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Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23

Posted By: soulsailor

Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/29/11 12:07 PM

Has anyone had the chance to see or sail or know anything about these 2 boats? Just wanted to see what you all say, I am coming from a life of mono hull growing up but i have recently been branded with a feeling from a F24 and a F28r of SPEED..
I just cant get this feeling out of me 22 knots is fast i dont need to go any faster! smile F-boats are way out of my price range right now. So my thoughts are Beach able some storage areas and at the most able to carry 8 people. I have close family here.. Some have never been sailing before. I will be sailing in Lake Erie and some closer inland lakes.

Thanks
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/29/11 03:45 PM

The plus side for taking families sailing is that the passengers on a cat are between the hulls, as opposed to being outside the hulls on a tri. this gives a safer feel to being on a tramp cat.
the downside of a cat is that it can fall over!
Posted By: pgp

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/29/11 03:51 PM

I don't think having 8 people on either boat is safe, 3 or 4 max.
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/29/11 05:27 PM

The R21 is a 1000 lb boat with a 31' mast, it'll see speeds in the high teens with 2 or 3 aboard in winds above 20 kts. You can take 4 to 6 people out in light air safely, if you take out large numbers of folk on either boat in bigger winds you risk breaking the boat. The 23 is larger and lighter, better top speed, subject to the same caution about big loads in high winds. The Reynolds has more below deck storage, more of a cruiser than the Stiletto. Either craft powered up will require skill to maintain control, both will require caution on a big lake when the wind is up. Both are nice boats.

Dave
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/30/11 10:23 AM

Thanks Davefarmer!
That is what i was looking for, well since my budget is very less then what i would like i came across this reynolds, for 5 k at most time i might have 4 people.. i was looking at a Hobie sport/w wings but this hobie is like 40 miles from me compared to 757 miles to the reynolds! Or do i keep waiting for something else to pop up.. But i feel i am past waiting, OHhh i don thinking ill be going out in anyting higher then 15 knts for a while! in any of these boats untill I am sure of things
Posted By: bacho

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/30/11 03:17 PM

Traveling a long ways is sometimes something you just have to do. A guy drove 800 miles to buy my Hobie 18, and I was just about to pull the trigger on driving that far for a mystere when it sold.
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/30/11 04:14 PM

You are so right i have a Hobie 18 magnum with wings that i found, I just dont know what to get. I know there is no storage on the 18 but i like to own rare things. I am told and i see that the magnums are slim to find. But i know also that the R21 is rare to only 50 made in the us
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/30/11 06:19 PM

The travel to get a boat is just part of the cost of a boat that fits your needs, if you aren't willing to wait indefinitely for something closer. I'm in WA, and Flight Risk came from SF, as did the A cat. The HT and the ARC came from FL. The Reynolds came from Portland, and the Stealth and the 18 square came from SoCal. In half the cases I found catsailors I could bribe to drag the boats my direction.
The 18 Magnum and the H21 are comfortable beachcats for 2 plus sailors, but the performance diminishes significantly with higher crew loads. The R21 is a much bigger boat with much greater freeboard, and a greater ability to carry loads, within above mentioned limits. All are well made boats that are fun to sail.
Should you end up with the R21, I can connect you with Chris Park who bought mine, and has it nicely tricked out.

Dave
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/30/11 07:28 PM

Very cool Dave thanks i think i am looking moving towards the r21 Like i said i came from mono life so 6-10 knot of boats speed was always the goal and it was a picture moment on the instrument panel if we reached it. So an easy 6 and above knots would be awesome for me! thanks
Posted By: bacho

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/30/11 11:48 PM

Are you planning to leave these boats rigged on the water? Do you really ALWAYS plan to have more than 3 people? I am thinking that an Hobie 18 would be far easier to launch and rig meaning you will sail it more and divide trips for that many people up instead of several big trips. I like the idea of the 21 or 27 but rigging them sounds like a PITA and I know that would push me to not launch it for those shorter days.
Posted By: carlbohannon

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/31/11 01:37 PM

If it makes a difference, a version of the Reynold's 21 is in production as the Z21.

http://www.wingzsailboats.com/z21cruisingcatamaran.htm

This means there will be some level of parts support.

