safety line

I'm going to be doing more sailing alone and that creeps me out a little. I'm reluctant to trapeze at all when off shore.

Did we ever figure out a system to keep from being separated from the boat? What sort of harness/line combo do the leaners use?

I bought a climbing carabiner to hook onto my harness and run the mainsheet through. Haven't tested it yet, should work.....

Pete,

When the stuff was knarly enough during the T500 to hook up (wasn't back in 2009 the last time I did it) the safety line, I used two carabiners with about 25' of high-tech line cover with a about a 15' bungee inside of it. This "scrunched up" the line to make it more manageable on the tramp.

More importantly though is that I had a knife on my lifejacket that I could easily get to in case I got dragged by the tether. I still don't like the idea of the tether but I can see how they can add a degree of comfort to some.

Its scary watching your boat float away with no one on it. Especially if you don't even have somebody else to go; "hey, is that a shark?", to.

I'm thinking 10'-15' of line, a large stainless ring on the maind sheet, located between the beam and traveler (or maybe located in front of the traveler cleat), then attached to my harness with a carabiner.

Pine Island sound has a dense shark population, it is a nursery for five different species, iirc. Also, large hammerheads are legendary in Boca Grande Pass. But my real worry is hypothermia.

I think hooking up to the mainsheet would not be smart. You fall off and your weight in the water will just sheet the main in to drag you in the water faster.

Yes, but wouldn't that tip the boat over? That was the plan...

Maybe, but if you fall off on the windward side your weight would still be on the windward side. The sheets may go around back, but there is a lot of stuff to go around. Why not do some tests for us - hook up your system, get the boat going and just drop off the trap and see what happens. Try it on different points of sail and get someone in a power boat or jet ski to follow you. Then let us all know so we will finally have an answer to this question.

There's an idea!!

The first time I did this yes, it sheeted in the main and off I went for a little ride - it was slow, but no fun. Fortunately I was aft and was able to turn the rudders to get the boat pointing into the wind. It also tweaked my back a little bit

With that I added about 10' feet of main sheet/traveler line and this seem to fix the issue. The second time, I had a "can't miss" trap hook fail and in I went. Boat drug me along for a few yards and the headed up wind to a stop. My boat at the time (Prindle 18-2) also had a little weather helm.

i have tested this... my "can't miss" trap ring broke (the cable inside it rusted) and i fell off in about 15..

if i hadn't held the main... the boat would have left me.. i held tight, it sheeted as it took off and capsized...

i think it may make sense to carry flares and a vhf ON YOUR PERSON (along with a knife) if you plan to solo more than eyeshot off shore

Aren't you the guy that leaves his PFD on the deck most of the time?

I would think that as a single hander, having the main sheet in if I fell off would eventually cause the boat to head up or flip over, both of which would be better than have it sail happily off on its own.

The caribeaner through the mainsheet/traveler sounds easy enough as long as it won't turn into a tangled mess during transitions. If you're racing, it's probably not needed as others will be on the course. If you're cruising, you probably don't need to worry about a mess as you will be planning your transitions well in advance and executing them rather slowly (and less frequently) in comparison.

I used to have a windsurfing uphaul "scrunchy" that was similar to the custom bungee described above. I guess the question is where would you attach it on your person? Perhaps a coastal cruising safety harness would be appropriate (under the PFD?)

If you're out there single handing, a PFD on your person is a must, especially since your F16 has a boom (or "ow-ie" as the toddler calls it) and you COULD face the possibility of having your "bell rung" if conditions went sideways while you were out (unforseen T-storm, running by the lee to make a drawbridge or tight channel, etc). It also reduces the chance of drowning due to alleged hypothermia (which someone posted some video research that showed people usually die of cold water shock/drowning long before they are considered hypothermic).

In any case, this is a good topic to discuss Pete... Perhaps one day I too shall regain the freedom and joy of coastal cruising around this beautiful coastline... I guess part of this hinges on getting hold of Stefan...

I never hooked it up but i have a system built into my astral lift jacket that was intended for towing kayaks. It's a strap around e vest with a ring and a quick release buckle. E ring has a piece of small line tied to it which is then coiled into a small pouch on the side of the jacket that is held closed with a zipper. I kept a carbiner on the end of that line for clipping unti the boat or tossing the line. Ideally, if clipped in and separated, the line would uncoil from the pouch until taught and i could still get free by pulling a quick release ball in the jacket.

