Cat Sailors - All Old Guys?

Since I posted those CRAW videos of Macca/Mischa, I can look at the statistics of who has viewed them.

So far, there have been over 3,000 combined views. Over 65% of the viewers are over the age of 45 with the biggest group being 45-54 (53%). Under 35 is less than 10%. Also, only 5% of the 3K are female.

Based on who I see at regattas, I think these numbers are representative.

I know there are efforts to bring in the younger sailors, but I think most of thse are targeted the under 25 year olds. Are there efforts out there to target and promote to the 25-45 group?

Seems there could be a dry spell waiting for the younger than 25 group to come along.

I guess, our hobby is too expensive - at least when you want to be competitive.

Young guys are at work. Girls had to go potty and fix their hair.

Are there spin boats out there that are less expensive targeted to that 25-45 group, I wonder?

Do you do more to promote H14/H16 sailing to develop a feeder pool? Those boats are certainly inexpensive and can hook you into cat sailing. It did for me.

The youngsters have people telling them what to do all day, the last thing that they are gonna do is trawl around the internet and look for more instruction!

The beauty of our sport is that you can drift in and out of it at any age and yet still find a type of sailing where you can be competitive

I think the biggest problem is, most of the 14-25yr. old --would be- sailors are too wrapped up in Facebook to spend any time (let alone money) outdoors doing...anything.

Not sure what you are saying - that there are a lot of 25-45 cat sailors out there that don't look for info on the internet? or that there aren't but when their budget allows, they drift into cat sailing?

BTW, I am one of those old guys who started sailing at 35 and started looking to the internet for information only when I outgrew my hobie cat.

Unfortunate, but true. My oldest is an internet addict, but I hold out hope for his younger sister who I took to a CRAW regatta last year. They have Bic's for the kids to sail and I think she is hooked. I am looking for a Sunfish or something like that for her to sail this summer.

We have plenty of sailors, the sport is about as big as it needs to be.

If we had a lot more people and boats, where would you put them? Racine is the only place I've been recently that could host a really large turn out.

Not talking about now necessarily. I am talking about the future of the sport, so that when my daughter wants to race cats, there is somebody to race against.

Please tell me your joking!

Can't help with that.

It seems like the Hobie 16 class is having a resurgance, and the Wave class is growing. I think that is due to the high cost for any new spinnaker boat, vs. a used Wave or H16. There seems to be more used H16's around, for a lot less money, than used spinnaker cats.

The cost of entry is always an issue, even more so now, in "The greatest economic downturn since the great depression..." But then you've got to find kids who are motivated enough to get outdoors and learn to sail.

With today's Internet Generation (and I've got 4 of them) they want everything, right now, and are not too willing to spend any time (or money) "Learning" to do anything other than how to text.

Don't forget video games.

Our club makes those Bics available and promote family involvement, etc. Maybe you buy a bunch of old H14's and quadruple stack them and bring them to each club race.

So once you give it up or croak, to h*ll with Cat sailing?

I gave up baseball 35 years ago, but I still am a big fan of the sport and support it at all levels. I even go to Cubs games. Now that's dedication.

As Mark S. has pointed out many times traditional yacht clubs are the key here. They have the infrastructure to support youth programs and this is where the kids will get exposed to multihulls and in my opinion this is were the bulk of interest in cats will come from.

I agree they have the infrastructure, but do they indeed get exposed to multihulls here? Or is it pretty much moving up the line from monohull to the next larger/faster monohull?

Not disagreeing, just don't know what the exposure is.

The 40s are are the new 30s, etc!!!!!

We were discussing our recruiting strategies earlier this week and one proposal was to shoot for the above 20 something crowd that typically crew on monohulls. Annapolis has a lot of them and most cannot afford the big boat, let alone to race one. They appriciate speed, also.

Trying to maximize on the AC hype that is being generated.

Yacht clubs have had junior programs for at least 50 years ...sailing monohulls... These programs are run by adults for kids over summers during the work week.... July to August.

Hobie Cat has been one of the largest one design classes in the world for 40 years... For many years they have sponsored the only junior cat sailing program in the USA by hosting a few regattas or NA's on weekends. Primarily... the Hobie way of life is family oriented with parents sailing with their kids and this is our defacto junior program.

So... which program has generated more sailors?

I am shocked/surprised at how few current mulithull sailors came from the "sailed with my dad? training program. Something was missing!

We need to change our strategy. A cats, F18's are simply not the platform to get juniors out racing. The Hobie 16 is the boat for the USA right now.... maybe you can step up to an F16 down the road... but there are more issues around F16's then Hobie 16's for this purpose.

While it would be fantastic for Yacht Club junior programs to add a mulithull high performance program to their offerings... I suspect hell freezing over has a better shot.

So we do what we can... in the mid Atlantic region Hobie Div 11 has a very strong and active H16 fleet AND A NUMBER OF JUNIOR SAILORS. Our view is that we try to get these juniors who usually race against the adults to be more like the Yacht club world and participate in a Junior regatta strictly against other juniors. We are trying to leverage our very small window of opportunity (kids get older...procreation is slow... not to mention expensive) by trying to put together a junior regatta with the Hobie 16 junior racers joined by some juniors from Yacht clubs. The goal is to achieve a critical mass of juniors for a good regatta and generate interest among the junior racers from yacht clubs for high performance mulithull racing.

With the America's Cup action on high performance cats ready to take off in San Fransisco... I believe it's now or never!

Thanks to the Div 11 sailors who work to make loaner boats available... we have the opportunity. Last year we held a Junior Olympics at Rock Hall.... This year we are hoping to participate in the Barnegat Bay JO's... Our intention is to invite some Yacht Club Juniors from Long Island Sound and the Chesapeake Bay region to take the opportunity and go Hobie 16 racing. I should emphasize... This kind of thing is ONLY POSSIBLE because the Div 11 16 sailors have been very generous with loaning their boats and time.

Every region should look for an opportunity in their neck of the woods and step up to the plate.

The alternative will be to wait for more guys like TEH who stumble onto cats, get hooked and learn to sailboat race.
I think if you surveyed the big boat crews... you would be stunned at how few of these sailors have any experience in a dinghy beyond a 420... years and years ago. Still these are sailors who go racing... getting them onto a beach cat is much much easier then trying to get a newbie or a recreational sailor to go racing!

I have this question. I've day sailed for years, but certainly don't know the ins and outs of course racing. I'm thinking of doing the upcoming Macho. Who is willing to help new people or where do you go for help.
Thanks
Forrest

Check your PM's

I think it is hard to overstate the importance of individuals inviting people on their boat to expanding the sport. I can't think of many people that got into sailing, let alone cat sailing, without being invited to sail with someone else. This should include both friends and family. Cats are enough fun that just bringing someone out on a recreational sail will frequently hook them. I used to have my old roommate crew on my F18. Now he owns his own H16 and wants to buy my F18 to race. Some German tourists that I met on the beach and took out sailing have now switched from a 470 to an F18.

One of the down sides to relying on a yacht club to bring in youth sailors is that most of them will be children of members. Unless yacht club members are having 3+ children that all end up sailing as adults, this is not a way to grow the sport.

