Outright speedsailing record broken!

The kitesurfers have taken back the record of l'Hydroptere by averaging 54,1kts over 500m!
I think it is mainly the weight of his balls which keep him on the water...

Damn!

That board is frickin' tiny!

That's a freakin' waterski!

Jeez.. next thing you know they'll break the record barefoot!

actually if someone uses a pair of barefoot shoes then wouldnt that be considered a cat?

So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?

There are people who jump out of airplanes with boogie-boards on their feet. If they pop their chute and touch down in water, would that qualify for the sailing record too?

Only the vertical speed record. But that will be beaten by someone using a tropical drink umbrella (once).

Its the same question that's been posed everytime someone breaks the record on an unconventional craft like windsurfers, hydrofoilers, and one-way planing tri-pod boats. I don't see how a kiteboard is any more unique than those craft. It's 100% wind powered, in contact with the water, and supported by hydrodynamic lift. Sounds like sailing to me.

sm

Not really sailing, if you put the sail in the right place you can slingshot yourself along the course like turning at the back of a ski boat. The longer you want to go in a straight line the longer your control wires. Great to see though I watched one wind down the course of the Cooper Creek while the kite came straight down, same guy parked it in a tree for about 3 hours as well

"So, a guy on a waterski, connected to a parachute, is considered SAILING?"
Yes...so what bothers you the most? A) The fact that he is going nearly twice as fast as a typical beach cat. 2)The fact that he is doing it for 10% of the cost of a new NACRA 20CF? C) The fact that all the gear it took to break the record would fit in the trunk of a sub compact car? D) All of the above.

I accept the validity of the record but one thing does bother me a little.

The boats achieve the records in MUCH lower windstrengths then the boards. Basically the boards are waiting for windspeeds that are themselves very close to the speed record itself. Theoretically, they can staps themselves to a large bedsheet in a Katrina type hurricane and have themselves dragged over the water whereas the boat actually break technological barriers by sailing at least twice as fast as the wind.

In the case of Hydropthere, they break the record on open water and not some man made or highly specialized speed trench.

That to me gives more weight to Hydroptheres record.

Afterall we are not counting the experimental rocketcar on rails as a valid entry into the automobiel speed record either.

It is a case of the brute force approach against the elegant approach. I will always favour the last.

Wouter

The argument could go both ways. Personally, I find something admirable about a craft that can actually go out and be sailed efficiently and under control in tropical storm force winds (I don't know of any craft that has broken the record in actual hurricane force wind). Windsurfers and kiteboards have an elegent simplicity that far exceedes the complexity and expense of l'hydroptere. If anything, I would consider l'hydroptere to be more of the "experimental rocketcar" than the windsurfer/kiteboard which can be easily purchased by any aspiring speed sailor.
sm

I'm not denying he achieved a speed record, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with kite-skiing; but it's stretching reality too far to call a waterski a boat, and a parachute a sail. Yes, he harnessed the power of the wind to propel himself at 54 knots, but call it what it is and establish that category's record. If you're talking sailing a boat at 50 knots, then l'Hydroptere found a way to do it; this guy did not.

Well somebody would just have to break it up into classes. Foiling, not foiling, multi hull, mono, and something for a mast vs sail supported by wires.

Regardless this dude still has the over speed sailing record on water.

Both are awesome in their own right. One takes big nerve....the other takes a big bank account. I am more impressed that a kite guy with enough guts can take a few grand and beat a record set by a multi million dollar engineering marvel.

"Yes...so what bothers you the most? A) The fact that he is going nearly twice as fast as a typical beach cat. 2)The fact that he is doing it for 10% of the cost of a new NACRA 20CF? C) The fact that all the gear it took to break the record would fit in the trunk of a sub compact car? D) All of the above."
Haha, brilliant, I think you`ve summed it up here. Except "almost twice as fast as a typical beachcat" should read "almost 3 times as fast" - most beachcats can do not too much past 18knots, maybe 21 for the Tornados & F18 etc. (By typical beachcat I understand H16).
I believe people who won`t acknowledge kitesurfers as sailors are of the same mindset as those who discarded windsurfing as a form of sailing when they first started taking the records. This happens every time someone`s perception of what a "boat" constitutes is challenged. Besides, WSSRC has ownership of the rules, and the kitesurfers have satisfied the WSSRC that they are water-borne craft powered by wind, so they are entitled to the record of the fastest wind-powered water-borne craft.
It would be easier for everyone to get along if we could just appreciate eachother`s disciplines, Hydroptere can be the fastest trimaran on hydrofoils, Sailrocket can be the fastest one-way monohull, Windsurfers can still have their own record, kites can be the fastest anything-that-floats, and Macquarie Innovation can claim to be the fastest "Thing with Wing" (How anyone can classify that as a sailboat is beyond me - see, we all have our prejudices !)

