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Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18

Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 04:18 PM

Hello guys,

my sailing partner and myself are finally considering an F18 for real.
Budgets are limited of course and I have a strong inclination towards an older Infusion MK-1 and putting the rest of the money into sails myself. But I would value some input on which "old" F18 would be the most bang for the money when considering the following.

1: Reliability in the structure (minimizes breakages)
2: Speed
3: Ease of handling

Budget for the platform + trailer: EUR6600 / US$8300


Thoughts and opinions?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 04:39 PM

We just went through this decision process myself last year. Some might argue that the latest hull shapes have a lot to do with the speed potential of the Formula 18s, but I believe most of that potential comes from the mast and sails. From the original Nacra F18 and Hobie Tiger, we've seen a pretty dramatic change in the mast weight and profiles that were coupled with sail design. I think both of these boats would continue to be competitive if they had the newer mast and sail design...but I don't think the math will work out in your favor if you include all of that extra cost.

That said, two of the boats on your list have seen only relatively minor changes from the older version to now and I think are the best value. The older Nacra Infusion and the AHPC Capricorn. Both of these boats have the latest mast and sail configuration and would probably just need a sail update to be completely competitive again. The biggest difference in these boats is the SLDBs (stupidly long daggerboards) which, in my opinion, add only very slightly to the boat's performance.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 04:47 PM

Hi Jake,

thanks for the comments. I also subscribe to the thought that the rig (sail+masts and their config) is the critical point. Hence my weighting of the question smile

Getting a new mast tube is not that expensive and I am a qualified tinkerer to my sailing partners dismay and relief.. New sails are a given anyway, but they might very well be homemade. (hush)

Considering that you have competed on the NACRA F18, it would be good to get your thoughts on the platforms specifics compared to the newest designs.
Posted By: wildtsail

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 05:03 PM

The infusion and the cap don't belong on the same list. Yea the cap was cutting edge at the time and is just like a new boat from the water up, but the hulls do not belong to the current generation of boats which started with the infusion. I also don't think you'd find many of the two at a similar price point.
Overall the infusion should be more competitive, however if you are not sailing in big conditions (waves and wind) very often the Cap is a great choice and can still be an absolute weapon especially in light to medium and flatter water.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by wildtsail
The infusion and the cap don't belong on the same list. Yea the cap was cutting edge at the time and is just like a new boat from the water up, but the hulls do not belong to the current generation of boats which started with the infusion. I also don't think you'd find many of the two at a similar price point.
Overall the infusion should be more competitive, however if you are not sailing in big conditions (waves and wind) very often the Cap is a great choice and can still be an absolute weapon especially in light to medium and flatter water.


The list was set up based on boats I could see on the internet within my budget. In that regard the Capricorn, Hawk, the NACRAs etc all have a place on the list smile
Point about the Cap taken!
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 05:49 PM

You forgot to tell us at what weight you will be racing.
I like the Infusion but I think the Cap's build quality is better.
Dont think you can go wrong with either really, it depends which is in better state etc.
The Infusion is a bit easier to sail though, especially downwind.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 05:51 PM

Weight.. Obviously overweight.. Both my sailing partner and myself are big boys. As in big boys with scars in the face which you dont want to mess with wink

Funny that the Cap and Infusion get all the attention so far. What about the Tiger? And the Hawk was always mentioned favourably 5 years ago as the hidden gem?
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 08:00 PM

Tough question, few straight answers. I think Jake summed it up best with his statements on the rig. Most Tiger's command more than they are really worth (at least asking price, $1 or $2K more often gets you into an early Infusion), and the Tiger rig and foil package is very dated at this point. Don't get me wrong, in the hands of a competitive sailor it will still put up a good showing but the boards are the lowest aspect ratio around and the mast is a teardrop section, not a wing mast. I may be wrong on some of these points, since there were several versions of the Tiger and some have been upgraded with more modern foils and sails.

