US Olympic Pathway Solns.... thoughts?

The US Olympic program charts a new course.

Recomondations pdf

Multihulls have a brand new class.... a brand new format (mixed) and a primitive development program that to date is bottom up.

The Multihull Racing committee does not really have much to do with Olympic stuff... So... the Olympic stuff will require action at the level of your club, class and individual support.

What do you think about the plan?

What role will your Yacht club (paper or real) play

What role will your class play?

What should be the role of the rank and file sailors?

Bob Merrick, who has actually done this before, described the recomondations as interesting.

I have to say... I am not impressed... Lots of word salad and nothing particularly insightful... IMO.

They want a Team approach with 4 to 6 teams on the pathway to a medal... backstoppped by a Youth Development program.

The amount of sailing in Olympic equipment in the US is minimal now.... What changes on the ground to make this possilbe (apart from lasers)over the next 3 quads?

Multihulls have a unique olympic pathway of
Learn to race in something... move up to Hobie 16 move up to F16 move up to Nacra 17..... Alternatively... you jump into the N17 class and get coached up for a quad,

So...Reality check... we have Zero N17's now with first container in January. and with 50 US F18 teams at nationals.

We have 30 F16's at NA's...after 10+ years of growth. with 10 youth teams.

We have 75 H16's at NA's after 45 years of growth... with 15 youth teams.
The country is huge and critical mass is damn hard to achieve.

HOW is this going to work?
I don't see how their plan manages reality of the critial mass problem ... and then develops sailors who need YEARS of coaching.

Mention of clubs purchasing boats on the development pathway was made... but this seems unrealistic given how little sailing actually happens in these boats for most clubs and their members. (apart from lasers. For Multihulls, I don't know of a single yacht club that has a fleet of 5 club boats.... much less Olympic pathway equipment.

Mention about the coaching deficit and the need for Olympic experience.... How do they solve that one in Multi's.

If I have a drink in hand.... I could echo Bob M' It will be interesting if they can implement the plan..

If I have several drinks in me.... Are these people living on this planet?

Sigh... Am I missing something??

Yeah, you need to adjust those figures for mixed crews

Can't do that..... the numbers would look even smaller...

(I accept the mixed olympics... I don't think it's a great solution by any stretch....) at the development level.... it looks like OPEN will be the pathway...

So is it about "looks" or facts? Post the facts or don't waste the bandwidth.

The facts are ..

There is a list of Helms sailors... rank ordered who will be getting boats ... presumably one through 20.

20 names are on the list.. The heart may be willing but the bank acccount weak.... so... how many of the 20 are still in the game and will get boats .... who knows..

on the ground... zero teams with boats.
AFAIK.... Sarah and JC are the only team annouced to be on a campaign.

JW may know who is in charge of the list and boat distribution and what other teams are forming.

So... Fact.... One US team....

(I still laugh at the assurance of the ISAF folks who insisted that any selection they would make on equipment would result in ISAF events in the fall after Weymouth because the builders would deliver. ....... right!!)

OOPS!?

The panel included Ed Adams (Middletown, R.I.), Andrew Campbell (San Diego, Calif.), Jay Cross (New York, N.Y.), Andrew Kostanecki (Bridgewater, Vt.), Bill Martin (Dearborn, Mich.), Jack Mathias (Buffalo, N.Y.), Jonathan McKee (Seattle, Wash.), Cory Sertl (Rochester, N.Y.), and Tim Wadlow (Beverly, Mass.).

http://sailingteams.ussailing.org/News/Olympic_Review_Panel.htm

Show me any direct affiliation/ dedication to multihull evolution in the panel member roster (hoping for at least one member with the multihull culture in his background)? Who is there on the panel that has been on the water with the new generation of Olympic - hopeful, catamaran athletes? Why are there no outreach plans other than "the Miami Pipeline?" Is the Olympic effort in catamarans restricted to just a privileged few, or does some team that sails on inland lakes in GA have a chance?

I will say again, then go hide in the back of a cave, that the future of the National Multihull Championship is dependent on the regatta's niche within the core (base) development of Olympic minded, athletic talent. The 2012 Alter Finals proved the merit earned in cat sailing by youth and women sailors. It's time the USSA stepped up to the plate and offered all interested catamaran athletes a part of the pie. Use the Hoyt Jolley money for incentives to attend the National US Championship Regatta such as free entry and free coaching by well trained Olympic - level coaches (Robbie for example). The Semi Finals should be feeder races/training for the Finals, and the winner of the Finals should be provided incentives for joining "The Team" for an international event or two during the year.

The real bottom line and highest road we can take is based on Gordon's words in the Deed of Gift, "Whereas, Gordon Isco is donating a perpetual trophy to be awarded to the National Multihull Champion."

Now, if our National Champion does not have a level playing field to compete for a berth on the US Olympic Sailing Team, then why have the event (NMHC) - especially in the context of an Olympic Quad?

Page two - Part 3 of the Recommendations begins with, "Make domestic training a strength and run more Olympic class regattas in the US to bring the whole class/program up to speed, especially in years one and two of the quad."

It's time for US Sailing to poney up and play a leadership (of benevolence) role in the future of multihull sailing. A titch of vision here and a bit of dedication there might save the National Championship and push out the top of the Olympic pyramid.

This will require pro - active diplomacy and ground work. The MRC best hoof it down south this winter and become known by the sailors they hope to represent. Let's see the MRC leaders on the beach, not just read their ops and claims on Catsailor.

The Hobie Alter National Championship Series, including the Semi Finals, meets the intent of these recommendations presented by the panel. Who will be the ambassadors for making it Happen?

How many Olympic Teams do you think are needed?

How many "Teams" does the USA need, to get into the Multhull Olympics?

How many Olympic slots are going to be awarded to each country?

One.

One very good one to win it.

I think that's why there is very little support amongst the Club Racers for any kind of Olympic development.