+1

I'm impressed with their nerve, skill level, and simplicity of kit. But I ain't doin' it!

The thing that bothers me about it is that they are sailing in a purposely designed trench for the record making it as far from what we would call "sailing" as possible.

While they are all powered by the wind (which is fine in my book), I do take issue with the conditions of the water on which the various records are being set. They're SO incredibly different I believe there should be three speed record categories; one for sailing in a drag trench, one for sailing in protected (flat water) shallow lee-shore like what Sail Rocket and Macquarie Innovation have been doing, and third for open water like what Hydroptere is capable of. Granted, you would have to put some definitions on these course types but these really are very different records sailed in these three different formats.

where do the ice boats and land yachts fit into the equation?Both are sailing as well.


I wonder how limited the speed of a kite is? like if you were to do it on ice?

+1

If a waterski qualifies as a boat, ice skates would have to, as well. They're in contact with water.

I really, really, really don't care about the records (or how they're set) since that in no way affects me.

BUT, this just proves that these kite guys are just plain certifiable (which doesn't bother me, either). Like the "sport" isn't dangerous enough in open water or near a beach, they actually do this in a 20-30 foot wide TRENCH!!!???

How do you spell Darwin?

Mike

You guys make it sound like Hydroptere is setting those record speeds mid-atlantic or something!
The conditions in which it sets the actual records are in no way "open water"!

When they set a record they do exactly the same as the kiteboarders and that is find a spot with ideal conditions.
Usually they choose a place with strong offshore winds inside some kind of harbour where there are no waves
and not too many obstacles that could interfere (preferable alongside a beach or something).
Yes in some of the videos you can see it cruising around the coast but that is not where they set the 50kt+ records,
the kiteboard could also happily cruise around in 2m seas and not have a problem.

For those who think it is less of an achievement should go out buy a board and kite and have a go yourself,
i've been up to around 30kts and cant even imagine what it is like to reach 54!

Exactly. And this is not something that is unique to speed sailing records. If you want to set the land speed record, you don't do it on an old dirt country road, you go to the salt flats. If you want to break the freestyle swimming speed record, you don't do it in the ocean, you do it in a pool. The list of examples is endless.

Finding ideal conditions is all part of the game. If l'Hydroptere could sail in two feet of dead flat water, I'm sure that's what they would do. That they require a large body of water to sail in is a limiting constraint on this craft. Just as some of the other record breakers were limited in that they would disintegrate if sailed in 1 foot or more of chop.

The fact that so many different craft have gotten near and over the 50knot hump is what really makes the battle for the record exciting. It would be totally boring if one style of craft continued to hold the record. The kites have it right now, but I could see any of the superfast craft taking it back - windsurfers, l'hydroptere, sail rocket, YPE...

sm

Please..... What a load of crap. They're in a trench, surrounded by nice soft sand. If they wad up at 65mph and get drug through the sand for a bit, its not that big a deal. I've done more than double that speed down the pavement on my butt.

Its hitting something solid you gotta worry about.

Are there any "normal" boats there? It would be interesting to see what our boats will actually do in ideal conditions.

Ban them all for 200 years or so then let them have the AC! After all, that's what happened to cats. Its only fair!
OTOH.. Shouldn't us cat sailors be the first to recognize and appreciate the potential when something new comes along?

Define ideal conditions! A two foot deep trench just wide enough for the odd cat with gusts at 45 knots doesn't qualify as ideal conditions for me... Heck, at 45 knots I have to tie the boat down for it not to fly away!

Actually, Karl, I was thinking about those times when they get launched several stories into the air. At that point, skidding is the least of their concerns. Those trenches don't look like very big targets to aim for, if they're looking for something "soft" to hit...

