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Rally?

Posted By: pgp

Rally? - 11/21/11 11:01 PM

http://www.bymnews.com/news/newsDetails.php?id=95245

I'd never heard of this, 1,100+ people. Ever been tried with beach cats?
Posted By: rehmbo

Re: Rally? - 11/22/11 01:24 AM

You need to read the story about the Hobie sailors that crossed the Atlantic. Check here: http://users.tpg.com.au/kkmiller/hobie/across_atlantic.html
Posted By: JJ_

Re: Rally? - 11/22/11 04:03 PM

Sounds good. When will you begin organizing it?
Posted By: daniel_t

Re: Rally? - 11/22/11 05:47 PM

Texel Round the Island race? That's 100km long and often has in the neighborhood of 1000 beach cats participating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knY08LrNyHg
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 05:52 PM

I read about it in Cruising World once or twice. Sounded like a good group to join if you're just starting out blue water cruising. There are other types of similarly situated organizations which set up for various routes (NE USA to Carribean, Panama Canal, etc.)

No beachcat is rated for blue water sailing that I'm aware of. Not so much for their lack of durability, but rather the crew's inability to seek shelter from the elements (exposure is probably the biggest killer out there)

Trade your Tiki in for a good used Raider 302 or Stilleto and you could feasibly consider the Bahamas for a week or so of crusing
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 05:54 PM

I wasn't thinking about racing beach cats in blue water. What I meant was; has anyone tried organizing a beach cat get together NOT centered on a racing event? Just a schmooze and sail...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 05:56 PM

Wasn't that Cuba run something akin to what you're looking for?

Everglades Challenge is also something you can "race" in or just sail/paddle to complete
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 06:06 PM

Not at all. The rally thing caught my eye because it attracted a lot of people. I was thinking "Round Sanibel" or some such; Hiram's with a cruising fleet.

Racing is a lot of work, it isn't for lazing and relaxing. With the average age increasing among beach cat sailors, I was just wondering if there was an interest.

EC seems like a lot of work no matter how you approach it.



Posted By: Jake

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
Not at all. The rally thing caught my eye because it attracted a lot of people. I was thinking "Round Sanibel" or some such; Hiram's with a cruising fleet.

Racing is a lot of work, it isn't for lazing and relaxing. With the average age increasing among beach cat sailors, I was just wondering if there was an interest.

EC seems like a lot of work no matter how you approach it.





We tried that a few times at our club but a race usually breaks out.

You need to find a way to to provide incentive so people chill out and "cruise"....which isn't in some of our blood. Stops for food, etc. Poker Run....these things aren't that attractive to me but it's an observation.
Posted By: catandahalf

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 06:32 PM

Get together with some sailing buds that cruise their Farrier and Corsair trimarans and organize a "Rendezvous Island Hop."
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 06:41 PM

Just curious! Lot's of things like this for monohulls and bigger multis but it just doesn't seem to be a beach cat thing.

Happy Thanksgiving.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 06:47 PM

I think Round Texel comes close, sure there is some serious racing but also a lot of sailors who do the round just for fun and have a good time.

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 07:19 PM

I thought the definition of "cruising" was to have no set agenda/destination/timeframe...

I agree that there are several crusing divisions in most yacht/sail clubs (paper and traditional) which may have a similar schedule to which you could participate.

I recall the GCSC has several Naples/Ft. Myers overnighters where they anchor out near that pass we sailed to the first time... BBQ at the park, sunset drinks, easy sailing...
Posted By: Opher

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 07:38 PM

I participated in the ARC several years ago on a 52' cruising cat. It was a fantastic experience, 16 days at sea with almost nothing in sight. But make no mistake, 2 boats are a race, 225 are a big race, even if it's called a rally.

