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Cat Refinishing--What's your take?

Posted By: JACKFLASH

Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 06:58 PM

I regelcoated my Infusion about 2 years ago with decent results except the results don't last at all. Jake has been kind enough to explain why that happens. So once again I am taking off all of the old gelcoat. I definately want to use paint this time for longer lasting effect.
I would like to hear from people in the group who have repainted their catamaran, what they painted it with, and rather or not they would use the same product again and why. Thank you in advance for your input.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 07:18 PM

If you go to a painted hull, doesn't that mean you need to strip ALL of the gelcoat off?
Posted By: catman

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 07:35 PM

No.
Posted By: yurdle

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I regelcoated my Infusion about 2 years ago with decent results except the results don't last at all. Jake has been kind enough to explain why that happens.


How did the results not last, and why?
Posted By: bacho

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 07:56 PM

Thought about a wrap?
Posted By: captnickm

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 08:13 PM

Hey Collin,
I dont know if you saw the 18square that I painted over the winter, but it turned out pretty good for just rolling and tipping it. I used awlgrip and am very happy with it. It is very forgiving. Just like any paint jon its all about the prep work.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by yurdle
Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I regelcoated my Infusion about 2 years ago with decent results except the results don't last at all. Jake has been kind enough to explain why that happens.


How did the results not last, and why?


In a nutshell, there are a lot of variables. Cure temperatures and catylist ratio, quality of the gelcoat, thinners, additives, etc. will affect porosity. Gelcoats are porous inside with a non-porous skin on the outside and they are really intended to be applied in a female mold. When it's done this way, the outer surface (in contact with the smooth and fair mold that won't require refinishing) is non porous and last a long time. Once the sun and environment finally gets through that outer layer of gelcoat, the boat becomes harder to keep shiny as the porosity makes the gelcoat more susceptible to breaking down and it will not hold a finish as long.

When we gelcoat on an exterior surface, you have to sand through the outside layer and polish to remove the orange peel to achieve a smooth surface. Once you do that, you remove the durable solid layer and expose the more porous layer that won't hold a finish as long.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 08:24 PM

That explains much of the struggles I have had with some repairs.
Posted By: catman

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/21/13 08:37 PM

There are good quality Gelcoats that last longer than two years. The place I buy my stuff from have 2 or 3 different types. While I'm not using it anymore adding Duratec additive will make your Gelcoat better.

Another cause of early failure is not finishing the surface properly to begin with. Any sanding or buffing scratches left will accelerate the degradation. I wet sand to #800 or 1000 then use a product called Aqua Buff 2000.

A couple options, Sand without going through the color and coat the existing surface with Duratec Clear Coat (different than the additive) which is a high quality polyester product or sand and coat with a quality urethane (car clear coat). The only issue with clear coating is, are you doing repairs and is the color on the boat consistent?

If your just going to paint look at Awlcraft 2000. Whatever you do get something that can be sanded and buffed. I would stay away from polyurethanes.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/24/13 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I regelcoated my Infusion about 2 years ago with decent results except the results don't last at all.


What is the particular issue? Is it coming off entirely? Fading?
Posted By: tomthouse

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/24/13 02:47 PM

Here's some things to think about regarding cat refinishing:

"New Shine for an Old Hull"

(This article was originally published on SailNet in October, 1999, authored by Don Casey.)

http://www.sailnet.com/collections/articles/index.cfm?articleid=caseyd008


There comes a time in the life of every aging sailboat when the hull finally loses all its gloss. No amount of scrubbing or waxing or compounding will restore it. The gelcoat is dead, period. R.I.P.

A stroll through any marina will reveal that the apparent response of many boat owners to this eventuality is little more than a shrug. And why not? Boats sail just as well sans gloss. But the pleasures of a sailboat are not limited to a cracking reach or a smooth tack, and as the surface of the gelcoat erodes, it can take with it a good portion of the joy of boat ownership. If you don't enjoy your boat as much as you once did, maybe it's because it no longer evokes the same sense of pride. This typically has less to do with how a boat sails than how it looks.

