pay back

I think the Gulf states should pass emergency legislation requiring BP retailers to buy back the spilled oil; from anyone who shows up with it!

And then we could tie the owners in chairs and throw them into rivers and see if they float! BP doesn't own the retailers..they are innocent small business owners.

Pete, you seem to have an enless supply of bad ideas.... Where do they come from? Do you think them up yourself?

BP has gone on record they will pay all legitimate claims for the clean-up. Is the goal therefore to drive them into insolvency? Punish the company for the accident?

Maybe this is the time for the debate .....
If the company is to blame, is the punishment meant to hurt the millions of stockholders (both here in the US and in the UK)? After all, 1 out of every 6 dollars that is paid out ion Britain as a pension comes from BP.

More oral flatus from the Harkonnens.

Sparky seems to be quite active today. The boobs on Faux Yabahoo News must have been really bouncing this morning.

Maybe you should step away from the keyboard...

It doesn't mean the retailers would necessarily get stuck with the tab. They might even pick up a few bucks.

Small aluminum recyclers have shops all over the country; presumably they make a profit or they wouldn't stay in business. Soda bottles used to be made of glass and payed a 2 cent return deposit. Supermarkets regularly bought them back in quantity.

This oil belongs to BP, there is nothing inherently wrong in asking them to pay to have it returned to them.

I love my Harken blocks

C'mon Andrew I'm serious. This is actually a pretty good idea if you stop and think about it.

BP could set up a collection center on an oiled beach and pay people for whatever oil they collected. That would be a lot more productive than all the "I'm sorry" ads they're running.

Let's say a fisherman goes to his favorite spot, finds it oiled, spends his time to clean it up. He then has to do something with the oil. It makes sense he should be able to take it to BP and get paid for his effort.

Pete:

Be careful - you're actually advocating a free market idea. Paying someone an agreed-upon rate for transfer of a good or service.

If BP is going to be forced into cleaning up the oil spill - which btw, the Federal Government is supposed to do - then what you suggest wouldn't be such a bad idea. Lord knows it would help "motivate" some of the Obama-economy-unemployed to take up a side job for the next few months.

But I have a feeling that this is going to happen anyways. People will be employed to help clean up the spill. What you're proposing is simply encouraging faster cleanup by paying the clean up workers based on how much they collect.

If you didn't present your idea with the intrinsic hatred and disdain for all things-private enterprise Pete, you might find more support.

Especially compared to the Ronstanians.

Okay comedian, wait 'til this crap starts washing up on your beach.

Pete

Gotta love free enterprise

Your right ,pete.
My humor just made 1,000s more gallons of oil spew into "your" gulf.Get a grip.
If only they had drilled in Alaska ,this deepwater stuff would be unnecessary.
So how do you propose the "fisherman" collect all this recyclable oil? Here's a chance for an actual good idea. Redeem yourself, but be careful.Or here's a better idea, Why don't you get your whining butt from in front of the computer and go do it yourself?

Tawd

One more Harkonnen on the ignore list.

When's the last time you saw an aluminum can on the side of the road?

Thank God. You're not worthy of my posts.

Welcome to the club Todd.

so here is my problem with this idea (not that i am opposed to new ideas)

1. this oil is toxic. we don't need untrained people not in hazmat gear handling it (yes i understand we are all going to be exposed) but this would just lead to more lawsuits

2. BP is already not paying claims (i saw a fisherman say bp has only paid him $2500 of his $75k claim and bp is telling him they will only pay his lost profits, not his lost revunes)

3. bp is already going to go broke/chap 11/ default/whatever the correct term is etc from this... they are not going to be able to pay everyone

4. it took 20+ years for exxon to start to pay out

1. do you put on your hazmat suite to pump gasoline? I can't see that scooping up oiled beach sand with a shovel and dropping it in a bucket is any more hazardous.

2. If you oblige the retailer to accept it, the claim is paid ont he spot. There are any number of ways for the retailer to get paid. My favorite would be to exchange the oil for gasoline and oblige BP to accept the oil as partial payment for gasoline deliveries. The margin is a profit for the retailer and buys him some good will.