We have an annual event in Israel whch combines distance racing with "cruising". About 40 cats of all kinds, from getaways to f20Cs, race North about 40 miles on Friday. Since many of the participants are not racers, we have 2 escort ribs, a medic, a standby tow vehicle and a couple of gates to ensure people don't stray too far from shore. We are greeted with beers, have a big barbecue and sleep in tents on the beach after the prizegiving ceremony. Saturday is a more relaxed sail back, mostly because we don't have an official start - boats head out as the wind fills in. Some families join in for the evening, and many have kids sail along on the way back. It is always a fantastic event, not too difficult for the casual sailors, a full on race for the racers
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 08:17 PM

I was just curious why it doesn't seem to work for beach cats. I guess rum would help...
Posted By: daniel_t

Re: Rally? - 11/23/11 09:10 PM

I think Opher's comment was the key. No fixed start, no start line. Just tell everybody to gather at point A, leave at about X o'clock and dinner will be ready at point B when they get there. Sure some people will push to stay ahead of their buddies, but few will want to stray too far away from the pack when there is no incentive to do so.

One idea I had was a kite procession. Everybody who enters is given a cheep kite that they must fly while sailing. The course would be along a public beach or something to make it interesting for bystanders, and the boats would be expected to stay in a line ahead formation. I think it would be fun and generate a lot of interest among non-sailers. A recruiting tool.
Posted By: Luiz

Re: Rally? - 11/24/11 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by Opher

About 40 cats... race North about 40 miles on Friday...


Going 40 miles north from Sdot Yam it's close to be an international race. Why not Tel-Aviv to Haifa? The name certainly sounds more atractive for sponsors.
Posted By: Opher

Re: Rally? - 11/24/11 09:27 PM

We do indeed sail to Achziv, which is a couple of miles south of the Lebanese border. There is a good beach there for landing and camping with all the facilities. We leave from Sdot Yam since that is the largest cat club in Israel, about 130 boats mast up, great beach reasonably protected from the waves and good facilities. The Tel Aviv cats usually sail up a week or 2 earlier and join us for the rally north.
Another element that encourages more sailors to join in is that we take care of logistics, for example a van takes peoples bags and tents back and forth while we sail, all food is purchased by th organizers etc. We have a safety and preparation seminar for new participants, post checklists for boat preparation, provide each boat with a laminated list of phone numbers and a map, coordinate passage through a restricted naval area etc. The combination of a fun happening, good organization and increased safety measures encourages many sailors to join what would normally be beyond their comfort zone - which is, by the way, exactly what the ARC does so very well
Posted By: Luiz

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Opher
We leave from Sdot Yam since that is the largest cat club in Israel, about 130 boats mast up, great beach reasonably protected from the waves and good facilities.


Just out of curiosity, how much does a normal house cost in Sdot Yam?
Posted By: Opher

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 03:11 PM

Literally priceless - It is a Kibbutz, a communal community, you have to be a member of the kibbutz to live there, can't just buy a house. Plenty of nice small towns nearby, I live 15 minutes away on the southern edge of the Carmel hills
Posted By: JJ_

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 04:49 PM

Quote
Another element that encourages more sailors to join in is that we take care of logistics, for example a van takes peoples bags and tents back and forth while we sail, all food is purchased by th organizers etc. We have a safety and preparation seminar for new participants, post checklists for boat preparation, provide each boat with a laminated list of phone numbers and a map, coordinate passage through a restricted naval area etc. The combination of a fun happening, good organization and increased safety measures encourages many sailors to join what would normally be beyond their comfort zone - which is, by the way, exactly what the ARC does so very well
If preparations are made and the winds don't show, then what? Rum is boring.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 05:04 PM

Black tie croquet.

http://www.cmcs-sail.org/ These folks have a raft up, picnic, and black tie croquet party every year. The black tie is made from garbage bags and the accoutrements are about what you would expect. Sometimes a coconut gets substituted for a ball...
Posted By: Luiz

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Opher
It is a Kibbutz, you have to be a member of the kibbutz to live there, can't just buy a house.


If one buys a nearby house, can he have his boat at the club you mentioned or is the club a kibutz? How much for a house nearby?
Posted By: orphan

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 06:11 PM

Quote
Rum is boring.

Sacrilege !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted By: Opher

Re: Rally? - 11/25/11 08:53 PM

We set the rally at the begining of summer, when winds are reasonably predictable, and have never yet had to cancel because of weather. In fact, we have had more trouble with strong winds than no wind...
Luiz, are you planning on coming to Israel? The club is open to all cats for a fee. There are also wind surfing, kiting and kayaking clubs, as well as a dinghy racing club which consistently puts out world class sailors.
House prices vary, of course, but several hundred thousand $ is normal
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Rally? - 11/26/11 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by JJ_
Rum is boring.


