US multihull championship

from SA.
252 boats registered for EUROCAT.... What a regatta!!!

F18 - 87 entries.
C1 Division - 67 entries (26 of these are VIPERS... and at least another 5 F16's) (All other spin classes on SCHRS)
C2 Division - 84 entries (All sloops on SCHRS)
C3 Division - 14 entries (All junior boats on SCHRS)

Would US sailors be interested in a national championship like this?

I'm game for most anything.

No offense... but that answer won't cut it.... The EU sailors put this event on their calendar and make it happen.

Would US sailors put this kind of event on their schedule and make it happen?

I'm just one person. I'll do my best to support anything catamaran sailors, as a whole, can get excited about.

But, Yes I would support that format.

This is my personal insanity... obviously, I think it has merit... and I love reporting the eurocat numbers at every turn..

BUT... the overwhelming local feedback I get is ... NO... a handicap championship is simply not interesting to me. Would not support such a thing.
So... what's the point of view outside my bit of the world?

sounds like a scaled up version of T-winds in the Keys...

Except that there is very little handicap racing at Tradewinds.

or spring fever for that matter

I think CRAM and CRAW (Michigan and Wisconsin) are the last two regions that have a big handicap fleet (plus split out one design results)

Distance race are not included....

Just Curious... any other regions that have a routine (or large) handicap start in the US for buoys???

I thought Open spin and open non-spin were handicap classes... maybe I didn't see how they were classified.

I'm almost certain that if enough boats of any type showed up, they'd find a way to score them appropriately. I know it sounds weird, but some of us show up to sail and aren't as worried about what happens on the podium as much as what happens on the beach, course, and bar later...

If I dropped as much coin on those new shiny boats (or lessons/training) maybe I'd worry more about dishware and who's taking it home..

I may be mistaken, but I believe C2 Division is F18, so they are racing on line, not handicap. And any class with more than 20 boats gets results broken out separately.

To answer your question I would certainly support this kind of event and made a similar point in my survey response.

BTW I'm from CRAW so I'm used to racing D-PN. Up here we love it. Sure it has it's limitations, but I think it's more fun for everyone to be racing everyone else. And we're all about having fun.

While I'm at it (sorry thread hijack, but since you mentioned CRAW/CRAM...), Catfight/Racine this year will be a three day CRAW/CRAM Portsmouth event, Aug 10-12, with optional 2-day scoring like Spring Fever.

And it gets better...The preceding weekend, Aug. 4-5 is the Al Henning Memorial Regatta run by the Racine Yacht Club and all cats are invited. Plus Robbie Daniels will be running a clinic at Racine Tues-Thurs in the week between these two events. So in the space of nine days, there is going to be a whole lot of sailing happening on the beautiful waters of Lake Michigan.

Is there even 250 active catamaran sailors in the US?

And Ontario where we are getting up to 50 boats a regatta...

We divvy up the boats by high portsmouth and low portsmouth with high being all the non-spin boats (except A class and C class) and low portsmouth all the spin boats +A&C..This format works well.

Also one additional thing for you to consider is having one of the days a long distance race, maybe 30-40 miles..

I'd be interested in a Raid/distance type event on inland water. Maybe on the day prior to the weekend race. Jus' sayin'...

yes exactly what I would recommend.

There are more than that number of active racers in the Hobie 16 class alone.

As long as threads are getting 'jacked, should mention that there will be more Lk Michigan goodness in August. CRAM will be holding a 3-day event Aug 24-26. Friday will be a short distance race (~25miles round trip) followed by standard buoy racing Sat. and Sun. Venue is Muskegon.

We'll likely split the fleet for the distance race - slower boats getting 40-60min head start.

We're using this as an outreach event and are expecting a large Portsmouth fleet turnout in addition to the usual F18, F17 and A fleets.

It's the same as Tradewinds, but with a distance race by handicap mixed in. It's a tuneup to see where teams stand and what they need to work on during their training for worlds.

I guess I should rephrase. Is there even 250 catamaran sailors that go anywhere?

And it'd be more like 500 sailors as well.

This format exists across the US and is hosted by many weekend regattas already.

If you're asking if I would attend a DPN/SCHRS championship with a $50 a head upcharge instead of my fleets national championship the answer is no. However, if the event was SCHRS and I had access to a Viper (104) and the event was in my backyard I'd consider it.

Dave, you'd miss that two feet like Tom Sizemore misses beating up hookers.

I've been missing the 2 feet since I sold my 20 in 05' and yes being 4 feet short takes some getting used to but I have done it before so it wouldn't be a totally foreign experience.

I think the right question to ask is... how many racers will attend their NA's.
My round number estimate is:

With 70 teams. (50 F18 and 20 F16) teams on spin boats in 2011. 100 boats on sloops (60 H16, 20 TheMightyHobie18 and 20 H20, 10 Sharks) and 100 teams racing single handed (50 A class, 20 H17’s, 20 Waves, 10 Isotopes, 10 NF17’s)

So... that is about 250 teams racing at NA's

(If we could get them all to one event... that would be a hell of championship.)

Run two courses

The party course- Open to anyone on any boat, a variety of scoring schemes, the more the better.

The Alter Cup course. Strictly limited to top sailors.

Dave

I think everyone would agree that sailors primary focus will be their OD NAs.

So.. Would you attend a second "national" championship (3-4 days over a weekend) in your OD class.