However, yacht clubs do provide the social aspect that is important to growing sailing. A lot of Hobie fleets do a great job at having a lot of fun at regattas too. Friends and family are more likely than strangers to feel part of a social group than random strangers showing up at a yacht club to learn to sail.

On the question of families sailing... I got into sailing by crewing for my dad on a H16 for two seasons. Then, I wanted to be the skipper. So, we got an old H16 and me and two of my other 9 year old friends (that also used to crew for their parents) went out racing against the adults. A couple years later, we split into two teams and were in the middle of B fleet. By high school we were in the middle of A fleet. There are now two boats sailed by third generation H16 sailors with the parents still racing and the grandparents still involved with it. So, it does work.

I've had luck with inviting people to sail as well. A friend of mine was a comitted monohull guy. He came with me when I picked up my boat. We sailed a little and the speed hooked him right away. He bought a boat and is now a cat sailor. He's an older guy who had the $$, but he's joined the ranks and is trying to promote racing in northern CA.

That's exactly what I do, of the dozen or so I've resurrected in the last five years only four have been sold to folks under 30.
I've succumbed to the realization that's a pretty good percentage.
The percentage (below age 30) of people who have contacted me to help them "put their boat together, set it up, show them a few pointers" are about 25%.
I've set through a many boat/sport shows and bent the ear of many a young lad and lassie, but more often than not the ones that call back are nearer my age (53).
I wish they were all young, but if someone asks, I'm helping out, no matter what their age.

I was sailing with a 70 year-young cat builder last weekend. We were the only 2 out sailing (it was about 62*, which is very cold for floridians). He thinks the new AC will attract a new blood / generation into the sport. I think he could be right if there is enough coverage for people to see how amazing of a sport/thrill it is.

BUT.... there are so many obstacles to entry into this sport and it's not getting easier. We are losing public launch areas, at least $1000 to get your feet wet (give or take) on a 20 year old hobie or similar, no media coverage, other exotic sports that are cheaper to get into, etc.

Our community sailing center could care less about cats. They have a few waves for members, but thats as far as they go.

.... and how deep in dept to you think alot of these young kids are when they finish tech school/college w/ all the "loans" needed to pay for and complete their education ... then at what percentage of their wages, and for how long does it take to pay these depts off???? Leaving how much "disposable" income????

"Toys" are expensive .... even 20yr old ones ....

Harry

You have to go where the people are. Gulfport has course racing. You can come down to Dunedin Causeway and hang with us,

I would concur that one of the biggest constraints on an individual in the 25-45 age range is TIME followed by budget.

I listed time first, because we don't all have to be boat owners. Acting as crew can be cheap, but all of this takes time, which younger folk with loans to pay, kids to raise, etc. pretty much monopolizes any semblance of free time for hobbies which don't include the whole family.

OK so I'm speaking as a 32 year old sailor, who was raised by a family that sailed. I can remember cruising with my grand father at a very young age on the Chesapeake. I sailed solo for the first time on a lake in Michigan on the family's Sunfish when I was 8. I've been sailing keelboats my whole life and I make a living in the sailing industry. Here are some thoughts I've had concerning driving people into sailing, whether cats or monohulls, hell even boards and kites...

1) You have to really WANT to sail (or race) to do it. Its a complex sport that takes a certain level of knowledge and skill to participate. It also takes a certain kind of attitude to push yourself to get better. If you aren't "into" it you won't be into it for long. This I think is the issue with younger folks that has been noted above, that young people these days have short attention with little follow through or commitment to what they are doing, or learning to do.

2) Cost I don't think is as much of an issue as everyone makes out. Hell, people spend $6k on a mountain bike to go to Whistler. People spend $20k on a motorcycle to race at the track. If you WANT to sail you can get into sailing and even racing for a reasonable cost. I started racing on my dads keelboat that cost him $2k. I liked it so I started sailing with other keelboats. If you want to sail it does not have to be more expensive than other sports.

3) Agree time is a huge factor, and probably the biggest detriment to people getting out sailing. IF you CHOOSE to have kids, you are dedicating A HUGE AMOUNT OF TIME to raising your children. Don't expect to be able to continue doing everything you did before. People that are <30 and have kids have given up a lot, in terms of time and $. My wife and I don't have kids, and find it pretty easy to afford $ and time to sail. If we had kids, we wouldn't, simple.

4) It is an interesting attitude cat sailors have towards Yacht Clubs. "They don't want us around" is the attitude I generally perceive. But, if you just ask to be around, the YC will gladly welcome cats. I did this for a regatta in April at our local YC, that has never hosted cats, and they are super excited about it. If you ask, you can participate, but don't expect the YC to ask you to participate, its up to you.

I guess my general feeling is that I almost agree with whoever said sailing is about as big as it needs to be. Our culture in the states doesn't lend itself to sailing very well, with the complexity of the sport, and the ever increasing simplicity of the US mind. I also agree that getting people out sailing is the best thing we can do for the sport. When we had our keelboat, we'd take people out all the time. Of course, the % of those people who followed through and began sailing on a regular basis is like 10%. Thats just the fact, not everyone is going to do it. Its a hard sport. So lets just keep pushing how great it is and hopefully more people will start doing it.

I also think the AC has done something for making the sport exciting for more people. Hopefully we will see this in the next few years.

And yes, most of you cat sailors are old farts!

Very true about not having enough time (or money) once the kids show up. You notice most of our younger (20's-40's)racers don't have any kids. And the older ones kids are grown up and gone.

My buddies in my NH Air National Guard unit had a "Name the Babies" constest when it was discovered my wife would be having twins.

There were lots of very funny names up on the chalk board in the briefing room; Jose and Hose B, Thing 1 and Thing 2, Frick and Frack, etc. but when the vote came down, the overwhelming winners were,


"No Boat and No Motorcycle"

I had just sold both my J24 and BMW R100S to get money for the downpayment for our first house. It was 6 years before I got back out on a sailboat, a borrowed JY 15 at a club. Then I started the twins in Opti's, then moved them up to JY15's, etc. But the Club we were at had a great kids program with Opti's and 3 loaner JY's.

Without that club and their loaner boats, well, I doubt I'd have ever gotten back into sailing. I only got into cats because a neighbor took me out double trapping on his Hobie 20. I thought my 505 was fast, until that day! As a mono only guy, I never thought cats could do anything but reach fast and then flip over.

When Dennis Connor used that 60' cat to stomp Fey in the 1988 (?) America's Cup, then I started thinking -maybe- cats might be something to look into.

I still have not replaced the motorcycle, probably never will. Racing the Blade Uni, downwind, in a good blow fills my sporadic need for an adreneline rush, and I don't have to wear a helmet...yet.

Well here is what I've learned since starting this thread:

1. Cat sailors really are mostly old guys
2. Some people think the sport is good for now and will pretty much be OK regardless of whether there is effort put into bringing in younger sailors plus it may get a boost from the AC hype.
3. Others feel that three is a a threat as our kids gravitate more towards the internet/electonics, etc. Plus the boats are too expensive and there's not enough time.
4. Some people are proactive and encourage cat sailing on older, cheaper cats, having younger kids crew, taking people sailing and approaching their local yacht club to gain exposure.

I think I'm with the #4 proactive crowd.