You're doing it wrong.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Rally? - 11/26/11 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Originally Posted by JJ_
Rum is boring.


You're doing it wrong.


No sh!t. If you need lessons we can help. We are here to help you help yourself.
Posted By: DVL

Re: Rally? - 11/26/11 03:57 AM

Back on topic.

One year a group sailed to a campground, drank all night (Rum). They left at noon the next day to return to the start.

Another time we had three cats go from Muskegon to Ludington on Lake Michigan. Made it to Silver Lake before the wind and waves flipped one guy, he said enough. Rule was, one person stops, the others stop and the sailing is done, for reasons of safety. We want to do that again. The biggest problem is ground crew for most people.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Rally? - 11/26/11 04:12 AM

We used to start in Ft. Liquordale and finish in Va. beach. That was a fun "rally".
Posted By: Luiz

Re: Rally? - 11/26/11 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by Opher

...are you planning on coming to Israel? The club is open to all cats for a fee. There are also wind surfing, kiting and kayaking clubs, as well as a dinghy racing club which consistently puts out world class sailors.
House prices vary, of course, but several hundred thousand $ is normal


I need space, as most people in America (the continent). Claustrophoby hits hard when opposing borders of a country are visible from the same point.

I always check prices everywhere, one never knows where will be the best place to live in the future. Looks like housing and land prices did not raise that much, I expected higher prices by the sea. Is it due to the kibutz or what?

Fair winds,
Luiz
Posted By: arbo06

Re: Rally? - 11/27/11 03:10 AM

my best memories are of the Hobie lifestyle. No racing, family, beach, grills and coolers. Sailing was fun, not the only reason to be there.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Rally? - 11/27/11 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by arbo06
my best memories are of the Hobie lifestyle. No racing, family, beach, grills and coolers. Sailing was fun, not the only reason to be there.


Eric... I will bet a nickle that those days were not scheduled, planned or organized. Each day you dropped in the party was a bit different. The once popular sailing beach (Sandy Point on the Chesapeake) is still open but it is a rare event to see a recreational sailor trailer in and go sailing... much less the casual sailing scene of the past.

Today... it is all about schedules. Would you elevate a beach party day on you calender and/ or replace a race day? Would you choose to organize a beach party or a race day?

IME, the sailors that do the organizing, coordinating and fleet building are hard core racers. These folks (me for one have been there done that) would not trade a race day for a beach party (much less organize one). Moreover, all of the rec sailors in my club on Hobie Getaways or old Hobies and Prindles are family oriented and they would not schedule a beach party over a family day either.

What venues (public beaches or even private clubs) still exist where casual beach party... drop in for some recreational sailing is the general order on a weekend in season???

Back in the day... Notable places for a casual beach party sailing scene were
Barn Island in Connecticut
Heckshir State Park on Long Island
The Jersey Shore Communities. (boats on the ocean beach)
Sandy Point State Park Maryland
Dunedin Causeway in Florida

Do they still exist... what's the scene like this past season?
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 12:04 PM

The best beaches in FL have come under scrutiny of the local town fathers, who have seen beaches and boats of all types as a money a making opportunity, by tacking on boat registration fees, parking fees, etc. and not allowing sailboats or jet ski's or kites or windsurfers into what is left of the public beaches. You have the 'liability issues' too, what happens if a cat runs over a kid in the water?

The overdevelopment (think huge Condo's instead of mom'n pop motels) of the beaches caused a lot of good public beaches to go private as well, which reduced the amount of launch sites. It's tough to find a place on a 'public' beach to park a trailer, set up and launch, without getting a ticket for...something.
Posted By: daniel_t

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 01:07 PM

Our community has a sailing center. It costs about $400 a year for the entire family and they have over 100 boats, paddle-boards and kayaks to choose from, along with "fun" races once a month and cookouts on race day. It also has a strong youth team. They also have cheep, mast up, storage.

