Couldn't right my cat solo. Need advice

It's a Nacra 5.5, I weight 180 lbs. I tried with a righting bag that I made myself, quite big: diam 22", height 30" (maybe a bit more, I don't remeber exactly). I guess it had at least 130 lbs on it. I have a mast float and just the tip of the mast was under water, when it came up (with help) it didn't seem to have water inside. Wind was maybe 15 knots and it seemed to be in the right direction, the mast pointing maybe 15° or so to the wind and the wind blowing from below the sail. That's all I could rotate the cat anyway, stepping at the stern. Main and jib were released and the upper part of the main was vertical, not looking like full of water. I raised the bag and with the same rope I hooked from the harness and stepped out myself, from the mid of the beam. The bag was hanging down from near my belly. Nothing. I also tried to move the bag out with my back but it felt less effective.
Disappointing. Now I'm afraid of the dark..
I tried the righting pole in the past with a N5.0 and it didn't work either. So it looks like I need a shroud extender. What is your experience with this device? And what do you think I could do better without it?
Thanks

Strange the righting pole didn't work, as a lever it has to work it's just the length of the pole, on my Stingray that was the same size as your boat my righting pole stuck out about 2 ft behind the rear beam. Did you let your downhaul off? The sail keeps it's shape if the downhaul is on and sucks itself back to the water. Do you throw a righting rope over the hull or is it just under the tramp? On my 5.8 it has to go over the hulls to get the leveredge

Thanks Jeff. The righting pole is an old story, it was a bit short maybe, beam to beam of a N5.0. It ended up broken in half and then I switched to the righting bag (and changed cat too). I didn't like the pole a lot, it kept bothering somehow, either when you stepped over it or bouncing agaist the beam while sailing. I'd like to try the shroud extender, unless I hear warnings about it. I attach the upper blocks of the mainsheet to the main wiht a hook (I kept it from the N5.0), so it's pretty easy to unhook it and set up a temporary spare shroud with a trap wire, to retension the loose shroud.

We get a debate every few months about whether a righting line must come over the top of the hull. Mine does and I have no problem but I'm a lot heavier than you.

Take off the float thing. That's making it much harder to right.

The position of the righting line does not effect leverage. The only thing that matters is the position of your CG. If your body is straight out with your rear end just above the water, you're applying the max leverage. How you achieve that position is irrelevant. The position of the righting line will effect how hard it is hold the line, but it won't effect how much righting moment is applied.

sm

I'm not going to argue if you don't believe that pulling something over from 2 ft/ 30 percent higher doesn't make any difference to leveredge, keep believing it. Heres a link to a guy solo righting a 20ft Hobie with shroud adjuster
http://youtu.be/XqY_zMlETo0

Good video, thanks.
About the lever arm discussion, there is a difference only if you pull from outside the boat, but if you are standing on the boat, there is no difference if your body is in the same position.
See it this way:
If you are outside (pulling from a motorboat), it's (almost) the same tension with different lever arms, so it does make a significant difference.
If you are on the boat, as you lower the attachment point, the tension gets higher because of force decomposition (to hold your weight). The tension increase compensates the lever arm reduction. (tends to infinity when lever arm tends to 0)

On the F16 Stealth I have a righting pole that extends past the rear beam about 6", I'm 160 lbs, and I have to climb out onto it, staying entirely out of the water, putting all my weight on it, to right it. And it's a 230 lb boat with a light carbon mast, so at 180 lbs and a heavier boat, even with the bag, I'm not hugely suprized that it was tough to bring up.
On the HT I have one of Hobiegary's Solo Rights, but to make it work for me, I slide an additional 24" of aluminum windsurf mast over the outboard end of it, to get sufficient leverage to right the Bimare solo. Maybe you could develop a telescoping righting pole to get the additional length you need, or secure an additional piece of tubing to underside of the tramp somehow, maybe a pocket sewn to it.
I have hyfield levers and 30" shroud extenders on the ARC22, and it recently worked perfectly, with 350 lbs of crew weight popping her back up in less than 5 minutes. The lever releases enough tension to allow the fastpin(secured with a lanyard) to be pulled from the upper end of the lever, releasing the shroud; and the shroud extender(a length of wire rope, the lower endof which is permanently secured to the chainplate, and the upper end is nicro pressed around the shroud above its lower termination) slides down the shroud, catching on the end, and effectively lengthens the shroud by that 30", allowing the hull to fall past vertical before pulling up on the mast, so now the upper hull's weight is assisting in the righting.
I'm pretty sure that the 4 or 5 inches of release that the lever alone provides, would not be enough additional shroud length to be of use. AND for this system to work, the mast base HAS to be pinned to the mast step, or bad things happen. When the boat's back on her feet, one shroud is 30" too long, and the mast can flail about scarily. One needs to quickly get the boat onto the appropiate tack so that the mast is supported by the forestay and non lengthened shroud, and then scramble over to the leeward shroud, reattach it to the hyfield lever, close the lever, and scramble back to the tiller. This seems to me to be the toughest part of the job to do solo, being away from the tiller, on the leeward side, needing the boat to neither power up nor tack back while you're fussing with the shroud. All in conditions strong enough to flip you in the first place.
But we'd all love to hear from you if you want to give it try. It might be possible to bring the tiller extension with you to the leeward shroud, and control the boat's heading. Good luck!
I do wonder about Karl's suggestion about losing the masthead float. With a sealed mast, I can always get the mast tip free of the water, but I often seem to just barely have enough leverage to get the mast past horizontal. It seems the extra 5 lbs at the masthead would make it that much harder. Far from sure though.....

Dave

There is no debate. From a physics standpoint, it makes no difference whether the line goes over the hull or attaches to the inside of the beams. Over the hull may make the line a little easier to hold yourself on to with your hands - but it doesn't give you any additional leverage to right the boat. None, zip, zero. You weigh what you weigh, the boat weighs what it weighs. As long as neither one of you is moving in relation to the other (i.e., you are dangling off the end of the righting line), the position or angle of that line makes absolutely no difference on righting the boat because you are connected to the boat at all points (your feet and your hands) effectively making a closed system. Any angle change that you make with the line affects the amount of pressure your feet exert on the hulls and they cancel each other out. It's only about getting your weight out further from the CG of the boat to cause the CG of you+boat to move out beyond the pivot point so it will start to rotate up.

Jake,
As one I-20 skipper to another....would you recommend or not whether to stand on the boards in order to right the I-20. I want to sail solo, but have that concern. I'm 6'2" and 265

The boards will take the load just fine, but you can't really lay out like you can when you're standing on the hull.