3. I don't believe BP will go broke. In any case the spilled oil is recyclable so they will be able to recover some of their expense by refining the recovered oil.

4. If Exxon was able to slide for twenty years we should make damn sure BP doesn't get away with the same crap!

The number of people affected here in Louisiana is enormous. BP says they will pay legitimate claims but they have their own definition of legitimate. LOTS of small guys are going out of business because there is no business to be had because of the spill. Even areas not yet affected directly are shutting down because the media has them covered in oil too before it actually happens. Gentlemen, South Louisiana is in DEEP DOO!

c

The Harkonnens don't give a damn about south Louisiana but some of us do.

Around here there is a small fishing boat called a mullet skiff. It is designed to run in very shallow water. If they had a market for spilled oil, the mullet fishermen could surely collect a lot of it. Of course, if there was a market the recreational fishermen might be motivated to collect some of it.

Pete, I know you can't read this - but this is beyond the pale - even for you.

Quite frankly I'm astounded that you can think that me and people on my side of the aisle are so callous as to assume that we just don't give a **** about people. Nothing can be further from the truth - and you know it.

While we have different opinions about how to deal with this catastrophe, I think one thing that everyone can agree on is that the people of the Gulf Coast have taken it on the chin for far too many consecutive years and that this is the quite possibly the worst ecological accident in history. There's no denying that people's lives are going to be ruined through no fault of their own and that is tragic and my hopes and prayers go out to them.

i dont want to try and pick apart your idea, i am all in favor of any solutions! but, there is a serious difference between pumping gas for 4 minutes every week and going out and handling toxic materials for hours/days/weeks at a stretch.

The guys who change the oil in my car don't wear any protective gear at all. Raking up sand on an oiled beach is different than standing ankle deep in a pool of oil that might be many square yards in size.

then the guys who change your oil are risking their health. petroleum is a known carcinogen.

Is anyone going to blame Transocean for any of this?

I'm sure the common response to that would be: "Who the hell is Transocean?"

BP is a bigger name.

I'm more interested in getting it cleaned up.

I think everyone is, however you cannot demand that BP be fully responsible for all cleanup and reparations when they weren't fully responsible for the spill in the first place.

Another Harkonnen weighs in.

Jesus Pete, is that the only response you have to everything? Do you really think that there are any parties involved with this that are waving their pom-poms at every drop of crude that is being wasted? Come on man, try not to be so obtuse.

You're like the Queen of Spades from Alice in Wonderland.

BTW- Harkonnen? I had to Google it. Dune?

sure they are, just like the ceo's of a company is responsible in the end. Even if the CEO didn't know ... it's his head that rolls

There may be fault all around, all the players had a part in it, but its the responsibility of bp to make sure all operations are up to snuff.

but this was an accident and blame doesnt clean anything up. only money will clean some of it up...

Let bp sue halliburton and transocean and the oil after its cleaned up to recoup any costs they want...

So what you're saying is if you use something and it breaks, whether you're responsible for it breaking or not, you're always responsible for it breaking?
I'm not saying BP isn't responsible; I'm advocating for a fair and equal distribution of blame and cleanup responsibility.

Pete, I don't necessarily dismiss your suggestion, but I'm not sure of all the logistics.

So I find a tar ball on the sand. I scoop it up and put it in my sand bucket (no self-respecting beachgoer shows up without one, right), take it to a retailer (only BP? Why not any retailer?) who gives me a $ per pound of the goop?

And the fishermen somehow scoop up the sheen to return to the retailer for a similar fee/pound?

Sounds reasonable in principle, but just don't know if it'd work out on a large scale - we've got lots of coastline.

And it might be a good way to get rid of some leftover waste oil at my plant without having to pay a haz-mat disposal company

Speaking of waste oil, those quick-lube folks do wear gloves and other protective equipment. That stuf does have some nasties in it from combustion and wear of the metallic parts in the motor. But refined oil was put in there in the first place, which is "better" than the raw crude spitting out into the water, right? You chemists can chime in here...