The concern is that the Host of the NA's will get pissed at another national event sucking off sailors who opt for the closer drive of the two regattas.

(The answer could really depend on the OD class you are talking about as well)

PS... for 2012... the option is One Design on F16's... charters should be available.

Exactly!
In order to attract 250 sailors in the US the radius of travel gets pretty large. There has to be an extrodinarily good reason for everyone to want to attend.

At Carnac they have a lot of sailors within a resonable drive (especialy by US standards of distance) The F18 class has made it their tuning and early season shake down as DUH points out. The rest are playing a huge game of handicap racing. Sweetheart rating for certain designs and all the politics/bs of handicap sailing you can find permeating this whole forum.

If I still was racing the only way I would consider this would be to attend a race to practice big fleet starts and they had better have a huge party. As a championship level event - no way. For this kind of event I would have been very unlikely willing to travel more than 6-8 hrs even back when gas was cheep.

There are 2 big open races in the South now (Tradewinds and Spring Fever) Long way from 250 at either of these. Both were down in attendance this year but you can see from the results that the F classes were not. The fall out in attendance came from the handicap guys. This kind of shouts that pulling a big handcap open event will have a hard time flying.

FYI, Tradewinds does have handicap classes.., albeit pretty small the last couple of years. Seems the box classes are growing and dpn racing is declining.
I would love it if 250 boats registered.
Rick

It's always been my fantasy to take it one step further and have a big beachcat regatta as part of Annapolis Race Week (Labor Day weekend & fleets race anywhere between 5 to 2 days, most Fri-Sun?). You already have a huge sailor turn-out with the monohulls and a big party that is organized on the docks of downtown Annapolis. AYC & CBYRA takes care of most of the logistical overhead. We would have to coordinate the beachcate race course and scoring. Sandy Point State Park already has a designated launch beach.

Sign me up!

Agreed.



I would not attend a second national championship, that doesn't make sense. But, if the championship offered a completely different format that isn't currently available at our weekend regattas and national championships I would attend. For example, if the format is match racing, team racing or the prior Alter Cup Championship format I would be very interested in attending that event (assuming I qualified). The good thing about a team racing championship is it could easily support a BYOB format and would NOT require formulas to be applied.



I wouldn't view a DPN/SCHRS regatta as a distraction to our National/North American Championship. Those local to the DPN/SCHRS regatta would probably use the regatta the same way the teams at Carnac used the regatta, as a tune up event. In the end the number of teams lost to the DPN/SCHRS championship would probably only be a handful and it wouldn't be enough to get in a twist about, IMO.

If you have a BYOB event, what prevents retaining the older format?

Alternating fleet races allows time to return to the beach, make repairs, tune etc. You just don't have the craziness of switching boats.

I am all for a Team Race event... we've actually been having discussions about trying to make one happen on the Charles River (awesome amphitheater for sailing!). Would probably run the event out of the MIT sailing pavilion, but launching is an issue. Spent all weekend umpiring the NEISA team race championships- heck of a regatta with the top three teams ending the event tied at 13-6 after two days of racing!

Here's a question. Who the hell wants to deal wither the hassle of having an extra 200 boats on the water that you aren't racing against.

Good point.... much better to have a race of one boat... Saves on the scorekeeper!

I think the same thing 50 boats is plenty to race against. When the fleets get to 100 they split them up anyways as A and B fleets. It seams the more boats the less racing you get. I remember going to the Mega and it was fun but little racing and long lines and lots of waiting and a lot of money. I guess you can tell I am getting old and set in my ways.

Bit of a **** storm shaping up over here: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=134396

Some complaints about organization as well as an interesting contribution from Bundy. [post #1745 page 70]

Sh!t fight is over stating it a bit Pete. Looks like the typical post event complaints you get from a large handicap regatta to me. I'm confident an overwhelming majority enjoyed the event and accepted it for what it was.

Helen's article was interesting.

Some serious handicap BS and a very thick layer of manufacturer generated fluff. Everyone will walk out of this with a different view I am sure. You cannot look at a class or results and see squat. Heavy boats like the Viper are running their own handicap, playing the ratings game. Put team drivers on them like Bundy and then continue to spout off about being the best – give it a break.

With that many people at an established event like this, I am sure it was blast even if they got skunked on weather.

Mini, I'm in 100% agreement and your observations come across loud and clear even through the internet but this is nothing new for large events and it really is part of game which is one my biggest complaints with handicap events. The amount of unsubstantiated boasting that goes on is a real turn off for those that can see through it. Helen's article should really read: The help did exactly what we paid him to do but we're going to claim it was the equipment.

Yes, it is a pitty that the boats used different ratings, however the boys and gals on the water know what they real story is. The rest is just PR fluff.




You can see these belgian boys in the following youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxft_lCDYzA

They are coached by Sebastian Godefroid and they show fine form. Note how far off Bundy they were, or rather how NOT far off they were. I guess this is the team to watch for at the next F16 Europeans / worlds

I was really responding to Dave Lennard. It hadn't occurred to me that bigger isn't necessarily better.

I am curious about this Raid thingey. What's that all about?

We are trying a distance race in San Fran Bay this weekend With the San Francisco Yacht Club. Saturday racing on bouys and then a "Tour the Bay" event on Sunday. F-18 and A-cat and 18 skiffs. Kind of a short Raid.