Oh, that and the fact that US Sailing voted the Multihulls out, and Kites are in...

Actually, much to the Kite sailor's dismay, they're back out again with a change that happened recently.

OK... what did I miss? Last I heard, cats are in and kites are out (boards have been reinstated). Keelboats, still out.

Bert, quit posturing while you're ahead. You have been part of the Multihull Council for many, many years and how many regattas, in how many parts of the country have you attended? It's not like we're all retired with bottomless bank accounts and no family obligations.

Mike

Who are the N17 teams for this ISAF event in Feb 2013? (perhaps F16?)
http://origin.sailing.org/worldcup/38989.php

NOR says Nacra 17, with a quota of 40 boats...

Guess this will be the first real test to see if Nacra can deliver.

Mike

Also notes, ten boat minimum.

Gunnar Larsen(owner of NACRA ) said in an interview on Catsailing news that they were ahead of schedule and should have more boats, than the minimum required by ISAF, built on time.
http://www.catsailingnews.com/2012/11/rio-2016-olympics-nacra-17-in-detail.html

Built vs delivered and race-ready are two different things. Hopefully they pull this off seamlessly.

Mike

Personally, I love Olympic Sailing. I follow the results, I read the regatta reports, I follow the blogs of various campaigns. Why do I like Olympic Sailing so much? It's because I know the players, I can relate to the boats, and I race against many of the sailors. It's much more personal to me than any of the pro circuits.

Looking at the recommendations, I don't see anything ground breaking, but a further move towards a highly structured development approach. I think that is a good thing. Part of the problem with the current system in the US is that you need a ton of money to even begin a campaign. I really hope that if a clear pathway is established, then a sailor who is talented, motivated, and FULLY buys into the program can benefit from the increase of sponsorship the US Sailing team has received.

As far as what I plan to do to help, I will support my friends and family who are planning to start Olympic campaigns. As the F18 Eastern Area Rep I hope to setup some youth or mixed clinics to encourage more new sailors to enter our fleet. I would also crew on a Nacra 17 if needed!

The youth pathway to an Olympic multihull is also a great question, and I think it will go something like:

Opti-420-F16-Nacra 17

I think optis and 420s are fine, as long as we encourage talented sailors to progress quickly, possibly by lowering the maximum age of the Opti and getting kids out of 420s and into i420s/29ers/F16s much sooner. I also think the Hobie 16 should be left out of that pathway- if a top youth sailor has a choice between a non-spinnaker and dated looking Hobie 16 vs. a 29er, they are going to take the 29er option. I think the youth development multi must have a spinnaker if it is going to attract top talent.

Good points Jeff





I think the Hobie 16 pathway is outside of the Yacht Club circuit. Families and sailors can get a start and taste of high performance sailing in the adult regatta circuit that is already well established in the US. In the Mid atlantic, we have a well establshed JO's for Hobie 16 Juniors. Leave well enough alone here.

Sailors who have the talent and drive should be coached to move into the next level when it's time.

The key issue is the F16 pathway through Yacht clubs... We don't have clubs with F16 club boats that could run a program year after year.... For example, Annapolis Yacht Club owns 6 i420's... the Club moves their top juniors into i420s and has a dedicated coach, they don't get stuck in club 420's for more then a year or two. ....Families with serious kids... get their own boat to agument the fleet and compete.

I hope they do a lot more thinking and leading at the club level.... they tend to take this top down approach... (We will have one expert coach in the discipline for the 6 Olympic teams we have in the pipeline).... How about 6 Olympic coaches at the yacht Club level scattered around the country and let the 6 olympic sailors use their own personal coaches when it matters.

The Mid Atlantic JOs is great, nothing wrong with that.

Where I see an issue, is with the path top talent takes to Olympic Level sailing. Right now our top young sailors race optis until they are 14 or 15, either in a yacht club or increasingly through a travel team. I personally think this is too long in optis, but why would a well paid professional opti coach want to move them on any quicker? Once out of optis, the majority go to Lasers or Club 420s. That is fine, but most stay in Club 420s all the way until college. This MUST change! Some programs are moving sailors into i420s or 29ers, which is great, but that is the exception, not the norm.

I personally believe, for the US to be successful at the Olympics, we need to transition more sailors to higher performance boats sooner, and provide them regionalized HP coaching in those classes. For the multihull to be successful, it needs to compete against the i420 and 29er, in addition to the Laser. The F16 may not be the solution due to cost, but I firmly believe the boat must have a kite and more modern look.

Just my opinion.

I think if you want to develop a catamaran training pipline, you should forget about both Opti's and 420's and start kids on the Wave, because it's indestructable, won't fill with water if you capsize it, you can put more than one kid on it, and Dad/Mom can get into it too. Then move them directly to the F16, unless something comes along between the two.

Ask Barb Short about how popular the Wave is with kids. When I started my own kids in an Opti, at age 8, the HATED IT! "It's TOO SLOW!" etc. When we went on vacation to a Sarasota hotel, there was a Wave for rent on the beach. I took them out on it, showed them how to tack it, and got off it and let them have fun.

They LOVED IT! They wanted me to buy one when we got home, and they had an Opti in the back yard, on the lake....but they never sailed it.

"It's too slow!"

Not a huge opti fan myself, but there is something to be said for a boat that is small and light enough that kids can move it around themselves, step the mast themselves, and launch themselves.

I think the key is to allow kids to move on to faster and more exciting boats when they are ready instead of keeping them in the opti until they are 14 or 15. It is a pretty good learn to sail boat, but the hardcore opti racing scene is a bit out of control in my opinion.

The Open Bic is another option, and I was happy to see a club on Lake Erie where I used to teach got a fleet of those!

I agree about 15yr. olds in Opti's, that just ain't right!

Maybe start them at age 6-8 in Opti's, then about 10-12, put them on a Wave, then at 14 go to the F16, certainly by age 15 they could be on an F16..

