ROW Rules

A line of boats on starboard approaches a seawall obstruction. The first boat reaches where they have to call for water and tack. There are a line of more starboard boats comming up the course. The boat that tacked is now on port. Once they complete their tack are they immediately forced to give way to all the starboard boats, or is there some leeway room etc.

This question came up from a stadium type racing situation, where it was a very short distance on starboard after the start before the pin boat was forced to tack. All the boats were essentialy still lined up, so the first boat to tack and all tacking boats could effectively be pinned in behind the entire fleet.

The 2013-2016 RRS rewrote rule 20 which deals with room to tack at an obstruction. Rule 20.3 now allows for a hail to be passed on to an additional boat, even if the passed along hail no longer satisfies rule 20.1.

This applies well to the case of a stack of boats just after a start. As the leeward most boat approaches an obstruction, she can hail the boat to windward for room to tack. The windward boat must respond by either tacking, or replying "you tack" and giving the leeward boat room to tack and avoid her. If the windward boat is planning to respond by tacking, they can pass the hail on to the next boat in line, even if they are not close enough to the actual obstruction to satisfy 20.1.

As far as your rights as the tacking boat, the rules says:
20.2 (c) The hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as possible, or by immediately replying ‘You tack’ and then giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her.

So, the boat that hails must be given room to tack and avoid the boat to windward, but you are still a port tack boat upon completion of the tack and must give way to the rest of the starboard tackers.

Moral of the story- if there is a short distance from the pin to an obstruction, make sure that pin is favored so you have an escape path!

It is pretty cut and dried with over lap or very close following boats that have to give room and also passing along the obligation.

If there is room to pull off a tack but not cross but the following boats are so close that the tacking boat has to pull off a emergency bear away to duck. How is the distance or amount of room judged? If there is a collision then the argument is that there was insuficient room provided vs your are not a good enough sailor to handle your boat as I saw pleanty of room to duck.

The rules say that the boat being hailed can reply "you tack." If they choose this option, they must give the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her. After that tack is complete, however, the port tack boat must keep clear of starboard tackers, it's simply rule 10 and rule 15.

In the case where boats are on starboard approaching on obstruction, the boat that hails for room will be taking from port to starboard, and acquiring right of way. In this case, their actions are limited by rule 15.

Nothing in Rule 20 says that a boat may hail only one other boat. If a boat is in a position where she needs room to tack from multiple other boats, she can hail each of them, and each must respond under RRS 20. Room is judged according to the definition of room: "the space a boat needs in the existing conditions... while manoeuvring promptly in a seamanlike way".

An "emergency" bear away is not considered seamanlike. While tacking, and after tacking, the hailing boat is required to keep clear of the other starboard tack boats, but boat(s) hailed under rule 20 must either give her room to do so, or tack themselves.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Eric,

I don't think that hailing multiple boats is the correct way to approach that situation. If I am multiple boats up the line from a boat that needs room to tack, I'm going to reply "you tack" every time because my position doesn't directly influence that boat's ability to tack.

Instead, passing the hail on according to rule 20.3 is a much better approach, at least in my reading of the rule and from seeing similar situations develop.

Passing on the hail is for the case where the hailed boat needs to tack (in order to give the hailing boat room) but needs room from a third boat in order to do so.

As I read the original post, that is not the situation described. In this scenerio, the hailed boat is able to give room without passing on the hail, but the original hailing boat needs room from one or more additional boats.

Imagine, for example, a line of starboard-tack boats bow-to-stern on the layline to clear the end of a jetty (boats A, B, C, D, etc.). Just below the layline is another starboard-tack boat (boat Z). Z needs to tack to safely avoid the obstruction. She hails the boat beside her (A) for room. A can tack away without needing extra room from B. Therefore, A tacks without passing on Z's hail. There is not, however, enough room for Z to tack and cross B, nor enough room for her to tack and duck below B, C, D, etc. either.

In that instance, I believe Z could hail B for room to tack as well as A.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into the first question though. If instead of being bow-to-stern, the line of boats (A to D) were overlapped, then Z would hail A under rule 20.1. A would pass the hail on to B under rule 20.3. B would pass the hail on to C etc.

Regards,
Eric

Eric,

I was thinking of the second situation you describe, because the OP mentioned the situation being right after a start.

For the fist incident, I agree that hailing more than one boat may be in order, would be a tricky situation.

Overall, we agree.