Here's the "Problem" with cats and yacht clubs. Cats do take up more storage space, pure and simple. I was at a Laser club in Sydney a couple weeks ago, they had about 60 Lasers all stored on racks, floor to ceiling, inside a barn. They had a very small beach to launch from, but they got 50 Lasers out racing and told me that was pretty typical for a Saturday club race.

As I looked around the club grounds, tightly packed in between some other businesses and across the street from a public park, I didn't see ANYPLACE where a -single- cat could have been stored, mast up, let alone several cats.

Even if someone had shown up with a cat on a trailer, he would have taken up the grassy space of 3 Lasers, just putting the thing together.

So there is no doubt that the extra space a Catamaran needs for storage (especially mast up) has something to do with any Yacht Club's acceptance of them.

You can't stack 60 cats inside a small club shed, or rig 60 cats up in a small yard, or launch them all off a small, narrow beach.

Here's something else to consider when it comes to getting more young sailors out on cats. Name one sailing club in America where any kid off the street, or adult for that matter, can walk in and take a cat out for a day.

One thing those two dinghy clubs I mentioned above have in common, they both have loaner boats for any newbie to jump into and get out on the water, pronto, and they have instructors and chase boats available on a Saturday.

The Gulfport club is the only "Catamaran" club I've seen that has the space for storage of very many cats, but I'm not sure if they have -any- loaner boats for newbies, or even a kids "Learn to Sail Cats" type program.

If you had a club with the space and funding to buy a fleet of Hobie Waves, and maybe some 16's for older kids and adults, you could have the same type programs those dinghy clubs have, and you'd get more people out on cats.

Space is not the reason why you don't see multi's at a lot of yacht clubs. It's the fact that the vast majority of beachcat sailors won't join a yacht club. There is no reason the Hobie Wave could not have the same numbers as the Laser at a yacht club.

In FL there are quite a few yacht clubs that are extremely cat friendly:

In Florida alone:

Miami Yacht Club
The Rudder Club
Gulfport Yacht Club
Fort Walton Yacht Club
Davis Island Yacht Club (Hosting the 2011 Area D South Semi Finals)
New to the list Charlotte Harbor Yacht Club.
I also suspect there is a cat friendly club in Pamama City, we get to go there in October.


A yacht club or any other organization for that matter will only go in the direction of its leadership. You want your local yacht club to support beachcats 1 - join, 2 - get involved. If you're willing to do the work 99% of the time there will be nobody standing in your way. Granted it can be giant pain in the a$$ and you'll have plenty of people pissing in your ear telling you how you're doing it wrong but in the end you will get results and it will be worth while.

The mobility of the sport doesn't help the loaner situation.

CRAW regularly brings a trailer with Bic's for the kids to sail because you can haul them around. That's all it took for my daughter.

Also, once kids can handle the kite, the dads have them crew. One member went as far as to buy a F16 so that his 12 year old could crew, rather than waiting till he was big enough to handle a F18 kite. Later they have them at helm.

I would guess we now have 6-8 members in the sub 30 age bracket. 2-3 race one of their dad's boats and another bought a old F18. The rest crew.

A couple of responses ....

To "SloanSailing": Yes, we are .... but we are FAST ol'farts!!!!!

To TEH: I'm in that 4th grouping also .... I finally joined a offical Yacht Club 5yrs ago after +25yrs of being a Catamaran "Gypsy" and a member of the "Backyard" Yacht Club scene .... I now try to leave one of my catamarans (of two I own) down at the club w/ the stick up, right next to the sailing school so all the Junior Sailors have to pass by when they walk up to the clubhouse. I offer rides/lessons to all-comers, young and old ... I even let some of the Juniors take my TheMightyHobie18 for a sail ...we host in June a +75 boat Regatta w/ seperate A-Cat class, F-16 class and Open Catamaran classes on a Catamaran course ... and in September we host a Hobie Div11 Points Regatta.

And last year, we hosted the CBYRA Junior Olympic Festival ... including for the first time in US Sailing history a Junior Multihull (on H16's) and Windsurfer Classes !!!!

Anything I've asked of the club they have agreed to and done ...

If you are in the area ... come on by, it's alittle off the "beaten" track" ... but check out our "little piece of heaven" ... you are looking for Rock Hall Yacht Club, Rock Hall Md located on Maryland's beautiful Eastern Shore. We race/sail on the Chester River, just south of Langford Creek at a wide spot called "Hell's Delight" (according to my ADC Chart book)...

... and PLEASE join your local yacht club!!!!
:

Harry
H18Mag/P19MX

Oh Timbo:

RHYC ownes +19 acres of ground ... of which approximently 9 acres is open grass/field (that I help mow), the rest is preserved pine forest .... of that 9 acres the clubhouse/pool/bathhouse/gazebo/parking lot maybe takes up 1-2 acres .... leaving alot of room for "boat set-up" .... oh, and there is a nice 75-100' wide beach w/ a shallow gradiant leading to a nice flat sandy bottom that varies (due to tides) from calf deep to waist deep ....

Harry

It's rigging and money.

Problem with ol' farts introducing new folks to cat sailing it is that ol' farts like things complicated and expensive.

[quote] "Toys" are expensive .... even 20yr old ones ..../quote]

Now that's an excuse I had not thought of. If you are still dating 20 year olds it's your own damn fault for finding that action too expensive. "High maintenance" is the catch phrase for that kind of 20 year old. "CPF" was the term we used to use...cost per ####.

Old guys know that sailing is cheaper than dating. A twenty year old? Are you out of your mind?

And exactly how many loaner cats does your club hand out to newbies? And how many cats are in your kid's sailng program? And do you go out and run the rescue boat on Saturdays for the kids?

Wonder why there are so few kids in Cats? That's why.

See the thread up above, "What have you done for sailing today."

Uh, obviously your many years haven't helped your spelling at all!

And god I KNOW how fast you old farts are. Put me in any keelboat and I can make it go pretty good in a couple of days on the water. These "multi" hull things are a different beast! And when you are slow you are REALLY slow, like, a leg behind! Its embarrassing... But, I have faith that I will improve, and some day, some day, be able to beat at least one of you retirees.

Timbo ... Timbo ... Timbo

Oh what am I going to do w/ you???? I'll answer your questions .... as best I can ...

First we have (1) H16 donated to RHYCSS several years ago, and we have (4) private catamaran owners/club members that also will teach you how to sail a catamaran and if you are compitent will loan you their boat.

Yes, I and other club members keep an eye out on the Junior sailors (no matter what kind of boat) and have immediate access to the RHYCSS "Whalers" to render assistence if needed ...

As for "What have you done for Sailing today" thread .... check out pages 10, 11 and 13 .... look for Caleb's and my posts .... you may find them interesting and relivent ...

And ... I am currently awaiting a reply from Seaside Park Yacht Club about being able to use their facility as a launch point so that a Junior Multihull Class can be included in the Barneget Bay Yacht Racing Assoc's Junior Olympic Festival in July 2011'. Mr Buzz Reynolds/Event Chairperson has agreed to allow a Junior Multihull Class (on H16's) to compete but Island Hieghts Yacht Club is "max'ed out" w/ +300 boats launching from that facility ... so we are trying to get permision to use a neighboring Yacht Club's facility to operate from their property ... and the prognosis looks very promising at this time .... the 2011' Commodore of Seaside Park YC is in favor of this and is currently trying to get us permission from her "Board of Directors" ....

