Got my bag packed and will fly over in a few hours, its quite windy so it should be cool to watch from the shore. Driving on the wrong side of the road should be interesting...
If you have Direct TV you can watch the youtube replays on your TV. Just search Americas Cup in smart search. In fact you can watch anything that's on youtube that way.
If you have Direct TV you can watch the youtube replays on your TV. Just search Americas Cup in smart search. In fact you can watch anything that's on youtube that way.
Conditions for Sunday fleet race (18 gusting to 30+) Best fleet race so far! Insane speed (one boat touched 30knts), capsize, pitchpoles, lead changes. Don't miss seeing it!
Yep, but I during the last series I lost the feed a few times missing the finish of one race. Frustrating. This way you can see it without that and when I want.
If you have Direct TV you can watch the youtube replays on your TV. Just search Americas Cup in smart search. In fact you can watch anything that's on youtube that way.
If you don't have Direct TV.....loser.
I watch it live on the big screen by piping it through my xoom's HDMI plug. Must suck to have to wait to watch replays.
Some of these teams could really do with some multihull experts though, just watch the GreenComm capsize where pretty much everything goes wrong. They are actually sheeting in during the capsize and dont release the sheet when they right it causing it to flip over the other side. You dont even have to be a pro sailor to prevent mistakes like that. We where watching GreenComm prepare their boat before the races on saturday and you could tell from their bodylanguage that they somehow didnt feel confident.
I've been really impressed with the coverage coming from Plymouth. The commentary is much better than in Cascais. The big breeze conditions really show you what the boats can do, and reward the teams that can keep the boat upright and the gear working.
Agree it seems like some of the teams are pretty green when it comes to cats, it was even more obvious in Cascais but the consequences weren't as great. Overall I think this was an eye opener to some of the teams but also to spectators and TV viewers.
My friend who has little sailing experience and his friend who has none were glued to the screen watching a replay of day 1. He said it was more exciting to watch than soccer and baseball, obviously way more physical. Thats my opinion too but since I'm an avid sailor I wasn't sure how non-sailors would respond. But it looks like they really enjoy watching it.
If you have Direct TV you can watch the youtube replays on your TV. Just search Americas Cup in smart search. In fact you can watch anything that's on youtube that way.
If you don't have Direct TV.....loser.
I watch it live on the big screen by piping it through my xoom's HDMI plug. Must suck to have to wait to watch replays.
Actually, it must suck to have to stay home on a weekend morning and watch TV instead of sailing.
Sadly, they didn't take our advice on upgrading the checkered flag waver...
However, if all the races are sailed in this much breeze, I will definitely retract my issue with the champagne spraying...
Mike
I have some down time (thanks to a kidney stone or something) but had tm e to watch the same day 2 coverage. That was absolutely stunning. The speed trial runs, though, were run at what appeared to be an awful angle.
I liked the discussion on the fleet race regarding how hard the "slam dunk" maneuver is for multihulls and how Artemis got spit out the back on that one tack.
Given the slow turns, should they be pulling up the boards sooner to expedite? Are they not hauling in the jib fast enough? What else could they do?
I liked the discussion on the fleet race regarding how hard the "slam dunk" maneuver is for multihulls and how Artemis got spit out the back on that one tack.
Given the slow turns, should they be pulling up the boards sooner to expedite? Are they not hauling in the jib fast enough? What else could they do?
Artemis had a gear failure, that's why the passes looked so dramatic. They pulled the plug right then. The speeds they are going and the height gained from the apparent wind makes the slam dunk with gains close to impossible.
But did you see Spithill pull off a great lee bow on TNZ, only to have TNZ tack perfectly at the course boundary to stay in the lead (no penalty), and then loose it when they had to pass Artemis in said gear failure!?! Though they still could have stayed ahead if they didn't have such a crappy tack at the top mark. Anyone who still says the boats don't make good match racing is full of ****. The fact that it is difficult to tack the boats actually makes the racing more interesting, not less.
I liked the discussion on the fleet race regarding how hard the "slam dunk" maneuver is for multihulls and how Artemis got spit out the back on that one tack.
Given the slow turns, should they be pulling up the boards sooner to expedite? Are they not hauling in the jib fast enough? What else could they do?
Artemis had a gear failure, that's why the passes looked so dramatic. They pulled the plug right then. The speeds they are going and the height gained from the apparent wind makes the slam dunk with gains close to impossible.