I like the quick release function on that... in case for some reason you do need to disconnect and let the boat go....

another thing that you might want to consider about attaching to the mainsheet is the potential damage done to the rudder and steering system. Getting back to a boat that has no steerage because your safety line made your crossbar a two-piece kit might not be the best solution possible!

There is a very good chance, that the boat goes not over if you sheet in and hang on line over the winward hull. I have tested it with a H15, me on the main sheet and my crew on the tiller extension - behind the boat and going 10kts or so. I know also from an A-cat which went some miles without crew until it capsized...
Personally I don't like to be tethered to the boat, there is always the risk to get tangeled once capsized.
My rule is, have always a sheet in the hand. And I mean always. Have communication device(s) on you, not on the boat. Tell people that you are sailing. Exercise capsizing until you have confidence in your abilities.

Cheers,

Klaus

Sadly, I have field tested this (more than once), indirectly...

If you fall off the windward side of the boat and don't let go of the mainsheet, you will end up behind the boat, and the boat will stop. If you're lucky, it might round up and not flip, but if it's windy, it will likely capsize. Either way, better than floating in the water with no boat around.

Mike

How about leading the safety line forward from the main blocks? I have some grommets in my tramp in line with the shrouds, more or less. Put a heavy line through the grommets, a good stout ss ring on that line and run the safety line through the ring, to the harness. Then, if you go overboard the safety line, hopefully won't destroy the steering link. If you experiment a little with the length of the safety line, you'd be bobbing along near the rudders and, hopefully, could bring the boat head to wind.

I don't think you would want a safety line attached to the tramp. I don't think the tramp would be able to take it unless you included a ton of the tramp. Quick release on the attachment to your harness would be key. A knife is necessary... but pulling a release shackle is a quicker and less error prone way to go. I don't know where I would attach it really.... maybe where the upper blocks attach to the boom?

I had an incident where a crew member become separated from the boat when we tipped once that caused me to call a mayday as I had lost sight of him. The wind was blowing dogs off chains, with about a two foot sea, and my boat was making 5 kts while on its side. Unbeknown to me, the slug that was my crew that day could not swim or should I say made no effort to get back to the boat. Boy can those Coast Guard boats move!!!!!

From this incident I had put some thought into this as where we sail stuff can happen real quick even to an experienced sailor/good swimmer and I don't want to make any phone calls to the family.

That said, I did this with my 5.8 tramp, that is had some heavy duty webbing sewn into both sides with a loop to attach a Spinlock elastic safety tether. One was right in front of the main sheet traveler cleat and another just after the tramp bag for the crew. Never got the chance to test under real conditions but it worked OK when testing it while having a crew on board. And wasn't too bad when we tipped. When I added a spinnaker to the boat, it turned out to be a mess fouling line and creating some confusion.

The next thing I tried was a pad eye on the rear beam and the main beam that we could attach the teather to, that worked OK but was a pain sometimes I would forget to unhook when tacking or gybing.

I also tried putting a heavy duty D ring over the foot strap, tacking the strap to the tramp with heavy duty webbing at both ends, and attaching to that. But again one more thing to do when you're tacking. Nothing big when your pleasure sailing but when racing it was.

Pleasure sailing is exactly the point. The goal is to be truly self rescuing and not be dependant on the Coast Guard or even the passing boat.

No sir, i wear my pfd almost all the time. there was a period when i didn't but that was a few years ago

Couple of quick points:

Pete, this is for your Blade, correct? I would think that if you fell of that boat, even with the spin up you could round or flip the boat by holding the mainsheet. It's a pretty light boat.

Also, as a singlehander cruising by yourself, I doubt you'd go out in conditions that would warrant this type of protection. I suspect then, that you are considering a system whereby if foul weather happens upon you that you could enable it with a minimum of fuss.

With regard to steering damage, has the crossbar broken because you hit it with the mainsheet, or hit it with yourself? Again, in bad conditions you could probably limp along without the crossbar (I believe you did so at Tradewinds last year?)

SO, if my understanding of your intention is correct, you really just want something in place to keep you from having to swim back to shore/mangroves/sharks. If that is correct, then being attached to the mainsheet/traveler arrangement seems most efficient in my view.

If I fell off a singlehander I'd love it to round up, stop, drop the sails, and find its way back to me (with a towel and rum&coke.... hey, it's my "ideal" system!), but I'd be happy if I was able to remain in proximity to the boat because even though I am a confident swimmer it is slow going with all the gear on.