This system is on the supercats and works well.. they have a captive ball on the mast so loose shrouds is not an issue.

i think that may be an issue on other boats without a captive ball system (not sure what yours has) and some cleats and/or lines may be needed to secure the mastbase to the ball if you use extenders...

not 100% sure but just a consideration that stopped me (and others) from adding them to my TheMightyHobie18 (when i owned it)

Karl,
So if I do use them, stay closer to the trunks?
thanks

Forrest
I-20

Maybe the hobiegary system is a good idea after all. I think the reason why it can be shorter than the pole at the center of the beam is that you can stand at the tip and lean further back, as in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg&list=HL1352215532&feature=mh_lolz

I'm not ordering one to Chile so I'll figure out how to do it myself. Instead of inserting something between the daggerboard and the trunk (I'm not sure there's enough room for that and I don't want it failing and damaging the tramp) I'm thinking to end the tube with a T with a loop of rope through the T. Then put the T above the daggerboard with the loop around it and slide it towards the hull. Then after righting I pull the daggerboard up to release the system. What scares me is that if I slide I may end up with the tube right in my a**... Probably a T on both sides is not a bad idea...
About length, the one on the video looks pretty short, a longer one may still be stored on the rear beam. Maybe I'll start with a longer one, stored along the tramp, towards one hull so that it doesnt' bother.

You can probably stand at the tip. I have, but I'm ~160lbs. You don't gain anything though. Like Jake said, its all about making the lever as long as possible.

Speak for yourself. There's more to the problem than physics, like balance, but I'm not even sure your analysis is valid.

In any case, I returned the under tramp system to the supplier and have used a simple rope over the hull ever since.

Ummm, no. It actually is ALL about physics.

Jake's explanation entirely valid and correct. The position of the rope has absolutely no bearing on whether or not you are able to right the boat, it only affects the forces felt by your body and the reactionary forces on the hull. All that matters is the location of your body's CG in relation to the CG of the boat, the pivot point of the system (lower hull), and any external forces acting on the system (wind & wave forces).

sm

Have you ever tried it? An under tramp righting system versus an over the hull system? I have and chose the more stable and efficient system as proven by my own experience on the water.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone use an under tramp system? I have never seen one deployed on the water, except my own, and no of no one who uses such a system.

It IS definitely easier to hold onto if it's thrown over the hull. The rope is loaded less with the less severe angle. It just doesn't help add righting moment to the system consisting of you and the boat.

I've definitely stood on the tips with no problem (at 175lbs) and would only move out further on the board as needed. Same with my F18. That makes a big difference in the righting leverage you can achieve.

Is it the one on this video? It is stored under the tramp but used over the hulls. About the discussion, I think everybody is right... It is easier to hold your weight with the rope over the hull, but besides making it easier (which matters, per your experience), it doesn't provide more righting moment.

Here's what I'm intending to do: I use a signle line over the hull, like you. But also have a chiken line with a carabiner, that goes inside the rear beam (kept inside with a bungee). I'll just make a loop on the signle line to attach the carabiner and I'll get two points of support. I never liked the idea of having a righting line above the tramp.

This video I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCbihZsXESg&list=HL1352215532&feature=mh_lolz

So, by that theory then, in regards to leverage points, a shorter gin pole will be just effective as one that's longer when raising your mast with the trailer winch? Just making a comparison to the dynamics here. Not sure if I agree with Jake's statement (assuming I understood him correctly).

diagrams,even ones with boobs

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubb...p;Words=boobs&Search=true#Post239275

The winch is external to your rotating system (mast), that would be like righting the cat from a motorboat, not standing on the hull.

The boobs diagram was wrong.. (except for the boobs)
The right one:

It appears there are differences of opinion here about what "leverage" means. Jake and srm are correct about the physics....the righting line position doesn't affect the righting moment. However, putting the line over the hull gives an angle that requires less force (strength) for one to hold his body weight up just above the water...and it makes balancing easier. This could be considered leverage as well, I suppose. Therefore, if it works and is easier under the hull, do that. Otherwise, fling it over.

I agree with Karl on the ditching mast float if possible. If the mast is sealed and you can tolerate the occasional turtle, get rid of the extra weight at the end of that long moment arm.

A few strategically placed knots in the righting line can be very beneficial...a couple for hand-holds/climbing and one placed where your butt is just above the water when you hook the righting line in your harness and lean out. The harness carries the load instead of your arms. Then you can fling your arms back like a rodeo cowboy (for additional moment) or use them to properly deploy the righting bag. The bag should be on a separate righting line, as far out as possible (over your shoulder), and just above the water as well. The problem is that, as the mast comes up, you and the bag go in the water and your bouancy neutralizes the righting force, so you (and the bag) have to get up higher. You have to climb your righting line some, and a 3:1 purchase with camcleat on the righting bag line is invaluable.

For reference, I'm short (~5'7"), weigh ~ 175 lbs., and can right my Hobie 16 using the large Murray's bag without the wind helping. I've righted it without the bag a few times in 15 mph+, but wouldn't come close without significant wind assistance.

No. Everyone I know keeps a line attached to the dolphin striker and stored in a bag on the tramp. When you go ever you must first do all that house keeping, then throw the line over the hull, get yourself situated securely, then fill a couple of black plastic garbage bags (one stuffed inside the other, they're kept in the bag with the line) with water and lift them into your lap. You will probably have to experiment with the right rope length but that should do it. If it doesn't I'd next try taking the mast float off, as Karl suggested.

I don't tie anything to my striker.

a plastic bag filled with water (or2) would never right my 5.5. I need 2 adults or 1 adult and a large murray's righting bag, and even then its a struggle)

The longer ginpole reduces the amount of load on the line much in the same way that having the righting line over the hull reduces the load you have to hold with your hands...but it doesn't change the total amount of force the mast needs to reach vertical or that the boat needs to be righted. Look at the two diagrams in the image below. The differences in the rope angle will not have any affect on the physics in the situation to help you right the boat. The rope in the top diagram will be easier to hang on to - but won't make the boat come up any faster.

This discussion is so useless.. but anyway..
In this case there is a difference. The maximum tension you can produce with the winch will be the same independently of the length of the ginpole. Therefore the torque that can be applied to the mast may change with the length of the ginpole. It's not the same case as the person hanging on the rope, becaue the winch is not rotating with the mast, it's external to the rotating system. The person, on the other hand, has nothing external to the rotating system to grab and increase any force. His weight is fixed so the only thing he can do is move it around.

But the winch won't help on board.. unless you tie it to the mast float, swim away with it and turn the handle REALLY fast...
Maybe use the righting bag as a sea anchor..

Or have one for each shroud and change the mast angle.....

I have used righting poles and ropes here are definate facts
I made my first righting pole too short and it didn't work, I made a longer one and it worked. Its just a lever it has to work the only limitation is how far you get from the pivot point. Further out the more leveredge.
I have used righting ropes on many cats, the under tramp system is neat and great when it works but if you can't get your cat back up throw the rope over the hulls like I did and you will never go back to an under tramp system. The reason over hull system works is you are adding more height to your leveredge by pulling the object from higher thereby increasing the leveredge on the object. When you pull a tree over you don't tie your rope around the middle you tie it around the top

Because you are standing on the ground. If you were standing on the tree it wouldn't make much difference, other than tension the rope more or less.