You can restore that new-boat gloss—better than new, really—with an application of linear polyurethane paint. If your boat is valuable and your pockets are deep, you may want to have the paint applied professionally, but when you own a $10,000 boat, a $10,000 paint job can be hard to justify. Fortunately there is an alternative that reduces the cost of painting the hull to about $10 per foot of boat length, excluding haulout fees.

Is it really possible to get a great looking finish from paint applied by the "roll-and-tip" method? That is the question I am asked more often than any other, and the answer is an unequivocal yes.

Here is a true story: In the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew, I found myself in the boatyard repairing some abrasions to the hull of our old Seawind, and this necessitated repainting the hull. There was a lot of repainting going on around me, most of it funded by insurance payments. The pros were spraying; I rolled. Three times before I splashed, other boat owners dragged the yard manager over to our boat to ask why their hull didn't look as good as ours.

What they were seeing was not superior skill but higher gloss. Spraying polyurethane requires an aggressive (and dangerous) solvent that flashes off quickly, taking gloss with it. The slower solvent for roller application doesn't have this effect. These sailors saw only the gloss; none noticed that the paint had been applied by a roller.

There is nothing particularly difficult about applying polyurethane to the uninterrupted expanses of hull topsides, but getting perfect results takes a little practice. You can get that productively by painting your dinghy first. If you don't have a hard dinghy, a few inquiries will usually turn up one that the owner would be happy to see refinished. The worse condition it is in, the better. If you can't, scrounge up a dinghy, paint a dock box, a discarded hatch cover, or even plastic laminate (Formica).

The one thing you have to keep in mind with polyurethane is that it doesn't hide anything. Nothing. The paint goes on water thin, and the high gloss accentuates every flaw in the surface. So if you want a perfect finish, you have to be willing to sand and fill and sand some more. Fortunately this is not as difficult as it sounds.

Start by washing and dewaxing the fiberglass. Even if the hull (or, in this case, the dinghy) has never been waxed, the pores in the gelcoat are still harboring mold release that will interfere with the adhesion of the paint. Use a dewaxing solvent and turn and change your rag often.

Sand the dewaxed surface lightly with 120-grit paper—a palm sander makes this go quickly—then fill any obvious gouges with epoxy filler. Sand again and apply two coats of epoxy primer, sanding between coats. The primer will normally take care of both crazing and porosity; use fairing compound between primer coats to fill larger flaws. When you have sanded (and wiped) the second primer coat to a flawless surface, you are ready to apply the polyurethane.

Mix up a small amount of paint, following the manufacturer's instructions for the proper ratio of part A to part B. Here comes the tricky part. The key to getting a perfect finish is adding just the right amount of thinner, but that can vary from day to day, depending on temperature, humidity, and wind. To get it right, you have to sneak up on it. A piece of propped-up window glass will help you get the mixture right.

Start with slightly less thinner than the manufacturer recommends, then brush a small amount of this mix onto the vertical glass. If the paint runs or sags, you already have too much thinner, but it is more likely that you will have too little thinner at this point, exhibited by brush marks in the paint. If these do not disappear entirely in a couple of minutes, add a little thinner and try again. Don't get impatient; keep thinning and testing until the stroke marks disappear.

Pour this mixture into your paint tray and use your foam roller for one final test application on the glass. Lightly drag a dry brush through the paint to smooth it and eliminate bubbles. You need a top-quality badger or an ox-hairbrush for this. Wait a minute or two and the paint should flow out mirror-smooth.

Now just do the same thing to the surface of the dinghy, always working a single wet edge and dragging your brush out through the new roller application from just behind the old wet edge. The job is easier with two people, one rolling and one tipping. Painting with polyurethane is a sprint. Work fast and never go back. You will sand out any flaws after the paint dries.

Let the first coat cure overnight, then wet sand it with 340-grit paper. You can make it easier to see where you have sanded by lightly misting the surface before you start with a contrasting color of spray lacquer. Be sure to wash off all the sanding scum.

Mix and test your paint again to get it exactly right, then apply the second coat. Two coats are normally adequate, but if you aren't satisfied, apply one more. By then you will have the hang of it, and your results are sure to be spectacular. You are ready now to put the same mirror finish on your hull.

The new shine will last into the backside of the next decade; so, too, will the satisfaction.

