How much would you spend on vendors who support you?

Vendor A has nice products and supports local regattas to you with donations or raffle prizes.
Vendor B has products of equal quality but is easily found online cheaper than vendor A. This vendor does not visibly support any local events to you.

How much more would you be willing to pay vendor A if at all? If shipping didn't matter and both items were identical, would you be willin to spend 10% more on vendor A?

It might depend on whether or not he promotes racist statements.

An individual consumer in USA's capitalist culture has very little power. One strength he does have is the ability to withhold how much he is willing to pay for products. Why should I publicly disclose such information?

Come on man. This is a legitimate topic, lets not bring more of that bull$hit into another thread.

I think it's great to see a vendor support out events by being there. I, for one, will give them my business. HOWEVER, I also like that we have a free forum here and will patronize Rick's store as well, just like I have Murray's. It boils down (for me) the feeling I get from where I spend my money. If they just want in my pocket, I won't go back. I've had Key Sailing go the extra mile for me and rushing to get me a part too, much better than my local store KO Sailing. Personally, I would like to make a better effort to shop from Rick more since he provides this forum as well as clincs and some top notch races.

"If shipping didn't matter and both items were identical, would you be willin to spend 10% more on vendor A?"

No. I doubt the validity of your hypothesis, there's always a difference. Also, money is a concern for me, the less I spend on other boat related things, the more regattas I can attend. So, indirectly vendors with lower prices are enabling my habit hobby.

It's offensive - and I wasn't the one who brought that signature here....and to be honest, that kind of stuff on a contractor's van or vendor who's giving me a proposal would affect my decision to hire them or not. That person/vendor/contractor's skill/talent may overcome it but he's already started half a step down if nothing else but from the display of insensitivity. We have sailors in our area that might take that tag line very seriously and I feel a bit of responsibility to call it out since the first time it got called out didn't stop it. I don't want my sailors/friends to think that through inaction we might actually condone that kind of atmosphere here.

I don't care if you think a view point, idea, person (me even) or action is stupid. Heritage / skin color is a different matter.

+1

+1

I dont care about 10% (unless we are talking BIG purchases) and I am willing to pay 10% more to support vender's I appreciate. I will pay in cash too to save them 5%

BUT I agree with Jake. anyone who drags offensive politics, racism, or just about any other kind of degrading viewpoint (via bumper sticker, or something i overhear) will most likely not get my business).

Those that know me, know if there is a deal out there I'll find it.. But, when it comes to doing business local or with those that are supportive of our events I will always purhcase from them..
Recenly I went out my way to buy a product form a vendor at a higher price due to the fact that when I needed some help that vendor was there and went the extra mile with out ever being asked..

What was it that my father always use to say, penny wise dollar follish.

Slight variant of the original question which posited the condition "equal".

I agree, if you're going to get good "service after the sale" then support the servicer. Business relations are a two way street, imo.

Kudo's Jake! Clearly racism is alive and well in the US.

So, I guess Bacho is a vendor? If that's the case then, Jake, I appologize. If he's not, then are you going to slam each post he makes based on his signature? Why not be the bigger man and ingnore it? BTW, it's not anything I'd ever have on my signature but we do still have Freedom of Speech in this country.

Yes it is, just watch a few hours of BET.

jesus f*cking christ.......

Bacho, open a store. I'll buy whatever you're peddling, just to keep things in balance so we aren't all a pile of mindless automatons.


To the actual question, I can't really say as I'm in a unique position.



and Jake, that's why my work truck doesn't have anything other than the company logo on it. Although most of the yuppies I do work for would have no clue who I support in elections is.





There's a steady stream of urine running down my leg I'm laughing so hard.



(edit)- Also, you butt clowns have no clue what racism is. Lock an old Korean and an old Japanese man in a room full of sharp objects, you'll f-ing see racism. Or, something a bit more with the times, lock a Israeli and a Palestinian in that same room. That's racism.

I remember a bumper sticker I saw in traffic one day: "Who would Jesus bomb" I wish I could caught up with the person and told them Palestine.

Mr. Bacho – though I will agree you signature is a bit offensive and speaks volumes to your IQ, unless the moderator of this forum has problem with this, you have every right in the world to leave it there. And I would suggest you not cave into the opinion of others.

Mr. Kohl – who the hell are you or stated better who died and made you God? Take your sanctimonious crap elsewhere, or do what you do best when people don’t kiss you butt and agree with everything you say – put him on ignore.