I think we should get input from some of our Junior cat racers, they are closer to the source (youth!) and can say what they would have liked to sail when they were 10-14.

I think the only reason the Opti is so popular is, it's cheap, small, Dad can put it on the roof of the family car and the club can stack a zillion of them on a rack so storage space is not an issue. Oh, and you don't need a beach, or beach wheels, to launch it, you can toss it off the dock.

But as a sailboat, it makes a great bathtub!

regardless of the boat choice, what skills do the sailors need for the Olympic multihulls?

General sailing (any boat, mono or multi)
Buoy racing (any boat)
High-performance sailing (dingy, multi, skiff)
Multihull sailing (Formula multis)
Trapeeze work (skiff, multi)
Spinnaker work (skiff, multi)

so maybe picking the existing, bigger groups might help:

Basic sailing - Opti, Wave, O'pen
Course racing - 420, Wave, Dragoon, H-16, Formula multis, Skiffs
High-performace sailing - skiffs, Multis
Trapeeze sailing - 420, Skiff, Multis
Spinnaker sailing - Skiff, Multis (420 would be too slow)

WAIT...just add a trap and a spinnaker to an Opti!

Damn, I wish I'd thought of that before I sold my kid's Opti!

put foils on it and make a moth like creature.

Both spins and foils have been put on optis... I will leave the google searching to you.

I very much agree with the point Jay made above- a lot of the skills that lead to a successful mulithull sailor are by no means multihull specific.

In general, I think the US does a pretty good job at developing some of the more fundamental racing skills- starts, boathandling, fleet management, strategy, etc. It is in the transition to boatspeed-type boats where we seem to struggle. With that in mind, moving sailors through a jr. sailing to performance pathway is important.

I think there is a role for both local clubs, and regional training in this pathway. I see the local clubs focusing on younger sailors in optis or Bics, 420s, Lasers, and other "typical" jr. sailing boats. The focus of yacht club programs should be to develop the fundamentals, and more importantly plant a love of the sport in young sailors. I don't see the average yacht club program developing a i420/29er/F16 program if for no other reason than the boats are too expensive for a club-owned fleet... it's hard to get past that reality.

Where the next step can de handled is with regionalized high performance teams. Theses teams should focus on developing motivated young sailors along the path to olympic classes. The USDT is a great start, but the travel requirements still place a heavy financial burden on families. Having a Regional development team could increase the pool of Olympic class sailors, and reduce travel costs. I could see a New England team practicing in Newport, a Midwest team in Chicago, etc. Ensuring each regional team has excellent coaching is a must- and US Sailing should play a role here. It might even be possible to work with existing programs like Lisot or FAST to make this happen.

The top sailors from the regional teams then move on to the US Sailing Development Team, and then hopefully on to the US Sailing Team Sperry Topsider.... the more established the path the better.

As far as the olympic multihull is concerned, we need to do everything possible to make the multi an option for top young sailors, just like any other class. Right now, I don't see the top youth sailors in the country (opti national team members, youth champs winners, all americans, etc.) considering sailing multis- that needs to change.

I like the way you think!

Jeff, I think the real rason you don't see top youth teams from traditional Yacht Club programs (Opti-Laser-420) considering a multihull is...

They've never been EXPOSED to a multihull. Most traditional YC's won't allow one in the yard, there's no place to park them and/or no beach launch them from. The Geezers that run the clubs don't want them.

I have 4 kids, I know from teaching them, and many of their friends to sail on my cats, the kids LOVE trapping out and going fast. I've had many kids out on the wire, who had sailed mono dinghys, who had no idea how fast a spinnaker cat could go. Once they got a taste, they wanted more, but try selling that to a traditional yacht club. The fist thing they will say is, "How much does it cost?" The second thing is, "Where will we put them?" And the third thing is, "Do you know how many Lasers we could buy for that much money!"

Absolutely agree- so how do we fix it? My skipper/boat partner and I bought an F18 having never sailed cats before. We did it not because it was a cat, but because it is the best fleet of high performance boats in our area. My skipper comes from a 420-29er background, I come from a keelboat/laser background. We both sailed in college and still team race and sail small dinghies (I Frostbit an IC.... talk about slow!).

Having multihulls at the Youth Worlds Qualifier and at the US Sailing Youth Champs will help exposure.

In our fleet we make sure to attend multi-class regattas like Sail Newport and Hyannis to make sure we are a visible presence. We also try to take youth sailors out on our boats after racing. All local fleets should try to do the same.

The yacht club problem is a hard one to fix. There is not getting around the economics. That is why I think the development of skiff/multi sailors will be in a regional team atmosphere instead of "traditional" yacht clubs.

How to fix it? Young guys like you keep talkin' and doin' others will follow.

Have the yacht club build a rack system in their boatyard. While not mast-up storage, you could pretty much leave the boat ready to step the mast (shrouds on, etc)

Then you could go three high, which is more boats/sf than dingys

That's actually how the Royal Varuna Yacht Club in Thailand stored many of their boats, it was a great system.

HORY COW, HERP US, GODZIRRA!

Jeff,

You make a lot of valid points, but implementing them may be tough. As is often the case everyone gets hung up on specific classes and boats, rather than looking at the culture surrounding sailing in the U.S. I am fortunate to live in a hotbed of sailing (Annapolis area), am sitting 20 minutes away from one of the premier Olympic sailing training sites in the country (St. Marys College), and can still count the number of high performance boats in the area without a calculator (surprising since I'm not that great at math). Besides Mark's count of 6 i420's at AYC that I have yet to see (CBYRA still uses C420's during the summer regatta circuit), and the club A-Cat at West River, no yacht club owns what I would consider a moderate performance boat. Both West River and SSA are great supporters of existing fleets (SSA has a bunch of 505's, West River has ~ the largest F16 fleet in the country and one of the few N20 fleets left), but how do you transition that to Olympic results? All the clubs mentioned above support the Opti->Club 420->College program, with no pathway to high performance sailing (some summer with a trap wire and spinnaker in a C420 counts a little). AFAIK, only 1 yacht club in the country introduces ANY high performance sailing at the high school level, and we've seen the results of that program with a top 15 finish at F18 worlds.

