dumb question

so I'm reading on SA about some 50+ boat Melges regatta.

I can't imagine how many bazillion dollars the boat, travel, crew, equipment, and entry fees cost for boats like that... yet they have a good turnout despite that.

So what keeps the (relatively) cheap beachcat regattas from being as well attended?

Level of athleticism/effort required

Have you ever hiked on a Melges 24 when it's blowing. Absolute misery!!!!!!! I have no idea why folks would rather do that than sail in a trap harness!

Cat sailors are goons

Not dumb... Looked at this a few years ago.

My theory... the classes that race three or more on the team are far more popular... the social dynamics seem easier to manage then two man teams. You can be succesful with a range of skills on the boat... you don't absolutely need two strong sailors... You can still compete with a newbie on the boat as one of 4. ... try that with a spin cat... A newbie = No fun in a competitive race..

The Lightning Class has been strong forever... always leads the OD rankings.

The Melges classes all have great factory promotion behind them.... High profile events that attracted a wide range of sailors at their kick off. The M24 took off with lots of rank and file support... then it elevated to a gran prix level... which saw rank and file support fall off as the pro's took over and the M24 still remains strong at the semi pro level..

the new Melges 20 has a gran prix circuit that already trumps any catamran circuit... but it's not close to the M24 tragectory.

Now look at the J80 class... It is really taking off like wildfire! again... race with 3 or 4 on the team...

My take... these boat fit the market niche...social and competitive.
(They also don't capsize.... people have big issues with capsizes and swiming as part of sailing)

Cats have tried the more then two crew...
The swiss lakes have these corporate sponsored Decions 35s... the class has no rank and file appeal... Why? It's a lot of boat to handle... You don't put a newbie on that boat and survive a breeze.

YMMV

You all have some solid points.

But in reality it comes down to one thing.
Melges sailors have owners that have big big bucks and are committed to their campaign without even thinking of the costs. I've been involved with several of these campaigns (sailing on a few and selling stuff to many more) and it blows me away.

The Melges 20 has been considered by some to be a failure especially compared to what the J/70 is doing now. Sure they have a couple well attended Melges 20 regattas, but not many and not like the J/70 numbers.

I sail on a Melges 24 during the summer months. I like it because I don't pay the bils and he pays for the slip fees buys sails and all I have to do is show up with gloves and sail.

Ha, I wondered if the M20 guys thought of their class as successful... compared to the cat world yes... but compared to the Melges standard... not so much.

At the start of the M24 class... It was not a high dollar class.. It is now... and that is part of it's appeal.

Yes. the J70 is taking off... (not the older j80 my flub) Interesting that the j70 is a less technical boat as well

The sociology of 4 on a boat and how much sailing skill you need works.

Social??? Have you ever been to a Melges party? There are more women at a Hobie 17 party...

Part of our problem is that our boats are cheap, but not cheap enough. $10,000 plus for a new Hobie 16 (cheapest glass racing boat and the one that started it all) is just too much. Not saying that they can be made for less, but that's a lot of money. Used boats follow in price. Gas prices aren't helping the big regional events, either.

Mike

but would a larger crew would cause greater scheduling issues because not everyone can be there all the time?

And do these larger crew boats have better attendance than single-hand boat events (mono and multi)?

If you want to see women at a Melges 24 regatta, go to the crew weigh-in.

Compared to the cost of campaigning an M-24, almost any beachcat looks cheap. Those guys are running on a completely different race budget.

I remember being at a large mixed regatta at Columbia, SC several years with the M20 came out. I had my 6 month old Nacra F18 (1st gen) that I paid less than $14k for on the beach when several of the guys that owned new M20 came over to look at my boat. They were blown away with the low price of the F18 and couldn't get over how much boat I got for the price. I think they paid north of $25,000 for their Melges 20s.

Way north of 25K by the time an owner adds sails and electronics. Beware of any owner that lets his Melges 20 live in a slip. For further reading... http://www.americaone.org/news/sailnews/91499-farr40s.html
John Kilroy's story in the Farr 40 world - then watch Morning Light again to see how refined his act is. With Stan Honey, as a navigator, the TP 52 has enjoyed a few victories at sea. In ML Samba catches the kids, then pauses to clean a keel for the drama, only to take the brakes off and win their class in the Trans Pac. JK also owns a Melges 32 named Samba Pa Ti.

The Pegasus story is also related. I saw Phillipe Kahn's Melges 24 rig at the St. Pete NOOD in '06. A trailer for the related sails and gear with all the Pegasus graphics on the side was parked near our Corsair 24. Very cool, but not as cool as Nigel and Alex's Tommy Bahamas trailer. They carried their NACRA 20 and a mini cooper in that one :-)

Yea, if you wanna play keep up with the guy that invented cell phone cameras or designed the navigational software for automobiles...

How about some guy named Ellison?

Money in skilled hands, passionate about the sea, goes far and abroad.

Check out Fairlie Brinkley's story on Sarah and JC in Southwinds magazine this month. Long may they sail!!!

Great attendance, for this going one, this week.
http://www.miamisailingweek.com/

As many have said, Deep Pockets drives the M24 class.

It fits a monohull sweet spot; it's fast(for a keel boat), not too many crew (compared to a 45 footer) and Sexy (if you've never sailed a spin cat!).

I started out racing mono's and got up to the J24, before the M24 came out.

When it first showed up I took a look at one, I think back then (1994?) the base price was over $40K. I took my wife on board a new M24 at a dealer's. She took one look down below and said, "Are you KIDDING ME?? 40 Thousand dollars and there's not even a Pee Bucket down there??!"