I just got a nice windsurf mast for 20 bucks. I'll test it to figure out the right length and then cut it. Thanks everybody.

I understand how clingy this idea is but it's just not true. I have a degree in this. It makes it easier to hold on to the rope but will not give you more mechanical advantage to right the boat because you and the boat are essentially a "closed system". You are attached to the boat at every point - your feet, your arms, the rope. The only thing that affects the physics of righting the boat is how far you extend your weight from the center of rotation (the hull in the water). You move your weight out to move the center of gravity for the system (you, the boat, the lift of the sails) past the pivot point to the underside of the boat so it will start to rotate and right itself.

Leave it as is, the world seems up-side-down today anyway!

I totally agree with that, Jake.
And getting your weight more outboard can only be done with a pole.

A simple but strong enough pole with on one end a forkisch like end-piece which you put and let rest in the corner of the forebeam and the down-hull will do (the other pole end is attached to the uphaul line which comes from above.

Now a very simple method of testing this and determing the appropriate lenght of the pole (and the length of the uphaulline) is "dry-swimming".
Pull your cat, fully rigged, on a beach on its side. Mount your pole and try to lift everything back. Imitate if your on the water.

Bare in mind that an actual capsized position in the water is less difficult (or at least the same) then what you have just tried. Because in the water the down-hull is deeper in the water then on the sand. (Assuming that the masttop in the watersituation is just level with the surface, so use a ball!)

ronald reeder

Wish I had a link to show the photos of Hobie Gary's system "The Solo Right". He mad a "lever" (usually out of an oar) that had a small plastic "wafer" on the paddle end that would keep the end in the dagger board pocket. Then there were two lines, one that attached to each crossbar at the hull intersection. The lever/oar was made to angle up slightly out over the water by the length of each line. Then you took your regular righting line out with you as you stepped back out on the lever/oar. As the boat came up, you went hand over hand up the righting line and the boat righted.
He made the same type of system for my H21se out of a H16 boom with some non skid tape on it. It worked perfect. I was able to right that boat solo with that system.

Hey Guys,
I changed my shroud adjusters to the cantalever kind. I capsized on myself hiked out on the trapeze. Instead of pulling on the righting bar I made the difficult climb to the high shroud adjuster to pull the pin. The net effect on the center gravity was radicaly changed by extending the shroud out 5 inches. I don't think it will self right but it helps.

Holdyourcourse,
J.P.Ayers
Isotope 186

I'm not good enough with computers to do a diagram, can somebody overlay andanistas drawing with somebody pulling down with their arms so all of their weight is a further 2ft out, even though their toes are balancing on the boat, like I would do if the boat wasn't coming up.

Jeff,

I'm too lazy to do your sketch, but you get the same effect by just raising your arms as you do holding the rope above your head.

This is the image I've just posted over at Sailing Anarchy (for the one or two of you who don't visit both sites). As people have been trying to explain, while your feet are on the hull there is no advantage in putting the righting rope over the hull except it is easier to hold, however, at some stage you come off the hull during righting and this is when the over the hull system becomes superior.


Using a righting pole is different as it allows you to move your weight away from the hull immediately.

Are you saying that if I couldn't right the cat and I put all my weight on the over the hull rope by hanging of it, no feet on the deck, it would be more beneficial

Jake, it must have frooze over! I totally agree with you! ;-)

That's true. But when you come off the hull I suspect that you are already done and it might even be better to have less lever arm, so that the boat comes out slowly

no because you would have a very small lever (about 300mm as against the 1200mm shown above)

By the time the boat get's to the 3rd position, I'm usually heading for the dolphin striker brace to keep it from going over the other way.

This guy's system looks promising.....a lot like Hobie Gary's:

http://tinyurl.com/au5w2ka


http://tinyurl.com/a2lu356

well, I guess you could wear heels or platform shoes, too...

Yes Jay, and you could also wear a nice dress too.

But you brought me on a new idea: You can also hang yourself with your harness on the uphaulline (which is hanging over the tophull) and push your self outside with a pole against frontbeam/hull ......

ronald

Ronald, I'd try a diagram first. I used to do hang gliding and the steering on those is exactly like righting a cat (but easier). Its a weight-shift system.

The problem with hanging your weight off the higher hull (once its past vertical) is that your CG probably doesn't change much, your legs are further from the rotational center of the boat but your arms and head are closer.

In hang-gliding its called cross-correction which translates to ineffective steering due to minimal net change in the CG of the pilot.

You may need to "walk tall and carry a big stick" like Churchill once advised ;-)

Anyhow, in my experience the hardest part is lengthwise stability, you tend to sway from bow to stern while balancing in any waves. Makes it really hard to keep your weight out where it counts. Maybe some kind of Hawaiian righting line and a pole combination would work best?

Yes Dennis, I agree with you.

After one night sleep, my idea was already vanished.

Problem is that I sail only with wind mostly more then 15 knots. Therefor after the righting itself, there is always this risk on flipping through to the other side.
This is especially true for a single-handed sailer who tends to swim his sails more off the wind for support.

So when the mast comes up, I'm used to dive to the leeward hull in order to keep it down.
Hanging with my hook on a uphaulline is working contra.

ronald

Problem solved! I took a windsurf mast and made a righting pole. Instead of inserting some sort of spatula into the daggerboard trunk, I attached a loop of strap at the end of the pole and the daggerboard goes through this loop. The loop is long enough so that the pole doesn't bite the hull. It worked great. I didn't cut the pole, I just store it under the tramp, along one hull. At the front beam it goes between the dolphin striker strap and the beam, so it doesn't touch the hull. I used a unique line that starts at one end of the rear beam , goes forward to a fixed loop at the forward beam (same side), then along the front beam to a loop at the other end and then back to the rear beam. I take the extra length of line to either side depending on which side the boat capsized. There's a knot with a little loop at the right position on each side, that attaches to a carabiner at the pole. I also set a second line for support at the middle of the pole (between the carabiner in one end and the daggerboard in the other). The line for this one goes from the middle of one beam through a fairlead at the pole (running free, not tied in) to the middle of the other beam. I intend to manage the excess of line length with bungies and a couple carabiners, to minimize the set up and the storage time. I'm not quite there yet but almost..