Yes, it's for the Blade and just for use when gunkholing. Although I have some thoughts about "the Raid Ybel". But that's for another thread...

Each time I've put the Blade over, I've become separated. Usually by just a few inches, but twice, the situation became "interesting". You'd be surprised how fast a fat man can swim with the proper motivation.

You would be surprised how fast a catamaran can move on it's side with the tramp beamed to the wind?

What about a system that detached the crossbar from the rudders?, at least on one end... maybe not perfect, but would probably result in the boat sailing out of control / tipping over... Just a random crazy thought.

I would think a system that is an extension of the mainsheet / traveller would work best, sheeting in the system once you are say 10 or so feet back (maybe 20 to get out of wash) making the boat tip / keep you connected to the boat. I've done enough offshore stuff to know that the tether is a great idea, but you ALWAYS want a knife with you if using one just incase you need to cut it (most of the time the tether will try and drown you, especially if too short). Their are knifes specifically for this that are easy to use and made to avoid cutting yourself.

My 2 cents

I also inadvertently tested the mainsheet tether, and don't recommend it.
Maiden voyage on my old Tornado, pre 2 trap days, blowing like stink. Hiking strap tie down broke. On my way past the mainsheet blocks while exiting on the leeward side I uncleated the main. Thought I was pretty smart about it, bobbed up and took a deep breath to yell at my crew who was happy out on the trap and unaware of my unplanned exit. Before I could shout, my legs were yanked out from under me. As luck would have it, the mainsheet that was wrapped around both my legs was sheeted in tight by my drag and the boat took off like a banshee. I don't know if you've ever tried to do a sit up while getting dragged through the water backwards, literally leaping out of the water like a crazed dolphin, but it ain't easy. Somehow I managed to get hold of the line and pull myself back to the boat. Until I was right there at the crossbar shouting at him, my crew had no idea of the show he missed. 30 years later I still have rope burn scars on my legs.

Maybe a tether attached to one end of the rear cross beam instead of the middle would do the trick. Or a tether to a snap shackle that would release the entire mainsheet system from the sail but still keep it and you connected to the traveler car would be even better.

I was thinking of the same tether for a single hander... Use one of the wichard snap shackles for life harnesses that will release under load. Attach your tether (red line) to the boom with a break-away line that will keep it from inadvertently releasing the mainsheet. Make it point forward so that whichever side you go off, the green line will break and spin the shackle that direction and release. Might need a bit more complex tie at the mainsheet... first to the release then a loop down to the top of the main blocks so it will release then hold you to the boat via the blocks.

I like this idea, and it sounds like it would work upwind, but you risk breaking the mast if you go MOB with the kite up.

The problem with releasing the main like that is the chances of the boat rounding up is unlikely. More like the opposite which could lead to larger problems.

If you go MOB with the kite up, you won't lose the mast as the main releases - the kite will have released too since it's only handheld and not cleated.

I was thinking more of dragging by your feet single handed with the boat on a reach which most boats will do with the main unhooked.

I agree with you Mike.

When we flipped in that race with you last winter, we got the boat back up quickly. However, the first time the jib was still cleated and she went over again. The second righting took a little longer and we were both quite exhausted. The big problem was then that we were too exhausted to get back on the boat. I was at the front beam and just couldn't get on. I had a brief scare when my trap hook got snagged on the dolphin striker rod. It took more energy to get loose from that.

My crew was inexperienced and fat, so not much help (I love you John). I knew I had to get back on so I could help him.

This is where things really went South. I decided to swim under the tramp figuring I could get on over the back beam easier. Only problem was the boat took off on a screaming reach and I couldn't get it to head up long enough to get on, remember I had broken one rudder at the start.

The only thing I could do was grab the mainsheet and flip the boat again.

Don't underestimate how quickly you can lose arm strength if such situations.

So back to the MOB situation...I think you must get the boat to head up and that will only happed if the main is tight. Releasing the main will only make the boat go faster, even if you are tethered to it.

Thoughout this whole ordeal, with both of us almost getting swept away from the boat several times, I'm surprised we never thought to tie ourselves to it. Once we were over for the last time and just trying to survive it would have been a good idea to be firmly attached with a tether.

I don't think this will work on a boat with a jib that is cleated. The boat would just foot off and drag you. On main alone, they tend to just buck along very slowly with the main unhooked. When I release the chute, it about half snuffs on its own. The windage may pull it downwind like a cleated jib.