Arn't you the guy that went to a business on the west coast to save a few bucks and got bad service because he was cheaper then the guy down the street?

Glad to see you learned your lesson!

No that's religion... Dafur, that's racism!

BTW, it's not anything I'd ever have on my signature but we do still have Freedom of Speech in this country.
_________________________
Lee


Hmm.... back to high school dude... and pay attention this time... freedom of speech is about the state regulating your speech. (see the other supreme court decision Thursday)

Rick could and should eliminate all bacho posts that use that signature line. This is a privately run board.

Rick does regulate speech.... For example...

I am not offended by a poster using the George Carlin's Seven Dirty words (****, Piss, kiss, femalegenitalia, ****, Mother fucker and Tits.)

I am offended by racist clap trap.

"I am offended by racist clap trap." Um, this case is out in the open, inviting criticism. There is merit in that, imo.

Things that don't offend me: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=136602

back to the original hypothesis, I would think that many of us would support local retailers within certain criteria:
- local product support
- genuine interest and expertise in their particular idiom (be it restaurant, sport, entertainment)
- supports local community

If internet retailers do this as well, then I would be happy to patronize them as well. Rick's site is a good example of that.

Several of the boat dealers are prime examples of this as well, supporting the sailing community by hosting regattas, sponsoring teams, etc. I don't know of many boat manufacturers that do this directly, so it stands to reason that the dealers absorb those overhead costs, and some of that is buried in the prices I pay from them

I try to patronize locally owned/operated restaurants in the off-tourist season (I stay home during season - it's ridiculous), and will pay a certain amount extra to local sailing/dive/shooting/alcohol/topless shops to encourage community activity and support.

In many cases I make that specific point to the owners of the establishment I choose to patronize. I also point out specific cases where internet prices are dramatically (like over 20%) different. In some cases the retailer adjusts their pricing, or explain valid reasons for the difference.

I'm certain most, if not all products can be found slightly cheaper on the internet. It stands to reason that internet retailers do not have nearly the overhead that a brick & mortar business would.

Most retailers are aware of the price discrepancy between web and brick, and don't charge dramatically higher than the average internet cost.

I doubt any savvy retailer would be naieve enough to think that 99% of their customers don't do their homework before a purchase, and know pretty well how much things cost.

Those sites which sell items for substantially less than the average tend to be suspect in my book (inaccurate description or specs, hidden costs/shipping, or outright misrepresentation)

Talk about sanctimonious crap! I'm with Jake. Frankly, I find it ironic that kiss **** piss femalegenitalia whatever is offensive to the moderators but racism is not. I'm moving toward putting the whole site and online store on ignore. And no matter how vehement the protest, wrong is still wrong.

Yes
I will pay a little bit more to buy from someone who helps the local sailing.

I agree with your reasoning but feel your conclusion is extreme.

Because ignoring it shows anybody that grazes through here that we don't care and it gives all of us a bad image. That political thread alone shows that a lot of people are incapable of ignoring things they don't care for. Can you imagine what society would be like if everyone was just a "bigger man" and ignored everything that was unsuitable? I can turn that around on you a thousand ways. C'mon man.

Re: Freedom of Speech, you'll also note that I did not demand that he take it down. He has the right to put it up there as much as I do to complain about it. I'm good with that. That's how this works.

And what, bomb his birthplace?

I do not own a store, nor do I sell any products. I had this discussion with a few friends the other night and was surprised to find almost no loyalty in them. I was just wondering how everyone else felt.

As to my signature you will find that it has been removed.

Well done. Thank you.

Okay Karl, say something inflammatory or this place will be silent as a morgue.

I know! California has banned the sale of foie gras. Let's beat on them awhile.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48012557/

Hold on, I'm dodging traffic on I94 and changing my signature.....

First job out of college was selling sporting goods and team uniforms to high schools and colleges... great job.

Had one client that would always ask for a sizable donation to support the program, but always took his business to a dealer that was Northern CA to save a few bucks. After two years of this I polity told him to pound sand and that unless he supported us we couldn’t support him. He made a big stink about this to the Athletic Director and was telling the other coaches not to buy from us because of that. They really didn't care what he said anyway because they knew what kind of a weasel he was. One year I get a call from him, the dealer dropped the ball (pun) and couldn't deliver the game uniforms in time for picture day and the kids were real upset because they were buying the jerseys. Even though we had the cut and sew plant local and could deliver the stuff and have made me a shinning star I chose not to do it, and I let him know that. Eventually the AD got with me and asked me to help him out after getting some heat from the parents which we did and at a discounted price!

