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Foiling F18...

Posted By: Tony_F18

Foiling F18... - 12/02/12 09:09 PM

This is pretty cool, it's a Tiger that had been fitted with foils.
According to the article they have had speeds up to 32kts:
http://www.searchmagazine.se/segling/news/view/2778
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/02/12 09:34 PM

32 knots in 7-10 meters a second.

Testing ended when a rudder foil broke (last pic).

Nothing about methods used for measuring speed. 10.000 karma points for pushing foiling smile
Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/02/12 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Rolf_Nilsen
32 knots in 7-10 meters a second.

Testing ended when a rudder foil broke (last pic).

Nothing about methods used for measuring speed. 10.000 karma points for pushing foiling smile


Both pics show the broken rudder...they were still foiling without it!
Posted By: MOONSHINE

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 02:12 AM

That is really cool and looks like a lot of fun, but I would hate to see the F18 class with foiling daggerboards.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 02:41 AM

I wouldn't worry about that. It's more likely a new class someday will pop up flying all over the place and obsolete the F16/18's
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Jake


Both pics show the broken rudder...they were still foiling without it!


I just read the swedish original text which said that the fun ended when one rudder foil broke.

It actually looks like they are foiling, and with no daggerboard/mainfoil applied as well on the windward hull. I can not even see the foil on the windward hull. Windward rudder is white while leeward is black. Looks kind of funny.
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 09:13 AM

The windward rudder looks like the standard Tiger rudder.
I do hope the pics are real though, almost too good to be true smile
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 09:28 AM

Actually, the top picture shows the same setup. No main foil on the windward hull and it looks like the standard rudder is used.

Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by MOONSHINE
That is really cool and looks like a lot of fun, but I would hate to see the F18 class with foiling daggerboards.


I really doubt that would happen. In this case, I bet its pretty in pictures while sailing at certain angles - but I bet it is unable to foil while sailing upwind and is very very slow. I also can't image using that from a practical standpoint - putting in boards from the bottom of the boat, clearing weeds (eeek!).

Posted By: mbounds

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 12:50 PM

What keeps the board with the foil from rising up in the trunk? Just friction from the sideforce?
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by Jake

I really doubt that would happen. In this case, I bet its pretty in pictures while sailing at certain angles - but I bet it is unable to foil while sailing upwind and is very very slow. I also can't image using that from a practical standpoint - putting in boards from the bottom of the boat, clearing weeds (eeek!).



Maybe sooner than you think, there is an item on the agenda for the upcoming F18-WC meeting:
"18. To discuss Formula 18 handicap regarding curved Dagger board (Dutch class request):
Presentation to be forwarded by Dutch rep."

There is some more interesting stuff in the upcoming agenda though, interesting read.



Attached File
Posted By: bacho

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 01:16 PM

It appears they have no altitude controls on the foils? Does the text say anything about it?
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by mbounds
What keeps the board with the foil from rising up in the trunk? Just friction from the sideforce?


Likely a line that's kind of a downfucker. I think that's what they did on the L foils for the Viper/C2.

Weeds would be a nightmare.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by Jake

I really doubt that would happen. In this case, I bet its pretty in pictures while sailing at certain angles - but I bet it is unable to foil while sailing upwind and is very very slow. I also can't image using that from a practical standpoint - putting in boards from the bottom of the boat, clearing weeds (eeek!).



Maybe sooner than you think, there is an item on the agenda for the upcoming F18-WC meeting:
"18. To discuss Formula 18 handicap regarding curved Dagger board (Dutch class request):
Presentation to be forwarded by Dutch rep."

There is some more interesting stuff in the upcoming agenda though, interesting read.



This is the same class that disallowed having straight daggerboards canted in the hulls...I think it would be a pretty significant detriment to open up the rules to allow the boats to be equipped with daggerboards that cost $3,600. Price has already gotten out of control with boats well north of $20k.

