A bunch of Nacra Inter 20 questions

Okay everyone, I just bought a 2000 Nacra Inter 20 and I had a bunch of questions. You guys have already been super helpful when I asked about a furling system, so I seem to be in the right place.

Just to introduce myself, my name is Tim and I’ve owned a Prindle 18-2 for a couple years now and live out in Hawaii.

1) First question, what do you call the boat, Inter 20? Nacra 20? Nacra F20? I mean it says Inter 20 in big red letters on the side of the boat, but I understand that boat names evolve and I was wondering what the current term for the boat is.

2) Speaking of the big red ‘Inter 20’ logo on the side of the boat, I want to get rid of it. What’s the best way? Hair dryer and plastic scraper? 3m eraser drill pads?

3) The boat I bought didn’t come with a spinnaker or pole as it had been stolen off the boat awhile ago. I’m not sure what the original system on the boat was, but it seems easy enough to go between snuffer/non-snuffer. I think I would like to use the snuffer system, does anyone have a snuffer pole they want to part with? Also, I may/or may not need a spinnaker too. I have a lead on a spinnaker at a good price right now, but I need to figure out if the spinnaker will be compatible with the spin system I end up buying. From what I understand, a midpole snuffer versus a full length snuffer have different snuffing points on the spinnaker. I understand midpole snuffing is more desirable, but economics might play a factor on what pole I can afford.

4) The tramp on the boat is original (12 years old) and needs to be replaced. It seems to be pulling out of the track on one side of the boat. Is that because the track is bad, or the tramp is 12 years old, or both? I understand there are new tramp systems for the boat, what should I do here? Can I even find an original type tramp to buy anymore?

I know that’s a lot of questions, sorry about that.
Thanks in advance,

Tim

Nacra Inter 20 - USA 302

Call it a Nacra 20 or Inter 20 or N20 or I20. Not sure there is much difference between a N20 and I20. It is not an F20.
In terms of removing the Inter- I would use a razor blade (I believe it is just a vinyl graphic) and then use acetone to take away the residue. Problem is that the Inter 20 logo will likely still be "burnt" into the hull even after cleaning it all up. so... you might want to consider leaving it although I am sure someone has a way around the burnt in issue (but would require a ton of polishing maybe).

I think you should be able to find a used decent spin for the 20 without too much problem. If you buy a spin pole, you will need to buy the hoop as well that goes on the pole. This would require a 3 patch spin. You might be able to find a used pole with mid snuffer or an end pole snuffer set up (mid pole hoops are the same I believe for all the Nacras regardless of length of the boat). The end pole is less ideal but you should be able to possibly get one of these older setups cheaper (this would require only a 2 patch spin).

As far as the tramp- depends on the status of the tube in the hull that the bolt rope for the tramp runs in. Could be the tramp or the slot. Others have more experience with this than I do.

heat gun (carefully applied heat!...not TOO hot!). You can use a razor blade if you are very careful with it. Usually with a little heat, once you get an edge started, you can peel for some distance if you keep it warm as you go.

A sunfish mast (or part of the mast) is the same dimension as the N20 pole plus a little length. You'll need to cut it down. Considering your remote location, you'll probably be much better off to find a sunfish mast than freight for a replacement pole. The spinnaker snuffing points ARE different, but they are easy to add and any sailmaker can add or rearrange them. I wouldn't use this as a make / break situation. we can help with the correct placement of the points when you get to that part.

Trampoline coming out of the track is a common problem. The solution is a big fat rope with nylon strops. The trampoline is then cut back, folded over, and has more nylon strops sewn into it. The tramp is then threaded to between the hull-mounted strops and the tramp mounted strops. This fixes it in most cases (the bigger rope). In some cases, folks have had to resort to plastic slugs or plastic rod in the hull to keep it from pulling out. Future boats went to a shoulder screw in the hull to lace the trampoline to and the milled groove went away.

To answer the first question, I think several people decided to start calling it the N20 or Nacra 20 because there is a Monohull out there called the I20. I found it a couple times searching for tuning specs.

New tramps should not be too hard to come by, The sail maker here in Greenville makes them for any application as long as he has a pattern (your old tramp). You should not have too much trouble finding someone there to make one. It should be considerably cheaper than a Nacra one as well.

Did you buy the boat that was parked in front of the Four Seasons on Maui?

As for the tramp, Richard Leng at Sunrise can do a good job for you and make sure to tell him you want the 5/8" bolt rope for the main beam track and the side tracks... You going to have to wrestle it in with some sail coat but it will get there.

