Outback Cup- Columbia SC - Oct 2-3

Does anyone have any info on the Outback Cup? Most the folks from Catfest this weekend were talking about going. CSC hasn't posted a NOR yet. The NOR from last year only stated that it was for mono-hulls, however I realize that was due to a scheduling conflict with Catfest. Do they plan to invite catamarans back this year? Any CSC members have info on this?

They do. David Mosley is heading up the catamaran effort at the event and I believe we'll have our own course. Multi's are invited. The gentleman that usually runs the event has something personal that's seen some alternate folks step in to manage it this year - that's probably the cause behind the delay in the NOR.

I got an email recently from Hootie Bushardt:

Outback Cup Regatta
Lake Murray Yacht Racing Association
Lake Murray, SC Columbia Sailing Club
October 2 & October 3, 2010

Benefiting the Muscular Dystrophy Association - Friedreich Ataxia

(Pre-registration Deadline Monday September 27, 2010)


This year the Outback Cup Regatta will celebrate 11 years on Lake Murray. It has grown into the largest and most popular event held for keelboats and multi-hulls on the lake. Its tremendous popularity is due to awesome parties, outstanding food, facilities second to none and sailing geared to all types of sailors from cruisers to hard core racers. This regatta, organized by LMYRA and hosted by Columbia Sailing Club, will be held Oct 2 and 3. For the last several years proceeds from this regatta have been donated to the Muscular Dystrophy Association to fight Friedreich Ataxia. So far, we have raised over $18,000 to fight this disease.

For Notice of Race and further information about the regatta, check our website lmyra.org or email regatta chairman - Tom Kelly at tjkjr716@yahoo.com. Attached is a copy of the NOR for your convenience. If you are a sailor, I know this is an event that you don’t want to miss. Forward this note on to your friends and let’s continue to make this a great event!

PS: I can’t wait to see you multi-hull sailors back this year. You folks have a fun loving spirit that is awesome.
See you at the Outback Regatta

Tom Kelly
Regatta Chairman
tjkjr716@yahoo.com

Hootie Bushardt
Assistant Regatta Chairman
bushardt@aol.com

Outback is one of the many EMSA regattas that I'm truly going to miss. If you have the chance to do this regatta, DO EET.

Looking forward to that big fat Steak. My older daughter wants to crew, so it looks like I'll take the H16. There are several other H16s going, so let's make it a big class this year.

Pre-registration ends September 27,2010. Here is the link http://lmyra.org/
Let's make a good showing sign up now !!!

Its going to be a good event this year, hope everyone can come back.
Whats new this year?

New Beach
New lauching ramp, fresh smooth cement, easy on the feet and the cat-trax

New mulch over the campground/septic system

Dave,

If I can get some Wave folks would you be able to accomodate us?

Bump Bump

Sign up now!!!

Still trying to get an answer on our Wave proposal. Left a phone message with Mosley this AM.

We have folks in Indianapolis and Sarasota that are ready to roll if we have a solid invitation.

Need an answer ASAP. Possible 5-10 boats.

Jack,

The nor says multi hulls and the wave is a multi hull so I don't see why you can't come. Unless you want your very own race course.

We don't need a different course but would like a B mark. We can actually place it ourselves. Same start and finish as everyone else. I just want to make sure we have that possibility. We don't want to interefere with the racing for the big cats. I think we can sail the same course.

I left Mosley a voicemail to jump on here and comment...though I'm sure they won't have a problem dropping in a B-mark for the waves.

I know this is a bit off subject, but is there a sail repair shop in Columbia that could do a minor luff rope repair on my main?

I can't say about Columbia, but I do happen to know someone who does sail repair in the Raleigh area.

Regards,
Eric

Water's Sails.
http://www.waterssails.net/

Big monohull sail maker but he's built a few catamaran sails and such. Harper bought an F18 spinnaker from him several years ago and it was pretty good. Water's sponsors the outback cup and is a big racer...so plan ahead.

Joe Waters is a sponsor, but he will be busy. Call him and see if he can work something out for you, if I can help in anyway, let me know.
Is Trey coming? He has some good sewing skills...and Jenn is even better
Jack, Waves are in, we can work out any courses for you.