Six Steps Toward a New Gloss

1. Wash and de-wax the fiberglass. (I like using Naptha for de-waxing or wax remover.)

2. Sand with 120-grit paper, or use a palm sander. Fill gouges with epoxy filler and follow with sanding. Return with two coats of epoxy primer, sanding between coats.

3. Carefully following directions, mix the polyurethane paint. Do a propped-up-window-glass test. Then pour into tray and repeat propped glass test.

4. Employing the roll and tip method, apply the paint, using a foam roller, and follow up with brush.

5. Allow coat to cure overnight then wet sand with 340-grit paper.

6. Wash off sanding scum. After mixing and test paint again, apply second coat.
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I regelcoated my Infusion about 2 years ago with decent results except the results don't last at all.


What is the particular issue? Is it coming off entirely? Fading?


Fading is why I am not happy with the finish. Repairs are why I have decided to do something about it.
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by catman

Whatever you do get something that can be sanded and buffed. I would stay away from polyurethanes.


I thought all paints could be sanded and buffed. I know that base coat/clear coat can be sanded and buffed as long as you do not sand through the clear. I don't intend to do a base/clear for the simple reason that repairs will usually leave you with a halo effect around the repair due to fading of the clear coat. This is why bodyshops won't spot repair a body panel but instead will paint an entire panel.
Why would you stay away from polyurethanes?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
Originally Posted by catman

Whatever you do get something that can be sanded and buffed. I would stay away from polyurethanes.


I thought all paints could be sanded and buffed. I know that base coat/clear coat can be sanded and buffed as long as you do not sand through the clear. I don't intend to do a base/clear for the simple reason that repairs will usually leave you with a halo effect around the repair due to fading of the clear coat. This is why bodyshops won't spot repair a body panel but instead will paint an entire panel.
Why would you stay away from polyurethanes?



cross linked polyurethanes (the one's with the 2 part additive) are very tough and extremely difficult to sand...sanding/buffing isn't recommended. You better get those right out of the gun.
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 06:51 AM

[quote=Jake

cross linked polyurethanes (the one's with the 2 part additive) are very tough and extremely difficult to sand...sanding/buffing isn't recommended. You better get those right out of the gun. [/quote]

Tougher than gelcoat? Don't get me wrong, I don't know everything, hence why I posted the question in the first place. I just thought Gelcoat was the hardest stuff to sand and buff in the coatings world. I was hoping this time for something that would hold a pretty good shine for a long time and would be easy to do small repairs and even relatively easy to recoat the bottom as needed.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
[quote=Jake

cross linked polyurethanes (the one's with the 2 part additive) are very tough and extremely difficult to sand...sanding/buffing isn't recommended. You better get those right out of the gun.


Tougher than gelcoat? Don't get me wrong, I don't know everything, hence why I posted the question in the first place. I just thought Gelcoat was the hardest stuff to sand and buff in the coatings world. I was hoping this time for something that would hold a pretty good shine for a long time and would be easy to do small repairs and even relatively easy to recoat the bottom as needed. [/quote]

Yes...harder than gelcoat. When guys are refinishing boats already painted with the stuff, they try all sorts of things - even sandblasting, to remove it.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 01:28 PM

would a light coat of some of those shiny/slippery bottom paints work? Pretty pricey, but maybe they offer similar finishes without the anti-fouling compounds?
Posted By: catman

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
Originally Posted by catman

Whatever you do get something that can be sanded and buffed. I would stay away from polyurethanes.


I thought all paints could be sanded and buffed. I know that base coat/clear coat can be sanded and buffed as long as you do not sand through the clear. I don't intend to do a base/clear for the simple reason that repairs will usually leave you with a halo effect around the repair due to fading of the clear coat. This is why body shops won't spot repair a body panel but instead will paint an entire panel.
Why would you stay away from polyurethanes?


There was a good article regarding polyurethanes ,I can't find it but the jest is as the poly's cure the good stuff rises to the surface in a very thin, very hard layer. If you sand through this (and you will) you open the softer undercoat to the elements. Like Jake said if you get it right then it's fine as long as you don't plan on doing spot repairs. I remember when we built Kialoa IV the painter orange peeled a good portion of the hull using Awlgrip. The only way to fix was sand it smooth and spray it again. A lot of work and a lot of money on an 80ft hull. So in the future if you want to do small repairs to a poly paint you'll have to re coat the whole boat or at least the side to have a perfect finish.