I know of several retailers who are currently with BP. What I find strangely ironic was that the reason they switched to BP (some were with Mobil, one with Chevron, and one with Shell) was that BP was the only company willing to help them pay for underground tank replacement - so the fuel wouldn't contaminate the groundwater.... Who would have thunk-it?

http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_new...-of-tarball-material-recovered-from-gulf

Now that right there is funny!

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/542683

well thats not exactly what i said but:
yes, if you rent a lawnmower and accidentally cut off your neighbors foot...YOU are responsible. EVEN if there was a defect in the unit... you are gonna get sued.. you are gonna pay.. after that.. you can sue Toro to get reimbursed
sure, lets blame all the players, sure let them all pay, i could care less who/when/where.

the fact is.. this horrific mess will NEVER get cleaned up 100%

the fact is, i am thanking god every day i get to sail in my beautiful backyard. Saturday i sailed with a pod of 20 dolphins, sailed next to Ospry fishing, sailed with my closest friends ... and did it again yesterday.. and its all in jeopardy

the fact is i am just waiting for the black death to come and ruin my heaven on earth.. then what do i do? move to .... ???

i was spoiled with some of the most incredible sailing in the world.. and i was thankful every week when i got to sail in it (i have sailed 2-3 days a week for the past 4 years)..

and my life (along with evreyone elses) will be changed/crapped on because BP used shortcuts/ someone didnt check a battery in a blow out preventer / someone decided that relief wells were to costly / and other hardware wasn't in place that (admittedly are expensive) that could have helped.

I also blame myself and everyone else for demanding oil
i blame ronald mcdonald...

the us govt had to relaxed regulations.. etc etc etc...

none of that will help stop the 250,000 gal a day (or what ever the # is) pouring into MY sailgrounds

Here is two tons of good news. "The device was designed and built in a single week. The technology is now being duplicated for wider use in the response."


http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/doc/2931/655911/

That is great

You will be surprised how quickly nature deals with spilt oil, in the 80's we used to go to a stunning Spanish beach just up from Gibraltor, passing oil tankers used to clean their tanks and discharge them, the outcome was our sandy beaches were a mess of tar balls. Usually it took only weeks to completely grind down the tar with the waves and sand and it was surprising how quickly it dissappeared from the water line and that further up the beach seems to break down with the sun and elements. Our kids became realy adept at removing it from their feet with the best tar remover of all, olive oil.

Obviously quantities are greater here but I wouldn't be to dispondent about long term spoiling of your waters once the well is capped.

i have no experience with oil and tar
i really hope you are correct
i heard today bp hopes to collect 40-50,000 barrels a day by next week.. ummmmm so thats whats spewing now?

Ummmmmmmmm, Prince William Sound, Alaska.

You cannot directly compare the degradation rate of the EV oil with that of the Gulf oil.

The degradation rate is highly dependent on temperature and UV exposure. The Gulf is way hotter and sunnier than Prince William sound.

The oil is much lighter in the Gulf and much of it evaporates. It starts a lot further offshore and has a lot more opportunity to degrade before it reaches the shore.

Still, the sheer volume of the Gulf spill ensures that its effects will be with us for a long time.

It'll be interesting to see the differences between the two long-term.

There's a huge difference between cleaning up sandy beaches compared to wetlands and estuaries. The impact on the latter will be far reaching and devastate fisheries for a long time to come.

Which is the best reason to put some sort of bounty on this oil.

It seems to me that BP is putting itself in the position to clean the beaches ONCE. They'll try to wait until a beach is ankle deep before they make any attempt at all. Obviously, oil will continue to wash ashore onto beaches and marshes for years after all the hoopla has subsided and local communities will be left with the bill.

how's the tiki deck restoration going?

It isn't.

...actually, you can help me with that. I will try to have it ready for Steeple chase. Not to compete, just to observe.

You may "remind" me if you wish.