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKuSSZ7JxBA&feature=youtu.be

At the risk of resurrecting a lengthy debate I have to comment and solicit further response. I agree it is all about the physics. As a chemical engineer, I am familiar with the concepts dicussed but not an expert in this area. But I think one aspect of the physics may be missing here. By saying that the angle of the righting line does not matter, I think you are assuming that the feet of the sailor can put torgue on the lower hull. This is not the case since the sailer's feet are not rigidly attached to the hull. For example if there was a rigid rod extending from the bottom hull through the sailer's body then there would be no need for a righting line as the sailor's weight would be transfed as torque directlyon the bottom hull. Since the feet aren't rigidly attached they can't apply force to right the cat, all the righting force mush come via the righting line. So, if it were true that the righting line angle did not matter then you should be able to tie the righting line to the lower beam right next to the bottom hull and still be able right the boat. In a less extreme case, it should be equally as easy to right the boat if you tied off to the mast base? In other words I'm suggesting that the lower you tie the rope the more difficult it would be to right the boat. I haven't tried either approach so please correct me if you have experience that says otherwise. So, my contention is that while there may be only a slight or negligble differnce going over the hull or diretly to the upper beam, the angle of the rope does matter and as you approach the extreme positions it's impact becomes greater.

At the risk of rekindling this lengthy debate I have to comment and solicit further response. I agree it is all about the physics. As a chemical engineer, I am familiar with the concepts dicussed but not an expert in this area. But I think one aspect of the physics may be missing here. By saying that the angle of the righting line does not matter, I think you are assuming that the feet of the sailor can put torgue on the lower hull. This is not the case since the sailer's feet are not rigidly attached to the hull. For example if there was a rigid rod extending from the bottom hull through the sailer's body then there would be no need for a righting line as the sailor's weight would be transfed as torque directlyon the bottom hull. Since the feet aren't rigidly attached they can't apply force to right the cat, all the righting force must come via the righting line. So, if it were true that the righting line angle did not matter then you should be able to tie the righting line to the lower beam right next to the bottom hull and still be able right the boat?? In a less extreme case, per ur assumptions it should be equally as easy to right the boat if you tied off to the mast base? I don't think this is the case for either of these examples and I'm suggesting that the lower you tie the rope the more wieght it would take to right the boat and not sure you could right it tied of at the bottom hull?? I haven't tried either approach so please correct me if you have experience that says otherwise. So, my contention is that while it may be true that there is only a slight or negligble differnce going over the hull or diretly to the upper beam, the angle of the rope does matter and as you approach the extreme positions it's impact becomes greater.

No.. All the righting force comes from the sailor weight. The line and his feet only help him keep his position, as far out as possible. If the line is attached lower, near the bottom hull it turns harder and harder for him to keep in place, that's all. The righting moment doesn't change as long as he's able to hold on

You could also take the guy out of the analysis and think of line tension and his feets force against the hulls. In that case, as the attachment point goes down, the line tension increases, but the distance that make the torque (or the cosine of the angle) decreases in the same measure.

Under your same logic you could conclude that it's better to attach the trap wire at the top of the mast. In terms of righting moment it's not. In terms of wire tension yes, a little bit but it doesn't hurt the final goal which is producing torque.

It's a funny discussion, but as somebody said previously, there's no discusion...

There's no discussion because people have already made up their minds but there is more righting moment in over the hull than under. In all of scarecrows pictures there is no righting moment because the person is lying in the water if you drew a picture comparing the proper stance it may become more obvious

The lower the line, the harder it is to hold on to - but it doesn't change the static equation. If the sailor, the line, and and the boat are not moving in relationship to each other, no change in the position angle, length of the line will affect the amount of righting force being applied. The line weight is negligible and the center of the weight doesn't change either. Only the sailors weight and position is important - not how he's braced there.

In all those diagrams, it shows the beams perpendicular to the water.

Are we discussing the difficulties associated with getting the boat past this point?

Last I checked when we were over, the beams were actually past 90 degrees to the water, since the tip of the mast was in the water.... Is this perpendicular point that which the greatest torque/force must be applied to continue the righting of the boat, since the sail/mast is out of the water (and applying the greatest resistance to your rotational effort)?

Anecdotal evidence in my own personal experience, getting the main clear of the water was the hardest part. Once the water was off the sail it seemed to go vertical much more easily.

And how would standing on the tip of the lower daggarboard change the force/torque diagram?

With or without (like I was just standing on the board) the righting line being applied?

Once again, this analysis is correct.

The position of the line has no bearing on the amount of righting moment applied to the system. Another way of looking at it- if you were able to make your body completely rigid and affix your feet to the bottom hull, there would be no need for the righting line (essentially make yourself a cantilever beam). You would have exactly the same amount of righting moment without the line.



Standing on the tip of the daggerboard makes the sailor taller, i.e., it move's your CG farther away from the bottom hull (the fulcrum) so it increases the righting moment of the system.

For example, if you're 6 feet tall & 200LBS, with your CG 4feet up from your feet, then leaning horizontally, you can produce a righting moment of 800 FT-LB. If you stand 2 feet out on the daggerboard, you can now produce 1200 FT-LB, so you increase righting moment by 50%.

sm

Because the whole thing is to be considered as a closed static system, it is theoretically not interesting where the x-axle is. In other words it makes no difference that the mast is beyond his perpendicular point.

But, but..... Ofcourse there is the matter of water in the mainsail. That's a breaking force ofcourse, so maybe you have to get rid of that water first (swimming to the top).
After that it should even be easier because the leaning from the masttop on the water will take some weight away.

You can easily demonstrate this to yourself the next time you'r fully rigged on the beach: attach a rope to a trapezewire and pull the cat over on its side.
Now it's lying with the rig down on the ground supporting on the masttop. Start hanging on your uphaulline and in case your weight is critical you will see that with the initial pull you lift the whole thing easy one or two feet from the ground. Then it will stop and you can pull what you want, but it won't go further then that.

(At the same time the non-believers of the static system can easily check their own theory of the lower attachment of the uphaulline.)

However the experience on the water which Jay describes differs a bit from the above described, but first let me say that he is right; his description is also mine and I think it is the common experience.

This phenomenon has to be explained by the force in the mainsail which is starting to catch wind. By the way if you haven't unsheeted the jib, it will definitly catch even earlier. (But this will lead also to headway after the righting of the cat.)

ronald

OK, a question for non-believers:
I have my righting pole, it is attached with two lines below the hulls, one forward and one aft. But I also use a line over the hulls that I hold with my hands. Would that be average between the two cases? Should I tension more with the hands?


Regarding the analysis only at right angle, I say nothing changes in the analysis as long as you are still standing on your feet, lets say 10° towards one side or the other. At some point after you succeeded to raise the mast above the horizontal, you come to a point where you are hanging from the rope rather than standing on the lower hull. When that happen, yes, it's better than the rope is over the hulls, but that's way after the critical point. Success is not conditionned by that situation. Maybe it doesn't even help, actually. As soon as you passed the equilibrium you want it to go slow so that it doesn't go the other way.