In direct comparison between an original Nacra F18 and an original Capricorn, the Cap was faster uphill but suffered going downwind. I'm 100% confident the differences were sailor ability, rig tuning and sail choice. I would stay away from an original Nacra F18. The Infusion, as mentioned above, has a modern hull shape and should perform well. It also has amongst the most hull volume of the used boats on the market (more so than the Capricorn and better placement than the Tiger) so is a good choice for the heavier teams. I voted for the Infusion over the Cap primarily because you mentioned big boys. That vote stands if you race in heavier air conditions as well. Otherwise the Cap is a good second choice.

I have no comment about the Hawk as I've never seen nor raced one.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 09:03 PM

Rolf, you might be interested in this F18 that just came on the market:
http://watersport.marktplaats.nl/ca...er-snelle-f18-in-wedstrijd-conditie.html

Its a very unique cat that is still very competitive and comes packed with spares.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 09:13 PM

Thanks Tony,

we have heaps of time, not targeting to purchase before fall smile

And the link did not work, which is a good thing!
Posted By: John Williams

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/29/12 10:46 PM

I've only ever heard people who never owned or raced a Capricorn recommend against one. I loved both of mine - great boat, and particularly great for the money.
Posted By: stampede

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 02:47 AM

You should take the conditions of your preferred sailing location into consideration. In your profile you are saying "NORWAY west coast" That's the coastline to the open ocean with a lot of rocks just below the waterline, right? The so called "updated" newer plattforms with flat bottom create a lot of lift and lay high on the water compared to the more rounded shape like Tiger and Hawk. So low aspect Daggers, rounded bottom etc. may show some advantage on these conditions. The Tiger is a very robust boat and still competitive in these conditions which are different from lake water racing which is mainly flat water. My crew and i are big boys too. we are aroung 100lbs overweighted compared to average F18 crew weight. This is far more impacting your performance than boat design. Just my 0.02
cheers from germany
Posted By: waynemarlow

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 12:29 PM

Buy an older shape Nacra 20, the only boat that is value for money for the bigger guys.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 02:17 PM

Conditions vary wildly in this place, and any racing we do will have very variable conditions as well smile

Wayne, the only action there is in this place is in the F18 class. The Tornado would be our clear choice if racing was not our motivation. The T was my first love with catamarans and it is a really nice experience to sail one. Marström tornados are sold for really good prices now!
We sail at 180kg, but that is just a fact and not a decision point when it comes to choosing a class. F18 is the only class with some action.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 05:35 PM

Only 29 participants in the poll??? Come on guys! smile
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 05:46 PM

For big guys the Infusion is a good choice, loads of bouyancy.
Good idea to wait with purchasing till end of the year, that gives you plenty of time to lose 30 kilos! laugh
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 05:55 PM

Speaking of weight loss.. I am off to do a jog up the nearest hill. Seriously! See you after my heart attack wink

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jendemsfjellet


And this is where I live: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jendemsfjellet

And the nearest town with a sailing presence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molde
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Only 29 participants in the poll??? Come on guys! smile


"new C2" wasn't an option....
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 08:22 PM

That belongs under "other"...
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 10:19 PM

I'd say its still not an option as its outside of your stated budget.

My opinion is to go with either the Cap, or the infusion. Those are the two I'd be looking at if I were in the market for a used F18. I'm curious what peoples thoughts are with a lower volume boat with a big boy team. Time for another thread when not tapping **** out on my phone.....
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/30/12 11:19 PM

At 370 combined I still like my Tiger but having sailed the other boats the newer designs tend to carry the weight better.
The biggest thing on the boat is the "Tiller Nut" and the "Sheet Monkey" no matter what the design.
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 09:20 AM

Take all the boats in the list downwind in a force 5-6 and you will want the Infusion!
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
Take all the boats in the list downwind in a force 5-6 and you will want the Infusion!



That is the type of feedback that makes decisions easier. Thanks.
Posted By: macca

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 12:24 PM

I think as an all round boat in that price range the Infusion is a good option, certainly the capricorn is another good one to look at.

both boats have strong and weak points, It depends on the prevailing conditions where you sail.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by TEAMVMG
Take all the boats in the list downwind in a force 5-6 and you will want the Infusion!