So I'm trying ... as is the members of Hobie Div11 ... and the HCA-NA ... and many others up here ....

(I hope to be able to "Offically" make an announcement about the JO's soon .....)

Harry
Member: Rock Hall Yacht Club
H18Mag/P19MX

PS to Sloansailing: I ain't retired by a long shot, I have many years to go yet.... but I do have alot of GREY hairs ....

So Harry, in your humble opinion, and trying to get this tread back on track, why is it so many catamaran sailors are "Old"?

Because us old farts are willing to spend as long getting the boat rigged and fettled as we do sailing, the young uns just want to do things " right now " and rigging and fettling just doesn't equate.

when you cant physically move as fast as you used to, you want to sail something fast?
Cats are (physically) easier to sail than dinghies?
trying to relive our childhood?

sailorsloan, I agree with all four of your points, especially
point 2) money is not the issue
and
point 4) the myth that yacht clubs are not cat friendly

I'm fairly disillusioned with "active" recruitment techniques.

Our club used to have demo days, when we'd all take our cats down to the marina and offer people free rides. We'd actually get a pretty good turnout (maybe 20 or 30 people). Take them for a spin around the lake and collect email addresses, send out invitations to come sailing with us again and keep them updated on club activities. But we never saw any of those people again.

We'd also go to the local boat show and set up one of the boats in the convention center. We'd pass out flyers offering free sailing lessons, collect email addresses, etc. But we'd never see any of those people again.

The people we have recruited just show up out of the blue at an event with an old POS boat. You chat them up, help them rig, give them a few parts from your spare parts bin, share your beer, dinner and campsite, and before you know it they've bought a new(er) boat and are the keenest members of the club.

I've given this topic a lot of thought over the years and something struck me recently about the participatory decline and age increase. It seems to me that sailing in general and multihulls in particular don't get much exposure, and there are preconceived notions about sailing (expense, stodginess)that we need to overcome. Sure you can take people sailing and it will stick with someone from time to time, but not all that often. We need to make a quantum leap in generating interest. We need to find people that are likely to jump into the sport. In order to do that we need more widespread publicity.

I was in a local watering hole enjoying a refreshing beverage the other day when I realized that all the TVs there were tuned to ESPN, Versus, Fuel or Speed. Versus and Fuel were all about 'extreme' sports - Snowboarding, skateboarding, skiing, etc. This is the type of exposure we need. It's not something the average person could accomplish, but if they set their mind to it, it is probably something US Sailing could accomplish by working with those networks. A professional production of the Tornado Worlds, F18 championships or a regatta along those lines (on a windy day of course) would make a whole lot of young (and older) people sit up, take notice, and want to give it a try. I don't know if US Sailing would have any interest in doing that. I'd guess not but you never know.
Maybe even ESPN with their wider audience is a possibility. They have sailing from time to time, but the last thing I saw there was the Newport - Bermuda race, and the wind barely blew. Before that it was college match racing on a low wind day. As much as I like sailing I could barely stay awake for it.
It's unfortunate that when we do get some national exposure it is usually about a type of sailing that the average person can't participate in (college, offshore) and / or exceedingly dull. If we could showcase exciting and approachable sailing, make it look 'cool' vs. stodgy, interest and participation in our sport would grow.

Even though it's down the road a few years the AC in San Francisco should fit the bill for action TV.

Sailing is hardly a spectator sport. I'm more enthralled watching paint dry.

Funny you should use that analogy. I am literally sitting here watching a coat of perfection dry. You're right, it's not very exciting.
Some sailing has spectator (or at least viewer) appeal, some doesn't. If there was a catamaran channel that showed nothing but Extreme 40s, Tornadoes, AC45(s), etc, I'd probably never leave the house. Well, not in winter.

AC34 will raise awareness, but I don't think the uninitiated will come away with the knowledge that they could do something very similar but on a smaller scale, without a lot of effort.

Watching epoxy dry is slightly more interesting.

I had considered a slightly different approach i.e. trying to interest 7-11 or other chain store to use cats in an advertising campaign. But, I couldn't even sell the idea to other cat sailors.

There just isn't any real concensus. We aren't a group, just a disparate collection of folks with a common interest. Beyond the water's edge we go our separate ways.

"We have met the enemy and he is us"- Pogo

I just intercepted this on SA:

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=118994&st=0&gopid=3171742&

Correct... but ... as many have reported.... Taking people for a sail is almost a waste of time.... very few convert to sailing at any level. The goal of the AC or the TV exposure is to inspire.... You generate the idea... hey... I want some of that!
THEN you need machinery to deliver a good experience to the newbie.

I got sucked into bringing my Dart along with a friend and his Dart to a Washington Ski Club Beach House weekend.... After several hours of taking people for rides... I quit. The mindset was... Oh... I wanted to experience catamaran sailing... When you asked the next day if they wanted to go sailing again... No... it was fun but I did that already! I was part of the entertainment service!

The machinery that we need are Sailing schools that can deliver on the sailing experience. The newbie invests time and money to get... "some of that". For kids on cats... see my post above.

especially indoors with the windows closed

Exactly.

I had a recent experience that may offer insight to one of the problems.
I have been helping with the juniors by assisting with boat rigging and launching. Recently, I have wanted to work on my own sailing and after the juniors had launched I would rig my cat. I try and take one of the advanced juniors for a sail on my cat each week and if the wind is OK I will teach them to trapeze. This has worked well and they really enjoy cat sailing.
Back on land I was chatting to one of the dads who said that his kid loved sailing the cat but would not buy one as he knew nothing about them. i.e. the dad had sailed a mono when he was a child and was happy to buy a mono. Thankfully, I expect to see this father / son combination a few more times this summer and will spend more of my time making the dad more comfortable with cats because I know the son is already hooked.

Hey PGP,

... you could say that ... "this is like herding cats" ...

Yuk ... Yuk ... Yuk ...

That was too easy ...

Harry

Peter,

It sounds like you and I are using the same gameplan/playbook ......

Harry

We have a couple of very catamaran friendly clubs in South Carolina (Keowee and Columbia) and while many of us are members at one or the other, we're not there all that much.

Catamaran sailors, in General, are very a very nomadic and road-happy group. Comparing our activities to other non-catsailors at our clubs shows that they and their boats generally leave the club compound once or twice a year for a regatta elsewhere. Our catsailing group is considerably more active than the typical club goer but it's usually at a fist full of regattas around our region.

Jake,

You make a good point about Yacht clubs, Travel Fleets and their relationship. My observation is that the cat and dinghy travel fleets have been able to maintain a viable racing calender compared with fleets that exist exclusively at one club.