Ask Chris Sawyer (many of you probably don't know him) how hard an I20 doing 20+ under spi hits you when you fall off. He torqued the traveler over backwards, jacked up the blocks and effed his hand up. Reason #1 to never use the plastic coated trap hoops.

Personally, I wouldn't sail solo in conditions where I didn't have some ability to self rescue. i.e. solo offshore or in cold/sever weather. Additionally, you would not see me put a tether on. I will however use a chicken line. I've sailed cats in some of the craziest sh*t ever, I have no faith in my ability to cut a tether while being dragged or that the boat will flip. Didn't US Sailing mandate the emergency release trap hooks b/c of sailors getting "tied" to their boats in bad places? Go drag behind a boat at 3-4-5 mph and see how that would feel to be tied by your waist. Sorry to sound so adament and set, but growing up the son of a boat dealer, we had all kinds of experiences. We'd drag behind mono's doing 2-3 kts and it was fun. Four kts gets tough and 5+ is hard if not dangerous. To not have the ability to let go could quickly be disasterous.

B/c of a moron skipper, I damn near got seperated going around Hatteras in the Worrell. There are risks both ways. I woudn't tether, sorry. Flame on.

Aren't some older boats set up that if you fall off they will head up wind and stop?

I agree that having the harness attach at the waist would make it difficult to recover if beign dragged.

I think Pete is working out a system for a boat much smaller than the 20, and I believe that he would be able to effectively stop his F16 if he were to fall off still connected to the maisheet/travler arrangement.

If the harness were designed in such a was as to drag you on your back facing forward (like a parachute riser), you'd (1) not get held under water (2) be able to utilize a quick release if necessary and (3) maneuver back to the craft using the lanyard.

Perhaps there is another way to disable the boat (preventing it from sailing off) if you fall? Maybe some sort of rip cord that unlocks/pops the rudders (like a kill switch on a powerboat)?

Could anyone show what happens to a uni/spin cat when the rudders are popped (1) upwind and (2) downwind.

For the purposes of this experiment, you'd have to let go of the control lines to simulate you falling off the boat. This would likely mean that the main/traveler remains sheeted, and the spin released.

I'll try it the next time I'm out.

This is also assuming that the line doesn't wrap around your neck - right? ;-)

We had a guy die that way last month on a lake near here...granted, he was intertubing behind a power boat...but still.

With some creative thinking and rigging, a safety line could be rigged to not only keep you attached to the boat, but also to deploy a small anchor or sea anchor. Around here (FL) most of the sailing we do is done in quite shallow water. 50' of small diameter line on a jet ski anchor should stop of drastically slow your boat if you get seperated. For deep water a sea anchor could probably slow the boat enough to allow you to catch back up to it, and keep the pressure off the teather.

Adding weight to a catamaran is about as popular as a turd in a punchbowl.

Put down the donut Phil...just walk away. you don't need to add any weight to your catamaran.

Joe, I'm down 15# so bring your game and RED to Juana's. . . . (sorry for the hijack. Back to tethers.)

hijack on...

you would, of course, have to show up and race Phil- as opposed to just talking about it

down 32# here ;-)

Any beachcat properly setup with slight weather helm should head up. Biggest problem is that beachcats can move pretty damn fast while capsized. "Never let go of the sheet, main or spin."

Of course, remember to let go of the tiller!

Or after the harness breaks, the tiller jams, and the boat recovers, less the skipper, don't ask me how I know. Lake Harrison, about three miles, chase boat at full speed.

I have been thinking back about the separations I have had in 25 yrs... only one came without the boat going over and that was a N20 upwind on the trap in big waves when I bounced off the hook. For capsize, a simple line to keep attached to fast drifting boat would have been best. Something to keep up when the tramp windage is dragging the boat faster than you can swim with a life jacket.

On the Nacra 20 you usually have about 10 critical seconds to remake contact with the boat if you go over in heavy winds (20+) before it orients into the wind and and it takes off on it's side. On lighter boats, A-cats F16s, etc....it's a done deal by the time you resurface on the water. I was separated from my A-cat for the first time earlier this year and was astonished at how quickly the boat accelerated away. When I went over, it was a roll-over coming around A-mark in about 12 or 14 knots of breeze and I just went off the back of the boat thinking no big deal - the boat would have to spin 180 to get the mast pointed into the wind before it could boogie. I hit the water swimming but didn't stand a chance. I was racing with a bunch of other boats so it wasn't a big deal - but it was surprising how quickly they can get away.