Yet, they keep trying it again and again. I was yelling at the screen when Oracle4 choose to tack instead of cross NZ just before they were able to use Artemis as a pick due to their breakage. The more efficient the boat, the less dirty air it leaves behind it and the less likely you are to sit on our opponent. Go for the cross and try to keep your nose clean to reserve starboard advantage the next time it counts.
What's the "hobble" on the jib? The announcers kept referring to that as one of the reason several boats went over, or at least nearly over (the boats that flipped weren't able to release the jib because it was in the "hobble").
Again, the onboard mics were great. In the one capsize where they nearly saved it (except for the jib stuck in the "hobble"), you could hear someone on the boat saying, "We're OK, we're OK" as the bows came up and the boat rounded to weather. Of course, with the jib not being blown, it was only a matter of time before they went over...
As for their boat-on-boat tactics, it still amazes me that they even try for leebows or slam dunks. Especially after the completely disastrous "gybe to cover" in Portugal, you would think they would have realized by now that the speed of these boats is just not going to allow those sorts of maneuvers to pay, especially in the open water at the middle of the course. Maybe near a mark rounding. Maybe...
I think this is the deal. They are short a winch on those boats so when it comes time to Hoist( I think that's the task) the gennaker they blow off the jib sheet which has a line tied to the clew that limits the ease while they are hoisting the gennaker. That way it's not just flogging but still powering along a bit. problem comes when you need to ease past that point.
I think this is the deal. They are short a winch on those boats so when it comes time to Hoist( I think that's the task) the gennaker they blow off the jib sheet which has a line tied to the clew that limits the ease while they are hoisting the gennaker. That way it's not just flogging but still powering along a bit. problem comes when you need to ease past that point.
I hear what you're saying (and you're probably close), but I know I saw at least one boat raising the kite manually (same as on a F18, but with two guys pulling the halyard from the base of the mast). I was quite startled by this, and commented to my wife while we were watching: "Why are they doing that? They have winches on these boats!"
I didn't get anything from that clip above to explain the hobble...
EDIT: I just looked at dictionary.com, and while they don't list a sailing definition, the common definition (noun) has a variant that makes some sense in light of where you're going.
I'm sure they've be revisiting this as a good idea going forward...
As for the speed runs, I agree that it's awkward that they don't give a real-time speed, as well as max and average speeds at the end of the run. Not important to the goal, but fun nonetheless, and it's not like they have a shortage of instruments or data! I did like the red line showing the leader's pace as each successive boat went through the run.
I think this is the deal. They are short a winch on those boats so when it comes time to Hoist( I think that's the task) the gennaker they blow off the jib sheet which has a line tied to the clew that limits the ease while they are hoisting the gennaker. That way it's not just flogging but still powering along a bit. problem comes when you need to ease past that point.
I hear what you're saying (and you're probably close), but I know I saw at least one boat raising the kite manually (same as on a F18, but with two guys pulling the halyard from the base of the mast). I was quite startled by this, and commented to my wife while we were watching: "Why are they doing that? They have winches on these boats!"
I didn't get anything from that clip above to explain the hobble...
EDIT: I just looked at dictionary.com, and while they don't list a sailing definition, the common definition (noun) has a variant that makes some sense in light of where you're going.
I'm sure they've be revisiting this as a good idea going forward...
As for the speed runs, I agree that it's awkward that they don't give a real-time speed, as well as max and average speeds at the end of the run. Not important to the goal, but fun nonetheless, and it's not like they have a shortage of instruments or data! I did like the red line showing the leader's pace as each successive boat went through the run.
Mike
It may be topping off the hoist or trim on the genny then, but somebody explained during the racing that some of the teams if not all used a tether/hobble because they were short one winch. When I get my turn (I wish) on an AC-45 I'll let you know for sure.
Structural hull damage.If they can fix everything by tomorrow's race start that will be incredible. I hope some onboard footage comes out of that after they analyze it. Sounds like it was pretty brutal.
What's the "hobble" on the jib? The announcers kept referring to that as one of the reason several boats went over, or at least nearly over (the boats that flipped weren't able to release the jib because it was in the "hobble").