The 505 dinghy fleet has a similar culture to most Catamaran fleets. They have a regional regatta schedule just like cats and get their 10 to 20 boats out to these events. In our area, about 8 teams belong to two Yacht clubs with mast up storage about 10 miles apart. Each Club hosts two regattas per year and draw the 505's sailors from Va and NJ. The Albacore fleet also belong to two clubs with mast up storage and they also travel to 4 other Yacht clubs who have No Albacores to race against. They tell me that it's important to their small class to get out of town... race at different venues and socialize at different restaurants after racing. They believe it's a key factor in the health of their class

Meanwhile... the local Snipe, Jet and Flying Scott fleets gave up on travel and focused on supporting their club activities... They are now zombie classes trying to hang on at their home clubs... It's the ol familiarity breeds contempt deal and few opportunities to recruit new members to the class.

My take home is that cat sailors should follow the lead of these old school and still successful dinghy classes... Maintain a presence at your home yacht club... but don't fall into the easy trap of centralizing all of your activities there....

Variety is the spice of life .... RULES!!!

So Mark, when are you coming down to FL to race in the winter?

It was nice yesterday, I had my 18yr. old son and one of his buds out on the Prindle 18 while I sailed circles around them (quite litteraly!) on the Blade.

They complained about my boat being faster than theirs, we swapped boats, and within about 10 minutes they had -nearly- flipped the Blade...3 times, but managed to save it every time. It was funny to watch.

It was nice yesterday, but today's better, more wind and warmer too. Come on down boys, the water's starting to warm up. We're sailing in shorts and T-shirts now.

Sebring, FL (33870) WeatherSave This Location Updated: Feb 21, 2011, 10:05am Your Address
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Through 4pm: Mostly sunny with temperatures rising towards the low 80s. Winds SSW at 10 to 15 mph. Cloudy early, becoming mostly sunny this afternoon. Warm. High 84F. Winds SSW at 10 to 15 mph.

Ah.... the meaning of the world REGIONAL.... does not involve 14 to 18 hour drives...

Anwyay... Been there done that.... had a grand time....

But ,,, ITS SNOWING today.... Sigh... so you picked a good day to poke!

Tim:

I was going up to Punta Gorda on wednesday to sail sunfish. But if you meet me there and I'll race you to Cayo Costa.

I've only got today, tomorrow I've got a 6 day trip to Sydney, through Los Angeles on both ends. But it's blowing today so I'm going out again, try to school the boys on spinnaker work. Wish me luck.

And Andi, don't worry, it'll be the "old" spinnaker, not the Swiss Flag!

so why don't we join yacht clubs? I know very little about them, aside from the one or two that my parents are members of. There is an annual fee and a monthly minimum, both of which are out of my price range. I suspect if you have a boat big enough, these memberships are a pittance.

Do clubs offer "small" memberships for sportboats/dingys/cats?

Jay,

You need to find the Yacht club that "fits" your needs .... and pocketbook. Yacht Clubs come in all types of styles and costs. There are the really really $$$$ ones .... and then there are the small "local" community yacht clubs ... and all types in between.

I looked around in my sailing travels and found one that was small, friendly, has a sailing school, showers/pool, a resturant/bar .... and a large field w/ a nice sandy protected launching beach that is located on a nice stretch of water to sail on. (And close enough to be able to use ...) And asked if I could join .... and surprisingly the let me.

Just search around ... ask questions ... some of the sailors from small boat/dingy classes that travel can suggest some w/ the facilities you need and then you just go and check them out ... I found YC members are always "proud" of their clubs and will take the time to "show you around" ...

Harry

Agree 100%. One of the reasons we got our cat was to travel to different places to sail.

I'm a lazy butt, always have been. And I hate getting up really early (6am or earlier) and -driving- 2 hours on my days off, never mind all the beer I could have bought with the gas money.

I'd join a sailing club (Dinghy or cat, or both) in a NY minute if there was one close to where I live. "Close" being a 30 minute drive, or less.

There are several great dinghy and cat clubs down here in FL, but they are all at least 90 minutes to 2 hours drive, one way, from where I live. Then add the 2 hours to set up a spinnaker cat on a trailer, and another 2 to take it apart and load it back on the trailer, and a possible DUI on the drive home...well...that's why I bought a place on a lake.

I leave my boat set up, ready to go, in 10 minutes I can go from my kitchen table to sailing. Problem is, I'm the only one out on the lake! There are lots of bass boats, pontoon boats and jet ski's, but no other sailboats, makes it hard to "Practice" starts...

When I lived up north, I was a club member for many years t a couple different clubs over the years. I kept my boat(s) at the club, ready to go. They had racing every single weekend, big boats on Saturday (J-24's on up to 45'), dinghys on Sunday (Laser). Then there was the Beer Can racing, Lasers on Weds. nights, keel boats on Thursday nights. I loved it and made as much of that as I could.

Of course I was single then...with no kids.

But the season was pretty short up there and the water was cold, even in August! Most clubs up there are only open from Memorial day to Labor day, that's why they race -every- weekend in those few short months.

If I lived closer to Gulfport or Lake Eustis, or Sarasota or Miami, I'd be a member at one of those clubs and keep my boat(s) there, ready to go, and I'd show up as much as my days off (and wife, and kids) would allow.

But getting back on topic, why are we sailors so old, or put another way, why are there not too many younger sailors?

OK, if you are over 50 today, think back to when you were age 10-15. What was there to do inside your house for fun? How many TV channels were there to watch, 3? And what was on? How about video games? How about laptops and You Tube?

None of that stuff the kids today spend their time on even existed back when we were kids. My Mom used to throw my older brother and I out the back door in the morning and tell us not to come back until it got dark. We had to go out and find something to do, all by ourselves, with no adult supervision. We rode our bikes, we climbed trees and built forts in the woods. We both joined the Boy Scouts and spent lots of time hiking and camping in the White Mountains, summer and winter. And when were weren't on a Boy Scout trip, we camped out in the woods behind our house.

When we got into High School, my older brother got into building drag race cars and tweaking my moto-cross bike (Suzuki RM 125). I got into all the team sports, football, hockey, track. We never spent -any- of our free time inside the house, winter or summer. Not because we didn't like our mom, but because there was NOTHING to DO -inside- the house!

Today kids have 200+ channels to watch on TV, 24 hours of non-stop comedy and the cartoon channel, and free movies, and MTV, and HBO, and cellphones to text their friends, and XBox 360, and Wii, and Facebook, and You Tube, and iPods and iPads. Why would they -want- to leave the comfort of their airconditioned lair, to go outside and...Heaven Forbid...get dirty and bitten by mosquito's?

Oh, and thanks to CNN and FOX scaring the crap out of us 24-7, they also have over protective Mothers who would never let them out to play, alone, certainly not in the woods, what with all the sexual predators lurking behind every bush! What we thought was -normal- child rearing back in the 60's would be considered Child Abuse today!

It's a different world they are growing up in, they would much rather stay indoors and play "Virtual" games, where as we only know how to play Real games, outside, no hemets!

Holy Jeebus you guys make this complicated....

15-20 Can't afford it.
20-25 Might be able to afford it, but a dollar spent on anything other than chasing tail or drinking is money poorly spent.
25-30 Probably could afford it, but since some hag forced him to marry her, pile on a mortgage, breed, and ruin his life, its just not in the cards right now.
30-35 Reference 25-30
35-40 He's learned to deal with the cloven hoofed devil, the kids are off busy sticky forks into light sockets, he's got some time.
40-45 Satan incarnate isn't an issue anymore, kids are only an issue every other weekend
45-50 Kids are adults, and don't really give a crap about their first daddy. Plenty of time on his hands.
50-55 If he ain't into it yet, chances are he won't be.



etcetera.