I was getting tired of always having to make phone calls on Friday nights to be sure all of my J24 crew would show up Saturday mornings. I went back to dinghy racing, Lasers and JY 15 with my kids, where all I had to worry about was -me- showing up.

Now, if I had super deep pockets, and lots of -reliable- friends to crew it, I would have bought "One of Everything", ie. a big cruising boat, a medium sized racing monohull, an Open 60 trimaran, a Laser, an A cat, etc, but since I don't have deep pockets, I race what I can afford to race, with the only crew I can depend on. Right now that means an F16, Uni.

If I win the lottery, I doubt I'll buy a Melges...anything. Getting good crew to show up would still be a problem, but I will buy an A cat, a new F16, an F18, a Wave, a Hobie 16, a Gunboat 62, a couple windsurfers, and maybe that 135' trimaran that holds the around the world record. Oh, and I'll hire some strippers to crew it!

Oh, and I'll hire some strippers to crew it!

I had not thought of this:
I am heading to get my Powerball ticket right now.

Nobody loves single moms and supporting their charity more than me, but in a prison at sea with bunch of broken toys... that's just poor planning.

uh, hello.... strippers climb poles not pull ropes.

don't ask me how I know.

Timbo, why would you want a pay cut like winning the lottery?

Plus he might have to acutally work for a living. Good point Karl!

You must have me confused with your Dad. Since all the Majors declared bankruptcy, cut our pay 42%, flushed our retirements down the toilet, airline pilots don't make anywhere near what they used to. I made a lot more in 2004, as a 757 domestic pilot than today, as a 777 International pilot.

Oh, and I had $1.4 Million in my retirement plan in 2004, all gone now.

Was that the Bernie Madof 401(k)? or some Delta pension?

My 401(k) projection has me at about that amount.... if I take retirement at age 203...

Delta had what is called a Defined Benefit Retirement program. Due to favorable funding laws, they had not made a single dollar deposit to that fund in over 8 years, from 1996-2012, because the fund was growing fast, along with the stock market. But after the hijackings of 9-11, and the ensuing economic plunge, when they filed for Bankrutpcy in 2004, the fund was suddenly underfunded, buy about $4 Billion. So they flushed the Pilot's pensions and told us to talk to the PBGC. In 2004, after 19 years of service, my piece of the retirement pie was $1.4M. I got zip point nada.

To put it in perspective, I have many good pilot friends at American Airlines, which also filed Bankruptcy, but their retirement fund was not so badly underfunded, so they kept all of theirs. The guys I've talked to there with similar years of service to me (over 27 years now), have about $3 Million in their retirement funds today.

Now we have a 401K program, but we had to start from scratch, at age 50...and try to come up with enough in the short 15yr. remaining (for me), to fund our own retirements. It's all good though, our management team got huge bonuses...

I've got my retirement plan all figured out:

"Hi, Welcome to WalMart!"

Maybe different in central florida, but here in the stipper capt of the world (tampa) ... you really don't want to see the day shift in good lighting ...

I've been to Mons Venus on my Tampa layovers! I agree!

But I think I can probably get some cute ones shipped down from the Gold Club in Atlanta! Worst case, I'll have to import some from Singapore.

Dammit....That was my retirement plan. Looks like I'll have to go to plan B.

"Would you like fries with that?"

I've been telling my twin daughters, the ones with the 8 horses I just put through Auburn, "You'd BETTER get a good job, because as soon as you do, I'm moving in with YOU, and YOU can Feed ME for a change!"

I hear the Brits are eating horses now...I can't wait until we start doing it over here, I've got a lot of ribs still on the hoof, just ready and waiting!

You could always become a stripper and have Ding support you.

Thanks Jake....now I've got to spend the rest of my life getting that image out of my head.

Let me guess, management got thier pensions.

You are lost.

Oh yeah, and two Bonuses! First, they gave the 'Old managment team' a big Retention Bonus, to keep them from jumping ship at the 'critical moment'. Then, after in bankruptcy, they gave them a Severance Package, to Leave! Then, they bought out the New Guy, paid him $15 Million up front, to leave his Old Job, and take over at Delta. Since then (2007) he's made over $20M.

And yes, he's got a very nice retirement plan.

As they say, It's Good to be King!

Timbo, check your PM, message from my high school mate, and one of your fellow Delta pilots.

Could be worse, I'll probably be running a mop and handing or towels at the local cathouse.

Hey, look on the bright side Karl(s), it'll also pay...

all you can eat!

I'm going to be a meter maid....with a TAZER

"Don't Taze me Bro!"

;^)

you'll be the first on my list, Timbo... for even hinting "horses". It's hard enough to distract the grommets when we drive past horse stables and pastures without you continually reminding me the peril I face if any of them say "oooh! Horsie!"

Guys, You're just hanging around the wrong crowd.

I woke up this morning, it was cold, spitting snow, and I HATE snow. I'm thinking it's going to be a miserable day.
The phone rings and I hear "Dude, our driver bailed on us, we need you in Miami! Ticket is waiting on you at the Delta counter"

Now I'm sitting in the airport about to head south, my bag is packed with shorts, and my attitude is much better.

Melges Rocks!

Be like Mike.

Nice.

Dude...what's the flight number?

I'll call the Captain and have him move you up to First Class!

You did say you needed one more on that Melges, right? ;^)

Timbo, we do need one more.

100 lbs or less and top heavy.

-Mike

Timbo has just changed your seat to the lavatory

Mike I didn't know you were into broken toys (eating disorder + fake boobs = broken toy). Don't get me wrong I'm a fan too.

hah.

His tireless support of single-moms is legendary.