I used to do small paint repair for car dealerships. I would say most of the cars I did spot work on wouldn't halo. Almost always you would see it on darker colors without flake or pearl like Black or Jaguar British Racing Green. The halo would appear when using the clear coat thinner to blend the edges. I believe since I did most of my work outside in the Florida sun part of the cause was the amount of thinner I would spray trying to blend the edge because the heat was curing the paint so fast. I can't remember ever seeing it happen on a white car. Now a days there are blending solvents that will not halo.

The advantage of Gelcoat is, it's so easy to repair.

There are single stage (no clear coat) urethanes you might want to check out. Never use anything without a catalyst.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
Originally Posted by Jake

cross linked polyurethanes (the one's with the 2 part additive) are very tough and extremely difficult to sand...sanding/buffing isn't recommended. You better get those right out of the gun.


[/quote
Tougher than gelcoat? Don't get me wrong, I don't know everything, hence why I posted the question in the first place. I just thought Gelcoat was the hardest stuff to sand and buff in the coatings world. I was hoping this time for something that would hold a pretty good shine for a long time and would be easy to do small repairs and even relatively easy to recoat the bottom as needed.


Gel coat is on the other end of the spectrum,(pretty soft) which is a good thing seeing how you have to sand orange peel unless you're very good at cyphering,mixing,and applying it and also use duratec. Llook at Awlgrip, Alexseal or Interlux-perfection for hard non-workable coatings.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 04:25 PM

Collin, you saw my boat now. It looks literally brand new. I had it done with PPG.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 06:26 PM

Lee, can you elaborate on what you did?

I'm weighting options about giving Undecided a face lift.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/25/13 08:28 PM

I had a local marine paint shop repaint it with PPG. They redid the no-skid and decks as well. It looks like it just came from the factory. The color came in just a tad lighter than I had hoped for but it looks awesome. I also had them lay up the rear beam beds with carbon since this was a common failure point for these boats with a lot of distance racing on them. They then bedded the beams, let it set, removed them, then painted it.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 03:23 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Lee, can you elaborate on what you did?

I'm weighting options about giving Undecided a face lift.


If you plan on doing your own repairs, gel coat is easier if you don't know how to shoot paint. I just re-did an A cat that had a bad paint job ,long board faired, primed and had a buddy shoot it.I had some issues with the paint and some with my driving ,so learned how to shoot the repairs myself. Take my word for it , when it is all said and done gelcoat is easier to apply but requires maintenance. Paint is a pain but holds up longer without as much maintenance.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 12:21 PM

I had gelcoat work done to it a while ago... its not exactly great looking these days.

I'm just trying to get options together for costs. Not likely that the wife will let me sell her so I got to do something about her looks. She's beyond what a good rubbing compound and buffing can accomplish.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 12:25 PM

"Not likely that the wife will let me sell her so I got to do something about her looks."

You might want to rewrite that... jus' sayin'.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 12:28 PM

Why?

Its the truth.


edit: I see what you're saying.

"Its not likely that the wife will let me sell the boat...."
Posted By: orphan

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 12:31 PM

Have you tried Newglass2? If you just have old dull gelcoat this stuff really works. I scrub the boat well with comet cleanser(gets rid of stains and removes oxidation). Rinse, dry, and apply about 5 coats. Just wipe it on. I do this at the beginning of each year and the boat looks like new. This stuff will seal the gelcoat to help prevent further stains. It is about 40 dollars a bottle and I can redo the boat about 4 times with each bottle. If you have repairs to cover this will not work but if it is just old looking gelcoat give it a try.
http://www.newglass2.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 12:40 PM

Yeah I had a bottom job done about 4 years ago where the gelcoat never really kicked.

Plus some patches that are just ugly... some nonskid stains that I can't get out...

Nose repair gelcoat is flaking off... I'm just at wits end with it and want to get it taken care of so I can just forget about it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 01:26 PM

great product for adding shine and luster to old gelcoat but does not hold up to fl sun and saltwater. I have used the product for the past 2 years and it requires semi frequent re-coating. not that hard to do, but if adding 4-6 layers of product every 4 months gets old too.