The next year I got all the business from this individual not because of this, but because the company he was buying from went out of business by being a Me-Too- Price- Buster.

Support you local business or those that are supporting your (insert activity) if you can! They may be a little more; and that is a hard pill to swallow in these economic times, but in the long run it is a better proposition.

I know I didn't spend much time in College, but would my signature be considered "racist" too? Or is it ok to bash on a white boy? Is it ok if I have a bunch of white friends?
Mark Schnider...I wasn't talking about the law but I wouldn't expect you to understand that anyway.

Not really. White people in government housing isn't such a high rate (I'm hypothesizing..haven't looked this up) that a "racist" would consider it an intrinsic characteristic of people with white skin...so it doesn't have the same kind of bite. However, on the other hand, the perception is that a significant percentage of government housing is occupied by african americans and to infer that the this is because of the color of their skin IS racist.

Are you saying that you don't think the previously discussed statement was racist?

Actually I DO think it is racist but my somewhat stealth point was the double standards we see today so often.

Ya beat me to it Lee.

How did this go from "would you support your vendors? " to Political Anarchy...

FWIW, I do my best as a vendor to support sailing events. I can't support them all, but I try to spread it around from NA and Worlds Champs (monos and multi's) to regional Opti and Junior programs (probably more so on the youth side than adult events).

If I looked at the dollars involved, there's no way I get an ROI, but it's just my part of giving back and helping to grow the sport.

-M

Hence my recent purchase of Zhik products... The new hareness realy is easy on the JUNK!

Thanks for your hel by the way!

Is it OK to bash a white boy?... ... Hey you can bash me all you want..... we are on equal footing and we have the same stature and power in society.

Now... change your tag line to "Texas Redneck George Bush" ... and you have established the power disparity between Rednecks and "Regular civilized" people and that is offensive (but not "racist" in American discourse)

Try
"That Hawaiian Barack Husein Obama is debating that Mormon Mitt Romney in a few months followed by that Cuban Marco Rubio who will battle that Catholic Joe Biden." This is a racial and stereotyped characterization that communicates in a particular way..... (mostly about the writer)!

On the offensive scale.... where does it rank??? Mildly offensive?
Consider if I changed Hawaiian to the usual Muslim mis- characterization of Obama.

Now you ring the very offensive racist bell in the American culture because in American history... the black muslims of the 60's were anti american anarchist/ radical blah blah blah....(a powerless minority of a minority that you can demonize) and of course the idea is to dog whistle to your fellow travelers that Obama is a black racist anti American socialist traitor, potential terroist and illegitimate president.

Your idea that there is "a double standard" in this game of slurs is a fig leaf for you that tries to minimize or excuse the first slur..... these slurs are just ignorant descriptions of power relationships in American culture.

Why we tolerated them for so long is not an excuse. Props to Jake for pointing out something I have overlooked forever and bacho for deleting his tag line.

If these were my forums...

I'd create, and move all political drivel to a politic topic section. I'd also narrow it down to 7 or or forum topics.

If this were done, CatSailor could kick the butt of the sailing forum world, as it once did.

I'm down with free speech, obviously, but I'd like to have topics compartmentalized and categorized so that we can find the information that we're looking for.

I also don't like my swearing censored. If I want to call Karl a jack butt...

Dealer support...meh.

If these were my forums, I would put Jake in control of them.

+1
Rolf, what is stopping you from exercising your moderating super powers?

One of the things I like about Sailing Anarchy is the lack of moderation. You really have to piss in someone's Wheaties to get a thread or post edited. I uses to be on a woodworking forum, and virtually every thread had been modified. That bullshlt gets old rather quickly.

There is no censoring here, just a Napoleon Complex by a few posters..

Tony,
Rolf does not moderate this specific board ..

There is a difference between tossing offensive points of view and boorish or disagreeable points of view.

The F16's got their panties in a bunch and decided to moderate their forum to stop what they saw as boorish and disagreeable behavior that they felt injured their class image .... end result... very short sighted...the chilling effect was noticeable. nobody pays much attention any longer. Moreover, if they tossed a handful of posts since then ... I would be stunned.
Not much good comes from trying to regulate speech that is on the topic.