In the situation that brought this up:
The first boat (Boat 1)to the wall had a boat behind and a little up (Boat 2). The hail was made and the first boat tacked at essentially the same time as the second. There was a slight lull with a header so instead of clearing the next starboard boats coming down the line (Boat 3) as it appeared they would have been able to do, before the first 2 boats had gone even 1/2 a boat length there is an impending collision. 1 and 2 are close enough that they both cannot bear away to duck without hitting each other and 1 is far enough across with no speed so the slow stalled tack would have placed them in a collision if the 3rd boat coming did not alter course and then boat 1 was back in the situation of having no water and no speed.
The beach discussion had boat 3 as the at fault boat even though they had no hail for failure to provide room. They were not hailed and the situation changed in such short time and distance, that only some really good sailing avoided a wreck. Boat 1 was on port even though they were not even settled in let alone moving to effectively maneuver. My question was how far do they have to go on port to be considered the non-right of way boat? Yes they were able to tack again, but that move placed them back in a no water position immediately after the tack.

Nah, the port boats are cheaters.


But, seriously, overlap can't possibly be a pre-requisite for giving room at an obstruction.

Giving room at an obstruction (rule 19) requires overlap. Room to tack at an obstruction (rule 20) does not.

mini,

Any chance you can draw up a diagram of the situation? Would make things much more clear. In my reading of the situation, Boat 2 would be at fault for not giving boat 1 room to duck boat 3 (assuming they were overlapped after both tacked). I don't see any reason to penalize boat 3- they were a starboard tack boat.

The correct thing to do would have been for boat 2 to pass the hail up the line to boat 3, then boat 3 would have obligations as outlined in rule 20.

A tacking boat gives up right-of-way after she passes head-to-wind. See rule 13.

Speaking hypothetically, in the situation you describe, since boat 1 did not hail boat 3 for room to tack (rule 20.1), and boat 2 did not pass along boat 1's hail (rule 20.3), boat 3 was not obligated to respond to either under rule 20.2. Boat 3 was only required to avoid contact if possible (rule 14). Boats 1 and 2 were required to keep clear of 3 (rule 10). If boat 3 needed to take action to avoid contact with boat 1 and/or boat 2, then boat 1 and/or boat 2 would have broken rule 10.

Even if I drew it, I have never figured out to post on this forum.

At the time boat 1 hailed 2, both should have been able to clear boat 3 with a reasonbly executed tack. The conditions changed instantly during the tacks. 3 should have been able to see this as they were not trying to execute any manouvers. However the changing conditions provided a big lift to boat 3 and they would have then been able to sail quite a bit further before they ran out of water. My question again is how much room would the port boat have after they were forced to tack because of an obstruction before being forced back yet again. (The answer of a seaman like turn is not so good. Note the other thread about why people have issues with protests)

Both 1 and 2 made the tack to port but were not moving compounded by the fact the wind shift affected their tack. There was not time or room for both to duck boat 3 and once 2 started to duck 3 had to continue forward or get hit by 2. No hails were made other than all 3 boats were forced into immediate action to avoid collisions.

Boats 4-6 all could have continued on starboard in the lift as well, but bailed as 1 when they saw the mess with 1-3

Still sounds like boat 1 and 2 broke rule 10. Boat 3 avoided a collision, as they should, and should then protest the port tack boat(s).

Wind shifts do not excuse boats from their obligations under the rules.

Understood. Boat 1 had to tack when they did. When boat 1 started their tack boat 3 was under no obligations to also tack. The wind changed before the boats were on to port tack and under the new wind direction the position of the boats would have been such that boat 3 would have been in the line of obligation to provide room. This is unless a starboard boat can force the port boat to immediately tack back into a no water or almost no water situation, because there was not room to pull off a safe duck.

Without a proper hail there is no "line of obligation to provide room." Boat 3 was a starboard ROW boat. Boat 1 broke 10 or 13.

Why do I get the feeling that both mini and Jeff.Dusek were involved in this incident?

Not involved, just trying to answer the question. We had a talk on the changes in the 2013-2016 rules at frostbiting on Sunday, and one of the talking points was rule 20.3.

This reminds me precisely of what it's like to do the
'Rough Rider Regatta', especially when it used to go up the intercoastal waterway, for about a hundred miles.

There was usually a 'continuous obstruction' from the shallows outside the channel.

People that knew the rules played it fair, and sometimes a line of 3 or 4 boats would have to tack, b/c the lead boat was nearing the 'obstruction'- shallows.
That was usually about 10 boats out of 100+!