Posted By: samc99us

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 02:51 PM

Not really sure its that big of a deal Jake, the long board price is already insane, breaking one may be an insurance claim for some people as is. Switching to curved boards wouldn't make matters exponentially worse. However you'd eliminate the existing fleet as the boat would need to be designed around the foils. This I don't see the council voting on. I could see them letting t-foils on the rudders but otherwise no big game changers.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 03:12 PM

refresh my memory, is the F18 a development class?

Are we developing these boats beyond the reach (fiscal and ability) of the average sailor?

If we are to build the fleet through new sailors, should they start with some other fleet(s) before moving to a relatively high tech (and narrow performance groove) F18 foiling fleet?

As it is, I could see an H-16 sailor moving rather easily to the F18 fleet. Minor changes in boathandling and spinnaker between the two.

Moving from an H-16 to a foiling (or semi-foiling) spin boat would probably take a lot more effort, time, and money - possibly discouraging many a "hobbyist" racer (those whom sailing is a sport, not a profession)
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 03:34 PM

A good example of wild changes helping a class is the Moth. Hell, I want one, and I'm a cheap butt.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 04:00 PM

No one has shown a fully flying F16/F18/F20 to be faster round the course than a stock boat. Until such time the discussion is pretty moot.
Posted By: Rolf_Nilsen

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
No one has shown a fully flying F16/F18/F20 to be faster round the course than a stock boat. Until such time the discussion is pretty moot.



Bravo, I agree!
Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
A good example of wild changes helping a class is the Moth. Hell, I want one, and I'm a cheap butt.


Of the people I knew that held that opinion, it changed after they actually sailed one. They're tough to sail...really tough to sail well.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 06:00 PM

I'm pretty sure the C class guys tried it already and found it to be not very good at going upwind?

We could simply change our typical bouy course, to something more of a drag race. What type course do the Moths typically sail? I saw some on Sydney harbor and they were FLYING! (Literally!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1VXKskNa4Y

Looked like fun but as Jake points out, they are very difficult to sail well. Lots of swimming invloved on that learning curve! A foiling cat would be a whole lot more stable, side to side, and as I've been saying for years, all we really need to do is connect two Moths together, side by side!

Here's a foiling cat video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrqAJZrKCk0
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
A good example of wild changes helping a class is the Moth. Hell, I want one, and I'm a cheap butt.


Of the people I knew that held that opinion, it changed after they actually sailed one. They're tough to sail...really tough to sail well.


I believe that, still want one.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 08:02 PM

Moths sail a typical windward-leeward course. If you want one, buy one. I'd get one but launching off a beach is difficult and foiling in sea state looks really tough. An A-Cat is more practical.

Carrying 2 sets of foils around the course (cat) vs. 1 set (moth) adds twice as much drag, and the initial C attempt proved slower, but it was an initial attempt. I bet 1 fully flying C will show up at Weymouth in 2013 and then we can be the armchair judges.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 09:25 PM

and an A is probably the route I'll end up going for a quick to set up boat. I need to build something to house the toys before I do anything. Looking at getting a Lotus Exige some day, I'm not letting it sit outside, and no way am I letting my pickup sit outside. Just wish I had Jake's lot size to play with to add a man-cave that size.


foil technology has come a long ways, and I'm sure we're just starting to get a grip on it, much less perfecting it.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
and an A is probably the route I'll end up going for a quick to set up boat. I need to build something to house the toys before I do anything. Looking at getting a Lotus Exige some day, I'm not letting it sit outside, and no way am I letting my pickup sit outside. Just wish I had Jake's lot size to play with to add a man-cave that size.


foil technology has come a long ways, and I'm sure we're just starting to get a grip on it, much less perfecting it.


It's amazing how fast you run out of space after you make it.

I'm thinking SLC with a charged LS6 or something, myself. Gonna need something to work on when this garage is totally completed. Planning to install the in-floor scissors lift next summer.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/03/12 11:58 PM

I'm completely enamored with the Exige. Cheap, weighs nothing, and you can pull over 300hp out of that 2.0L pretty easily. Which isn't a lot, but it's plenty when you're dragging around less than 2k pounds. That and they're unique. I can get a used ZO6 for less, but too common.