Again, the onboard mics were great. In the one capsize where they nearly saved it (except for the jib stuck in the "hobble"), you could hear someone on the boat saying, "We're OK, we're OK" as the bows came up and the boat rounded to weather. Of course, with the jib not being blown, it was only a matter of time before they went over...
As for their boat-on-boat tactics, it still amazes me that they even try for leebows or slam dunks. Especially after the completely disastrous "gybe to cover" in Portugal, you would think they would have realized by now that the speed of these boats is just not going to allow those sorts of maneuvers to pay, especially in the open water at the middle of the course. Maybe near a mark rounding. Maybe...
Mike
I had assumed that "hobble" was the announcer's term for a winch but after looking it up (dictionary), I'm assuming it's a line used to limit the outward travel of the jib as someone else mentioned. Which could easily explain why it was such an issue if the hobble was too short.
Yeah, the term makes sense. The use of such a device/line on these boats in that breeze... not so much...
A simple fix would be to take the hobble line through a cleat so they could just blow it off (assuming someone can reach it when the boat is going sideways). Of course, without getting a better look at these boats up close, it's hard to say that they're not already set up this way, but they simply couldn't get it uncleated in time...
Even keelboats have gone on a "winch diet" in the last 30 years. A typical early '80s IOR boat was studded with them; modern keelboats replaced multiple winches with one servicing a row of rope clutches.
It doesn't make sense to add another set that would be used for only one maneuver. The hobble needs to be adjustable - and have the capability of being blown off pretty damn quick when things go sideways.
I did notice ETNZ and OR4 were letting the jib flog more on the bearaways than the other teams. The other teams will learn. Some faster than others.
you need the hobble so you can take the jib sheet off the winch and load the kite sheet onto it.
on the X40 we have a self tacker and a clutch so you still need to unload the winch exactly as the AC45's do, but we can still control the jib sheet via the clutch, so if in a bear away it all goes a bit wrong its still possible to ease.
The AC45's can have multiple clips on the hobble so you can have a short or long hobble setup pretty easy, but it takes a day like that to prompt such thoughts i guess..
Hobbles are usually short pieces of line fixed to a point on the boat with a shackle that attach to a loop spliced into the jib sheet, to facilitate transferring one sheet to the winch from another. Its quite common on large race boats. Saves the weight/complexity of another winch. Didn't you ever wonder how a TP52 can have only 5 winches? Even on the 65'er I sail we use hobbles to get the kite sheet on the primary winch during a set, and we have 11 winches.
i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here. i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis. Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time. "if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"
i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here. i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis. Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time. "if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"
Tacking just ahead and to leeward of your competitor while heading upwind so they're on your hip. It's a tactic used quite often in monohull racing to force your opponent to tack away, since they can't live in your dirty air.
The problem with doing it in catamarans is that you have to initiate the tack so far ahead, you might as well cross and/or it gives your opponent an opportunity to pinch up out of your dirty air before you get going.
T-Hutch has been racing big multis (ESS) for a while. He knows better.
i hope you guys don't mind me chiming in here. i keep see these monohull sailors that have the helm of these big cats trying to tack safe leeward. In the first match race on Saturday 9/17, Artemis had the room to cross, shut the door on Korea and lay the mark. Instead they tacked safe leeward, which is really hard to make work on a cat, then they failed to lay the mark, had an extra tack to do, and they got sent out to opposite/wrong side of the course. Korea didn't get covered, and picked up a nice shift, gust or whatever, and totally destroyed Artemis. Seems to me Artemis guys, as awesome as they are, need to employ some primitive Hobie racing tactics from time to time. "if you're not first you're last" -Reese Bobby in "Taledega Nights"
It's called "lee bow" here in the states. In my opinion, it can be done on cats but the apparent wind is so far forward due to the increased speed and the dirty air (bent and/or piled up air to windward) of the cat is much less than in a slower monohull. As Matt indicated, to pull this off on a cat in a match race is to give up a lot of lead you would otherwise have had if you just held your course. It is sometimes beneficial in a fleet race if you have someone on your hip but this position is usually a consequence of some prior positioning issue you had with another boat further ahead of the one on your hip.
I'm seeing a lot of issues on these boats that we experience with A) having a lot to do with only a few hands and B) being amatures. Coutt's screw up with the genny sheet was a result of poor house keeping in between and prior to maneuvers. I don't know how Ogletree missed that gate to begin with and how they didn't realize their mistake when they were between the two gate boats. I'm not saying I would do better! Just pointing out that this is a lot of new stuff to everyone involved.