Based on my last Tradewinds regatta sailing with Krantz on my V1 Infusion vs. the newer C2 (flat water, 15-18k breeze), the infusion seems to have slightly better speed upwind and the C2 slightly better speed downwind. I'm gauging this against my performance with Robbie Daniels and Tomko on their C2s. I could out pace Daniels to A-mark on the first leg but would lose more than I gained on the downwind...initially I learned a lot watching him pass me downhill and discovered some errors I was making with my mainsail trim but, once corrected, it still wasn't enough to keep him from gaining more downwind on me than I would gain on him upwind. When we got off the line well, though, Tomko would usually slightly beat us to A out of glorious tacking execution (sight to behold) but I had nothing on him downwind...of course, sail condition and technique play into everything and I'm no pro. With the exception of my raggedy jib, my other sails are new and I have no idea what condition the sails were in on Robbie's boat. Tomko's looked to be pretty spanking new.

With regards to the original Capricorn and the Infusion, I would say that the Infusion is slightly more resistant to putting a bow in downwind but I've only sailed the original Capricorn once (never on the C2). They're both perfectly fast enough that the skill on board will be 98% of the win factor.

That said, after having to do some major structural repairs caused by poor build quality on my 3 year old Infusion, sailing a couple of Capricorns, seeing the Capricorn go through an Alter Cup (as well as the sailing the AHPC Viper in one), I can say that the AHPC brand gets a big thumbs up from me in build and fitment quality.

I've owned Nacras since I started sailing but, if I was in the market again, I would need to go back through my photos of all the work I had to do to fix the poorly mounted daggerboard trunk in my Infusion before I decided what to buy again.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
Speaking of weight loss.. I am off to do a jog up the nearest hill. Seriously! See you after my heart attack wink

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jendemsfjellet


And this is where I live: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jendemsfjellet

And the nearest town with a sailing presence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molde


Neat pictures, Rolf. As my budget will likely never afford a trip to "yonder parts", if you have a photo blog or something showing life, landscape, etc. in your area, be sure to post it...

Our biggest "mountain" in Florida is about 30 meters high (Bock tower?)
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
I could out pace Daniels to A-mark on the first leg but would lose more than I gained on the downwind...


Sounds like you've been on the A-cat too long smile
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 04:30 PM

So I guess a question I have would be; has there ever been talk about setting up “Old School Class” for F-18 racing.

From this discussion; it appears that with the advancement in design many of you feel that a Hobie Tiger, NACRA F-18, etc… are not competitive platforms against the newer generation boats, but are still great boats…

Seems this would be a great way to keep the casual racer involved with out the needed expense of having to have to keep up with the latest and greatest.

Thoughts?
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 04:31 PM


Quote

Neat pictures, Rolf. As my budget will likely never afford a trip to "yonder parts", if you have a photo blog or something showing life, landscape, etc. in your area, be sure to post it...

Our biggest "mountain" in Florida is about 30 meters high (Bock tower?)



No photoblogs that I am aware of, but here is one which gives a good representation of the coastal landscape. For the mountains I need to find someplace else. This place is a narrow slip of land to live on between steep mountains up to 1900meters and the ocean.

http://elisetheoline.blogspot.com/search/label/vakre%20Fr%C3%A6na (Do NOT fall in love with the girl, she is spoken for)
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 05/31/12 07:22 PM

nice pictures.

I notice in some of the photos your apparel includes something I haven't seen in decades. I believe the English term is "Sweater" or possibly "Jacket".

smile
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/01/12 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
So I guess a question I have would be; has there ever been talk about setting up “Old School Class” for F-18 racing.

From this discussion; it appears that with the advancement in design many of you feel that a Hobie Tiger, NACRA F-18, etc… are not competitive platforms against the newer generation boats, but are still great boats…

Seems this would be a great way to keep the casual racer involved with out the needed expense of having to have to keep up with the latest and greatest.

Thoughts?