However, moderating offensive speech and deleting or sending it to the political thread is more in the lines of housekeeping.... I think of it as pulling weeds.

moderating the personal attacks of one participant on the other is a grey area... (Sam vs Wouter) (Wouter vs WF) (Wouter vs Bill Roberts) (Macca vs the F16 crowd)

When the attacks just become personal... eg... the classic "JANE... YOU IGNORANT SLUT" not much positive happens. I don't believe any of those posts were tossed... The participants basically quit.

Not much good comes about when people quit or when the moderator has to step in and stop the crap!

Self regulation is the best solution. Props again to Bacho for deleting his tag line.

"The F16's got their panties in a bunch and decided to moderate their forum to stop what they saw as boorish and disagreeable behavior that they felt injured their class image .... end result... very short sighted...the chilling effect was noticeable. nobody pays much attention any longer. Moreover, if they tossed a handful of posts since then ... I would be stunned.
Not much good comes from trying to regulate speech that is on the topic."

The F16 class is doing just fine, despite the best efforts of people like you!

I miss Mary!

This forum, like any forum has "house rules". IIRC, the "house rule" on politics was expressed by Mary a while back. It was "sailors talking to sailors about politics" and therefore OK.

But Jeremy is right. Politics and sailing are mixed categories and therefore trouble. I vote to nix the political threads. It's sailing...

As far as purchasing goes, I buy from good dealers and spend a little more. But I price shop if dealers sell junk and don't ship things in a timely manner.

Regarding racism. Whether for it or against it, anyone who uses the word "racism" is racist. Civility is a better word.

Not true. I had a post deleted that had quotes from a thieving vendor.

I wonder what Jeremy's view on this would be...

I shop the best service. If that means that I pay 10% more, then absolutely. I will always give a local vendor the opportunity to earn my business, but in the end, if the service isn't there, then I have a hard time returning. In the specific case of local sponsorship you presented, then the same rules apply, and I'll certainly give them a run and see how they do, but if they don't provide the service, I have a hard time returning.

No comment.

That's some hypocritical,spun ,bullshite, that makes YOU look racist. Just because you think you're being righteous doesn't mean you're not being racist. Trying to justify it with hypothetical percentages and stats is weak ,at best.



So if this( or ,say inmate statistics) turns out to be fact instead of perception, how the F*** is it racist to point out a statistical fact. Are you really so scared you are going to hurt someone's feelings or piss someone off that you'll ignore those facts while refusing to ignore all of bacho's posts ?


And in the end isn't that exactly what libs do best.

Jake, I'm glad we don't talk politics when we see each other, it would seriously cut in to some good drinking and boat talk time.

Todd, give me a freakin' break. You think turning it around is a "liberal thing"? Seriously? If that's so, it's because you guys make it so darn easy. Try this; Why aren't you the "bigger man" here and hush here as Lee recommended when he didn't agree with what I said? That piss you off? It did me.

In the post you quoted, all I did was provide a logical (and actual) definition of racism pointing out why Lee's reverse example wasn't really racist. It wasn't a racist statement because the majority of people in government housing probably aren't white. I didn't look up the statistics so I quoted "perception". Which is really what racism is based on anyway. Are you really worried that I used "perception" instead of fact? Does that really bother you?

Nope, I'm not really bothered by any of this except the oversensitivity. My point is if you find statistics saying any race is disproportionately represented in a situation (public housing, prisons, etc.) , you seem to think that it's racist if that is pointed out. Yet, in the same situation but the term white being used , you're OK with that. It's the same thing and should be treated the same.Personally ,I think everyone should HTFU and not be so overly sensitive. I'm definitely not defending racism, it exists and sucks , but this ain't a case of it. The current pres. is open game as was everyone before it as shown in one of Schneider's posts above. Are you going to stand up for Mitt Romney when the Mormon jokes start?



No, I think the reason is spin and subterfuge are all you've got. Facts don't seem to help your case.

I haven't quoted one statistic. I talked about perception.

Let me spell it out a different way. The statement in question "Obama is just another black man in government housing" is racist. It is racist because "...just another black man..." plays on the perception that African Americans make up a significant portion of people that partake of government provided housing and it infers that it is due to their skin color ("just another"). This is racist. It is not me trying to make anything of, or for, myself. This is not me "spinning" anything...in fact, if you look up the definition of "racism", you'll see that this fits within the definition and that the counter example does not because it's not as common for white people to be in government housing. I also haven't brought politics or political persuasion into this.