Not sure how many times it needs to be repeated, but apparently at least one more time... the angle of the line(s) has no bearing on whether or not the boat is righted. Over the hull, under the hull, using a righting pole, holding with your hands, holding with your harness, or holding with your teeth, it makes no difference. All that matters is the horizontal distance of your center of gravity from the fulcrum (which is the center of bouyancy of the lower hull). How you get your CG into position only effects the reactionary forces on your body (your comfort level), it does not effect the righting moment applied to the boat.

It is just like the teeter-totter we played on in elementary school- the rig is at one end, you're at the other end, and the hull is in the middle. Weight times horizontal distance.

sm

I'm with you amigo...

I guess I'm a semi-believer as I think there is still something missing. The following quote I think points us to where there is a problem in the assumptions.

"Another way of looking at it- if you were able to make your body completely rigid and affix your feet to the bottom hull, there would be no need for the righting line (essentially make yourself a cantilever beam). "

I agree with this statement. The problem is that in reality we can't rigidly affix our feet to the hull and thus our feet cannot apply leverage or righting force to the hull and the righting force must be transmitted through the line. While it may not make much difference whether the line is tied at the top beam or over the top hull, as you progressively lower the tie point it seems you will eventually reach a point where your inability to be a "fixed cantilever beam" will prevent righting of the boat. I don't know where that point is but if line position didn't matter everyone would tie off at the bottom beam where it is easier to reach? Since I can't fully grasp all the physics involved, I'm going to have to do some experiments with my cat in a calm lagoon this spring and see it for myself.

Higher line = lower tension. That makes a good reason to run the line above the hull. But it doesn't give more righting moment.

Rope Tension = W /(cos a)
Righting moment (*) = W * d

Where
a= angle of the rope against the vertical (0 = vertical, 90° = horizontal)
W is your weight
d = horizontal distance between your center of mass and the hull (or the axis on which the boat rotates while righting )

No "a" on the second formula.. that is all the point of the discussion. Of course if a = 90° or close you cannot right the boat. That's probably what makes people skeptical

(*) That is the righting moment that you produce, not the total righting moment. It has to overcome the opposite moment produced by the mast, etc.

OK - I can't help myself - time to throw my 2 pennies in.

Its been many years, but I remember the term "force couple" being used in applying torque to a system. There are several forces being applied to the boat. In addition to windage, wave forces, etc. there is the CG and the CB.

Regarding CB, assuming you have enough buoyancy in the mast not to go turtle, you end up in a stable position where the CG of the boat is nestled between the buoyancy forces of the mast and hull.

Regarding the CG, since we are on the boat, we are effectively part of it from a calculation standpoint. By using the righting line and leaning out we move our body mass such that the CG of the boat+person system moves outside the stable point between the two buoyancy forces. Once that happens you have a force couple (CB pushing up and CG pulling down) and the boat begins to rotate.

Again, the mass of our body is connected to the vessel both through the righting line and our feet so we are part of it. If we move the righting line far enough away from the CB we don't have to use our feet and as we dangle from it, the force on the rope is simply our weight. If we have a long enough (and strong enough) dagger or righting arm to stand on, we don't need a righting line, so rope force = zero. Key point is getting the CG of our body outward as far as possible so we move the CG of the boat+person system past the stability point between the hull+mast buoyancy.

By moving the rope attachment point down (toward the dolphin striker or below), the rope force on our hands goes up - presumably to infinity if the attachment point gets low enough. Moving the rope up or over the hull reduces the force, thus the intuitive feeling that there is better leverage. Neither of these make the boat right any faster <unless> due to strength limitation or other reason they allow you to get your body CG further outboard.

Somewhere along the line in this interminable but legitimate discussion, someone introduced the concept of "acceleration" by changing the direct of the line. I confess to not understanding the idea even a little.

Next thing you know, you'll be telling me an ice tray full of hot water will freeze faster than a cold one due to thermal acceleration.

Your position contradicts my personal findings in the field. Others disagree with you in theory.

Yes

Exactly.

All the boat/system "cares" about is location of CG relative to location of CB. How this is achieved is inconsequential- righting line over the hull, under the hull, stand on a dagger board, righting pole, nail your feet to the hull and stand out real straight. It doesn't matter. Moving your CG outboard is all that matters.

For those that still believe that the routing of the righting line has some effect on whether or not the boat is righted, take a look at every monohull dinghy in the world...they right their boats by standing on the dagger board using NO RIGHTING LINE. The key is simply to get your weight as far outboard as possible, how this is done makes no difference.

sm

Christ, I love this part. "But by the 20th century the phenomenon was only known as common folklore, until it was reintroduced to the scientific community in 1969 by Mpemba, a Tanzanian high school pupil."

Holy cow! It's on the internet! It must be true!


by the way, that article offers no evidence that it exists, only possibilities (external to the water) as to why it might happen. There is no such thing as thermal acceleration. If the hotter water freezes faster it is a result of some other circumstances (hotter subject causing the freezer to increase cooling capacity, currents in the hot water, etc.). Added to which "hotter" here is a very unspecific clause...are we talking 33 degrees vs. 110 degrees or 33 vs. 33.1?.

I implore anyone here to try it and show me how you beat physics.

And how the hell did Aristotle get a freezer? His experience was likely more related more to radiant cooling on a cloudless night (why you can freeze water outside on a clear night even if the outdoor temperature doesn't get to freezing) or evaporative cooling.

If there is no such thing as thermal acceleration, why did you introduce it into the the discussion?

I introduced the word "acceleration" without modifier and freely admitting I did not understand the concept in response to post #256774.

What is your intent here?

should have kept reading...

I've debated this elsewhere and the general premise is that there is thermal "acceleration". As such, the "reason" hot water would freeze faster than cold water (everything else being the same) is that the hot water cools at a faster rate (true because the initial temperature difference is larger) and that it maintains this cooling rate "momentum" so it freezes faster (not true). The problem is that there is no cooling "momentum". When that water reaches the same temperature that the other one was at (previously), it is cooling at the same rate that the other one was when it was at that temperature. It won't cool faster because it had a higher cooling rate previously....all things being equal.

I've always understood it using hot, like almost boiling our boiling water, will freeze faster than cool water just because of evaporation making it cool more quickly.

I don't know, that was high school physics, and a quite a few empty bottles ago.

Does it really matter? Are we that bored?

if the water is evaporating, wouldn't there be less to cool?

Hasn't Jake already made a carbon-fiber resin infused test chamber for this experiment? Complete with wrap-around graphics?

When water turns from liquid to vapor, it cools. Same reason we sweat.

But...when you are cooler, you become more dense, thus weighing more, so you can right your cat, just as soon as you cool down enought to tip the CG past the CB, which is a BFD if you're not wearing your PFD, you could be DSQ'd.

+1

And if the water is warm you recover your normal density and that explains why sometimes the cat tips over to the other side..