Barely 20% of the people who are at the center actually get out on the water. Most seem to like to hang out on the verandah, chat and watch the boats from shore (especially this time of year.) I guess this is the kind of thing Eric is reminiscing about?
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 02:58 PM

Dan, where is Palm Harbor, is it near Stuart? Or is that Palm Bay?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 03:20 PM

Palm Bay is north of Sebastian on the Atlantic Side.

Posted By: Timbo

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 04:43 PM

So...where is Palm Harbor? Too damn many Palm...this and Palm that, in Florida!

Just like too many Peachtree's in Atlanta!
Posted By: ksurfer2

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 04:52 PM

Palm Harbor is just outside of Dunedin.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 05:04 PM

Are you guys telling me that Dunedin has gone the way of Hobie Beach in Miami?

Posted By: daniel_t

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 05:04 PM

The sailing center is in Clearwater. http://clearwatercommunitysailing.org/

Lately, we have had Vipers in the water, and one Capricorn. The center has a Hobie Tiger for members as well.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by daniel_t
They also have cheep, mast up, storage

Have you looked into mast up storage costs? It's about 1200/year (including the mandatory sailing center membership) for an 18' boat. thats not cheap to me.

Not 100% sure what you guys are referring to with the Hobie life, but here in Dunedin there are a dozen(s) of cats out every weekend (except winter, then it's just a few of us die-hards), we 2 nights of mast up storage (with $100 annual permit), no beach fees, and 1/2 dozen organized races per year. I know this is rare, and thats why i live here.

I am not knocking the community center but they don't serve us (cat sailors) well at all. The costs are prohibitive, the center does nothing to promote the sport or include cats in their races (with a few exceptions) and the mono-skipper i raced with a few times was so unhappy with the PRO's they moved their races to a bridge and have their own on water officiating.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
I wasn't thinking about racing beach cats in blue water. What I meant was; has anyone tried organizing a beach cat get together NOT centered on a racing event? Just a schmooze and sail...

we do it every weekend here.
We just spent 10 days camping on spoil islands.

Posted By: daniel_t

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 08:14 PM

MN3,

The last apartment I rented charged $600 per year for boat storage (not mast up,) so yes, $1200 doesn't sound too bad. That said,
if I had my own boat, I probably wouldn't store it at the sailing center. The reason I want my own boat is so I can sail it other places (including Dunedin Causeway,) so mast up storage would be a bit of a pain. I don't consider what the guys do at the causeway "mast up storage" though. It's more like "leave the boat on the beach and hope the tourists don't bother it too much" storage. It's on par with leaving your boat in a busy park.

As for the Sailing Center not serving cat sailors... I have to agree to some extent although they are trying to get better. They have plenty of cats (Waves, Getaways, a H16, H17, and a Tiger,) but the space to sail in is really too limited for a Tiger or F16. I watch the F18s and F16s and by the time they have the spinnaker up and drawing well, they have to take it down.

My goal is to get an F16, keep it at home and sail in Dunedin, Clearwater, and maybe compete in Hiram's Haul one day. I will still keep my CCSC membership though. The community there is grate.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 08:34 PM

Since you're in that area, you owe it to yourself to add a few more races to your schedule... DIYC has a good bunch of them, as does TBCSA and Sarasota Sailing Squadron.

You'd be able to sail/race almost every other weekend during season within 1 hour's drive from your house.

1 1/2 hours and you could do the Clermont/Eustis stuff, too. I know a lot of those guys run to DIYC/Dunedin for races often.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by daniel_t
I don't consider what the guys do at the causeway "mast up storage" though. It's more like "leave the boat on the beach and hope the tourists don't bother it too much" storage. It's on par with leaving your boat in a busy park.

As for the Sailing Center not serving cat sailors... I have to agree to some extent although they are trying to get better. They have plenty of cats (Waves, Getaways, a H16, H17, and a Tiger,) but the space to sail in is really too limited for a Tiger or F16. I watch the F18s and F16s and by the time they have the spinnaker up and drawing well, they have to take it down.


I agree, we don't have mast up storage in dunedin... but 2 nights a week is great (they were going to make it 2 nights a month). I also agree we take a risk leaving our gear there, but so far the worst to happen is sand on the cats, and the occasional beer can (ok we have found a few other gross items) but for 20+ cats guys that have permits (or dont), to not get our gear messed with year after year, is pretty damn great. Sure couldn't do that in NY or Los Angeles.