This is the only fact that I've discussed...and I'm not sure how it doesn't help my case. It's pretty clear.

Would you say that it is a "distinctive cultural characteristic" that white people are in government housing? It is not. This is why the posted counter statement is not racist.

You haven't pissed me off, I'm not sure you could.
I'm not defending racism ( It has affected me far more than you'll ever know), just thought your reaction, in multiple threads to 1 persons sig line was over the top. You stated how you felt, which you should, and then felt compelled to bully him in other threads until he dropped. That's my point.
So, I'll correct the word choice of my other example by saying- You're OK with religious bigotry, just not racism.

Todd

What are you doing?..

I thought you would get the hint...
Hillbilly... Cultural bigotry.
Polish or Cuban jokes... Ethnic bigotry.
Mormon or Catholic..... Religious bigotry.

THEN WE DRAW A BRIGHT LINE.... on the bigotry that involves race..... (hint... its the genes)

Jake is not approving or condoning any of this crap... he just highlighted the line....Racist things that are way over the top. It sounds like you want to muddy the line. Why?

I got it... you don't like Obama's politics... take it to the drill baby drill politics.... don't blur the lines

First, I try to buy locally, hopefully a shop that I can actually visit and see the merchandise and develop a relationship with the owner. Second, I buy from those that are associated with the brand boat that I sail in order tohave support from the manufacturer. After that, price.....

You're not making sense. This is the only thread I posted about it and it remains here. I responded only once directly to the person with the signature and then I only responded to those that addressed me directly. Now you complain about me continuing this thread but it was dead until you revived it again addressing me directly...and this continued discussion is somehow my fault? Typical.

When did religious bigotry enter the picture? I've never discussed that here. Now you are just inventing stuff trying to muddy the water.

Typical of what? Independent voters, White men in their 40s, Christians, Blue collar workers,... What are you trying to say Jake? That sounded a bit bigoted.
The religous bigotry came up when you said my Mitt/Mormon question wasn't the same as the Black man stuff.Try to keep up.

I'm done, I've got to go to work to help pay for our presidents housing, rather he deserves it or not.

FYI, I googled the origin of the "quote" in question and found it.
I wont post it here however but lets just say Obama was called something a lot less friendly than "black man".

Typical of you guys here that engage in the political discussions but can't manage a simple conversation about facts without introducing new unrelated items and turning it into something else before anything can actually be resolved. This was about whether or not the statement above was racist. It was. Most seem to agree. Yet, somehow, you are trying to twist this conversation into holding me responsible for something negative. Why is that?

I never responded to the Mitt/Mormon question you posed so I'm not sure where you're getting that from.

$200 for SLO, $600 for local. More than to "save a few bucks". Also at that time, i didn't really need a new tramp.. just repaired the one i had. next year ... when i finally get that new tramp... it will be with sunrise for sure

OK, can just someone delete or re-name this entire thread please?

I read about 10 posts, have no idea what the original quote was (nor care to), and am pretty unimpressed.

I have no problem with ranting and spouting and political nonsense, I simply choose not to open those threads.

However, if a potential sponsor were to come across this topic while deciding whether or not to support us, I think we know the answer.

Mike

Mike, I think the thread was a question about who would pay 10% more to put you in government housing with bad service.

Speed reading works for me!

Delete the thread, really?

So you are in the ignore racist remarks camp? Wonder how potential sponsors feel about that.

There is nothing political about this thread and Jake has already explained why, although several have tried hard to turn it into a political discussion.

Yes, delete the thread. Really. For the reasons I stated, not the ones you'd like to make up and put in my mouth for me.

This thread is a perfect example of how this place has really gone downhill since SA took off. Seems that some people post there, then come here and forget where they're posting. The insults, attacks and language were never as bad as they've been the past few years.

Taking no sides or tertiary issues into consideration, the topic itself was a good idea, and would have been an interesting discussion.

Mike

Can we delete this thread and then have this topic over?

can you get an internet "Do Over"? I thought this stuff was permanent, like those pictures of Jake hugging the trash at Spring Fever

I agree, the puctuation, and spelling have really gone to sh!t.