Spaces always look big when they're empty, or on paper next to the bill. When I moved the shop a couple of years ago I thought I had a few years before I ran out of space. Took about six months for things to start getting tight again. If I build a building I'm going at least three times the size of my current shop at about 7500 sq/ft. 10k would be better yet. I need at least double what I've got now just to have room to make things flow again.
Posted By: TEAMVMG

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by samc99us


I bet 1 fully flying C will show up at Weymouth in 2013 and then we can be the armchair judges.


Falmouth
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Just wish I had Jake'slot size to play with to add a man-cave that size.


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 01:43 PM

You could build one of these. sorry long video but cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cps42IRMGFE&feature=player_embedded
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dlennard
You could build one of these. sorry long video but cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cps42IRMGFE&feature=player_embedded

Cool garage, but I was expecting it's occupants to be a little more exotic. A Gmc pick-up, 2 audis,and 2 jeeps in a 5 million dollar garage.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 03:04 PM

Don't forget the badass Lumina or whatever the maroon car on the end was.

That is pretty awesome though. $25 a pop in juice just to cycle the elevator though. Wow. I make an alright living, but I think that's a wee bit outta my price range. It'd be like having your own Bat Cave though
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dlennard
You could build one of these. sorry long video but cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cps42IRMGFE&feature=player_embedded


I think I'm going to PUKE!

That sick fk has a bunch of brand new Harleys, "Collectors Edditions" and has never even started them up?!! That's just wrong on so many levels! What a TOOL! What is the point??


"Chicks Dig It"? Really? Really?

I'm going to have to drive out to Lake Tahoe just to punch this guy in the face, then ride off on one of those bikes!

Can you imagine if Larry Ellison built up that monster carbon fiber Triamaran from the last A/C, but then never put it in the water??

"Hey, I've got this great peice of artwork...hidden in my basement!"

Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by MN3
[quote=Karl_Brogger]Just wish I had Jake'slot size to play with to add a man-cave that size.


My lot's actually not that big at about 1/2 acre....I just don't have much space left to grow things that need access to dirt.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by MN3
[quote=Karl_Brogger]Just wish I had Jake'slot size to play with to add a man-cave that size.


My lot's actually not that big at about 1/2 acre....I just don't have much space left to grow things that need access to dirt.


You going all farmer on us now?

There is a reason many of us buy our food. Beats the 7 day, 16 hour work put in a garden to scrape out enough food to avoid starving to death.

Posted By: samc99us

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 04:06 PM

All well and good until the electric grid we rely on to keep our food fresh gets wiped out by an x-class solar flare. What was the topic of this thread again?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Timbo
What is the point?


They make for superb Investments. "Never started" would greatly increase the value to the right buyer

but i agree, he is a total tool for stockpiling rides like those.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by MN3
[quote=Karl_Brogger]Just wish I had Jake'slot size to play with to add a man-cave that size.


My lot's actually not that big at about 1/2 acre....I just don't have much space left to grow things that need access to dirt.


You going all farmer on us now?

There is a reason many of us buy our food. Beats the 7 day, 16 hour work put in a garden to scrape out enough food to avoid starving to death.



no, no, no....just saying that my program to remove areas where things will grow (requiring maintenance) and replace it with concrete and heated work space is going quite well.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 05:03 PM

good. worst case scenario you could use them as heated greenhouses anyway, so you're in good shape.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Foiling F18... - 12/04/12 06:10 PM

You're twice the lot size of me Jake. I'm a 1/4 acre. I'm trying to jockey a 32x32 garage in there somehow so I can park the boat trailer, and both pickups inside, plus have some room to store my toy airplanes. They get the piss dinged out of them going through normal doors.
Current garage is 20x20. My diesel is 3" less in length than the hole it goes in, (a problem I'm waaaay to familiar with).

The good news is I just spent three hours figuring out the bill for job, and the builder owes me about $32k.
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