Originally Posted by orphan
Have you tried Newglass2? If you just have old dull gelcoat this stuff really works. I scrub the boat well with comet cleanser(gets rid of stains and removes oxidation). Rinse, dry, and apply about 5 coats. Just wipe it on. I do this at the beginning of each year and the boat looks like new. This stuff will seal the gelcoat to help prevent further stains. It is about 40 dollars a bottle and I can redo the boat about 4 times with each bottle. If you have repairs to cover this will not work but if it is just old looking gelcoat give it a try.
http://www.newglass2.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 02:07 PM

I decided that the N20 was and still is such a fantastic boat and knew I'd regret selling it, so that's why I dumped some money into it to make me happier about keeping it. Whatever my next boat ends up being...I'm going to sand down the gel coat and have it painted.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 02:25 PM

Lee, what was the aprox total cost (for paint alone) to get you cat done.

was that rate discounted at all?
Posted By: catman

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by MN3
great product for adding shine and luster to old gelcoat but does not hold up to fl sun and saltwater. I have used the product for the past 2 years and it requires semi frequent re-coating. not that hard to do, but if adding 4-6 layers of product every 4 months gets old too.

Originally Posted by orphan
Have you tried Newglass2? If you just have old dull gelcoat this stuff really works. I scrub the boat well with comet cleanser(gets rid of stains and removes oxidation). Rinse, dry, and apply about 5 coats. Just wipe it on. I do this at the beginning of each year and the boat looks like new. This stuff will seal the gelcoat to help prevent further stains. It is about 40 dollars a bottle and I can redo the boat about 4 times with each bottle. If you have repairs to cover this will not work but if it is just old looking gelcoat give it a try.
http://www.newglass2.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi


It would also be fair to say you use your boat much more than the average person and can because of the weather here. For someone in the northern regions where they may get only 6 months to sail and doesn't want to refinish their boat and wants a shine that keeps the stain away the polymer products are good.

One thing about the polymer stuff, like paint unless you apply it in a paint booth stuff in the air will get into it. After the last coat rub it lightly with a clay bar to get a smooth surface.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 05:34 PM

I don't know what the break down was for the paint. Overall cost to have it done was $3400.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 05:58 PM

sounds about what i would expect
thanks
Originally Posted by TeamChums
I don't know what the break down was for the paint. Overall cost to have it done was $3400.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/26/13 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Yeah I had a bottom job done about 4 years ago where the gelcoat never really kicked.

Plus some patches that are just ugly... some nonskid stains that I can't get out...

Nose repair gelcoat is flaking off... I'm just at wits end with it and want to get it taken care of so I can just forget about it.


Interesting - which color is flaking off? The white I sprayed on there had duratec additive (I didn't do the yellow).
Posted By: PTP

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/27/13 11:44 PM

My 2 cents:
I refinished the dagger and rudder on my F31 a couple years ago and used interlux perfection which is a 2 part polyurethane paint. Not too hard to get a good finish (I rolled and tipped) but the real problem is dings. You can't simply "re-touch" with this paint. I think Jake alluded to this in one of his responses. I found a work around- fill with filler, sand gently then feather the area with gloss enamel spray paint. This is on the rudder which doesn't stay in the water full time. Yes, not very elegant and seems stupid after all the effort of the perfection, but it works and beats the hell out of dealing with those toxic fumes again. If I have to redo the rudder again, I really might just use the enamel spray paint!!!
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/28/13 12:33 AM

I was on the Awlgrip site and read about the Awlcract 2000. Seems like a pretty good product. One thing I like about it in the instructions you apply coat after coat without sanding inbetween as long as they are done in a specified time limit. With all of the Interlux products its says to coat, cure, sand, repeat.
Does anyone know rather or not you can do a repair with the Awlcraft 2000 by feathering, spraying, sanding, and buffing to blend in the repair? My hope is not to ever redo this boat again but to only make repairs and redo the bottom as necessary.
Posted By: PTP

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/28/13 12:50 AM

spraying might work, but I wasn't interested in spraying it as I don't have a good enough ventilation system to deal with the isocyanates in the paint
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/28/13 02:52 AM

Originally Posted by JACKFLASH
I was on the Awlgrip site and read about the Awlcract 2000. Seems like a pretty good product. One thing I like about it in the instructions you apply coat after coat without sanding inbetween as long as they are done in a specified time limit. With all of the Interlux products its says to coat, cure, sand, repeat.
Does anyone know rather or not you can do a repair with the Awlcraft 2000 by feathering, spraying, sanding, and buffing to blend in the repair? My hope is not to ever redo this boat again but to only make repairs and redo the bottom as necessary.


