or its successor the Nacra 20.
* A little smaller, the Nacra 580. Not a lot of them around however. I've never seen one I think...

Those boats mostly come with spinnaker these days, or can be equipped with one. You can remove the spi hardware and sail them without it, but frankly that would be a shame. Spi are mounted into a sock and go up in three seconds on any tack. I can manage steering and the spi on my F16 sailing solo, no problem. It just takes a bit of training.

I'm sure people on your continent will have good suggestions as mine are probably more tailored to Europe: I'm not sure there are any H5.9 in North America. A shame really as it would be the perfect boat for you

if you are going used, and you have that budget.. i would look into a mystere 5.5 or 6.0 (with lots of spares like extra rudders, rudder castings, as those are the biggest issue with our brand)

this should be in the $4-$7k range, with your budget you could get new sails and lots more..

Thanks Pepin. I had to do a search for Hurricane 5.9's. I had not heard of them before but yes, that is just the kind of boat I am looking for! Very nice. You see why I'm looking at Nacra as well...big boats but not overly complex. You're right about the Tornado - that is at the extreme end of my list of choices! I can see now that it's unlikely that my budget extends to a new boat in this size/class, yet it's more than enough to buy a used beach cat anywhere in North America. I know nothing about buying and shipping something this big, if I find a good buy on a used boat in Florida or Texas or California. Obviously there must be companies that do this all the time. I have a brother-in-law who owns his own truck and drives a North-South route from here to the Carolina's...I'll have to ask him some questions.

Time to do a search for Mystere's as well and see what they're like.

here's what they're like
6.0


and
2, 5.5's

A friend of mine is selling his Hobie Tiger for about $6,000 without trailer. If you like I can ask if he sold it yet. It is on the West Coast and in okay shape. He is able to make it go pretty fast but decided to buy a Capricorn.

Dan

Nice catamarans all. I missed that post from DougSnell about the 570 in CA. That looks like a very nice boat and includes everything I need (trailer,beach wheels). I think I'll send an email today! If I bought it, the next hurdle is how do I get all that stuff from there to here (6000 miles away diagonally across the continent and the border)? Time to do some research on the transport industry...

Hey Pepin, awesome info. Are you saying you handle the main, jib and spin alone on the F16? Or just the Main and spin?

If the 570 doesn't work out you should try a Nacra 5.8, your budget would get close to a new one, they don't need a spinnaker and are very forgiving when your first getting used to it then if you get serious you can learn how to power it up. The downside is learning how to handle the weight on the beach, the beach wheels need to be under the middle then you can put it on and off the trailer on your own. They've got high buoyancy bows I never pitchpoled mine even when jumping one wave into the middle of the next, no boom and 4 people for cruising is fine. It's got a big jib, if you get serious about pointing up as in racing and your wife is not too strong she would have to hand you the jib sheet for you to pull the last bit on.

A class compliant F16 is main+spi solo, Main+jib+spi in duo. But I've used my jib solo before, only in low wind however, when it's windy you don't need the jib there is enough power as it is. Not to mention that I only have two hands and that's already not enough

check here

http://www.catsailor.com/cs_classifieds.html

and these

2006 nacra f18 in texas $6000
http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/10439/cat/1

2008 nacra 570 in cali $11,000
http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/10411/cat/1

2008 alter cup capricorn f18 in florida $12,000
http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/10405/cat/1

2002 hobie tiger in new york $10,000
http://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/showproduct.php/product/10398/cat/1

Thanks for the reply.

There is a NACRA 5.8 listed in Vermont listed in the classified section - that seems a bit more closer than the 570 in California.

Also check out New England Catamarans I'm sure Rick has his ear to the ground on folks looking to sell their boats.

Also the Cat House http://www.cathouse1.com/main.htm

Take the 5.8 for a run on a reach in 17kts, keep it flat and watch all the fine spray around the back of you while you stay dry as the boat with its wide flat hulls skips like a pebble accross the top of the chop then try the others. Or do the same with 3 people in 20 kts

Old Salt - I'm the AHPC dealer in Canada and am bringing back a trailer with a C2 F18, 2 Viper F16's and a Taipan in a few weeks - one more boat wouldn't be an issue!!! Let's chat! I live in Halifax NS and have brought back MANY different cats over the past 10 years. We're trying to get a racing fleet together in Halifax but it's been a struggle to find people who want to buy boats. We would love to have a local training partner as our current group is a 10 hour drive away!!!

Call me anytime 902-452-7595.
Chris

Old Salt,
Your gonna want to take Chris up on his transport offer. I've bought several boats all over the US, and I've either had to go get it, or find a catsailor willing to drag it to me for a reasonable fee.

Dave

Absolutely! I'm at work right now and shouldn't really be here but hey, this is important stuff! I spent some time looking at various boat transport options on the weekend and from what I found, any kind of reliable service is going to charge $2500-$3500 dollars (or more) depending on distance, so Chris, you'll be getting a call today...

Old Salt,

I'm around all afternoon today - call or e-mail anytime. I live in Halifax, however also have a cottage in Northport on the Northumberland Straight. We're having an awesome training camp / regatta off the shores of Northport in July and would love to have another local partake!!! First regatta since the old Hobie 16 days about 10-15 years ago. Great fun!

Let's chat!

Chris
452-7595
prenticechris@hotmail.com

Had a great chat with Chris on the phone this afternoon! He has a lot of contacts with boat owners looking to sell that aren't necessarily online, knows some of them personally as well. Having a local dealer for support also makes great sense. We'll be in touch quite a bit over the next week or so before he heads across the border...
It's unfortunate that we're just now dealing with a much-loved family member who was recently admitted to our Palliative Care center, but I hope that I can arrange things so as not to miss a great opportunity. Thank you everyone for all your help and advice - I'll be out on the water soon, with any luck.

Hope your family gets well.

PS don't worry about missing an opportunity, there will always be boats for sale~!

Buy a Wave. That is what you had fun on while on vacation. Easy to sail, trailer, set up, etc.

Umm...no. If I weighed 170lbs and had a strong desire to sail singlehanded...I think it would still be no. It's the smallest boat I've ever been on, and I like my space. Did you read my requirements? My impression of the Wave was not positive, although I'll grant that the boat might have had some serious de-tuning done to it by the resort folks to keep newbie guests safe. The huge amount of weather helm was just one issue. Having to use the hiking straps on the wrong side of the boat, ditto. Having the boat shudder to a near-halt at every wave was another. Not enough power to keep that much mass in motion...

Not to worry - other plans are taking shape nicely.

I'm buying a boat - a 2007 Capricorn! Should be here mid-June, which gives the water here time to warm up a bit.

Great boat ,should give you a lot of fun.

Fred

Where is your boat coming from? Was it the one from Long Beach?
Great boats you will enjoy it.

This Capricorn is coming from Florida, actually. The current owner is moving up to a C2 from what I've been told.

"2006 Race ready AHPC Capricorn. Includes Main, practice jib, race jib, practice spinnaker, race spinnaker. Trailer not included. Beach wheels negotiable. Tuned and setup by a professional Tornado racer. (Last raced March 2010 in Gulfport, FL - first place)".

I think I'll be happy :-)

Cool
The Cap is a really nice F-18. Enjoy your new toy.

Sounds like Ollie's boat. If so, your getting a great boat! Well prepped and maintained!!!!!

This forum is like a small town - everyone knows everyone :-).

Nice. I crewed on a Capricorn last week-end. Nice boat. You'll like it.