C20na ... downwind nospin. traveler question

on thebeachcats someone posted pics on the new Nacra C20na.

Someone responded with this "If its nuking and you're in survival mode to get home, you'd be fine two sailing it without the kite, as long as you kept it deep, and STILL didn't travel out the main to keep the power manageable. Closer to DDW, if not exactly."

what are your thoughts on keeping the travler IN in heavy air (downwind/no spin)

I only drop the traveler if I'm over stood.

It depowers the boat some - but you're really vulnerable to a wind shift and auto-gybe. When the wind is up, it's usually pretty unstable. If that main gybes with it closer to center, it will overpower the rudders and you'll be practicing your synchronized swimming manuevers in short order.

I believe that there is video on youtube of a large planing mono hull pulling the Chinese Gybe while DDW in gale force survival mode. Great to reduce exposed sail area, but Gybe and you're Goose is Cooked.

that's what i thought

thanks

I recall it

I've got the t-shirt.

Key is NOT to sail ddw. It's much easier and safer to reach a little with the traveler dropped, in conditions where hoisting the kite on a planning boat is dangerous.

The real question is what do you do when you are reaching at exactly 90 degrees to the wind and are fully depowered, traveled down and start running out of main sheet? This is with the crew on the wire, helm not because the waves are questionable.

We came to a consensus at the club this week but I'm curious what others think. Doesn't matter if is a spin boat or not for the most part but the main is a square top and fully powered up.

You HTFU and drive it like you stole it.

Try 32+ knots. You have no choice but DDW.

I've rarely been in such conditions. In survival mode I go head to wind as close as possible and still maintain steerage. Haven't drowned..yet.

What if you want to go the other direction?

The correct answer is to drop the main and let the jib drag you along...if you're not still racing or convinced that it would still be faster than flipping a dozen times.

In survival mode I'm interested in survival.

Where I sail intense down bursts of high wind are fairly common, are of sudden onset, though not without warning and rarely last more than a few minutes. I wouldn't care to try handling the main in those circumstances.

I can't see myself EVER trying this method(center the traveler in heavy air) on a $30,000 cat (let alone my 19 year old cat)

we camp a lot in the bay spoil islands during the fall/spring. Often we wake up on sunday to much higher than predicted wind and must sail back to our cars at the causeway with literally up to 100lbs (or more) of gear/pets, etc...

There is no choice in which way you point the boat, only if you sail main or jib or mast only (done that a few times).. or if we are not going home and missing work on monday .

I'd opt for missing work...always.

much easier to say/type that than actually do it ... often the food and supplies are done by then, people have jobs they can't just call in and miss, etc. Come to think of it... no one i have seen in my 6 years camping with this crew has ever stayed over sun night and missed work

Try 40+ gusting to 50+ knots. Balls of steel+DDW seem to be the consensus. And people were giving me **** for wanting reef points in a new TheMightyHobie18 main.

I agree with both Pete and Jake.

Hove-to if you think it's going to be a short-term thing and you're not dying to win a race. Wait it out and carry on when it's safer

If you absolutely, positively have to go in that direction now rather than later, fly the jib only (or bare poles and go slow). Even if you have to flip to initially get the main started down...

I don't consider it "racing" when it's over 25 kts. It's more like "(s)he who makes the fewest mistakes in handling". As Jake pointed out, flipping 10 times is most likely slower than flying a jib only downwind.

At the 35+ kts he mentioned, I'd be good with bare pole since the minute wind gets under that tramp, it's going to fly away from you and leave you bobbing.. sans boat - which is hardly advisable.

I don't know if reef points would help at all in that situation. If you're caught in that is one thing. Choosing to go out in that is entirely different. I would suspect in a white squall like that keeping the boat in one piece WITH the crew on it is first priority. Making forward progress against a lee shore or toward safe harbor is second. If it's DDW, then bare-pole makes the most sense, as you'll probably be going close to 8-10 knots anyway.

I found myself once returnig to the beach with strong wind blowing exactly in the same direction, in a narrow path with lots of obstacles. I centered the traveller and sheeted in. Then tried to control gybes by staying slitghtly out of DDW direction and making controlled gybes when necessary. Centering the traveller is a good idea, it depowers the boat in that case and also restrict the effect of an unwanted gybe. The problem is that things get scary very fast if you change direction, but I doubt that it happen primarily because of the traveller position. It's just because the main is sheeted in and you may not be able to sheet out fast enough. Landing was a bit scary actually. It wasn't sand but little stones, so I had to control the boat before landing. It wasn't 30 knots, in that case I'd have tryied to drop the main as suggested above.

The last time I was in this situation, the wind was much lighter than 30. I was trying to fetch the dock at the Sanibel boat ramp (not the mainland ramp at Punta Rassa), the wind was coming off the land and would switch directions wildly and puff from near zero to 15-20 in an instant. Being in no particular hurry, I just ran the travel down about a foot sheeted the main tight but not absurdly so. That allowed me to hold the bows off the wind for ease of steering and depowered the main all at the same time. It was all together a pleasant 10-15 minutes, with me practicing the "hold the boat in one place" manuever.

I have gone out only 2x in above 25 intentionally. both times it was on a dart (18 & 20) and it got up above 40.

we were loving it on the dart 18.. until it got so hairy the skipper couldn't effectively steer it and we beached it about 1/2 mile south of our target sans damage.

The second time was with 3 of us on a dart 20... it was fast, furious and very wet... we were snapping battens left and right...

In hindsight... i'd probably stay on land

To me that's pointless. I've only done that once intentionally and it was immediately clear it was a mistake. We made it back to the beach with no damage and I've never repeated the mistake.

Usually my vote.

Usually.....







Semi funny. My crew lost the boat, I was still in the water. I slid back as she was drifting to the rear, and grabbed onto the rudder, she grabbed my foot. She yelled "Now what?!" I said climb me. The boat was drifting so fast I wasn't able to pull both of us up.



A weather station a mile or so away reported 60mph winds. It was definitely blowing like hell, but I don't think it was that high where we were.

You don't have a mainsail up the mast in that going downwind...unless the mast is pointed toward the bottom. Boats will auto-right in 35+ and won't even stay capsized unless they're turtled.

Did you find your hat?

Gotta test the limits sometimes to know how far is "too far"

where i sail is protected from the gulf waves and if we capsize there is land within a mile or 2 in every direction. As long as the wind isn't pushing you out the pass into the gulf... your not gonna drift for to long...


even the 2nd time was fun and i had a cute girl screaming and holding on to me the entire time, meanwhile Capt Steve had a **** eating grin from ear to ear... the whole time, even when the battens were snappingin gusts around 45mph.

Both Darts handled the wind like a champ...

you dirty dog! - but i am gonna try that line next time i capsize with a hottie onboard

PS who took those amazing pictures?

Holy crap....this is the second photo sequence of you wiping out in one week. Either a) you wipe out A LOT, or 2) Photo boats seem to find you at the best possible times!

Top pic gets my vote:
you see the hat in the air, and the crew falling into the drink through the trampoline

Yes, and yes.