I don't know the status of the company. There are questions about them being in buisness.
Posted By: Matt_Z

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/31/11 02:11 PM

I've owned both, sold the Reynolds a year and a half ago to buy a Stiletto. The question about keeping the boat in a mast up storage area or apart on a trailer is one you need to give a lot of thought to. Putting either of these together is not a quick, trivial thing. If I had to put either one together for a day sail, I'd look for something else.
The Reynolds is a tank compared to the Stiletto, but depending on the winds in your area a tank might be what you need. If you need interior space, the Reynolds is the way to go. You could sleep 2 in the hulls if you had to, there's no way you could spend more than 5 minutes in the Stiletto hulls. I wouldn't put 8 people on either unless you had a light wind day.
For a first catamaran you might be better off with the Reynolds. It's a much tamer boat with a Portsmouth rating of 84 if my memory's correct, compared to 59 on the Stiletto (with spin and light crew).
Keep in mind that both of these are older boats and due to their size anything you might need to replace will cost more. Make sure the trampoline is in good shape.

Out of curiosity, are you looking at the Reynolds for sale in GA? If so, that's my old boat and it's in great shape. 23s can be hard to come by, it took me a while to find mine. Found it through someone on this site.
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 10/31/11 02:13 PM

If you want more information on the Stiletto, you can go to www.stiletto.wildjibe.com/forum Someone might even have one for sale there.

Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 12:01 PM

MATT Z YES i am going down to get it! I dont mind the setup I just didnt want to sail slow! Can you tell me anything about this boat, i am in contact to with Randy Reynolds! Rigging the boat is all part of daysailing! I will get a Hobie one day! Right now i want something that i can take a view people out on! What about raising the mast is there a easy way in doing this? What about reefing or taken down the main sail i see this is boom less! thanks.
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 01:58 PM

Because the boat is 12' wide, it has to be collapsed to trailer. Therefor, it takes 1.5 to 2 hrs with a couple of experienced guys to assemble or disassemble it. A big part of that is tightening the tramp. With a well designed gin pole, mast raising and dropping is easy and safe. Mine could be done on the water.

Dave
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 02:26 PM

Ok well this will be my learning boat i guess. I am fine with it, i have talked to a few hobies guys and some told me they have seen people take 1hr with there hobies rigging it and stuff, so i know after i know what i am doing it should go a little faster! smile if not then the wife will hate it! smile
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 03:04 PM

Another question i have ,since this is my first purchase of any kind of boat. what do i need to transport this boat. To pull it home if i get pulled over, is there some temp registration papers i need, tag stuff? any help is greatly appreciated!
thanks
Posted By: Matt_Z

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 04:25 PM

Soul, I don't know about the trailer laws between GA and where you're going. I do know that when the gent bought it from me he towed it from NC to GA without plates or trailer lights. Not sure how that would fly in your neck of the woods.
That boat sat unused at a sailing club for a long time, maybe 15 years. It had a tree growing between the hulls, I had to take it apart to move it. I needed a project and had my eye on the boat for a few years. There were 2 of them there and as it turned out they would not sell one, only both. That worked out since between the 2 I got one usable boat.
Raising the mast on this boat is a bear, there is no gin pole. One could be rigged pretty easily if you look into how they work or find someone nearby that's familiar with them.