They even put the rule verbage in the NOR and R.I. at least one year.

Those were the days!

This discussion now is going to follow the playing by the rules discussion a couple of threads away.

The result was boat 1 jammed back to starboard and sat stalled until everyone was clear and gone. Boat 2 gained a few gray hairs but made the duck. Boat 3 continued on starboard lifted tack with nothing but a small pinch up to miss rubbing sides with 1.

99% of the racing that is done is for “fun” Rough riders for example, and in those events the starboard boats down the line all see what is coming and typically clear out before they have to play the boat handling game and start throwing rules. In a high level event there are those who add rule pushing for advantage to their skill set. Depending on the situation this can be considered a great tactical play and in others a dick move.

Boat 1 was knocked completely out of the race. Boat 3 did have to alter course to keep clear but the wind was extremely variable here and they lost essentially nothing in the process. Boat 1, if Jeff’s interpretation of the rules is correct, committed a foul. Boat 1 had to run a tack when they did so they do not feel they were at fault. Is it following the rules or a dick move for 3 to protest 1? How many of you guys would be happy to have to take time in the evening to sit in a protest room on this one?

If I was boat 3 and only made a small course change, I would not protest boat 1 because they tacked back to starboard, fulfilling their obligation as a give way boat. The way you describe the incident it sounds like boat 2 might be most at fault for not either passing along the hail, or providing room for boat 1 to duck. I honestly don't think boat 3 was pushing the rules. They were a starboard tack boat and received no hail for room to tack.

In the situation you are describing, the pin end boat is taking a calculated risk with their starting position. If you get a good start, and the pin is slightly favored, you are first to the beach/pier and that can be a race winning move. If you don't get a good start, however, you need to be prepared to make a lot of painful ducks on port because you know there is going to be a line of boats that started further up the line and are all trying to hold all the way to the obstruction. This situation is very common when there is current relief against a shoreline.

Somebody has to start at the pin.

Again this is my question: If there is room to tack but not clear at what distance point etc is the requirement enforce to pass along or follow the hail? 1 might be able to pull off a full 180 tack to enact a duck or if 3 pushes its starboard rights 1 feels it cannot safely pull off a duck and has to immediately tack back into a no water situation.

My point above about people playing clean is if this went to a committee, it is likely to become pure speculation on the outcome at most events. This whole room to safely manouver really depends on the skill of the sailors in question. Who is pushing it, who is calling this issue and how do you judge being fair.

Take another look at rule 20.2(c). It says:
"The hailed boat shall respond either by tacking as soon as possible, or by immediately replying "You tack" and then giving the hailing boat room to tack and avoid her."

In this scenerio, Boat 2 satisfied rule 20.2(c) by tacking. She is not required to give Boat 1 room to avoid her. In fact, if both boats had tried to duck Boat 3, Boat 1 might have been required to give Boat 2 room to avoid Boat 3 under rule 19.2(b).

Regards,
Eric

Not sure about this specific incident, but I know that it occurred frequently (almost every start) in the ACWS F18 NE fleet demo in Newport, where Jeff and I sailed different boats. While I am unaware of any dangerous incidents, the proximity of the Fort Adams seawall to a reaching start line meant that pin end boat was necessarily in close proximity to the seawall, and commonly invoked the obstruction rule/hail for tack by the next nearest boat. This cascaded down a few boats in one start. We generally all tacked in sequence, and in one instance we ducked the next nearest starboard boat that refused our hail (Jeff, 1 guess who that scofflaw was!...)-safe. Tactically, we figured that pressing the pin was a slow gambit. In subsequent instances, we and others, crowded the boat end, deciding that pin end was tactically a slow gambit. (In another instance, we just waited in the back, while the pack crowded and crabbed the boat end, and just heated up fast on port with a late start, and flew past a lot of people. That was our second best race of the day...)

The important thing is for the sailors to look ahead and take action before they run out of water. Imagine Boat A is sailing close-hauled on starboard tack, approaching an obstruction that is not a mark, and that will require her to tack to pass it safely. She looks around and sees Boats B, C, and D, all astern and to windward. A realizes that she cannot tack and avoid Boat B. She can probably tack and cross Boat C, but given the shifty wind conditions, is not sure. A is confident that she can avoid Boat D. A then should hail both B and C individually, for room to tack (RRS 20.1).