BTW Bring your own steak knife....plastic just doesnt do the big steaks justice.

I'm sure Bill Hendrix at Mainsail Marine (Greenville, SC) could whip you up a fix if you swing by on your way down (a little out of your way)....Bill does all our trampoline mods, repairs, covers, sail reinforcement and sail repairs for Team Seacats. I have a hard time trusting anybody to work on my stuff but I don't think twice about dropping off something with Bill with my chalk marks on it. Great small sail shop in the middle of this "meca of sailing" in the upper west of SC. He's a catsailor himself and exceptionally skillful. I'll PM you his number (so the spam bots don't grab it and start calling him relentlessly). You'll need to plan ahead with him too as Fridays are short days and he has a lake house on Lake Murray in Columbia.

Bill Hendix usually comes to his Lake House on weekends, so if you can get him your sail, typically he can bring it to Columbia. tell him he needs to race with us too while youre at it!

Great. I think we will have at least 5.

Stan and Sharon Woodruff from Sarasota
Reggie Poplin from NC
Skip Kaulb from Indy
me from Cola
I'm spreading the word

Perhaps someone I don't know about will see this and join us.

It will be fun.

I'm headed for Put-In-Bay this weekend to bring my Wave south for the winter season. Who knows who else might show up.

Apparently there is no on-line entry. I guess you have to use snail mail, is that correct?

I could not find one so I just sent a snail mail.

I ended up taking it to a guy that has done some boat cushions and convertible top for me.. It's minor enough, that he shouldn't have a problem except for having to order the material. But, Let me know your guy in Raleigh for future. I did call Joe Waters.. nice guy and probably would have used him if the logistics would work out. I would like to get it done before I head to Columbia though...

OK, I'm sending mine in today. I am still working the fleet. It would be nice if they can waive the late fee since we just started working on this and the deadline is Monday. I'm telling people to just show up.

I hope that is OK.

I will send the man in charge this link so he can possibly waive the late fee.

While I would prefer they register early, I’ll waiver the late fee. However it would be very helpful if they would email me that they are coming. They will not be able to receive the free hat unless they pre-register. Early registration is to help with organization. My email is (bushardt) at (aol) dorothy dorothy com .They should send me their name and boat type if they plan to attend just to help me out. How does that sound? We’ll work it out no matter what.



Hootie

Well, the "guy" is my wife Joleen. She and Howard Alexander sew sails in a loft above Howard's workshop near the Raleigh/Cary border.

Regards,
Eric

I'll keep her in mind..

Bump Bump Pre-registration ends soon. GET OFF THE FENCE AND DO IT NOW !

For you snowbirds, It was 94 degrees here yesterday, and we swam all day in Lake Murray. Today I reaced a Laser in the low 80's, moderate breeze, and warm water. I had to flip the boat to fix the twist in the top of sail, and the water was like a warm bath.

Camping should be great, water warm, steaks big, beer cold.
Check zipcode 29212 for local weather conditions.
Right now they are predicting low 80's, which usually brings some decent wind.

Forecast is looking good.. no rain, upper 70s, 10-12 NE winds, HOT and JUICY steaks.

Don't forget to bring a real knife to cut the stake with. The plastic ones do not work very good.

almost time for two of my favorite things. SAILING AND STEAK!!!!!

Careful big boy, looks like I'll be manning the camera boat this weekend. Suck in dat gut!

I was right! steak and sailing are awesome! And Nigel as Bar Be'otch was hilarious!! Captn Hank and crew did a great job in crazy conditions. thanks the Biggie Z for great pics!

D

Yeah, hilarious until he had had enough of it and my beer cup started being filled while four feet below the tap. I guess he saw that bet coming out differently but like I told him on the water "this **** just got real...there's beer involved now". ;-)

What a fun weekend thanks to all the people that put on the event. If you did not come you missed out. Does any one have results we left before the awards because we had such a long drive home.

What were the conditions like?

I don't have a copy of the results but I have your 1st place trophy and will be sending it to Mike with a shipment tomorrow.

It was blowing 20+ and sunny and warm....sorry you missed it. The steaks were twice as big this year, and the beer was tastier and colder than ever too...
I will get the results here soon

Sorry I had to miss it as well. The 10 hour commute back and forth would have been killer though!