If your wife likes quick set up, she's going to hate this boat. I'd plan on it taking a day and a half the first time. Honestly, if you don't have a sailing club near you where you can keep the boat assembled I think you're making a mistake. Comparing putting this together to raising the mast on a hobie is comparing apples and oranges. When on a trailer this boat is completely disassembled. That is a lot of trampoline to lace. I think the best you can hope for is a 3 hour assembly time after getting some practice. After those 3 hours you'll be too tired to go sailing.
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 04:48 PM

WOW really, so now you are talking me out of this boat! so How does it sail, is it a good boat to sail the rigging might be a tuff, but if i keep it assembled.. hmmm now i am thinking
Posted By: bacho

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 05:38 PM

My hobie 18 took more like 20min to rig. I agree rigging is not something you want to spend at least 2 hours on everytrip.
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/01/11 05:51 PM

well unless its winter i wanted something high off the water something to take home, not leave with marina, but i could leave it rigged somewhere!
Posted By: Matt_Z

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 12:41 PM

If you can leave it rigged you'll get a lot more use out of it. The boat sails fine, no problems there. I saw that the guy that bought it came in 2nd in his class in the Buzzelli Regatta last year.
It's certainly high off the water, you'll stay dry most of the time.
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 02:34 PM

Well i am waiting for him to reply back to me, but its to bad it isnt a little bigger.. But i am thinking why do youhave to take the nets all the way off of this boat? when u have to move it to another location i dont understand that? I think i could figure something out to leave the nets on it! SO the boat is pretty fast then your saying, how long did you have this boat and when did it sit on trailor? I am wondering its a 1980 i hope there isnt and soft spots in the fiberglass!
Posted By: jkkartz1

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 02:52 PM

It's too wide for trailering.

The Reynolds at the Buzzelli raced in the High Portsmouth class on the small boat course, not with the Stiletto's.
Posted By: Clayton

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 02:59 PM

Don't know if you've seen this or not but there is a Stiletto 23 and a Reynolds 21 for sale here:

http://stiletto.wildjibe.com/cgi-bin/pgs-db.cgi?loc=http://stiletto.wildjibe.com/forsale/&database=forsale/forsale-db.txt
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 04:07 PM

Yes i ahve already been all over that site that is the Reynolds i am looking at. Well the boat once on the trailor comes together so that is why i am saying maybe the net doesnt have to come off all the way!
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 04:17 PM

I have a Reynolds 33, and lacing the tramp is 45 mins of the 2 hour assembly process.

No it can not be transported without removing the tramp.

Unless you have a place where you can store and ramp launch it fully rigged, you'll get tired of the process very quickly and loose interest in sailing the boat.

I tear mine down and travel with it several times a year, so I know what I'm talking about.

-Mike
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 05:45 PM

wonder if i can put wings on this R21? that would be cool very cool! SO tell me about this net thing, its bothering me, there has to be away like is it the pow and stern that the net goes through loops or something? i was thinking if the stern and bow poles come off then you can squeeze the hulls together on the trailor with net still connected. I havent seen this boat yet so i am thinking about it, AND how easy is the mast to go up?

thanks
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 11:59 PM

The tramp can stay mostly on the R21 for trailering, but all 3 beams are unbolted and removed when collapsing. So the front of the tramp is disengaged from the front beam( it's a bolt rope into a groove), and the rear is loosened and unhooked from the rear beam. The bitch is that the side lacing(1 side) needs to be substantially loosened as well to get the hulls far enough apart when reassembling to get the beam bolts started. So you don't have to completely thread the lacing, but you do have to fully tension both the side and rear lacing when the boat is put together. And this consumes over 45 minutes with 2 guys.
Realistically, if you can't find a place to at least keep the boat fully assembled on it's trailer, near water, neither the R21 or the S23 is gonna get sailed very often. They're just too much set up and tear down time for day sailing. It'll get old very fast. Again, with a buddy who knew the drill, the fastest we could get the Reynolds assembled from driving to the ramp, to sailing away, was 2 hrs. And we had quite a bit of practice.

Dave
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/02/11 11:59 PM

There's a R21 in the classifieds here that is from Minnesota. I'm about positive I know that boat. I haven't been on it, but its my ex-girlfriends-sister's-boyfriends-parents boat.....