I had looked converting my end pole system to a mid pole system and the cost was not that much.. Murray's Marine has a hoop and a sock kit for about $200 and as for the other hardware less the pole you're looking at another $100.. As for the pole can't help you with that as it will cost to get it shipped there..

I make two trips there a year for business. My next one is in September. Shoot me a PM I may be able to bring some over some parts and save you on the shipping..

Yeah, that's the boat. So I guess I might do the - build your own spinnaker pole, although I was hoping someone had a full length snuffer pole they wanted to get rid of. I'm not really worried about being OD as I only know of one other N20 in the state. Although there are rumors of another...

Not sure what I'm going to do about that Inter 20 logo. I find it annoying, but not at the expense of messing of the boat/gelcoat.

If anyone else has any good ideas about my questions, feel free to chime in.

Thanks everyone,
Tim

N20 - USA 302

What island are you on?

I have a vector file of the new style nacra logo if you wanted something to replace it.

Oahu, boats on Maui though. My plan is to race it back during the Maui to Oahu race on labor day, but I need to get a bunch of stuff sorted out first on the boat.

Bacho, probably not going to put anything on the sides of the boat, except maybe a name. Speaking of, what should I name the boat. I could go with something Hawaiian sounding, or maybe a pun on Inter, like name it after the Beastie Boys song (Inter)galactic? My one friend wanted me to name my last boat 'Double Penetration', haha. If you have some good boat names, let me know.

Also, how hard is it to dissasemble the Nacra? I want to move it up to my friend's place upcountry for a month to work on it, but there's no feasible trailer around.

Tim

N20 - USA 302

Hey Tim,

Hook up with hobie1616 in this forum. He pretty much posts on ht Drill Baby Drill thread. He is on Maui and may be able to hook you up with a trailer to move the boat.

windboard masts can be used as a spin pole, and i bet there are tons of them around .

many people use the SNU system and love it.. .looks great to me too and i would probably go that way for my next spin

Name it: Humuhumunukunukuapuaa
big letters all the way down the side. that would be awesome!

Congrats on your new boat!

If you take off that sticker the are underneath will be shiney whereas the rest of the hull will not. It will be quite noticeable unless you do a complete hull wetsanding.

Nacra changed the name of the boat... we didn't ;-)

As for the tramp system... its horrible. I just went through the process of converting my slot system to a bunch of button screws to which to lace the tramp. There's a reason the new boats don't come with the slot system anymore.

A windsurfing mast for a spinnaker pole actually sounds like a pretty good idea. Maybe I'll use an old 400 cm (13'?) RDM mast or something similar. Anyone have any luck with that idea? Will the snu system work with an old windsurfing mast?

I was looking at the snu website today, (http://stores.homestead.com/gobarefootstudio/StoreFront.bok) and it appears the have three different bag lengths. Anyone know which one works the best on the Inter 20?

Tim
N20 - USA 302

I used to have a tapered fiberglass windsurf mast (was my first spin pole - PS never walk up them while capsized, i now have an alum one).

I spoke with the guy from SNU and he said he would work with me to get a SNU that fit the pole at the right spot.

Not sure on the size, SNU will know, but i will bet it's the biggest one they sell.

Tim,
Go back and read Jake's post. A sunfish mast is the answer and easily fits the snu hoop. You can probably find an old one for free after a few persistent phone calls.

I take it, it's the sprit, not the mast, right?

I'm not sure...really. The spin pole is 1.5" OD with a .065 wall...so whatever part of a sunfish matches that diameter and you're good to go (you'll need to shorten the Sunfish part a little).

Yes, the sprit is 13'8"
the mast is only 10', which is too short to use as a spin pole.

I understand the Nacra 20 is supposed to have a pole length of about 144". With the tack block around 143".

It seems that it's hard to get adequate luff tension on an OD spinnaker. Should I make my pole a little longer? Any anyone know by how much?

Just lower the pole by shortening the end-pole bridles. As mentioned earlier, you will also reduce the stress on the pole by no longer using the welded forestay hoop for it. Replace that with a short loop of line tied to that hoop and two more mid-pole bridles out to the forestay bridle tangs on the hull. You can make all of these lines out of vectran and save on the cost of custom steel wires (and you can adjust the lengths).

Guys, why all the bother in finding old masts etc when you will find that mast won't fit any of the fittings. Standard Ali tube is plentiful and cheap and local. On line and shipping usual gets it to your door in a few days in either 2.5m or 5m lengths.

No you don't need any fancy paint or such on it or if you do for aesthetic reasons then get it locally powder coated, it lasts and is tough and dead cheap and again local.

Carbon or glass as a spinny pole is no stronger than Ali and in many ways more prone to breakage when bounced into by the flying crew. An Ali pole will bend and deform but won't just shatter.