Look into Alexseal. Same guy who invented Awlgrip products after his no compete clause ran out, when he sold Awlgrip to Interlux. He took everything he learned in the meantime and applied it to Alexseal. It's repairable.
Posted By: Sloansailing

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/28/13 06:38 PM

An acrylic paint like AwlCraft or AlexSeal will allow you to repair the coating without too much difficulty and without swirl marks. As stated previously in some posts the true poly-urethanes like AwlGrip are nearly impossible to repair without swirl marks because of the "shell" that they have on the outside of the finish when they cure.

A product to consider, especially for rudders and boards, is Interlux Performance Epoxy. Its a really tough epoxy paint with teflon additive. Wet sands to a very slippery finish, can be repaired easily. Buffs out to a pretty nice shine, though not as shiny as a topcoat paint. Basically it gets you the repairability of gelcoat with the hardness of epoxy. Great stuff. If I re-finished my boat thats what I'd use.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/28/13 07:10 PM

Sloan you've basically solid me already. Is this the product you are recommending? http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=2330

For repairs do you still suggest spraying vs. rolling?
Posted By: Rickh

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/29/13 12:26 PM

I have done several keel boat bottoms with performance epoxy, and several years ago did my A Cat hulls. It buffs out like glass with wool pad and water-after wet sanding around 1500. Sand as soon as possible after application-its a really hard finish after a few days. Definitely spray, and repairs are almost invisible.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/29/13 04:41 PM

Ian and Rick,
Is the stuff in Sam's link the right stuff?
Posted By: JACKFLASH

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 06/30/13 06:32 PM

I have also used the Interlux performance epoxy on underside of a J24. It is great stuff. Good luck getting GT300 sticker or the like to stick once your sailing. The VC Epoxy has a teflon aditive in it.
Posted By: Sloansailing

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/01/13 08:01 PM

Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/01/13 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


Bah

Only available in white frown
Posted By: h18catsailor

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/01/13 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


Bah

Only available in white frown


Well....you could finally "decide" grin
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/01/13 09:00 PM

Quote

Quote


Bah

Only available in white frown


Well....you could finally "decide" grin


Well I had... gun metal grey.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/01/13 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


I'll talk to Bobby and see what he can do for me, he's a 5 minute walk from my place. My bottom is in pretty good shape after all the hours of sanding, gelcoating, sanding, gelcoating then polishing I did back in April. Might want my boards re-faired before nationals but I can sand and happen to know where a paint booth is hidden smile
Posted By: Sloansailing

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


Bah

Only available in white frown


Pigment
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


Bah

Only available in white frown


Pigment


unpredictable results.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 02:54 PM

boat wrap, perhaps?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
boat wrap, perhaps?


I've been trying to find a few folks interested in this so I can justify buying the material to produce several hull wraps....the stuff isn't that cheap and you have to buy in bulk. It's not something I really care to get into from a business perspective, but I hate to buy $1,200 in materials to just do my boat.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 03:13 PM

Jake, what's the shelf life of the stuff?
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 03:20 PM

Jake hit me up I'm interested.
Posted By: Sloansailing

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


Bah

Only available in white frown


Pigment


unpredictable results.


What kind of pigments did you try? I've never done it, always just applied it white. I would think an epoxy pigment (like the West System black pigment) if mixed thoroughly would work.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 04:05 PM

I'm with Jake on the pigment. Tried it once (West Systems Green), granted on a lighter weight part where using lots of pigment wasn't an option, and ended up with splotches of pigment strewn throughout the part, it looked ugly. Black may do OK since it's black.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 04:32 PM

Sounds like you didn't mix it thoroughly. Not a pigment problem. I can't vouch for epoxy based pigments ,but they work fine in gel-coat as long as you play by the rules.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
Jake, what's the shelf life of the stuff?