Mike

"Are there any "normal" boats there? It would be interesting to see what our boats will actually do in ideal conditions"

Yawn....Well, wasn't that anticlimactic...

Further, some have the 'sails' attached by a 'mast', whereas others merely control lines, where the 'sail' is a great distance from the sailing 'craft'.. That's the same category?

About kites being valid contenders: anything wind powered and in permanent contact with the water qualifies. A wing powered ekranoplane with a submersed board qualifies.

About Hydroptere: its merit is its ability to sail offshore with minimal changes. A lot of weight could be saved if it was dedicated only to the outright record.

About kites being less energy eficient: there should be a separate record for energy eficiency (boat speed/wind speed) because improvements in this area go beyond sailing, they are important for the future of our planet and species.

There's energy to be tapped everywhere, but we can only use a limited quantity due to heat resulting from ineficient use. If we don't learn how to use it more eficiently, the heat may actually burn the planet. Climate change and greenhouse effect are nothing in comparison.

In other words, energy efficiency is -or will soon be- the main limitation for human development. One day it will be one of the reasons to work outside the planet.

With regards to hydroptere and "open" water - OK sure, they pick a bay but it's still much more relative to what everyone relates to "sailing" than an engineered shallow water ditch.

Land speed records have all sorts of varieties. There is the anything goes unlimited jet propelled vehicles, the piston engine/wheel driven record, etc. I'm just saying we're not comparing apples to apples here - a kiteboard in a ditch shares almost nothing with Hydroptere going full out in a bay. Somewhere in the middle is Sailrocket and Macquire Innovation but they're all very different crafts.

It is interesting that they are all pushing a similar limit - but it looks to me like the kiteboarders (while definitely assuming a little more risk) are achieving this record speed with more kahuna than science. I guess it's all relative.

Funny....I bet the dude was having a great time!

55.65knots.
5 kiters now quicker then Hydroptere.
First woman over 50knots.

http://www.luderitz-speed.com/

Wasn't too long ago we were wondering when the 50 knot mark will be broken....... 60 knots?

Here is the video of the record run, amazing stuff!


TA: Hydroptere hit 60kts once, it literally fell apart after that (T-foil rudder lost grip!).

"With regards to hydroptere and "open" water - OK sure, they pick a bay but it's still much more relative to what everyone relates to "sailing" than an engineered shallow water ditch."

I think there`s a slight misconception about the speedstrip they are using - it`s a natural lagoon with a natural channel which they used for the last two years, it was only the fact that the WSSRC made up a new rule about min. water depth that they started dredging the strip to make it comply with that rule. Yes, they have modified the strip to create ideal conditions, and have put up barriers to further reduce chop. I windsurfed yesterday at my local lake, where there is a row of bouys to reduce chop for the waterskiers - we use that strip for speed runs, and I see no difference. If anyone were to set a speed record at that spot, it would be a valid record, as are the ones being set at Luderitz.
I do agree with many here that the kiters should have their own record, so all the slow craft (Hydroptere, Sailrocket and the windsurfers) still have something to aspire to.. And I don`t think too many people relate Hydroptere to a normal sailing craft, not too many recreational foiling trimarans on the market right now. In that respect, kiting is far more relatable to the general public.

New speed record certainly is impressive. I see it climbing steadly as some of the kite technology is refined and developed. As far as the specially designed conditions....well what speed records are not set in specially designed conditions. Look at the land speed record. the beast that holds that has gas turbine engines and set the record on the salt flats. There is probably less crossover between that and your daily driver than there there is between the speedsailing record and crafts that we laypeople are familiar with. Maybe the answer is to establish classes for speed records. Yeah, there'll still be an outright speed, but other records for more traditional crafts can be set also.

Has any one done the maths on kite sailing yet to determine its top possible speed, it woild be a fairly hard one to estimate but at some point the kite surfer will just be pulled out of the water by the upwards and sideways froce from the kite, larger finns may be needed but these will have a slowing effect as would adding some weight to hold the board in, perhaps a lead finn, I think the record in kites must be close to its boardable limits, hope they can go way faster, but i think we will see some larger foiling multis have a serious shot at it in the future