Wait a minute. When I'm cool I don't get more dense.. I get smaller!

try it.


and...yes.

noooo, we sweat because all the alcohols in our system has to escape, and you can only pee so much

Yup, and at some point, it is the same temperature as the other water started at...so is it still cooling faster?

Couldn't tell ya, I'm just regurgitating what I was fed in high school. Neither would surprise me, water has many strange qualities unlike any other element.

The Specific Heat of Water

Basic thermo.... Q = m Cp dT

Translation... Jake is right.

sm

Not sure how many times it needs to be repeated, but apparently at least one more time... the angle of the line(s) has no bearing on whether or not the boat is righted. Over the hull, under the hull, using a righting pole, holding with your hands, holding with your harness, or holding with your teeth, it makes no difference. All that matters is the horizontal distance of your center of gravity from the fulcrum (which is the center of bouyancy of the lower hull). How you get your CG into position only effects the reactionary forces on your body (your comfort level), it does not effect the righting moment applied to the boat.

It is just like the teeter-totter we played on in elementary school- the rig is at one end, you're at the other end, and the hull is in the middle. Weight times horizontal distance.

sm [/quote]

If you had a proper diagram in front of you it would be obvious that your weight is 18 inches or more further out when you use over the hull and pull with your hands from above your head, which is a handy increase in leverege, in all of Scarecrows diagrams there is no righting moment at all because all of the people pictured are laying in the water.

Nothing is ever quite as simple as it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_acceleration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_velocity

I'll leave you to do the math.

I am certain, absolutely, the best solution is one which is proven and reliable.

So what?
O is the hull, P is the butt. No line on the math

Return to start. For me and many others bringing a line over the hull is a simple and effective solution.

I just resist being told what works in practice doesn't really work and I should be using a different system.

If you are holding the rope with your hands there's no doubt it's better, beacause it requires less force to hold your weight. That's it. It doesn't mean it will provide more lever arm, it will just be easier for the same effect. The effect is only dependant on how far out is your weight.
Now this discussion is poitnless anyway.. Bring the line wherever you want, it's not that you are compromising anything else.
BUT.
For setting up a righting pole it is worth to realise this mathematical and empirical fact (it doesn't matter whether the line is above or below the hulls in terms of lever arm). Why? Just because it's way easier to set the lines below the hulls. Making efforts to do otherwise is pointless.

This case for instance:
http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=44504&hilit=righting&start=15
Instead of passing the line around the above hull he could just shackle it to the beams.
Like mine here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKuSSZ7JxBA
It has worked three times already, by the way.. two for testing and one for real

You've sold yourself on the need for an apparatus, fine. Find the right one, learn how to use and you'll have no problem.

In the mean time you make several assumptions that I'm not going to argue over.

Most of us throw a rope over the hull and do just fine.

For the complete picture: with a pole it's easier to set the auxiliary lines below the hulls!
I use even two help-lines:

One set to the middle of the beam-height running from front to aft (for keeping the pole swing-free straight out). And one line running from front to aft, attached just below the uppper hull.
Holding this line, I use it for keeping my balance when standing on the end of the pole.

The pole itself is fixed to the end of a traditional uphaul line over the upperhull (That was the easiest mounting).

I,ve said it before in this thread: please go out with a bundle of rope and try it on your cat in the water or on the beach

ronald

It is, after all, a safety system. That it works is all that really matters.

I'm reluctant to relate my experience to yours. Normally I sail in the Gulf of Mexico which usually placid, perhaps a little chop, nothing like what I imagine the North sea to be like. Just be safe. I got knocked down once in the Gulf Stream off Singer Island, the wind coming out of the north and found it very difficult to keep my footing in the resultant sea state.

Evaporative cooling and sweating

I have a few degrees here, Karl, you are also aware that sweating in a humid environment, as in building up sweat on your skin, actually limits the cooling process.
That's one of the systems the designers didn't get quite right. Once the sweat builds up on your skin, you limit the 'cooling' It has to evaporate to cool.
But the system doesn't kknow that, so when you are hotter, you sweat even more, while it is not evaporating- thus loosing even more 'water' from your system, while producing less evaporation, or cooling.
I just cleared another 3" of snow from my Boat yesterday, so yes, I'm just that bored!

I did
Ok, no arguing. Haven't seen any argument so far anyway.

To answer your comment Pete: don't be reluctant and/or impressed by the Northsea.

With regard to righting a capseized cat, a wavy condition on the northsea will always help you by lifting the masttop for free.
Normally a rope thrown over the hull will do!
Besides that, in waves there is no time for hocus-pocus.

This pole-business which I have mounted on my cat is therefor more a safety in case the uphaulrope don't work for any reason.

For instance on flat water (off shore wind). And in this situation there is also more time for the whole setup of a pole.


Starting-point for a seasailor should always be: I have to return on my own force. Avoid Pan-Pan and try to postpone untill a real mayday.

ronald

I got whacked in the back of the head by the boom on my H16 once. I was about two miles off shore of Ft. Myers beach. It dazed me for a moment and I thought, "this is probably not a good idea" sailing alone.

You try to be safe but when it's your time...

Look Pete, when it's your time, you go anyway (hit by a car, or a wild gunshooter, or cancer, or whatever).

But sailing solo is the most satisfying thing I know.

Though it needs a special state of mind and certainly a specific concentration.
Doing it often enough, you finally endup relaxing yourself during sailing; trusting your intuition.

It certainly demands you to strive for safety in an exaggerated way.
And it will make you more prudent inside your mind then some people might think on the face of it.

This summer I plan to video one time all my safety measures on my cat, just to show this idea.

ronald

Perhaps a swim noodle wrapped around the boom might have reduced the chance for serious injury?

Or a hemmit & dem shouldamapads?

or wrapped around ones head

Okay, PGP was so honest to tell us about his little adventure when sailing solo.

I'm very curious to similar stories of all the other old-hands. Accidents, injuries, etc.; but only in the situation that you were alone on the tramp.
Lacking company for mental or fysical help.

Who dares.

I like to learn from it.

ronald

Damn near knock my front teeth out getting off the beach in weird shifty winds last spring

I suppose it was a swinging boom that did hit you???

Sounds familiar (broke my nose once under same conditions)

So, that's two similar experiences make a lesson. Thanks Karl


ronald

Forrest had to circle back, douse a spin, and come find my sorry butt during my "dolphin encounter" at 2011 Hiram's.

Good thing it was in the river/intracoastal so I couldn't float out to sea.

Bad thing I was wearing black and hard to find in the dark water. I could see him just fine


Incident occurred after a miss-timed puff pushed us over on spin reach. I didn't even get wet on that flip. I did the "Jdub-scramble" over the upper hull and sat on upper daggarboard while we got organized.

After righting, we took off again, but got a spin sheet under the windward hull. I slid forward to the bow to pull it back over the hull and slipped between the hulls into the water.