I've never been on it or seen it up close, I've seen it on the water from a distance and that's about it. Its a 507 area code, and I can't imagine there's two of em' in a rural area code. If you need me to go look at it I can if you set it up. I'm about 20 minutes away from it.
Posted By: coastrat

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/03/11 01:46 AM

if your gonna be a trailor sailor, pick a boat that is quick to set up. i drive 70 minutes to get to the beach so every minute it takes to set the boat up counts. i can set up my old prindle 16 in under 30 mins, logged over 70 outings over the past 3 seasons...could have upgraded many times but every extra thing cost valuable set up time...if i kept the boat at the club, i would go all out
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/03/11 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by carlbohannon
If it makes a difference, a version of the Reynold's 21 is in production as the Z21.

http://www.wingzsailboats.com/z21cruisingcatamaran.htm

This means there will be some level of parts support.

I don't know the status of the company. There are questions about them being in buisness.


In looking at thier site I wonder what the Z18P and Z19P are.....Prindle maybe?
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/03/11 03:33 PM

I am on the way to pick mine up! it was Cheap and its my first Multi hull, i needed storage and beachable and fast boat, wanted something high off water also.. This boat looks clean hopefully it matches the pictures when i get there!
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/03/11 03:45 PM

Congradulations! Welcome to the club. Keep us posted.....

Dave
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/04/11 12:29 PM

if you get a chance subsribe to my YOUTUBE look up jtechie3 i will post a lot of movies soon but there are some out there now.. OH Thanks i will be soon a Multihuler
Any tricks on raisng mast and anything please share I am open to everyones comments!
I take this like camping, you have to put a tent up dont you ,? IT IS WORK?
thanks ALL!
Posted By: davefarmer

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 11/05/11 05:10 AM

These shots are of the gin pole on Chris Park's Reynolds 21, which has a SC20 mast(33'), and a boom.

The gin pole has a yoke that pins to the the mast thru a hole located at the widest point of the mast. Just forward of that is a standard small boat trailer winch. Chris currently has wire on this one, but I used a 7/16" line for years. This runs fwd to a block just aft of the pole tip.
A vertical slot, just slightly wider than the forestay diameter, is cut in the pole, which lands just above the nico press sleeve that secures the thimble that terminates the forestay.
The winch line terminates in a cast hook with a spring loaded keeper, and this snaps to a s.s. ring at the junction of the 2 bridle wires.
Also attached to the tip of the gin pole are 2 guy lines that clip to the ends of the main beam, stabilizing the pole in the centerline plane.
This system requires that the mast be likewise secured side to side to keep it in that same plane. This boat came with baby stays, attached just below the spreaders, that could be quickly transferred from their fwd chainplates to the beam ends(which have stout s.s loops welded to the end caps). Trapeze wires could work too. Or install something that could be used for this purpose and secured out of the way under sail.
So, with these secured, pin the yoke to the mast, slot the forestay, attach guy lines to beam ends, and clip the winch line to the bridle wires. With the side stays attached to their chainplates, engage the pawl on the winch and crank away. The mast crawls up with no drama, and the gin pole holds it up securely while the loosened forestay turnbuckle is pinned to the ring. Then the winch is released, gin pole removed and forestay turnbuckle tightened.
With all lines properly attached, this is easy and safe. But always be vigilant, the forces are big, and the consequences of mistakes are significant.
One advantage of this system(as opposed to one working off the trailer) is that the mast can be raised and lowered on the water, useful for bridges and negotiating ramps with overhead obstructions. For many years I kept the boat assembled full width on the trailer, and raised and lowered the mast each launch. Took about 10 minutes, up or down.

Dave

Attached picture R21 gin pole 001ee.jpg
Attached picture R21 gin pole 003ee.jpg
Attached picture R21 gin pole 004ee.jpg
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 06/10/14 12:39 AM

Well i have been sailing my Reynolds 21 now for 3 years now.. I have to say i am so glad i picked this boat! I have bout new sails for her last year this year i did a mod to my transom, i do believe i gain 2 knots! smile below is my fix

https://plus.google.com/u/0/113618646846617070054/posts
Posted By: soulsailor

Re: Reynolds 21 vs Stiletto 23 - 07/10/14 01:20 PM

So did anyone else buy a Reynolds ?
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