This is still a pretty cheap sport, even if you take it semi-seriously, its still cheap. But, you're still going to drop $20k on a boat and trailer, and you still gotta get it somewhere to race. By the end of the season I'm glad it is over with. I'm flat out tired of driving everywhere in the midwest, and setting up and tearing down.

I'm just wondering what the future holds for cat racing, when us 50's + die off and there are no kids coming up who are interested in doing -anything- other than texting or posting videos to You Tube and Facebook.

I did get my 18yr. old Texting/You Tube addicted son out today on my Blade for 2 hours of speed blasting around the lake. It was both warm and windy, something we don't get both of, on the same day, in Feb. very often.

After a few laps with him up front, I let him drive. Within 30 seconds (the first big puff) we were swimming. Then I showed him how to right it and he drove for another hour while I worked the spinnaker. After we put the boat away he actually said, "Thanks for taking me out Dad."

He doesn't say "Thanks" for anything too often so that was quite a surprise. Maybe there's hope for him yet...

Karl's description is pretty funny, but our situation in the northeast is a mix of ages and stories.

Our fleets teams range from 25-30 and 45-60. They include generally well-to-do to the nearly broke. My take:

1) Teenagers: No mean$ for a competitve cat, and daddy is generally too fat and out of shape to consider a cat as a ride or family expense. Unless Wifey is hard-core sailor, she wants a family cruiser or other 4ksb for the family. (Those 4ksb's are non-threatening, and don't mess up your hair/make up.
2) 20-25: underrepresented generally because of college costs. We have a few, but even a $40 entry fee and gas costs can be a barrier for college kids and parents. If they cannot find cheap lodging at the regatta (unless affiliated with yacht clubs), forget about it. Add to that the high cost of a good boat, and well, a season of competitive sailing represents a big cost against school. These guys are found on lasers or Corinthian boats they can bum from a variety of sources, ore can buy pretty cheap.
3) 25-30. Many guys get married. Unless shis wife/GF is a hardcore sailor, (and there are a few in our fleet), he's going to be spending time either with her or his new family. Babies are a big deterrent to sailing.
4)35-40. Toddlers are a bigger deterrent to sailing. So are extraneous expenses such as sailing when weighed against baby clothes/diapers/family vacations at Disney. (hmm, sailing, $daycare, sailing or $daycare, what to do?) The lean years for any sailor...
5) 40-45. Dad, if he has money, might buy a boat and attempt to get his wife or kids or both on the boat. Neither are ready to race, but they day-sail.
5a) Divorced. Gets a boat, out having fun again.
6) 40-45-50+ If he's lucky, wife or kids like racing/ and the culture of beach cats, and they show up at the regattas.

I see the same thing as Rex, people under 30 or over 45.
That's not much different than the demographics when I bought my first catamaran.

I was 24 when I bought my first catamaran.
Not married (married at 25)
No children (had first of three at age 26)
Stopped racing at 28
Started racing again at 48 (1 year after #1 son started racing Lasers)

I'm delaying marriage as long as humanly possible so that I can continue to race.
Buy that ring, lose that boat.

Recently I was charged with making overly verbose responses to things. Guilty again...

"Oh, and thanks to CNN and FOX scaring the crap out of us 24-7, they also have over protective Mothers who would never let them out to play, alone, certainly not in the woods, what with all the sexual predators lurking behind every bush! What we thought was -normal- child rearing back in the 60's would be considered Child Abuse today!"

Amen to that.

My brother and I grew up with the same "get out of the house" instructions. We got full reign of the Narragansett Bay - at least as far as the outboards we resurrected from the junkyards and the gas we bought by selling minnows to the bait shop could push the skiff. Clamming, fishing, sailing, mostly in scrounged or resurrected stuff we fixed, all with the only mandate that we get back in time for dinner. Make sure you have a dime on you for a phone call in case you get in trouble. If you're stupid enough to end up in jail, you may have to spend the night. My parents would be in jail today...

Later as a family we went out on the family 4ksb pretty often. My mom wasn't that into it, but she went along and we had great family time on the boat. Usually last minute Sunday afternoon when we probably should have been getting ready for school the next day.

Nonetheless, I hope to let/make my kids do some of the same.

The age grouping thing is pretty spot on. I got my first cat a little bit out of school, a $500 Hobie 14 that I sailed as much as a I could (how many "sick" days can you get away with in the Summer before somebody notices...). But never raced at all until after getting a beat up 18 and the weekend sailing thing had started to dry up - future wife started to balk at it being the weekend activity of choice.

Week night racing has turned out to be my savior - I liken it to bowling or poker night. Your night out of the house, just happens to have sailboats. Leaves the weekends for other stuff and an occasional outing. Of course, as the rugrats get older it may change, as soccer, daisies, dancing, etc. all take up the time. Weeknights may become spotty too.

But one thing through it all - a progression of cheap used boats that allowed me to upgrade when it was time or the next one became available. It seems like the wells are starting to dry up a little there.

In our current thing in Galesville, we have an open class weeknight thing, and an OD sailing club thing. Most of the core group that started out in the weeknight thing have moved into more serious boats at the OD club thing (still come out on Tuesdays). It's doing well, but I see a problem developing - we don't get any new folks to the scene coming out with their used whatever boats to try things out much anymore. This used to be the feeder. Come out in a Prindle 18 you found for cheap, get hooked, by a 6.0 next, then into an A-Cat, F-16, N-20. Both scenes got fed. Now, some folks come into the club thing. But the N-20s are starting to get sold out of the area. The F-16 is growing, but mostly from folks from the other boats (either from crewing or drivers). The club doesn't seem to recognize out of club racing to count, so you need to attend the club races to keep your storage spot. This is one of the things that has led to the active boats not traveling around to some of the regattas on the Bay. That and it gets old breaking down and setting up complicated spin boats. The As have no excuses... ;-)

But I don't see the fun beginner boats as available as they used to be. The As, F-16s, and certainly N-20s are a little bit overwhelming for newbies to consider. And I'm sorry, but most of the roto-molded boats aren't as inspiring as seeing a Hobie-18 blast off the back of big Hawaii surf. I think most of the owners of those are waterfront owners looking for a toy to park next to the jetski. I'm probably wrong, but none have shown up in Galesville to race. Dropping $10-$20+k on a cat, especially if it is only going to get used for racing, is also not always a family friendly proposition.

Water access is also a big issue on the Chesapeake, at least around Annapolis. Most home owners associations would rather shoot you and bury your body than let you park a boat on a trailer at your house.

And it is work. I'll come back from a sail on the 27 (single handing, wife doesn't want to go and the kids are too little young to be safe with only one adult handling things), be putting on sail covers and coiling lines and tidying up when the Grady White pulls in with everybody aboard, zips up the canvas and heads for home in minutes. There are times I think there are more time efficient and family friendly ways to be on the water. Sometimes it is hard to keep the faith. Booze helps. But even the Tuesday night thing - you drive like to mad to get there after work, rig like mad, get to race for about an hour and half, then de-rig.