How do we break the current cycle? Exposing more kids to fast boats at a young age is a great start, but exposing the parents is also critical. The reality is few have the means to own a quick boat and few still can make it work on the regional regatta circuit. Youth will need help period. Looking at my travel budget+insurance+running costs for next year is making me cringe, I guarantee it is north of 75% of the price of the boat. How do you sustain this at the Olympic level?? Training 3+ days a week, paying for private coaching on weekends and traveling thousands of miles to regattas makes this unsustainable for all but the 1%, or those like JC that beg, borrow and steal to make it happen (aka a lifestyle choice).

The unfortunate reality is the high performance multihull talent pool in my backyard is bigger than most yet still slim enough that traveling is a necessity of getting better. Bringing in a regional coach would be great but how do you pay for it? How do you convince the typical yacht club member to fork over a few bucks for a coach instead of drinking beer one night? This goes for any boat or Olympic campaign. We need grassroots answers to a problem created by the 1%, and unfortunately it may be too late for the 2016 Olympic cycle.

Yep, implementing them is definitely tough. What we need is a cultural shift, and that doesn't happen overnight. Where I grew up on Lake Erie, the cool Jr. boat is the Thistle... a boat designed in 1945. One of the reasons the boat is popular is the strong open regatta circuit for the boat, and all the additional social aspects of adult regattas that are not available at jr. events. I know I'm working to get more older sailors to switch to HP boats, but I think it is a much harder sell than to young sailors. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot of inertia in the sailing world, and changing the course away from flying sidewalks is hard!

The price of a performance boat is high, but when you start looking at Olympic pathways, the cost of the boat becomes less significant when compared to campaign costs. That is why I really think we need to develop strong regional training teams. If we can keep travel to within a few hours most weekends, the pool of sailors willing to commit to that path increases.

How do you implement regional teams? You leverage some of the awesome programs and facilities already available, and I think US Sailing should fund regional high performance coaches. I think that would be something that could really make a difference to our sailing culture, and I would be happy to see some of my dues money go towards that. If not US Sailing funding, then maybe we need to work with regional yachting associations. For sure hiring a respected HP coach could be tough for an individual club or family, but if a group of clubs commits to hiring a coach for their combined top talent, it becomes more possible. It is a cultural shift, but possible.

Possible training centers:
New England: Sail Newport
South East: USSC Miami
South West: USSC Long Beach
North West: Sail Sand Point
Midwest: USSC Sheboygan, or maybe Chicago (or my hometown Cleveland!)
Gulf Coast: Somewhere in Texas maybe?

The infrastructure exists... now we need motivated and skilled HP coaches!

Jeff,

I know I am much more inclined to travel under 4 hours each way on a weekend, mostly from a time standpoint but fuel costs aren't getting cheaper.

The other unfortunate reality is the existing USSC infrastructure that you listed excludes large swaths of the country. It is 1,000 miles to Miami from Annapolis and 400 miles to Newport (the later close to frozen now). There are sizable active fleets of HP boats in Georgia, SC, NC, MD and NJ that would have a tough time making it to regional coaching on a given weekend. Yes the top talent will find a way to make the drive but the U.S Sailing/yacht club members that are paying for the regional coaches might have a tough time justifying the expense if they too can't reap the benefit. I'm sure a similar thing can be said for other areas of the country. A related solution is to build community sailing centers that can operate outside the yacht club infrastructure and basically exist solely to support coaching sailors from never been on a boat to Olympic level (the later bringing USSC status and associated funding). These may be off the beaten path a little bit but bring new sailing venues and much lower membership fees than a typical yacht club infrastructure.

Another minor concern is the availability of high performance coaches, at least in the Florida area 3 out of 4 that I am aware of live on the Gulf Coast, quite a drive from Miami. I'm not sure other areas of the country even have 1 performance coach.

-Sam

Sam,

I accidentally omitted a mid-atlantic venue- my apologies. I would love more community sailing centers around the country! In Boston, we are fortunate enough to have several... unfortunately the "high performance" boat at these centers are lasers and 420s (plus windsurfers at Community Boating Boston). For a community sailing center, a premium has to be put on boats that can sustain constant use (abuse) for an entire summer with minimal maintenance. If you have ever watched the MIT rec sailors and community boating sailors run boats into the esplanade, into the bridges, into each other... you'll know what I mean!

Unfortunately, for high performance boats, private ownership seems much more likely. The Canadian 49er class started a boat grant this year which is great- I have tried to figure out a way to do that for the F18s with little success. My hope is that if you make coaching and training more accessible and reduce the campaign burden, maybe more people would be willing to investment slightly more in the equipment up front.

As far as coach availability, if you create actual paid positions, I think you would see people move to those areas- it already happens for collegiate coaching positions. I am confident we have an adequate number of individuals who could coach performance boats in the US, but if not, I am not against hiring foreign coaches... it works for nations like Singapore!

You guys have done a good job of describing the hurdles.

I think you have to break things down to two divisions.

Olympic Pathway are the 5 to 6 mixed teams actively out raising money for their own campaigns, training with the team multi coach and making the ISAF grade I events as needed. They will need their home Yacht clubs to host Olympic training camps and a handful of international regattas. These guys will take care of themselves.

The real issue is how to get talent into the development team on mixed multihull. Growing your own.... ie coaching up your kids won't work... We need a program that
1) attracts the attention of the top junior racers 15 to 21.
2) provides an opportunity to compete for and participate in at least 2 regional training camps against the top regional racers in open multi... with a huge effort to recruit woman.
4) a mechanism to be invited to an elite training camp with members of the olympic team who are also training.
5) a clear domestic competition pathway to the ISAF youth champs and the later on... the Olympic team and Olympic ISAF events.