Absolutely not!!! That is the dangerous talk that is helping to divide what is left of the I20 fleet. Besides, I would bet money that if I put Tomko or Mischa on a Tiger and borrowed their boat, they would still whip me. The older boat designs are dated, no doubt, but they can still be competitive in certain conditions. As far as I know the Tiger still enjous a pretty active Tiger One Design class.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/01/12 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
Absolutely not!!! That is the dangerous talk that is helping to divide what is left of the I20 fleet. Besides, I would bet money that if I put Tomko or Mischa on a Tiger and borrowed their boat, they would still whip me. The older boat designs are dated, no doubt, but they can still be competitive in certain conditions. As far as I know the Tiger still enjous a pretty active Tiger One Design class.


This is apple to oranges as to what is happening to the Inter/NACRA 20 Class. There you have a bunch of sailors... well maybe two or three owners to be realistic, that want to pull away from the OD class and make this a Formula or an Open Class. And to be frank I don’t blame them for doing this. I ordered a new set of centbaords for my 20 back in December, and from what I understand they are still not available from NACRA….glad to see the factory is 100% behind the fleet and glad I sold the boat last March.

I do agree that you can take a top notch competitor and put them on any platform and they’ll win, and the one design option is always there, but OD is not F-18 sailing and this is where the most action is. Hell I use to watch Brad Lackey show up at our local MX races with an old tired enduro bike and smoke the likes of a Jeff Ward, Rick Johnson etc… back in the day.

Put it in this perspective, you own a 2003 F-18 with better that average sails etc… and you show up at an event where there is a bunch with the latest Infusion, Wildcat, Capicorn, newest sail designs and the other go fast bells and whistles. During the race you constantly finish at the back of the pack and you know you’re better sailor that what your race results state… What do you think is going to go through your head the next time a race comes around?

I know what you’re thinking, time to upgrade if you want to win.. Nope not an option… some of us have mortgages, college & retirement funds, and a life outside of sailing that eats up a good portion of our entertainment dollars. Or sail harder and more often…again revert back to the statement a life outside sailing!

My opinion, this would help build the class, get more turnouts for the races (think entry fees and what it cost to host a regatta) and make it fun for those of us that are casual racers.

Posted By: claus

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/02/12 01:57 PM

Hi Rolf,

I have been sailing a Tiger the last 4 years against newer designs. From my experience, it IS a very nice boat. Locally, we were quite competitive upwind, but I think we would have been a little bit faster downwind with a newer design. With waves, the Tiger just gets deaccelerated by waves hitting the rear crossbar. Also, the newer designs tack and jibe faster.

Regarding your list, I would say the Cap and the Infusion are "new" designs. The C2 improves hull shape over the Cap (which primarily reduces nose diving), the Mk2 only adds the daggerboards and some stiffness.

From your list, and having in mind your weight, I would recommend the Infusion. I have switched to a C2 and I am very happy for the moment.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/02/12 07:08 PM

Hi Claus,

thanks for your input!
It can be debated wether the Cap and Infusion can be called an "old" design. The reason I put them on the list is that they are now dropping in price to a level I can afford smile
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/02/12 09:45 PM

Rolf, what does this mean for your F16 project?
Is it finished yet?
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/03/12 11:56 AM

We put on the foredecks for both hulls last week. Planning to drill beams/beam seats and make the setup waterproof the coming week. It is still happening.

We are targeting to purchase an F18 the coming fall after the F18 season.
Posted By: fa1321

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/29/12 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
Absolutely not!!! That is the dangerous talk that is helping to divide what is left of the I20 fleet. Besides, I would bet money that if I put Tomko or Mischa on a Tiger and borrowed their boat, they would still whip me. The older boat designs are dated, no doubt, but they can still be competitive in certain conditions. As far as I know the Tiger still enjous a pretty active Tiger One Design class.


This is apple to oranges as to what is happening to the Inter/NACRA 20 Class. There you have a bunch of sailors... well maybe two or three owners to be realistic, that want to pull away from the OD class and make this a Formula or an Open Class. And to be frank I don’t blame them for doing this. I ordered a new set of centbaords for my 20 back in December, and from what I understand they are still not available from NACRA….glad to see the factory is 100% behind the fleet and glad I sold the boat last March.