To those who watched the carnage today. How can the commentators state that greencom was on port when the other boat hit them? Looks like greencom was sort of camping out on starboard and then the other boat (think it was artemis) came up and tried to duck their sterns and missed. Aside from that, who is the female commentator?
How can the commentators state that greencom was on port when the other boat hit them? Looks like greencom was sort of camping out on starboard and then the other boat (think it was artemis) came up and tried to duck their sterns and missed.
It's difficult to tell much given the very brief snip of video leading up to the collision. I do, however, notice that just before contact, Greencom's jib is flapping nearly straight back, all aboard are facing forward and trimming, and that the helmsman changes sides. The wing is fairly loose and the rudders are over to starboard. Therefore, it looks to me like Greencom is changing course (heading up). Artemis tries to duck but is unsuccessful.
The force of contact spins Greencom around, and causes her wing and jib to flip to the starboard side. Therefore, just after the collision, Greencom has the appearance of being on port tack. That might be why the commentator said she was on port.
Was there a penalty or redress for either of them? I'd need to see more video (or hear more testimony) to make an informed decision.
Mike
Greencomm was assessed a penalty, but then they were tagged (again) by Aleph. A bit more seriously that time: That's the reason they headed back in, not the collision with Artemis.
that last fleet race was what needs to be marketed to the non-sailing crowd. Lots of action, plenty of lead changes, crashes/spills, etc. The bow-cam shot of ENTZ and O-5 with less than 2 meters spacing and both hauling the mail at 30 kph should get the blood pumping on anyone...
... you can look from above at Greencom and see what happened
Well, the VirtualEye replay doesn't exactly match the on-boat video, so I'm a little suspect of the sensor data. For instance, VirtualEye shows Aleph turning up into GreenComm and hitting her starboard hull broadside rather then bearing away and catching the inside of her port hull at the rudder post.
What VE does indicate, however, is that GreenComm tried to tack from port to starboard, but went into irons before completing her tack. She then drifted backwards onto port tack again in front of Aleph. GreenComm was moving forward just before contact so she was either on port tack (if she achieved a close-hauled courese), or still tacking (if she was moving forward but above close-hauled). In either case, GreenComm was the keep-clear boat.
At least, that's what the ROW would be if the America's Cup Series was run under the Racing Rules of Sailing - which I don't believe is so.
Energy Team flipped pre-start and righted in less than 3 minutes - using a water-start technique. I was impressed.
China Team flipped at the first mark.
Artemis flipped mid-race after what looked like a spectacular save. They went over on the drag of the sails alone.
Terry said water in the hull, as a result of the collision with Greencom, contributed to the capsize. In the replays he has no steerage and he calmly( for Terry) says "we're going"
Thanks for the clarification on Annie's name, Matt.
Anyway, replays are awesome. You can definitely see GC tacking from port to starboard just leading up to the collision about 40 seconds before the start.
Also, Oracle Spithill going inside of Oracle Coutts at the first gate is textbook training for sailors and protest committees!
... you can look from above at Greencom and see what happened
Well, the VirtualEye replay doesn't exactly match the on-boat video, so I'm a little suspect of the sensor data. For instance, VirtualEye shows Aleph turning up into GreenComm and hitting her starboard hull broadside rather then bearing away and catching the inside of her port hull at the rudder post.
What VE does indicate, however, is that GreenComm tried to tack from port to starboard, but went into irons before completing her tack. She then drifted backwards onto port tack again in front of Aleph. GreenComm was moving forward just before contact so she was either on port tack (if she achieved a close-hauled courese), or still tacking (if she was moving forward but above close-hauled). In either case, GreenComm was the keep-clear boat.
At least, that's what the ROW would be if the America's Cup Series was run under the Racing Rules of Sailing - which I don't believe is so.
Regards, Eric
If you watch further though, you will see Artemis (not Aleph) is the one that hits GC's inner port stern. GC got beat up by 2 boats pretty quickly (only one of which was really GC's "fault"). Aleph hits GC's starboard hull, and then Aleph sails away. GC then tacks in front of Artemis and fouls Artemis. Artemis then fouls GC by running into them from astern
Energy Team flipped pre-start and righted in less than 3 minutes - using a water-start technique. I was impressed.