Leadership for the youth develpment MUST come from the top.... BUT the job is to get key regional clubs to support the Olympic development effort.. Figure out what resources are needed and then raise the money to make it happen.

This program sits on top of any yacht club programs that are using mulit's (eg Sarostoa YC or Hobie Div 11 and the JO's)

Individual parents will also be supporting their sailor with coaching and boats and they would be taking advantage of this kind of program as well.

Once this is in place... the racing multihull clubs can then piece in events locally that give these junior sailors more opportunity to race. Move boats, etc etc. If we can get these racers three experiences on a racing cat... they will be hooked.

My proposal is for a two boat trailers with F16's for charter that move from one regional high performance training camp to the next. Add two teams with their own boats and two teams trying it out from the local Yacht clubs and a olympic branded coach and you might get some good results. repeat this model a few times around the country and you might get something going.

Whoa... That could be interesting. Two trailers of (presumably sponsored) boats... I hear Alter Cup solution as a bonus!!!

Lots of good ideas here, keep them coming.

BTW, there are far more good girl sailors than you are giving credit here. It shouldn't be too hard to find them.

I would argue that we need to focus on transitioning college sailors. Going after the youth probably won't work, as they are all focused on getting to college, where monohulls rule the water (if they have time to sail at all). Full-time Olympic paths really start after college anyway.

Mike

Guys,

All these ideas are great! But, WHO is going to pay for it?

"My proposal is for a two boat trailers with F16's for charter that move from one regional high performance training camp to the next. Add two teams with their own boats and two teams trying it out from the local Yacht clubs and a olympic branded coach and you might get some good results. repeat this model a few times around the country and you might get something going."

This takes a LOT of MONEY and a lot of volunteer effort(money costs again!). This is the biggest hurdle and only the 1% have it. It helps to be a professional sailor too!

You are asking these kids to sacrifice their educations for what, a piece of metal that doesn't buy them groceries at the end of the day?! The days of glory are long gone.

I think someone else said it but 2016 is already past you. This is the reality whether you like it or not. I wish the current teams good luck!

BC

I agree that full time Olympic paths often start after college, but if the US is going to be competitive internationally, the Olympic path must start younger.... it definitely does elsewhere in the world! To accomplish this, the strength of our domestic program must get better. It is unrealistic to think that a high school or early college sailor can commit to a summer racing in Europe... even if they have extraordinary drive and commitment. Unfortunately, that is where the competition is, and our European counterparts benefit greatly from the harsh realities of geography.

So what can we do? Well in Europe they have the EUROSAF sailing cup, we need to work with Canada, Mexico, and the Islands to create a similar circuit. The regattas already exist- CORK, ABYC OCR, Miami OCR, etc., but quality and participation is lower than in Europe. Maybe we need to start incentivizing these events. Make competition in your regional OCR a mandatory requirement to qualifying for a regional development team. Having national ranking points that count towards funding tiers from US Sailing. Have quality clinics included as part of the events. We don't need huge fleets, but we need close the gap between youth sailing and college sailing, and a full time, euro-centric Olympic campaign.

As far as college sailing, I love the game- it is perhaps the simplest, most fun sailing you can possibly have. The important thing to remember, however, is that college sailing is just a very, very small part of the overall sailing world. It is really good at teaching some skills, but the realities of the venues and format mean some skills are neglected- and that is ok! I don't think an Olympic campaign and college sailing are mutually exclusive, but success in both requires clear communication of goals between coach and sailor, and flexibility from both sides.

Fran (MIT Sailing Master) is all for running a college event in multihulls, but the same question arises... where do you get the boats?

These issues are fresh in my mind currently... lots of discussion of my brother-in-law's campaign during Thanksgiving!

I don't think anyone is asking a kid to give up an education- in fact I think that would be the last thing anyone would say.

I'm not going to apologize for still believing in the awesome honor that sailing in the Olympics represents. Sure you can say an Olympic medal is a "piece of metal," but you can say that about anything in life! If you take that attitude, why bother to even sail at all, let alone race?

For me, I'm going to keep going to the gym, working on my boat, and supporting, those who dream of Olympic glory.

IIRC, don't other nations sponsor their Olympic teams, reducing the need for the competitors to seek private support? Seems our Olympic hopefuls spend more time soliciting than they do practicing/competing.

Why not partner with the Collegiate Sailing system for Olympic development?

And explain again why my USS membership wouldn't support Olympic sailing program or team costs?

Jay, US Sailing dues are not used for Olympics, but they do run completely separate fundraising for Olympics. I can't recall the specific reason, it's probably buried on the website somewhere. You can always write a check and send in a donation.


I agree, and didn’t like what I was typing as it came out. The roots need to start earlier, but this will be a huge hurdle to set up in the short term. A long-term plan needs to be devised and implemented ASAP so we aren’t having this same discussion again down the road. There is lots of interest and potential right now at US Sailing, this is our chance to make a big impact.


I agree with a lot of this as well, but there are real travel costs here with those locations being so spread out. We need a plan to address that.


This may be the most encouraging thing I have ever seen on this site! Let’s figure out how to solve the boat problem.
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I do know that there is some interest at NYYC and St. Francis in multihulls, and it’s not all due to the America’s Cup. Sail Newport has been a long-time supporter (Hobie 14 frostbiting, F18s, etc.), and has outstanding fundraising capabilities for projects that they buy into. NYYC and SN have established ties to Olympic sailing. I think we can leverage these (and other) avenues for everyone’s benefit.

Mike

Jay,

I think the level of support is country dependent. Some countries are putting tons of money into their national sailing programs- Singapore is a great example. Team GBR relies on national lottery funding to help support its sailors.