In the end, I believe it takes people that have an ability to have a passion for something to make it work. A lot of folks are the "been there done that" type. Some folks have the capacity to let something get under their skin so bad they can't live without it. Some of those folks find that something is sailing, and for a smaller set it's sailing cats. People will come to the sport, leave for a variety of reasons, and come back. People with the passion will make the drives, rig their boats, do the work just to see the leeward hull cutting through the chop. If they're married to people who can't understand having a passion for something, they will drift away, get divorced, and come back.

I'm 48. I'm helping a new friend in my neighborhood get into cat sailing. He's 50+. But I did recently unload a Hobie-14 that will be set up for another neighbors kids and their friends. And this past Summer I got both of my daughters and my niece out on the 27 for the first time (mom stayed home...). They liked it. So I see there's hope.

While I don't disagree at all. Just make sure you don't phuck up a good thing. On the flip side, if she gives a rats butt about you at all, she'll understand what sailing, racing, and franken-porsche's mean to you.

Not with proper management of the situation.

If you expect to keep sailing after marriage you marry someone who likes to sail. There are exceptions but not that many and most of those involve wives shopping while you go sailing.

Did you say something? I must have missed it.

the real problem with the low numbers of "yoots" in sailing or any sport is that you old farts didn't have that many kids!

Think about it. When you were a tot, how big was the "kids table" at a holiday dinner? Probably twice the size of the parents table.

And now? I'd be willing to bet the kids table is a fraction of the size of the "adult's table".

us 'Mericans got too caught up chasing "the good life" instead of aforementioned tail and are victims of our own success.

Birthrates in developed countries are down (so it's not just us), so much that most face population declines (not to mention enough young folks to clean up after the old farts)

So, in addition to all the other time-wasters we've developed to take kid's attention away from sport, we don't have a deep pool of youngsters (under 20) to solicit to start with...

So we're back to Ding's mantra "single moms need your support". If they're not out there helping our population, no one else will.... So dig deep, 'merica, your country needs you.

Home run Waterbug! You are joining us, right?

Awhile ago I hatched the Plan for Cat Sailor World Domination, and then the WRCRA faithful began doing their best. Below is the basic plan as updated and sent to the Fleet when I was making my first contribution to the effort:

All,
For an obvious reason, I felt like dusting this one off, with an update and change here and there. Enjoy!

I've always felt that a goal of the Chesapeake area catamaran sailing associations should be nothing less than achieving total multihull domination of the world sailing scene! One by one, the heathen half-boaters will be converted or left in our wakes! Those who don't join our cause will surely be crushed by it! So far, the increase in numbers of boats at the races this year have provided solid testimony that our plan is working. But it is a slow process overtaking the world one or two sailors at a time. It might just be the only thing slow about our sport.

So, time for plan B! Yes, we'll continue spreading the word and converting the unbelieving mono-sluggers, and yes, maybe some Inquisition-style techniques may have to be employed. But that just isn't enough. Nope.

We must out-procreate them! Yes! It's really so simple - multihulling couples have children to form the next wave of the true sailing faithful! What better way to achieve our goals! Imagine what the owners of the newest Standstill-30 will say! "My gosh, look how fast they sail! Egads! They're breeding too!"

What's that you say? It will take at least 9 months to start putting that plan into action? Not really. It seems that this plan has already been initiated by WRCRA members, from the Holmes to the Daunheimers to the LoSapios, from the Wellingtons to the Lees to the Sieverts. I may have missed a few, so if I have forgive my oversight and take a bow for your part in the plan! The newest arrival will be courtesy of Jackie and me!

For me, it's great to remember that in addition to being a truly blessed event, child birth to multihull couples really is another step in the march to world domination. But calling the whole effort the "Plan for Cat Sailor World Domination" may be a little unsettling for the rest of the sailing world, so let's just call it Operation "look out world, the cat-sailors are breeding" so nobody will know what we're up to. Our little secret.

Now let's all take to heart the example of those that have already thrust into action and labored for the good of the plan when push came to shove. Yes, we've had babies born to cat sailors before. It's a great and wonderful thing! But we need more! So you must get out there and do your part. Or at least train and practice like crazy for the day that you might.

That is all,
Kap'n Keith
Minister of Propaganda
Cat Sailing World Domination League

A final note - most studies show that families with little education are out-breeding those with some smarts. I consider cat sailors to be very smart. I suspect this is the reason there are more jetskis on the water than catamarans. This is a trend that will only continue if we don't get busy. So get busy, or at least practice like mad.

I never knew there was a thing called a catamaran till I was 34 yrs old and started working with Oley.

He talked NON-STOP about all his sailing adventures. So, I was like "take me sailing..let me try". "I will, someday" was his usual response. About 2 years later after asking yet again, he said I could go along to a regatta but "I was not getting on his boat!". After three regattas sailing with other skippers, tearing my hands to shreds from working the spin with no gloves, break downs, the long drives, etc I was still asking when the next race was. FINALLY he let me on his boat! And the rest is history...I AM HOOKED!!

But like a lot of guys have said....it is frustrating to spend all the time taking someone out and them never coming back. When I asked Oley about it-his answer was "wanted to make sure you would stay with it...I was tired of training crew".

I don't have the answers...just thought I would share how I got into the sport.

uh-oh Jay...going have to slap some facts on ya.
The millennial generation equals the population of the baby-boomers (or real close) like 78 million born between 1980-82 and 2000.
They're also called baby echo. There's also more in the hopper, forecasts thru 2025 are good. Dwindling numbers was GenX.
this is a bad scene. Is dragging them by their ears away for the X-box OK?Keith and I are giving that an amen!

I got to the same point...and bought an A-cat.

I think that the target group is 20 - 25. They are the ones hangin out at the beach, partying and havin fun at the beach away from the internet and all that other sedintary lifestyle crap. I think most people need to ease into racing through recreation first. Skydivers is another area to look at, their sport is similar to ours as far as the equipment, gear and concepts go. I went to a skydiving shop in Clewiston this Sunday and was totally enamoured with the similarities of their deal compared to ours...

Here's a question, the sport seems to have been growing the last few years.

Why?

Is it because somebody was doing something, or has it been natural?

I honestly don't think there is anything that can get people into this god-awful/wonderful sport other than them wanting to on their own.

Best quote from owner of a 50 footer while we were anchored and having dinner during a 120 mile distance race: "Phucking Stupid Sport!"

It's "natural" some people really, really enjoy the sensation of sailing cats, even when it's frustrating.

Seriously, how often have you had a bad day on the water?

Once a year a big national newspaper, Hobiecat/Nacra, and a sailing club organize a special day where people can get a ride on a cat.
They have to pay €25 and get a sandwich and a ride on one of the cats.
http://translate.google.nl/translat...ttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.catamaranopstapdag.nl%2F

I think JC did one of these days as well.
It usually attracts about 100 people (dont know exact numbers) and know of a few people who bought a boat or started crewing since visiting it.

I think the target market needs to be refined a little than what I am generally reading about here.

First of all, in marketing, its a lot easier to cross-sell a complimentary product (especially if it provides more of the right benefits) to people already buying than it is to non-users.