I do agree that you can take a top notch competitor and put them on any platform and they’ll win, and the one design option is always there, but OD is not F-18 sailing and this is where the most action is. Hell I use to watch Brad Lackey show up at our local MX races with an old tired enduro bike and smoke the likes of a Jeff Ward, Rick Johnson etc… back in the day.

Put it in this perspective, you own a 2003 F-18 with better that average sails etc… and you show up at an event where there is a bunch with the latest Infusion, Wildcat, Capicorn, newest sail designs and the other go fast bells and whistles. During the race you constantly finish at the back of the pack and you know you’re better sailor that what your race results state… What do you think is going to go through your head the next time a race comes around?

I know what you’re thinking, time to upgrade if you want to win.. Nope not an option… some of us have mortgages, college & retirement funds, and a life outside of sailing that eats up a good portion of our entertainment dollars. Or sail harder and more often…again revert back to the statement a life outside sailing!

My opinion, this would help build the class, get more turnouts for the races (think entry fees and what it cost to host a regatta) and make it fun for those of us that are casual racers.

Yep it seems the portsmouth rating could be adjusted for allot of boats. On the last leg of the Gt300 team Chums on an I-20 was quoted as miles ahead of the of the group but was passed by Cirrus R F18. The rating system shows the I20 at .593 and the F18 at .624 yet with a few miles ahead and according the numbers a faster boat Cirrus R beat him by 13 minutes? I did not hear of any boat problems with Chums and they have sailed the GT for years and leg 4 is Lee's home port and he is very skilled sailor so what happened?
If the newer F18 were the same as older one there would be no reason to buy a new one. So people with more money have an advantage its does not mean you will take first if you buy the newest F18 sailing is a skill even an art.
I almost forgot people are having trouble locating boards for the Infusions so keep NACRA's superior customer service in mind when narrowing down your choices.
Posted By: Ventucky Red

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 06/30/12 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by fa1321
Yep it seems the Portsmouth rating could be adjusted for allot of boats. On the last leg of the Gt300 team Chums on an I-20 was quoted as miles ahead of the of the group but was passed by Cirrus R F18. The rating system shows the I20 at .593 and the F18 at .624 yet with a few miles ahead and according the numbers a faster boat Cirrus R beat him by 13 minutes? I did not hear of any boat problems with Chums and they have sailed the GT for years and leg 4 is Lee's home port and he is very skilled sailor so what happened?

If the newer F18 were the same as older one there would be no reason to buy a new one. So people with more money have an advantage its does not mean you will take first if you buy the newest F18 sailing is a skill even an art.


I am not advocating changing the Portsmouth ratings for any boat.. If the boat owners want to do this they can do so by sending the race results to US Sailing and ask for a redress on the rating as they will have the data to hack it up.

I know there is a pissing contest going on now with the NACRA 20 vs the Open 20 class to where the Open 20 folks want the same rating as the NACRA 20 while sailing with modified sail plans etc… Like I said a pissing contest!

Regarding distance racing, the DP-N rating is not the best, or to say it better, it is useless for distance racing. But this is my opinion! If I were king for the day I would look at adopting something like the SCHRS with stick adherence to the sail/boat/foil/bowsprit/rudder measurements

Getting back to where I was going with this is the possibility of setting up an Old School Class for the F-18. Maybe there is one that I don't know about, but I just don't see the need right now to convernt from a teardrop to a wing mast with the latest and greatest set of sails to be bit more equal to what is out there these days.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 07/02/12 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by fa1321
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
Absolutely not!!! That is the dangerous talk that is helping to divide what is left of the I20 fleet. Besides, I would bet money that if I put Tomko or Mischa on a Tiger and borrowed their boat, they would still whip me. The older boat designs are dated, no doubt, but they can still be competitive in certain conditions. As far as I know the Tiger still enjous a pretty active Tiger One Design class.