I am not 100% sure what you are saying about "space to sail in is really too limited ", we do spin runs from Dunedin to Bellare and the gulf is pretty damn huge (are you guys not permitted to take the cats in the gulf right around the corner?).

Again i am not knocking the center, it has produced some Olympic sailors and i like to see the sport being promoted but i also think the center is CRAZY for taking the opti fleets under the sand key bridge into the pass. That pass has serious tides, currents, and when all the conditions are right (or wrong) it is a washing machine in there.
Posted By: daniel_t

Re: Rally? - 11/28/11 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by MN3
I am not 100% sure what you are saying about "space to sail in is really too limited ", we do spin runs from Dunedin to Bellare and the gulf is pretty damn huge (are you guys not permitted to take the cats in the gulf right around the corner?).


Correct. We are not allowed to take the center's boats out of Clearwater bay (basically we can't go under any bridges or cross the intercoastal. There are also lots of shallow spots in the area that we can sail in. I took the Tiger out once and was very frustrated because the speed of the boat didn't mesh well with the limited space to sail in.

But to get back on thread/topic. The center has a very "hang out" sort of feel with lots of socializing and regular cookouts. We are having a sunset sail on Dec 10th out to the nearby island where we plan on having a bonfire.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 02:23 AM

Originally Posted by daniel_t
The center has a very "hang out" sort of feel with lots of socializing and regular cookouts. We are having a sunset sail on Dec 10th out to the nearby island where we plan on having a bonfire.

Everyone was extremely nice when i participated in the Carlyle races and very nice when i raced on day sailers a few times
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 12:41 PM

I like Carlyle. CCSC has hosted Alter Cup and Area D several times.
Posted By: catman

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
I wasn't thinking about racing beach cats in blue water. What I meant was; has anyone tried organizing a beach cat get together NOT centered on a racing event? Just a schmooze and sail...


You missed Thanksgiving week on snake island. Sailors, campers, fires, fried turkey (5 this year), blackened red fish, direct TV, on and on. 19 people for thanksgiving and 35 for Friday dinner.

Our next large organized trip will be Memorial day on snake island. We've had 100 people and live music there. Anyone is welcome. If you like I'll remind you when it gets closer.

For us this is a lifestyle not a sport.
Posted By: wildtsail

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 06:49 PM

I don't live in Florida but I spent 2 weeks with 2 F18s and a trailer with a third at CCSC last November over Thanksgiving. We kept them all there for less than $100, it was a steal. They even gave us a key to the gate (which I still have!) They were super accomodating and friendly.
We sailed the boats everywhere, under the bridges, up the intercoastal up to Dudedin, out into the Gulf numerous times, and then sailed from Clearwater to Sarasota. We have plenty of water to sail everywhere.
I've also sailed regattas out of there a few years back where it seemed very well run.
I don't know what the membership is but $1,200 is a steal for year round mast up storage. I've paid $650 for a similar facility up here for 5 months. Our F18 fleet in New England is cheap but I'm sure most of our fleet would store their boats if it was $1,200 a year.
I understand what you guys are saying about Dunedin though, $100 is a good deal to sail there all year. But leaving a newer boat like an F18 is quite a bit riskier and I'd rather pay extra for the fenced in gate and security camera any day of the week.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 07:00 PM

Please put me on your reminder list, sounds like fun.
Posted By: catman

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 07:00 PM

PIC's


T week pics
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 07:03 PM

The family membership is around $400. The storage is another $800 (depending on boat size).

The reason I don't keep my cat there isn't completely the money, but the people and attitude we have in Dunedin. On most weekends we have about 10 cats that sail together and island hop.

we have new and old f16's f18, cars, unlocked sail boxes unlocked cars and even the occasional car/truck with the windows and even doors wide open (accidentally) with little problem. This year i had an cop come up to me to tell me the car next to me left it's doors open and she closed them at 1am. I have Friends that leave their blocks on the cat, even radios... and little problem.

I am certainly not saying we are crime free, but it has a pretty good track record and history.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Rally? - 11/29/11 07:07 PM

Nice pics catman. You may have captured the last shot of Zack's USA spin (ever). He has gone to the German team for his new spin
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