Hey Tad we also found out that the F20 will come out of the water at 16 knots if you are too far back on the boat. So the foils do work just have to get body weight right on the boat and going forward would not be good unless you wanted dive mode.

Here's a link to the results -

http://www.sailmax.biz/images/OutbackResults.gif

I tried posting the image in here, but it looked unreadable on this end...

I like how everyone names there boat in our area. It makes for a great read - especially when you know the story behind a few of them...like "A-crusher" is a majorly rebuilt Boyer MKIV after it was thrown into a tree after a storm earlier this year. "Just Trash" is a (mostly) Hobie 18 with extended hulls, a Track14 rudder system, an extended mast, a Hobie Tiger main, and a Hobie 18 jib. It was put together from pieces parts left over and collected over time by Bill Hendrix and looks great.

Not to take anything away from the Waves, but it's interesting that out of 18 total races (3 wave sailors X 6 races each) only two races had finishes worse than a 3rd. Those guys were sailing well, but they weren't unbeatable. How do we go about submitting these results to the Portsmouth rating gods? I rarely get to race against Waves and Getaways, but this always seems to be the outcome.

Mike is already sending them in.

Great, thanks Mike.

Even though all of those races where in shifty, spotty wind...the kind you would not normally use for data, I would support sending the results just to level the field, so to speak.

This is really perhaps another nail in the coffin of the PHRF system.

Consider:

1. On the Waves, we were able to tack on the shifts and sail to the pressure, whereby the rest of the bigger cats in our fleet (mainly Hobie 16) have a hard time tacking at all, and have a hopeless situation in very light wind. I don't know how many times I simply sailed around one stuck in irons.

2. The three Wave sailers present are all national level sailors.

3. Except for Mark Williams, none of the other boats in our fleet came close to getting decent starts in most of the races.

4. The Wave DPN is most likely derived from data taken at small local races were someone that really sucked sailed a Wave and finished very poorely.

I agree that the number doesn't fully represent the potential outcome. It would be interesting to score the same races using SCHRS. I expect the results would still stand.

Ratings comparison:

Hobie 16 DPN = 76 SCHRS = 1.145 converted to DPN = 79.3
Hobie 18 DPN = 71.4 SCHRS = 1.050 converted to DPN = 73.4
Wave DPN = 92.1 SCHRS = 1.480 converted to DPN = 102.5

Any photos? Sorry I had to miss it.

Zander was photog again - I'm sure he'll have something posted soonish.

Jack, those are all great points, however:

2. I've sailed against you before on a Hobie 16 I believe and Reggie on the Hobie 17 on what felt like a much more level playing field.

3. Mark continued to stay on the line with you guys at the starts, while I opted to sit back and take a clear lane after being pinned at the committee boat in the first race because the 16 definitely did not have the same manueverability as a Wave.

I'm just trying to point out that if you leave out the DNF, the only time a Wave didn't finish 1,2,3 was in one race where it was 4th.

Derek,

I would be the first to agree that the Wave potential is underated. However, it is what it is and I do respect your abilities. You have proven yourself many times.

You will have to agree that this particular event was not a true test of boat speed.

It was however, a demonstration of what can be done with a POS/kid's boat when taken seriously.

We had hoped for more boats and a class of our own. We liked the event and Skip will spread the word within the Wave community. Our plan is to use this event as our fall championship next year.

Is there a Wave in your future Derek?

Ha, I sailed a Wave after the Duck Cup this year and it was so ugly I earned a new nickname. I take you all seriously and want to continue to compete against you, which is why I want the playing field to be level. The 16 class has been falling off in our region over the past few years and I'm always happy to have more boats to race against.

Well since Jake brought it up......

www.chriszanderphotography.com

Outback Cup 2010 gallery

Sorry for the shameless plug.

Now I see a connection. You must be related to Megan #2 who works for Jon.

Awesome job. I will try to pick a few and place an order. You actually made me look a lot younger.