This is apple to oranges as to what is happening to the Inter/NACRA 20 Class. There you have a bunch of sailors... well maybe two or three owners to be realistic, that want to pull away from the OD class and make this a Formula or an Open Class. And to be frank I don’t blame them for doing this. I ordered a new set of centbaords for my 20 back in December, and from what I understand they are still not available from NACRA….glad to see the factory is 100% behind the fleet and glad I sold the boat last March.

I do agree that you can take a top notch competitor and put them on any platform and they’ll win, and the one design option is always there, but OD is not F-18 sailing and this is where the most action is. Hell I use to watch Brad Lackey show up at our local MX races with an old tired enduro bike and smoke the likes of a Jeff Ward, Rick Johnson etc… back in the day.

Put it in this perspective, you own a 2003 F-18 with better that average sails etc… and you show up at an event where there is a bunch with the latest Infusion, Wildcat, Capicorn, newest sail designs and the other go fast bells and whistles. During the race you constantly finish at the back of the pack and you know you’re better sailor that what your race results state… What do you think is going to go through your head the next time a race comes around?

I know what you’re thinking, time to upgrade if you want to win.. Nope not an option… some of us have mortgages, college & retirement funds, and a life outside of sailing that eats up a good portion of our entertainment dollars. Or sail harder and more often…again revert back to the statement a life outside sailing!

My opinion, this would help build the class, get more turnouts for the races (think entry fees and what it cost to host a regatta) and make it fun for those of us that are casual racers.

Yep it seems the portsmouth rating could be adjusted for allot of boats. On the last leg of the Gt300 team Chums on an I-20 was quoted as miles ahead of the of the group but was passed by Cirrus R F18. The rating system shows the I20 at .593 and the F18 at .624 yet with a few miles ahead and according the numbers a faster boat Cirrus R beat him by 13 minutes? I did not hear of any boat problems with Chums and they have sailed the GT for years and leg 4 is Lee's home port and he is very skilled sailor so what happened?
If the newer F18 were the same as older one there would be no reason to buy a new one. So people with more money have an advantage its does not mean you will take first if you buy the newest F18 sailing is a skill even an art.
I almost forgot people are having trouble locating boards for the Infusions so keep NACRA's superior customer service in mind when narrowing down your choices.


You seem to also be assuming that both boats, even when only a few hundred meters apart, are in the same breeze.
The Tx. gulf coast, and especially Leg 4 which ends on what we called 'East Beach' for 20+ years have very fluky varied breezes.

Did JOhn T. have boat problems?, or was he in some different winds. I dunno, I didn't do GT300 this yarn, dammit.
Lee and David had a great race, way to go Lee!
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 07/10/12 01:50 PM

Sorry for responding so late.
Quote
The rating system shows the I20 at .593 and the F18 at .624 yet with a few miles ahead and according the numbers a faster boat Cirrus R beat him by 13 minutes? I did not hear of any boat problems with Chums and they have sailed the GT for years and leg 4 is Lee's home port and he is very skilled sailor so what happened?


When we pulled ahead, we were spinn reaching pretty high in light air. At about the half way point, we were hit with a huge shift with 15 to 20 right on the nose for a while that had us in a tacking war with the Cirrus and a Tiger. The Cirrus could go way higher to weather and rolled us. The Tiger rolled us too until we got things sorted out and got back past them. Then it lightened up a bit and we hugged the beach since the wind was trying to turn 90 degrees to the beach. Then it just got plain light and fluky. We never could make up the loss in the tacking duel with JC and Dalton.
Posted By: Lockenfisch

Re: Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18 - 07/25/12 07:02 AM

Hei,

Avoid buying a used dutch North Sea Boat. They sail mostly hardcore there and the environment conditions are doing (giving the boat) the rest ;-) Here is a popular site for used catamarans in GER if you are interested:

http://esys.org/markt/bm_kat.html

If you find a South German one the chance is high that you get a nice boat that has never seen salty water and waves.

Take in account that the boat width of 2,59m is too much for many European road laws. If you pick the Katamaran somewhere in EU-Europe you propably have to trailer it sloped or in parts.

I would go for the Infusion btw.

Good Luck for your search. If you need translation for german ads feel free to contact me.
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