I held on to the rear beam but was getting dragged too quickly to climb back on board and didn't want to damage anything (tiller crossbar, rudder foil,etc) trying to wrestle back on, so I dropped off.

I commend the skipper for being able to execute a gybe/douse singlehanded (on a 20) in moderate (15+) breeze and come get me.

I think that rule about "having to finish with the same number of crew that you started" might have been my only saving grace....


I can't remember who it was in the Tybee/Worrell that had the skipper washed off the back... in the dark... offshore..and the crew not notice...

Was it Jake or Todd?

That was an exiting story, Jay.
But did you realize that this is exactly the ultimate nightmare of a solo sailor; loosing your boat. Slipping or being washed off.

Two questions: Did you have a lifejacket and did you have a cellphone on you?

Your story brings back my memories on similar occasions.
I have almost lost my cat in three situations. In two, I was also washed under the tramp, but because my tramp is a net, I could grap and hold myself long enough under the open-net to think of a method of working myself again on board.
The third time I was struck over the side-board falling backwards. The grabbing lines which I mounted over the lenght of both hulls saved me this time.

Beyond this first degree safety, I always, always wear a lifejacket and a cellphone. Safety over safety.

Nevertheless, it remains a horrifying story, Jay and it brings back anxious moments.

It also learns me that being with more then one sailor, there is more risk of loosing one. So sailing solo makes that danger smaller, but creates a nightmare when it happens to the solo-sailor itself.


ronald

It wasn't nearly as dramatic as it may have sounded, ronald, but thanks for the feedback.

I guess I was confident of my self-rescue ability and was not injured so I didn't feel too much drama. I also knew that the driver was still on the boat and conditions were far from terrible.

That being said, in any distance race (point-to-point) I sail with at least:
- GPS
- VHF
- personal strobe light (attached to PFD)
- Cell phone
- Emergency kit (mirror, whistle, air horn, small flares, dye marker, inflatable dive "sausage")
- peanut butter sandwich & energy bars
- up to 3 liters of drinking water in a hydration bladder

All fits in a 'Camelback' backpack with integrated hydration system. I have dry pouches on the electronics with lanyards attached to the pack.

This pack fits over my PFD and has both waist and chest straps to keep it secured in place on my person.

As long as I am conscious, I can use the contents of the pack to summon help or assist with others finding me.

One thing I would add if I went all "super-stud distance guy" and participated in any serious coastal or offshore sailing (like Tybee, GT-300, or when the plan is to go more than 10k offshore) would be a personal EPIRB and perhaps a second inflatable PFD stuffed in my pack to use for additional flotation if I felt it was up to me alone to get back to shore.

All of these items are useful if I remain on a boat (say after a dismasting out of sight of land, etc.) as well, but they are best on my person in the instance I were separated from the boat.

Personally, I would not be comfortable single-handing a boat beyond sight of land unless it was an emergency. Within site of land (and therefore swimming distance), I would worry that I'd never see the boat again, and have thought of rigging some sort of "kill switch" on the boat.

This "kill switch" might be a lanyard attached to me that would pull on a snap-shackle at the bottom of the mainsheet block, thereby disengaging the mainsail if I were overboard.

My only concern would be possibly having the spinnaker up if I were to fall over (single-handing). Would activating this "kill switch" damage the mast? Perhaps not, as the spin sheet would likely be running free since I'm not holding it ?

That list was quite impressive, Jay. Thanks for your exposé.

I always thought that I was a safety-guy, but you beat me with ease.
Still I have a question about your idea of getting back to shore alone.

I first have to say that Holland is a very crowded little country, so the infrastructure is very "fine-meshed", also in the coastal area on the northsea.
For instance I live in a small village who has a fully manned rescueboat 24h on standby (and ofcourse I know all these guys personally). So that makes calling for help (everywhere cellphone coverage till 10 miles offshore) rather easy. Going 15 miles up north or south there is already the next village with his own rescueboat.

I suppose that this might be different in the States, or in your place. That should explain your safety-stratecy.

Moreover I have to admit that maybe twenty years ago I was able to swim to the shore alone (at least when it was insight), but nowadays that's an illusion for me.
Besides that, wearing a hudge lifejacket with collar makes swimming anyway impossible. I know that there are PFD's for swimming (for instance used in kayaking) but I was once knockedout unconsciousness in a breaking wave during windsurfing. Hence the giant lifejacket.

You bring up an interesting point concerning a "killing-switch" (emergency release) which can be operated in an overboard situation. I've puzzled about that also already a long time; combined with the idea of a tether-line to keep you anyhow near the cat.

Last year there was in the Europenian Yachting magazines a big discussion about this tether issue and going again onboard after being washed-off.

I'v tried several ideas on my cat, but I'm not yet out of it. Problem is with cat's that any extra line is also again a riskfactor with regard to winding up, catching behind something, etc.


ronald

With a self tacking jib, the boat just wants to turn down, easing the main just promotes that further. If you can sheet it hard dragging behind the boat it will want to round up, and/or hopefully go over. But, if it's windy, you still won't catch it unless it goes turtle, which is unlikely with no one on board.

I watched my FXone drift away on it's side in Florida a few years ago, fortunately it was at a regatta and a H16 team scooped me up and deposited me back with my boat. That was a shitty feeling.

If I were sailing alone, I'd probably not be sailing with the jib. this may solve the issue there.

I would also be pleasure sailing, not racing, so I could get by with a little extra equipment on board to keep me attached or in proximity of the boat.

I would figure a "kill-switch" system would do one or several of the following:
- stop the boat
- turn the boat upwind (stopping progress)
- flip the boat (stopping progress)

As for a tether, I think it might work well (as long as there is a way to detach from the tether if you're getting dragged to death). I figured if I were washed over with the mainsail cleated on a reach, it might take a long time for the boat to round up and stop. Releasing the main via the snap shackle on the block might help achieve that faster?

Perhaps in addition to this tether which pops the mainsheet, it would remain connected to the boat on one end and a sea-drogue at the other end? That way I could either remain attached to the tether (and therefore the boat) or deploy the drogue (or both) to attempt to slow the boat's progress and direction?

sounds good on paper...
would you really sail without a jib?

The only times I've been separated from a boat (multi or mono) have been in regatta situations. It was therefore easy to signal someone for assistance.

ronald appears to be sailing in the North Atlantic either by himself or with limited numbers of other boats, where it might be less likely to gain assistance if something were to happen. In cases like these, you have to me more self-reliant.

My only "self-rescue" was in a different sport - scuba diving in the late 80's. My idiot friends (two boats) all took off and left two of us on a reef about 6 miles offshore. The "I thought they were with you..." excuse.

So, it was a relatively long day for us (eventually got picked up by a commercial dive boat about 2 miles west of us). And, being it was scuba diving, I had no self-rescue gear (gps, vhf, food, etc). What I continue to reflect on was the psychology of the event...