The sunfish part (mast, boom, whatever that is) is quite economical even from a sunfish dealer. It's much cheaper than buying (and shipping) a raw aluminum extrusion. Bonus is that the sunfish part is anodized too.

The Nacra extrusion is over $400 before you put any hardware on it (this may include shipping).

It's the boom/sprit

http://www.rigrite.com/spars/A_spec_classes/Sunfish_spars.html

http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/Aluminium-Round_Tube/c120_131/p3116/Aluminium_Round_Tube_%286082T6%29_1%3Csmall%3E%3Csup%3E1%3C/sup%3E/%3Csub%3E4%3C/sub%3E%3C/small%3E_in_x_14_swg/product_info.html

£ 5.85 for a 2.5m length, cheap enough and I'm sure you will have the same in the States, probably as usual, what we pay in £'s you pay in $'s

Pause on the spinnaker pole for a second. I need to move my boat upcountry and it's not looking like a trailer is going to be an option, how hard is it to take the boat apart?

I've bought a couple 6061T6 1.5"x.065"x8' round extrusions from my local Metal Supermarkets and IIRC they were $30-$40.

Metal Supermarket does not have 12 foot tubing. Tim, all you need is a socket wrench and a couple of beers to take it apart.

It's not that hard. What Phil said - a large hex key for the front bolts and a socket for the rear bolts is all you need. Be sure to use an anti-seize agent on the bolts when you put them back in (a healthy dose of lithium grease or other). There have been some stripping issues with those bolts so turn them slowly to not overheat the threads.

I work at a machine manufacturer that buys about $5 Million in steel and aluminum annually. We pay almost $0.50 per inch of similar tubing before shipping/freight making a 12' tube $72 USD. The freight on that would probably be $40 to $60 because of the length. I can't believe you can get that tube for a $10 USD equivalent.

I was quoted about $80 for that piece

I'll probably just go with the sunfish upper boom because it's not that expensive ($140) and available out here, unless someone thinks it's an inferior product.

Also, does anyone have the lengths/widths and type of line I need for mainsheet, jibsheet, halyards, etc.

I know this sounds like a lazy request. But the boat is on Maui (and I'm not) and I want to buy new line for it before I head over there again.

Tim

Although, if I did find a metal fab shop, they could make it to length I specify instead of chopping the sunfish boom

It's really pretty easy to cut with a hacksaw and a miter box. But..either way.

CALLING DAVID INGRAM! I've looked but can't find that I20 site you used to have up with all the line lengths...where might we find that? Tad? anyone?

Was it on 1design.net?

I've been using sunfish booms for 5 years. They work as good as anything you get from Nacra. Cut it to 12' and drill a hole in the plastic cap. Fits great.

Trey knows the line lengths by heart. Give him a call and he'll tell ya.

velocitytrey at gmail.com

Okay, I just shot him an email. Question, does the single line spinnaker system work with the midpole snuffer bag, or do you need a separate line just for the tack?

Tim
N20 - USA 302

Do yourself a favor and just use separate lines for the tack and halyard.

Where/how do I mount a cleat for the tack? I'd probably put it right next to the spinnaker halyard, starboard side, and use a similar cleat. I also need to mount a cleat for my jib furling line. Port side with a similar cleat as the spin halyard?

I was reluctant to respond since i don't sail a I20/N20 but... I (personally) have my jib cleat on the port side of my front beam. My tack line is in the same type of cleat (ronstan alum teeth) but on the stbd side of my mast (on the beam). I use different color lines so i can yell at crew Pull the RED...etc

My spin halyard runs through a spin lock about 1.5' up my mast. Some had issues with spin locks but i think the issues were resolved when they went to alloy inside the spin lock. I have a very thin halyard and no problems with it.

If you have regular crew, and they like to STAND UP while raising the spin... many people put the spinlock a few feet higher up the mast.. .i sail solo often and don't want to stand to raise it (or increase my odds of it self locking while i am snuffing)

PS the halyard/retrieval is continuous on my cat, tack is separate.

Thanks for the info

glad to help

Notice that on a lot of boats the original position for the rotationcleats has been abandoned and that it's been run different ways also that the rotation has been changed to basically an on off does anyone have some pictures of the on off for the rotation I kind of like the rotation in the position that it's currently in For fine adjustments ,but it does seem to come uncleated quite often , especially when I tie off to the trapeze line. Seems like it needs Bungie going over the top of it so that it doesn't come on cleaded quite so easily. I'm thinking about trying to run the end of the rotation line into the main beam but I'm thinking that that may just pull it out of the Cleat, also tied off to a bungee in the main beam