Whats the Max Wind for Starting F18 Races?

I've heard 25 but is this mph or knots? Is it a class restriction, or up to the PRO, as I couldn't quickly find a restriction in the class rules.
Cheers,
Pete

There is no restriction in the class rules.

There may be a restriction in the Sailing Instructions for a specific event, although it is generally up to the discretion of the PRO depending on the ability of the fleet and the Organizing Authority's ability to render assistance to people who need it.

is there a maximum design windspeed for F18-type cats?

It would seem imprudent to conduct a buoy race in sustained winds above this design maximum windspeed IMO, as the risk of damage/injury becomes greater than would otherwise be present if within design specifications.

Obviously, distance type formats can't adhere as closely to this guideline since the PRO can't be entirely sure of conditions throughout the day

Dave and I have sailed the infusion in 30 gusting over 40.

Upwind was no problem, downwind not so fun...

that's great and all (really), but is that within DESIGN windspeed?

Is a buoy race testing your ability to handle conditions beyond the design specifications of a boat?

In a more obtuse example, if your C20 max design windspeed is 20kts sustained, is it prudent for a PRO to start a buoy race in 25kts sustained, knowing the likelihood of equipment failure is notably higher?

I'm not sure, but would they start an F1 auto race in rain or gusty (15kt +) cross-winds, knowing that either of these conditions are outside of the design envelope?

Jay,
This ain't F1, I think you're over estimating the designers. I'd bet max windspeed for a design has never been considered ,much less recorded on a data sheet. Plus it would change with crew weights and sailcuts, and wave conditions.

No restrictions, but usually when the fleet is flipping regularly at the marks, races get cancelled. In my experience, carnage ensues >=25 knts in gusty, twisting breeze conditions with a confused sea state. I've raced liked that a few times, and its mentally and physically demanding. Usually the fleet gets tired and leave on their own accord, (and then the PRO's cancel).

They do race F1 in the rain and wind. They only stop the race when the water pools on the track caused by water flowing across the track.

This is always a popular topic.

Matt (wisely) gave the short version of the correct answer. Lots of additional factors come into play, as others have mentioned here.

Design definitely plays a role. Although "real" data is hard to come by, it starts to show up with an increased number of capsizes. For example, H16s can be raced longer in more wind than boats with larger sail plans. They are already more depowered, so can be controlled (by good crews) better in more wind.

The real dilemna is that you cannot make everyone happy. Unless it's blowing 40, SOMEONE will want to race. The OA and RC need to determine if that's the general consensus of the fleet (and this is NOT easy, just ask PU and Means "18.7 Knots" Davis).

Another thing to consider is the level of event (fleet race vs. weekend regatta vs. NAs); although, again, there will be a difference of opinion on what is fair...

Mike

Ultimately it is up to each individual skipper (and crew) when it's time to pull the plug. For the most part, we are all amateurs. There gets to be a point with wind strength were the day becomes less about racing and more about survival. When the conditions get to that point, it's time to head to the beach for a cold one. That point will be different for teams of different skill levels. Keeping yourself, your crew, and your equipment intact should trump a decision by the PRO. No pickle dish is worth the cost of injury or extensive damage incurred sailing in conditions beyond your ability.

Remember ...

It is the "CAPTAIN" that makes the call whether to race ...or not ....

So don't look to anyone else to make that decision for you ... it depends on too many factors that only the "Captain" of their own vessel know ....

I have a basic rule ... when my crew is no longer comfortable out "on the water" ... it's time to retire ... no questions ... no recriminations ... it's just time to call it a day ....

And sometimes the Race Committee misses something ... like when a Lightening Bolt came out of the blue sky right in front of us as we rounded "C" mark/gate and started to beat upwind .... w/ that the TheMightyHobie18 Fleet that was running in a pack all turned and headed back to the club which was downwind .... The Race Committee hadn't seen the Lightening Strike .... but the PRO reconized that "something" had happened that caused ALL of us TheMightyHobie18's to "skid-dattle" for the safety of the beach ... he got on the radio ... quickly asked questions .... then the horns began to blow ... the "N" over "H" flags went up ... and the "mark boats" started to take under tow those boats furthest from the beach ... we were done for the day ....

... the Committee Boat w/ the Pro/Race Committee was the last boat to dock at the YC ..... having shepherded the last boats in ....

Harry
H18Mag/P19MX

All good points, Harry.

This one is my personal pet peeve:



If you're at an event where this DOESN'T happen, regardless of the conditions or boats being sailed, it's time to find a new PRO.

Mike

Throw them IN the water!

I agree with all points, and feel that it's up to the competitors as to when to race/not race.

But in reality, it would seem that unless the PRO pulls the plug, many of us will consider racing in conditions that we shouldn't be.

Since the PRO will take the heat for any decision, at least one based on something objective like design parameters might help.

And if it's a national-level event, one would presume that a wider range of conditions would be acceptable, like Karl said

Mike, were you there for that one?

Who do you think bought the clown wig for PU and clown noses for the rest of the RC (it was Halloween week after all)?

Mike

I was there too! camera in hand

I'll be damned! I need that pic for insurance purposes! lol

Thanks for the memories, fellas!

Partly the reason I asked is I'm curious who might be interested in a drag-race from Sarasota to Key West. Its approx 170 nm so it would be better to start the race right as the wind shifts to the NW after a frontal system moves through. That might mean starting in a good bit of breeze.

It's going to be tough to get sailors that are capable of scheduling a run like that (and resources) around the weather!

We had a situation a while back on one of our island races where we shortened the course because of too much wind. This was mainly for safety of the fleet, not just the beachcats but all the boats, and we had some good sized sleds entered.

The breeze was really brisk where we were, but where we were going was a different story.... as the local weather station closest to the first mark was showing 50 kts with a few peak gust of 60 plus.. We still had a great race that day closer to shoreline with an average wind of 15 to 20 kts... with some great up wind and spinnaker runs.

Funny story from that day, we actually had a entrant tell us the missed the start because there wasn't enough wind to make it to the start staging area which was a screaming beam reach from where we launched from.... and we the race committee should consider having a tow boat for future races! Guess you can't please everyone.

I have set my own personal limits of 25 kts plus and I am not going out....replacement parts are getting expensive...

That's a lot of open water from Sarasota to Key West. lots can happen there, not the least of which is you would get run over by mysterious, high-speed craft with a funny hemp-like smell running with no lights on after dark.

And it's an exercise area for the base down there, so you actually face the possibility of being hit by ordinance "residue" (flares, etc)

Oh, and the abandoned oil rigs that aren't marked..

is that jmac old boat in the pic?

Yes, that was the FIRST one he chartered to me that got hit.

I like that given the picture:)

I'll be there since I have a place to stay in Sarasota and my modified TheMightyHobie18 should keep up well enough, if I don't have a real boat by then or can somehow convince Chris to take the N20 down (yeah right). I'd recommend a 2 day event if we can find a stop over point.

Look at the GT300/Tybee 500 race rules. Basically they go in anything, its the Skipper/Crew's decision whether to go or not go, not the PRO's decision. They'd probably cancel in hurricane/tropical storm force winds, at least I'd be towing my boat and hitting the tiki bar at the next stopover, given I broke 1/2 my boat in conditions that were <25 kts of breeze the entire week.

What about something like Tampa to Sarasota or something on the west coast. The logistics of going to Key West make for a lot of expense. This coast north of Naples and south of Dunedin has many possibilities. The water is generally more cat friendly (less broken boats).

Tampa to Marco Island and back. Easiest logistics. Maybe a stop in Venice? Depends on how long you want to be on the water. I would suspect average 10-12 knot seabreeze