The Wave guys did sail well and I don't want to take anything away from them.... but it is unusual that you were consistently 1,2,3 in just about every race... when the wind conditions were very inconsistent. In that really light stuff, you were favored just with the fact that no one was moving well and couldn't create any separation for the numbers to equalize the times...

I will say this about the numbers.. I sail a F18(62.4) and a H16(76)(13.6 difference) and there is less disparity between these two Portsmouth #s than the separation of H16 and Wave(92.1)(16 difference)... I've got to say there should be a bigger separation between the F18 and H16 than with the H16 and Wave.

Mark,

I agree that in those conditions we certainly had a rating advantage. We (Waves) were as surprised as you at the results. We didn't even know we were being scored with you guys until Saturday when they posted the standings.

I think with more and steady winds, the results would have been in more in your favor. As I pointed out above, we were so much more manueverable that we could tack on shifts and sail to pressure, while you guys were pretty much stuck on the tack you were on. How many times did I sail by you whilst you were stuck in irons?

I hate handicap racing, as do most of us, but I guess we are stuck with it when we don't bring numbers.

The interesting thing is that under SCHRS, the Wave rates even better!

Yeah I hate handicap racing also... that is why I sail the F18 and H16, which normally have a large enough turnout for our own class...... It sucks we can't keep everyone on the same boat. I raced the H20 for 12 years until everyone left that class.. bought the F18 and now that class is dwindling w/ folks going to the A-Cat... Unfortunately I don't have the money to keep chasing the next hot class.

You cant hide money...

I don't either. That is why I am on a Wave now. Really tough and competive racing if you can travel. The boat isn't nearly as bad as you might think and it is self healing.

I have been hit twice this year in a way that would have destroyed a glass boat, and you can hardly see a mark.

It wouldn't take much to get a competitive fleet going in the Carolinas. They already have some at Duck. There's Reggie and I am here once in awhile.

Mosely is looking. You could get two or three if you sold the Tiger and your daughter could sail one. You guys could tune together...father/daughter bonding? Of course she may kick your a$$.

Keep the 16 for when you want a crew boat.

What I like about the Wave is there is no one to remind you when you screw up at a third the price of a decent A-Cat.

Many two up boat sailors have the Wave as a second boat.., typically a husband-wife team buy two Waves and go at it. And both have done well, i.e., Sharon Woodruff, Kathryn Garlick, Betty Bliss, Mary Wells, et al.
Rick

Mark,

The Portsmouth ratings work on a RATIO of time between two boats. So if you divide the lower ratings you listed in your post by the higher ones in each comparison, you will see that one is 82.1% and the other is 82.5%. That means the F-18 has to sail the course in 82.1% of the time the Hobie 16 does and the Hobie 16 has to sail the course in 82.5% of the time the Hobie Wave does. So they are essentially the same handicap. Everyone prefers to race one design but since so few race anymore and so many different classes exist, Portsmouth is way better than not racing! The many years we used it in the Ohio Catamaran Racing Association (RIP) demonstrated conclusively that Portsmouth works remarkably well to evenly handicap boats and to encourage more people to come out and race. You only have to look at the dwindling attendance at most remaining regattas to know that we continue to lose that battle...

Mark

Mike's point about handicap racing is spot on.

The most important objective is to find a race structure that keeps the last guy racing... when he quits... you have a new last guy.

When your region chooses to run 2 and 4 boat one design fleets versus a single larger fleet scored on portsmouth (Plus one design) this simply means that you have LOTS of last place sailors that you have to work on to keep their interest up.
This is very tough to do especially when the OD class has lots of talent and the good guys are miles ahead of you.

When you have more sailors competing... odds are that you have a group of sailors with about the same skill level... even though they are in different classes. Likewise... the top sailors will be able to race each other and still find a competitive challenge.

On the chesapeake... we have killed off all of the deadboats that used to live in portsmouth and attempted to form three one design fleets plus the three long standing Hobie fleets 16, 17 and 18). Like you, the deadboat guys did not want to chase the new hot class with lots of money. Unlike you... they have just retired... Worse, The dream of a couple of the one design fleets up here is faltering. They managed a few years of 5 or more boats on the line for a few events... but this turnout did not get more dead boat society sailors to join the fleet and grow the one design class. Holding together a small OD fleet is proving impossible.