The first few minutes were the disbelief. No Boat? can't be. WTF?

That morphed into a mild panic-like state. Too many JAWS movies to be sure... I guess this could have evolved into full-blown hysteria if you let it...

Once it was determined that (1) those guys really were idiots, (2) yes, we're on our own out here and (3) it will be dark in about 5 hours, I just sort of changed into an acceptance of the situation and started a slow swim toward land with my dive partner.

Only shear panic situation was a commercial freighter that got awfully close and most likely never saw us. Thoughts of getting sucked in and chewed up in a giant propeller ran through my head. It was close enough that the vibration of the engines was pulsing through my chest. I'd say we probably passed within 100 feet or so of this giant cargo ship.

After that, it was just an afternoon swim/drift westward with the hope of eventually running into land. After about 2 hours we sighted a boat and waved our dive sausages until they saw us.

But my idiot friends did buy drinks that night so I guess it all worked out.

I would imagine if I were out uni-sailing I'd be on a uni-rig boat (like an F16, WAVE, or something). I've only sailed an N20 once or twice solo, and it was in a lake setting.

If I were out with crew, that's a different issue..

Good reason to always surface with a decent residual PSI in your tank ... You never know when you'll need to duck under to save yourself from freighters or partying yahoo's out on the water.

I keep forgetting about it - but I had a pocket sewn into the bottom of my F18 trampoline to house a drag chute (aka "drift sock") that I could clip to the dolphin striker, run a line through another carabiner freshly clipped to the forestay, and then tossed in the water. The idea is that it slows the boat moving through the water and keeps the bows pointed into the wind while capsized and immediately after righting. You should be able to reel it back in from the line clipped to the dolphin striker once you have everything sorted. If you have to get undeway quickly (to retrieve a sailor), just leave the drift sock pulled up the forestay bridle and deal with it later. This could come in useful if one of us gets separated from the boat. I keep forgetting to buy the drift sock to try it out.

Todd Hart fell off my boat in the GT300 one year. The seas were so big, I lost sight of him pretty fast...as I was flipping over. Luckily the waves were big enough that I was able to right the N20 by myself. By that time, one other team nearly ran him over, then stopped to pick him up. We then coordinated coming together and Todd was able to step back onto my boat. I still can't believe we were successfull on the first try in waves that big. That was a fun day. I think the team that picked him up was more freaked out about the situation than we were. Before the other team snatched him up, I just figured I would take the boat into shore and waite for him to wash up....like garbage.

i had a little incident that shook me up a few years ago. I had only had my 5.5 for a little while, and was still learning how to sail it (big upgrade from my TheMightyHobie18)

We had just left a beach front tiki hut with food and drinks (Shells). the wind and waves were picking up as we left, but it seemed very manageable.

Belly full of great food, and a few rums in me, I jumped on the wire while sailing (west) out the Sand Key Pass. as i got into the gulf and headed north. my cat got turned around in a wind shift, and pretty fierce current change, and the boat capsized on top of me while on the wire.

I was getting tossed around with the surf pretty badly. I was trying to get my righting bag together but another cat was trying to give me some "assistance" from the water. he was trying to sail by me, grab the mast head, and lift it up a few feet. First attempt he ran into and got tangled in my spin bridal wires, second attempt he ran into my spin pole, third attempt he hit and dented my mast, 4th attempt he actually grabbed it and by then i had my bag full of water.

As the cat righted, the rudders landed and ended up in the water, and the jib filled with air ... the boat took off on me.

I held onto the righting line with all i had, and did a hand over hand climb back to the boat. I struggled to get on the still moving boat and was JUST able to get on the boat. I was completely drained of strength at this point.

Everyone around me (on other cats) was yelling that i was heading right into a wooden pilling (swim area markers off clearwater beach). When i tried to steer away, i found out that my main & travler sheets had wrapped around my travler car while capsized and i could neither steer nor unsheet. I frantically untangled the mess and was able to steer away at the last second.

the next hour or so home was a rough beat to weather. I was so drained, that i sailed main only, and not sheeted hard. This just made the wave action worse, and my spin snuffer basket would "dip" into the wave in front of me, bend down and then literally spring up and shoot the water into the air and rain down on me.

lessons learned:
Don't capsize
if that fails
furl the jib when righting (or sheet it hard to middle)
If your friend runs into your boat more than 1 time.. ask him to stop
don't wear loose fitting pfd in waves, esp when soaking wet
dont underestimate the tide running n-s when you are sailing e-w

I might add to that (and one that I've learned) - make sure the boat is ready to sail before you right it. I.e., rudder cross bar not flipped over (Nacra style), sheets untangled and ready to go, sails eased, etc.

Awesome garbage.
One thing I noticed trying to swim to the boat with all that crap you're wearing, really slows you down. I had a vhf, epirb and all the other required stuff. I still would have headed to the beach before using any of it. The other thing I learned is don't use suspect line for YOUR trap if the boat owner tells you what is there is fine.

Safety on the beach counts?
I touched electrical cables while raising the mast once... Isolated cables so nothing happened, but I feaked out.. I always had the warning in mind but it's so rare that in practice it's something you don't really pay much attention. The embarrassing part is that electrical safety is totally within my job description...

I was stepping the mast solo, so still on topic...

I think I recall it was your trap line that you insisted on using that broke. Never the less, that was a pretty fun day, Todd. Aside from you wounding your paw.

Yep, That's what I meant. Should have left it the F#%$ alone. That was a fun day. Steve was hilarious, He was wigging out. Juke was cool as could be.

+1.
Had i checked the mainsheet/traveler line... this would have been much better

I'm guilty of not getting things tidy as well. Too engrossed in pulling it back up.

I have noticed its been less of an issue having all my sheets trimmed as short as possible.

I also have a 20 foot line attached to the dive sausage so I can inflate it and send it to the surface while I'm finishing decompression. Can't remember if it came that way or if I added it later...

Not like a freighter could do anything if they did see that little orange thing, but it might get the attention of smaller boats who could alter course.

I agree 100% on both points. Even with minimal sailing apparel and a PFD, don't expect to swim any faster than your average puppy. I consider myself a relatively strong swimmer, but I can barely keep up with a 2-knot drift with my gear on.

And an old habit from fire-rescue days is that I would be so embarrassed to declare an emergency (and have my staff come pick my keister up) that it had to be something akin to an amputation, open head injury, sucking chest wound or the like to pick up the phone...

So if shore is in sight and I'm not currently being eaten by a shark, I'd probably save the VHF or cell phone until I was standing on the beach (other than to perhaps call Race Control and let them know I'm okay and will coordinate retrieval later on)

And if I was being eaten by a shark, my stuff floats so someone could probably get a free GPS, VHF and peanut butter sandwich...

You're assuming sharks don't like peanut butter.

Apparently they do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2djs-hy4s8k