Boat B then looks around, decides she needs to tack but realizes that she cannot tack and avoid Boat E, who is on B's weather hip. Boat B passes along the hail by requesting room to tack from Boat E (RRS 20.3).

Boat C decides she can continue straight, and alter course if necessary to give A room to avoid her. C responds to A's hail by replying "You tack" (RRS 20.2(c), second clause).

Boat E looks around, decides she needs to tack, and fortunately there is no boat preventing her from doing so. E responds to B's hail by tacking as soon as possible (RRS 20.2(c), first clause).

When E tacks, B must tack as soon as possible (RRS 20.2(c) and 20.2(d)).

When B tacks, A must tack as soon as possible (RRS 20.2(d)). Boat C must then give A room to tack and avoid her (RRS 20.2(c)).

To avoid incident, all this must play out before Boat A reaches the obstruction. Therefore, it is vitally important that she assess her situation and evaluate her needs and risks well before she has to maneuver. Not only must Boat A act herself, but she must hail early enough to give other boats time to act as well.

In the scenerio described, Boat 1 did not anticipate her needs well enough in advance, did not hail Boat 3 for necessary room, and consequently sailed into an untenable position. She had to make emergency maneuvers that cost her the race. Boat 2 did not protect herself by passing the hail on to Boat 3. As a result, she had to take a risky duck and wound up fouling Boat 3. Boat 2 should have taken a penalty. Boat 3 fulfilled her obligations under the rules. Because no boat hailed her for room, she was not required to give it. She acted to avoid contact as required by rule 14. She would have been entirely within her rights to protest Boat 2. Fortunately for Boat 3, her position in the race was not adversely affected.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Absolutely agree with you about 20.2(c).

The way I was visualizing the scenario is that after 1 and 2 tacked to port, 2 was now a leeward ROW boat and boat 3 was an obstruction to 1 and 2. In that case, boat 2 can choose to duck 3, but if there is overlap she must give 1 room to duck as well (19.2(b)). Again, I think we're saying the same thing, just hard without a diagram!

Excellent summary!

Jeff writes

Excellent summary!

I add
of how the rules application make for an orderly transition on the water. This occurs when the rules are honored.

The rules were not dishonored and used as a weapon to blow one boat or two out of the game.


That of course may happen if someone does not plan ahead and know how the rules are supposed to work and behave accordingly as Eric makes very clear.

Enjoyed reading this one!

Eric,

Just a question on obligations here.

Every boat in line knew the wall was close. Boat 1 turned and hailed that they needed water and were going to tack. They did not specifically hail any boat, but it was heard down the line to at least the 6th boat. #2 and several others immediately initiated their own tacks to get clear. At the time water was called for 1 and 2 should have been clear. 3 rode the wind change and then forced the now port boat back into a tack. If formal hails were given and time presented for a response, literaly they would have almost had to start before the gun sounded if more than 2 boats were involved and they had to be handed down the line and not just generally hailed by the lead boat.

While the rules apply quite well (surprisingly so) in the vast majority of on-the-water encounters, there are some pathological cases where they break down. A course with a starting line so close to an obstruction that boats have to avoid it immediately after starting is just asking for trouble. Race Committee should never set such a course. If RC is compelled to set that course by the Organizing Authority, I don't think I'd race there.

Ummm, I'd say it's good that you didn't start this race here, with these guys...

Sorry to be snarky, but obstructions, even at starts, are routinely encountered situations, paricularly in sheltered waters. I kinda suck but race enough to know with the right experience, obstructions are interesting, strategic race course variables.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. All the ACWS races I watched had a reaching start followed by a short sprint to the first rounding mark. I don't recall ever seeing an obstruction in between the two as part of the course. Which race are you referring to?

If you can tell me where race committee routinely sets a starting line so close to an obstruction that boats must immediately tack to safely avoid it, then yes - I will add it to my list of places not to race.

The whole stadium racing format to try and get thing closer to the public is what will drive this. Look at the Extreme 40's they have this, although they also run special rules when it suits them.

The racing area will be constrained, yes, but Race Committee still should not set a course with a significant obstruction immediately beyond the starting line.

If RC does, then in answer to your previous question, boats may indeed need to start hailing for room to tack right after the starting signal.

...when they're all stacked up exposing a (difficult to avoid) situation where it's difficult to enforce a rule.

The gold medal race for the 2008 Olympic Multi-hulls was set up in such a manner. The entire fleet except for Greece chose to start on port.
Bejing Olympics