Seems to me that in a 20 boat regatta... If you get at least 1/2 the boats in One design class terrific... otherwise... split the fleet into high and low and overall and keep everyone involved racing on handicap.

I have switched from supporting Portsmouth to SCHRS simply because of the problems in the recent past and the difficulty in maintaing portsmouth going forward.

Thanks Mark.

Whether we like it or not, this is the reality of our plight. We have talked around the issue and thrown out all the red herrings.

The "dead boat" fleet is our cradle and our grave. Most beginers start with a cheap used boat and progress as best they can, hopefully elevating to a "hot boat". They either make it or don't there. Eventually, most of us reach a comfort zone that includes a platform that suits us. The dynamics of that platform can vary significantly, but the bottom line is that we like it.

For local and regional regattas and "Wednesday Night" races to prevail, we need a viable and sustainable handicap system...like it or not.

Whatever the system, the sailors have to accept it and the results. Under any system most dogs will have their day.

I really don't care what that system is...and I would rather race with my own kind.

In the meantime, it is vital that we all embrace and support one system and accept the indignety of getting our a$$ handed to us once in a while by some wanker on a POS.

oh, like my spouse needs any MORE weapons to "go at it". Now you're suggesting a virtually indestructible one? I'm going to need a bigger cup.

but you do have a point... Can you triple stack waves? Not sure how you'd lift them up without a crane, but then me & The barnacles would pretty much have ouur own fleet...

Double stack is easy. In fact, if you flip one over they nest well without any padding.

Triple stack is doable, but so is breaking one down and sliding the hulls in on top of the second boat on a double stack. The masts are two piece so they stow well too.

I have not done so, but I believe I can haul four. First of all, I have turned all my boat trailers into flat beds and they are all carpeted. They are 8'6" wide.

So first Wave goes upside down, second one nests inside, right side up.
Then using padded 2x4s place the 3rd boat upside down on top of the one that is right side up. Then nest the fourth.

Rick do you have a picture or two handy of your trailer? (More the better).
I bought a double PWC trailer that I am converting over and like the idea of the versatility your flatbed method provides...while there is probably 50 ways to do it, I would like to hear/see your approach since it sounds like it has served you well and there is no reason to reinvent the wheel. Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Bob

how many kids and out-of-shape adults does it take to put the boats on a trailer as you speak of Rick?

I use two 4x8x3/4" marine plywood, then paint it to seal it, and then bolt them to the trailer. To get the 8'6" legal width, you will have a small gap in the middle.
On one trailer the fender was higher than the frame, so I had to use 2x2 bolted to the frame to raise the height of the plywood over the fender.
If I remember clearly on one trailer I had to use u-bolts, which leave metal on top of the wood showing, but with good carpeting that is not a problem.
And getting carpeting should not be a problem either, as most carpet stores throw away old carpeting after installing new.
Load is pretty easy. Obviously the first one is laid on its side (cushioned) and roll it on to the trailer with the mast ball just ahead of the plywood deck.
Next put the second boat on Cat Trax and roll it behind the trailer. That puts about 1/3 of the boat over the trailer. Then lift the stern and slide it forward. Nice to have padding to slide on.
Third boat requires padded 2x4s on the stern and just aft of the mast ball on the boat that is right side up.
Have someone lift the trailer tongue (son Dave blocks the wheels, lifts the tongue and places a 2x4 under the tongue to hold it up.) I get someone to help. Then with the boat on Trax approach from rear. The bows will again be about 1/3 over the right side up boats. Just push and lift the stern to slide it on, and then lower the tongue. Oh, and be sure the bottom boats are tied before you raise the tongue, or you will have to start over.

I have never loaded four, but If I did, the 3rd boat would require some help to place it upside down on the second boat that is right side up. The fourth could be loaded as above.

On the trailer build thingy, there are a couple of threads on that from about a year ago.., I think in the Open and the Wave Forums.
Rick

Even better is to start with an aluminum snowmobile trailer! That way you get the independent suspension from the torsion bar axle, the wide tires, the deck, stiffer construction, and low maintenance.

Mike I don't think I have run across any snowmobile trailers on Craigs list here in Fl...lol