So I'd like to suggest two target groups of people aready sailing. First, current/past monohull sailors on the cusp of the primary age group - 45+. They have the willingness to sail and the ability to buy the more expensive boats. With kids getting older, they have more time as well.

The second target group would be the 15-25 group of monohull racers. You want to create enough of an impression to last them through their early family years.

I guess my poiint is increase your odds of a conversion by going to the sailing enthusiast. Some of the tactics preented in this thread are great, just target your offer a bit more.

It is not hard to figure out....

Expense + Set up/Tear down time + Storage issues + Excessive rules + Slow speed compared to other sports + No media exposure + Weather dependent + Location dependent = no interest by the masses.

Not everyone likes the same thing...just enjoy the sport you love and let others enjoy what they love...everyone will be happier.

Then don't target the masses is my response. Target the people with money/time/interest. Focus your efforts (if you are so inclined) on the right people.

I just left a group of dingy sailors and they have all the same concerns and frustrations.

That suggests the first place to start is reaching out to other small boating groups to secure access. If there is a lot of sailing activity in an area it will draw those interested.

If you want the 20-25 year old group to grow in your local races, design the races around what they want. Regattas need to be well organized, in fun places, and have great parties after racing. Great parties mean, there must be girls there, not just the 50 year old guys talking about the good old days. This age group will grow themselves once the momentum starts if the scene is right. It must be girlfriend friendly, so yes, have real bathrooms, and for the ones that don't want to race, have a list of things to do while their boyfriends are out sailing. Shopping and beaches are typically big sellers, as well as other people to hang out with.
The college racing scene is a great place to look for crew, and when they graduate and are considering what boat to buy, cats will be an obvious choice.
There is not doubt that yacht club regattas are an obvious fit for this group. Larger events with other young sailors is a draw and make the scene more social. Its good exposure for the cat-class, and its my experience they are happy to have the excitement that high performance boats bring to the events. HPDO, BBR,and Newport regattas are good examples of this here in the northeast.
Lastly.... provide FREE BEER!

Fantastic response. Spot on. I converted from keelboat sailing (owning) because I got so sick of handicap racing, and always being locked down in one location. We are having a ton of fun learning the cat, and the NW F18 fleet is growing quite quickly, with some fresh people joining this season from Acat and a keelboat (both long time cat sailors).

you know your curlies are longer than my leash, right?

"We must out-procreate them"

Should be easy nowdays with those big trampolines on beachcats AND the 18 and 16 fleets being mixed gender (perhaps that was the problem so long ago with the H-16 and Sharks being predominantly dudes?)

and back to Pete's train... why do we need more people in the sport?

So we have more people to race against (as long as they don't beat us because then we'll start a handicap system)?

So boats will be cheaper?

So we'll all feel popular?

Jeeze, just get out and sail (speak for myself). If you're having fun, does it really matter how big the sport is?

Off to my dodgeball world tournament...

You may not need more boats in Florida. I could use a few more up here. Especially F16 uni's

Also, it's the future of the sport that is the most dominant topic in the thread.

We can always use more. But we have enough to have a good time so why worry?

Maybe I just have a different mindset. I'd just like to see the sport grow and maybe be there for my kids.

... so you guys like the idea of targeting the 15-25 yr old group .... especially those that are sailing already???

You may want to look at the thread here on this forum ...

BBYRA(Barneget Bay Yacht Racing Assoc's) Junior Olympic Festival- July 25-26th .... it's about the inclusion of a "YOUTH MULTIHULL CLASS" being hosted at Island Hieghts Yacht Club (Island Hieghts NJ) .... last year at the CBYRA's JO Festival hosted at Rock Hall Yacht Club, Rock Hall Md. was the very first time that Junior Sailors racing on Multihulls was included ... now it's taken some work over the last 3-4 months ... but we have just procured an invitation (and a launching point) this year to the JO Festival held in NJ. This event has +300 boats in it ... and at first we were turned down .... but we didn't give up ....

You too can make something like this happen .... you just can not give up .... just keep trying ....

Harry

All good points, Flatlander.

"Dwindling numbers was GenX" - I fit into that group, and amongst my peers there are very few with more than two kids. Many don't have kids at all (too busy, too expensive, "not my thing", too much sacrifice, etc).


Hope those numbers of Gen Y'ers will fill the waters... Only way to do that is to get out sailing. THe more of us out ther ehaving fun, the more people might be curious. They won't be curious about boats that just sit in the yard...

Harry, good on Ya! What type of cats are they using?

Hi Timbo,

The Youth Multihull Class will compete using the H16 ... Hobie Div11 members have been very supportive of the JO Festival last year ... a free One-day "Quest Expert" clinic w/ a "chalk talk" followed by "on the water" racing drills ... provided "loaner" (not charter ... there is a difference) boats w/ insurance coverage provided by the HCA-NA. Mr Matt Bounds was the PRO last year and this year Mark Santorelli has volunteered to be the PRO, along w/ cat sailors providing the volunteers for Race Committee. We are planning/trying to follow the same format this year.

Now there are some details to work out w/ IHYC and SPYC yet ... I have been communicating to Mr Chris Wessels and Gordo of the HCA-NA ... and of course "Rondo" and members of Div11.

Now as the details are worked out I'll be posting the news ....

Harry
H18Mag/P19MX

This horse has been flogged a bit, but those Macca/Mischa videos have a combined views of over 7500, so I looked at the viewing statistics by country.

Here are the percentages for the USA, Europe and Australia repectively:

Age 35-44 17%, 45%, 50%
Age 45-54 57%, 27%, 25%

Not a sceientific poll, but Europe and Australia have more than double the USA 35-54 population. This suggests that the early family years and cost issues can be overcome.

I'd be interested in any comments by the Europeans or Austrailians on why they have had better luck with this younger demographic.

you young punks just think you know everything, which is why you don't watch those videos!

Here is an update with perhaps some interesting information.

There are 14K views on the CRAW video series on YouTube. Again, assuming this is representative of the racing cat sailor population, there is a demographic difference between viewers in Europe and the USA (which make up the vast majority of viewers).

For the USA, the percentage of under age of 45 viewers is 28%. For Europe it's 48%.

The biggest differences are in the 35-44 age group - Europe 38% to USA's 20% and the 45-54 age group where it's USA-52% and Europe's 32%.

With the financial constraints on younger people being similar plus the internet, computer games, TV, etc. being available world wide, why do you think Euroope appears to have a younger cat sailing population?

This statement is right on! I am 47 years old. My dad bought a 16 in '81 and we learned together. He quit sailing and I moved on to bigger and faster boats. I am an extreme sport junkie. I still race BMX and DH. I do bicycle trials and dirt jumping. Age isn't an issue, its exposure! The adrenaline crowd today has no idea how fast and on the edge cat sailing can be because there is no exposure. Its not cost or time, to them its just not cool enough. I am around some of the most extreme folks you could ever meet and they think sailing is for old rich guys. If I had only lake sailed I think I would have no interest but I learned on the ocean, where the danger element is real. Thats what keeps me sailing!

A saying from an Old Guy,
"If you did know old you are, how old would you be?"

Keep sailing!

I think this will help if it AC get much press here in the states.

Youth's on AC Excitement

Making me homesick