I think the US got caught behind the curve when it came to national team funding and a very professionalized program. For a long time we dominated Olympic sailing using a very individualistic model... so we didn't change that model until all of a sudden we were playing catch up (at least IMHO). The good news is the US Sailing Team funding to athletes is increasing, hopefully reducing the individual burden slightly.

The simplest answer to the collegiate question is that the current college system works really well by some measures, and is difficult to change.

Not sure why USS membership doesn't go towards Olympic sailing, although I know many wouldn't support it.

Well, we are a "what's in it for me" society now, aren't we? I guess perhaps the only reason I feel somewhat benevolent now is I actually know the Olympic hopefuls...?

Hey, can we continue to bring international level events here to the US? Would that help bring the teams up to Olympic caliber faster?

I'm torn. I personally have no interest in Olympic sailing but having the team supported by USS dues is appealing to me. I know, a little contradictory...

I guess I feel that private efforts are doomed to fail for lack of funding. A true National team with appropriate funding levels is a whole different matter.

Bringing international events to the US is great, but hard to sustain in my opinion. The only annual international Olympic class event in the US is the Miami OCR, and I think it will be a struggle just to make sure we keep that one. Raising the profile of existing events like CORK would be very beneficial (and sailing there is awesome!).

As far as individual class events, you are restricted by class politics. For the F18s, getting a Worlds outside Europe is VERY hard. The current tentative plan is:
2013: Grosseto, Italy (confirmed)
2014: Ireland or Argentina (bids)
2015: Argentina or Oman (bids)

I believe there is another European bid in there as well, but I forget where. Argentina has a chance because it is Souther Hemisphere and the Europeans wouldn't lose part of their season to ship boats.

The A-Cats will likely be back, but it could be a few years. The 2013 F16 Worlds is Germany, maybe a US venue can put together a bid for F16s in the coming years.

The Nacra 17s will also have a worlds, but that will be subject to the ISAF Combined Worlds planning, so hard to say!

College Sailing is NOT a stepping stone to the Olympics...We have conclusively demonstrated this at Weymouth.... College Sailing is great for what it is... and we should leave it alone... no reason to put boards, cats and skiffs into the college game..
The proper model is basketball. Elite players go to Kentucky for a year and then to the NBA...School and sailing are seperate activities.


Why should US Sailing not directly fund Olympic Sailing... because Olympic Sailing gets the bulk of it's money from the USOC by way of the IOC.... by way of NBC TV by way of advertising. It would be greedy of them to take from the rest of the sport admin.

Money... Yes.. it would be expensive.... that is why we need a partnership... of several partners... US Olympic, Key Yacht Clubs who want to host Olympic Camps for their top sailors, Multihull clubs and classes, and parents and Junior sailors and some funding partners who brand the program and boats. These camps are not going to be free.... the goal is to cross train top regional sailors and plan to grow their performance in what ever boat they race or pathway they take. You hope to find a Smyth or Lovell as well as crews.

We need a vision for all of the partners and leadership from US Olympic and full support from the partners and multihull sailors.

I haven’t read any of the posts in this thread but a quick scan shows that it’s just like any other thread on the topic. Everyone is mapping out their own particular if-I-ruled-the-world scenario. Unfortunately it’s all just talk and just about no one is going to actually do anything. Here’s something you can do, give some money to your favorite aspiring Olympians, that’s what keeps real Olympic programs going.

+1

I agree but I think a few good ideas have come out of this thread that are actually implementable:

1) Hiring regional coaches-certainly doable if groups of F16/F18 sailors get together and make it happen. These coaches may be Olympic hopefuls and you're helping fund their campaign.

2) Getting a double stack F16 setup available for use. Its viable if there is manufacturer support behind the effort

3) Showing up at high school/college regattas and practices with your F16/F18/N20 and taking the kids for a spin after racing or the parents during the day. More exposure to high performance sailing=more interest in the classes=a few more Olympic hopefuls.

All of this takes at the minimum time, and in reality money by the class organizations to make it happen. Perhaps it would be better to spend this money directly on individual campaigns but some change needs to happen for 2020 before the U.S stops supporting sailing at the Olympics all together after another 0 medal count event.

More to the point...
Target is the 15 to 21 year old junior RACER... Not learn to sail... not recreational sail.. NOT OLD FARTS like us...
(now a partner program of coaching for the weekend warior set adds a huge amount of financial power and velocity to a program )

Credentials and authority matter...(as much as cat sailors reject authority)... FACT OF LIFE... no parent will spend the coin unless the program is real and supported by US Sailing AND your local establishment Yacht Club and it leads to International Championships.

Big time Yacht clubs already hire full time coaches/program directors (AYC just hired a recent ex Olympic coach) ... for their core group of sailors... We need to augment this expertise with a regional coach that comes in to support the high performance boats (skiffs and cats).

We need to change the attitude of college coaches... When THEY assert that juniors who cross train in high performance boat classes are the prize recruits and College admissions accomodates this change... Parents will be insisting that their kids have cross training opportunities.


This is a partnership between US Sailing (program) and your regional YRA, and the sponsors (boat builder and benefactors). A couple of YRA's could get together and buy into the package of training opportunities. The leadership starts at the top... but the people who make this run are at the YRA level (working with the key Yacht Clubs)



No... NO ... NO... Taking the kids for a spin is a proven waste of time...

Sailing is sailing.. racers decide on what class is more fun and meets their goals (regional champs, NA's, ISAF qualifier, College Admission, Olympics) ... it's not a novel new experience... So... they want to see the opportunities available and how doable is the class.

Ultimately... a kid needs to buy a boat... so parents are going to want to see a real commitment... a training camp of a couple of days will cost some money... when the US high performance program delivers.... the parents and kids have real information to move forward.