Have any of you tried this righting method? It looked like a support boat towed them from the bows and the sail just flew the mast out of the water. Most boat-assists I've seen pull perpendicular to the hulls to right the boat.
It was very impressive to see this monster boat get righted in only minutes and sail on to finish the race. Calm management, either by cat crew or support boat.
If you watch further though, you will see Artemis (not Aleph) is the one that hits GC's inner port stern. GC got beat up by 2 boats pretty quickly (only one of which was really GC's "fault"). Aleph hits GC's starboard hull, and then Aleph sails away. GC then tacks in front of Artemis and fouls Artemis. Artemis then fouls GC by running into them from astern
Ah! That explains it. I didn't realize that GreenComm got hit twice so I stopped watching the replay too soon to see the contact with Artemis.
FWIW, I think you have the analysis right too. At about time -40, GreenComm (tacking) fouls Aleph and Aleph cannot reasonably keep clear. At t -25, GreenComm (tacking) fouls Artemis and Artemis heads up to avoid contact. At t -20, GreenComm completes her tack and pulls away. Artemis ducks behind to pass under GreenComm, but GreeComm heads up slightly and stalls. Artemis cannot bear away quickly enough and hits GreenComm's port hull. Artemis might argue that GreenComm changed course and did not give them room to keep clear, but I don't believe that's a strong argument. The crux of the issue is did GreenComm compel Artemis to break a rule, or did Artemis own action lead to the collision. In my opinion, I think Artemis simply ducked a bit too close.
That is, however, a really close call and the umpires may have seen it differently. Also, do the America's Cup Series rules allow for offsetting penalties in fleet racing? If so they might have declared the penalties cancelled between GreenComm and Artemis, and penalized GreenComm for her earlier foul of Aleph. They didn't say, so we may never know.
It would be nice if the coverage showed the reason for a penalty, as well as the fact that one was assessed. Then the commentators wouldn't have to speculate, and the viewers wouldn't be left guessing.
for anyone who was at Plymouth, was there any chance for the average person to interact with the teams and get some autographs, or is that strictly forbidden?
I was looking at one of the VIP packages for San Diego, and the prices weren't too extreme. Is anyone familar with the area?
Eric, I also agree with those comments (and yours). After watching the WHOLE thing, they got to the complete replay at the end of the race, and things are easier to see (especially with the virtual replay, although even that was a litte confusing).
CG must have felt like a punching bag. The second collision was probably a result of the first, since they were probably still assessing damage and not really thinking about racing at that point (major damage to the starboard hull from collision #1).
I'm guessing that the penalty was from the first collision (they just said it was a port/starboard penalty, who knows if that was a guess or if they're being fed that info from the umps).
All in all, great coverage, but definitely room for improvement (even some minor tweaks would go a long way). Where can we send our comments?
for anyone who was at Plymouth, was there any chance for the average person to interact with the teams and get some autographs, or is that strictly forbidden?
I was looking at one of the VIP packages for San Diego, and the prices weren't too extreme. Is anyone familar with the area?
There was nothing formally organised. The workshop and storage areas understandably were out of bounds to visitors as boats were being craned in and all sorts of work was going on. The public area was quite close though. I talked to several team members as they came and went but only because I know them personally and they came and talked. Maybe the VIP package provides some extras?
On orcacle racing site shows a fan getting autographs of both O4 and O5 skips. Lucky me... I will be travelling from Canada to Oceanside CA around mid Nov, San Diego only 30 minute drive! You can easily find me, I'll be in shorts and be very pale.
I can't help the grin I get watching this video of some of the worlds greatest 9 knot sailors adjusting to the speed and tactics and technique required of a boat that sails faster than the wind. I'm not sure the embed link will work so I've posted a link. They look like I felt after year 5 of my catamaran sailing experience.
![[Linked Image]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/320554_283888738304233_119505771409198_1225136_1007888778_n.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s-hphotos-snc7.fbcdn.net/328213_174556902622009_126453804098986_381246_457805893_o.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s-hphotos-ash4.fbcdn.net/332135_174556935955339_126453804098986_381247_2118877952_o.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://s-hphotos-ash4.fbcdn.net/339219_174556969288669_126453804098986_381248_474638377_o.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/uploads//monthly_09_2011/post-2557-030369400%201316360234_thumb.jpg)