Final point... Kids don't want to look bad to their peers or anyone... So, they don't just jump into something where they will look foolish... Programs are a work-around for that psychology. (Tried for years to get kids to take a free boat to a race... does not happen! .... THEY love to just sail it tho)

What you propose is best left to the boat builder... it's called marketing. Or a Yacht Club... it's called membership drive.

Yes, it's about the money. To live on, train on and compete on. I've met 2 Olympic aspirants over the years. Robbie Daniel when he was racing a Hobie 18 in Fort Myers and a high school friend of my wife who was a track athlete. Jill Nickerson did great promo work with Robbie so I was able to follow his trials and tribulations through her articles for Multihulls Magazine. Robbie was in a program with Home Depot where he worked for the company and they allowed him time to train and compete. The track star has a similar situation with Mobil Oil.

Are there stilll programs such as these?

The last quad was very different for US Sailors compared to Robbie, your track buddies experience... or Bob M's experience... These sailors did not have financial or coaching support that was remotely adequate from US Olympic.

US Olympic provided 60 days of on the water coaching and other financial support after a succesful fund raising push... The problem was coaching, competition,experience, and pipeline... (assuming the sailors had equal talent)

I never mentioned US Olympic. Are corporations still providing this support?

On point 3, is it? How many of those AYC sailors have been on a double trapeze boat? I can count on one hand the number of those boats parked in downtown Annapolis, so I'm guessing the percentage isn't very high.

The fundamental issue is a culture switch. When speaking directly to the high school sailor, they would love to be on a double trapeze boat, but they aren't going to do it if their friends are off campaigning C420's. The solution is to take some of that 420 funding and buy 6x F16's/29er's etc. and build a viable fleet with paid coaching. You won't see people break out of the college sailing mode until the yacht clubs change their base program. Its too easy for the parents to drop the kids off at the club, coaches take care of transportation, no need to move boats, and they're hanging out with 18+ of their like-minded friends.

Probably the best suggestions will come from our Olympic sailors that have won a metal. Looks like it takes a lot of dedication, time and money. In addition to Bob's comments, we should hear from John Lovell and Charlie Ogletree.

In the past, I have donated to the Olympic Committee Fund. With the return of Multihulls to the 2016 Games, I plan on shifting support directly to our Teams working to earn the position to represent USA. As Bob Suggests, you may want to do the same.

Caleb Tarleton
www.sailsandpoint.org

I agree with you Caleb, but what if I was an old senile monohull dude who wanted to support whatever Olympic program was out there developing the teams to represent us? Should I just give to the USOC? Or would that also allocate my funds to the Curling team?

If the USOC is the primary means to get people to the Olympics, where would USS fit in that picture? Is it an adjunct organization for "the rest of us"?

US Sailing collects donations specifically for Olympic sailors. Go to the website, and you will see several options.

It's not obvious if you can make a donation to specifically help multihull sailors, but I'm sure if you called and made that a condition of your donation, they wouldn't turn you away.

As Bob mentioned, you can always donate to a specific team of your choice if you prefer.

We may mock curling all day long, but they get a TON of air time...

Mike

To be clear, I may be the old Dude that gave to the USOC in the past, but I now advocate giving directly to the Teams working hard on making the USA Olympic Multihull Team, such as Newberry/Casey
Caleb Tarleton
www.sailsandpoint.org
BTW, still racing my H-17 in all Div 4 Regattas, North Americans, and Alter Cup qualifiers, when we have them.

Sam
Fabulous solution.... I agree! ... BUT... It hasn't ever happened in the USA anywhere that I know of ...... so... my advice don't hold your breath.... or count on this happening.

For instance... AYC would not accept your 6 boats if you gave them to the club... they are land locked.

So.. you need a different approach...
I agree completely that you need a cohort of juniors that are doing the program.

What other program would be possible?

Future Olympic Sailors? http://www.americascup.com/en/news/...ericas-cup-trials-conclude-for-usa-teams

Teams just selected. http://americanyouthsailingforce.com/

Three of the sailors are from Seattle. Matt Pistay is actually from Seattle, and his mother Andi, serves on the Board at Sail Sand Point.

Caleb Tarleton
www.sailsandpoint.org

I think its a shame there are no females in either US teams, especially with the Olympic Multihull being mixed now.

It's mixed now but will it be next cycle? Will there even be Olympic sailing after this cycle?

Boards are out kites in, now kites out boards in. How does anyone plan anything when there's no stability. No, trying to plan the future is not possible or realistic.

One thing that bugs me is about how teams are selected by this country is having it come down to one regatta. Shouldn't the most consistent team over a series of regattas get chosen?

And I think this alludes to Pete's concern voiced earlier.... where would I be able to SEE that my donation goes to the sailing discipline of choice.

Or should I not be so selfish and spread my money to Laser Radial and Boardsailing?

Speaking of donating directly, did JC/Sara set up any 501(c)(3) or anything? I haven't checked their web recently...

I share your concern, Mike. I thought it would be some sort of series or elimination ladder to select the most proficient, and consistent, team.

Seeing that I've won or placed well in a few events through a variety of circumstances - some for reasons other than my stunning good looks and witty banter- I don't think that necessarily makes me "the best sailor".

In fact, the very unpredictability of my race results would highlight that notion.

The team is not selected at one event anymore. For the 2012 games, the trials was composed of the combined results from the 2011 Sail for Gold Regatta and the 2011 ISAF World Championships.

It is happening somewhere, the Sarasota Sailing Squadron down in Florida. The club doesn't own the boats but the local F16/F18 fleet that uses the club as their base of operations has been generous enough to loan the platforms to star 420 skippers/crews during the week for practices and in some cases weekend events. The practices were/are run by the same coach in charge of high school sailing practice. This would be possible in our area if the club agreed, an experienced multihull sailor was the coach, and enough multihull sailors offered their boats as training platforms.

Not entirely true. Sarasota Youth Sailing owns 3 (at least) boats....1 F-18 (there may be another) and 2 F-16's.

Thanks for filling in the details. Point is it can work!!

....and they are churning out some EXTREMELY talented young multihull sailors!!!!!

Terrific.... when you get to 5 boats... we can start comparing the multi scene to the 1000's of Yacht clubs with 420 fleets.

I would argue that a two boat Sarasota fleet is a lot closer to my targeted approach then a dream that Multi's will be used in most Yacht club programs anytime in the future.

Props to Sarasota for buying some club boats.

The US SAILING Youth Multihull Championship is a good example of a pathway to the Olympics. Sarah Newberry, the current Chair of this event is one of our top sailors on the path to the 2016 games. She also was the winner of the Youth Multihull Championship in 2006. In prior events, she was 7th in 2002, 3rd in 2004, and 5th in 2005.

In 2006, our local Hobie Cat sailors in Seattle helped train three teams to race in the 2007 Multihull Youth Championship. They were trained on Hobie 16's and Tigers. Since the event was sailed on the SL 16 with spin, they got experience on the Tigers. This was not done with some damage. Two Tiger sails were destroyed during this training.

Art Stevens tried to get us at Sail Sand Point to invest in at least one SL 16 to train future Youth Multihull racers. We did consider this option, but decided not too, as the boats would have limited use in our overall program.

Currently, we have seven Waves and eight H-16's in our program at Sail Sand Point. The boats are available for our Monday night races, and we are hoping to add a second night of racing just for Multihulls.

We may not be training sailors to enter in the Olympics, but on the other hand, three of the sailors selected for the America's Cup Youth Team are from Seattle.

Caleb Tarleton
www.sailsandpoint.org

US Sailing has appointed Charlie McKee high performance director. This is awesome news.

http://sailingteams.ussailing.org/News/2012/McKee_Appointed_High_Performance_Director.htm

Slightly offtopic, but the Nacra 17 Class rules have been published:
.pdf]http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/N172012CR301112-[14005].pdf

I get this.
The information you requested could not be retrieved.

Just read them before I saw your post.... I'm a nerd

http://www.sailing.org/classesandequipment/33651.php

Interesting is the lack of dyneema traplines, I thought that would be standard on a high performance cat like the N17.

ditto on the trap lines.

The rules are tight.... You can't drill a new hole in the boat!... you get to play with risers and bungee's and that's it.

So... the question will be... how reproducible are the masts... do you buy a quiver of sticks and sort for the one you like? Do you have a truck of sails to match?

Will the Olympics be BYOB or supplied by the games?

Good question... It was not part of Nacra's equip proposal to ISAF... I suspect it's BYOB with tight measurement standards for the factory supplied stuff.

If BYOB, then you might need 2 or 3 boats in different locations for training and then qualifying races. It gets real expensive real quick.

Always has been.... This is part of the reason behind US Olympics push to change the culture of the Olympic team... They got most of the sailors on board with a team approach... cut the costs and increase the training and coaching time. Teams still had their international training partners... especially after selection and before the games.. This remains a key feature of the new plan just announced.
The cost of the boat always pales in comparison to campaign and training costs. Note... Countries get qualified for the Olympics by their representatives competing at the grade I events.... so... you could have one team trying to qualify the US.... or six teams trying to qualify the US... Once the US is in (based on performance)... then the US gets to pick their team... (now done by performance of the 6 teams at a couple of late ISAF grade I events.

You could always self fund your campaign and do your own thing outside of US Olympic and win the key selection events...

TROUBLES FOR NACRA 17's OWNERS?
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=143283

Oakcliff Sailing Center will be purchasing 8 Nacra 17s for Olympic and Youth development and training. This is awesome news!
http://sailingteams.ussailing.org/News/2012/Olympic_Sailing_Partners_with_Oakcliff.htm

HOLY COW!!!!!

This program will be the single most important development in our sport since the Hobie 14 and 16 and the birth of the the Hobie fleet.

We are well beyond the XX boat is better then your boat.. and the corresponding class wars (Yes we still have a few dead enders ... see the current Hobie fleet thread) ... Clearly, we are moving beyond the stand alone paper catamaran club as our organizing principle.

Promoting excellence in High performance racing could be what our paper and yacht clubs focus on in the future.

The key was always a partnership between a Yacht Club with US Olympic Sailing. Families that are supporting their kid will now have confidence that a real step beyond the junior opportunities in Hobie 16s and F16's. We have developed a few junior opportunities at the grass roots level but we have never managed anything to match the programs in 4twinkies and lasers.

This is a great development.!!!!

I have worked with Jay Kehoe in the past and I trust him to create a series of programs that allow young sailors to fully develop their game. Jay Kehoe was the YES voice I needed in the yacht club to get Annapolis Yacht club to host the Hobie 16 Junior NA's with the annual Junior Olympic Festival.

We have a GREAT OPPORTUNITY to get organized at our Yacht club and Catamaran fleet level and get some junior sailors started in cats or on the road to the Oakcliff.

The Sarasota YC has a great program already and they must be thrilled that their sailors will soon have a national opportunity to continue their development.

We need MORE clubs and One Design classes to get on board now.

In the end..... this will help the quality and fun factor in our club and regional racing. There is nothing like competing against top sailors... (especially hot shot young guns with attitude) racing at your regatta to get the juices flowing again among the old guard.

Great result!!!! very very cool!

This is hugely exciting news. Here is a perfect opportunity to partner with US Sailing, and presents a direct path for those of you interested in donating cash to help cat sailors in the Olympics.

I've opened a dialogue with Dawn. Jack has been asking us to be ready to blaze a trail for development, now is the time.

I'm going to schedule a phone meeting for the Multihull Racing Committee within the next few weeks to plan a path forward for this year (for this and other business). If you want to help, let me know.

Mike

Mike,

I'm in, but I'm in Singapore for the month, so try to schedule the meeting either morning or evening (13 hour time difference!).

-Jeff