They say 2 years on the shelf. The print life (before significant signs of fading) is nine years. The recommended interval of application is about 5 years (before it becomes a real pain to remove). There is an intermediate level of material with a 5 year print life...but typically these are harder to remove (I really don't know in this case)
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by bacho
Jake, what's the shelf life of the stuff?


They say 2 years on the shelf. The print life (before significant signs of fading) is nine years. The recommended interval of application is about 5 years (before it becomes a real pain to remove). There is an intermediate level of material with a 5 year print life...but typically these are harder to remove (I really don't know in this case)


What is the durability? Meaning, how would it take beach landings?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 06:19 PM

I wouldn't wrap it all the way to the bottom and would stay short of where the cat trax will rub the hulls. I intend to wrap mine down low and use a batten to guide a razor blade to trim it back near the waterline about an inch or so clear of where the cat trax cradles slide. It's a little more durable than straight up solid color vinyl because it will have a flexible PVC laminate over the printed vinyl for UV and general protection - but you can scratch it with a trap hook or other hard thing. It's the same material as you see on the printed car wraps - it can handle 90 miles an hour and will resist rocks and sand and hold up for years but it's not a hard coating like paint or gel coat. It wouldn't survive long on the bottom of the boat if you are sliding up the beach. It can be patched (reprint a small section) and removed and/or changed on a whim.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 07:25 PM

Weight though. Probably an extra four-five pounds you'd be dragging around.

Although, a mural of a B29 flying away from a mushroom cloud with "It's Miller Time!" down the side of one hull is rather intriguing.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Although, a mural of a B29 flying away from a mushroom cloud with "It's Miller Time!" down the side of one hull is rather intriguing.


You are one dark mother fu@#er Karl. Good to see that marriage hasn't changed you a bit.
Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 07:32 PM

The wrap Mike had put on the C20 was pretty cool and held up well. It did not go under the hull like Jake said so not a problem with the beach. We did scratch it in a few places when it got hot (the solid black parts) because it was a little softer, but overall very durable. Mike took it off after a couple of years when he sold the boat so maybe he will let us know how that went.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/02/13 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Although, a mural of a B29 flying away from a mushroom cloud with "It's Miller Time!" down the side of one hull is rather intriguing.


You are one dark mother fu@#er Karl. Good to see that marriage hasn't changed you a bit.



I actually wanted to get something like that on the back of my work trailer.... Kinda figured my generally yuppie demographic of a customer base wouldn't care for it too much though
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/03/13 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dlennard
Mike took it off after a couple of years when he sold the boat so maybe he will let us know how that went.


I had left a Worrell sticker on the inside hulls on waaaaay too long (from previous owner), and it wasn't until I discovered the magic of MEK did it come off in one easy pass...
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/03/13 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Dlennard
Mike took it off after a couple of years when he sold the boat so maybe he will let us know how that went.


I had left a Worrell sticker on the inside hulls on waaaaay too long (from previous owner), and it wasn't until I discovered the magic of MEK did it come off in one easy pass...


There is definitely a life span for easy removal. The material manufacturer's get pretty serious about communicating that for car wraps (can you image what an entire car wrap left on for too long would be like to remove?).
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
(can you image what an entire car wrap left on for too long would be like to remove?).


Only as much as I can imagine what MEK would do to the underlying paint job smile
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 03:15 PM

Jake, how much does the environment have to do with that? On one side of the spectrum you've got a vehicle that sits outside its whole life a mile from the sun in Florida, the other being in a dark nitrogen filled environment.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Jake, how much does the environment have to do with that? On one side of the spectrum you've got a vehicle that sits outside its whole life a mile from the sun in Florida, the other being in a dark nitrogen filled environment.


The life rating on them takes the worst case into account. Keeping it out of the sun, or indoors, etc. will extend that.
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 06:24 PM

The same guy that installed my hull wrap removed it. Cost $150 and took him less than 2 hours. He used a heat gun and it pulled right off.

For lettering, sponsor decals, stripes, etc - use a 3M Stripe Off Wheel. I used it on my a-cat to remove a regatta decals, etc that would not come off. It did not scuff, mar, or scratch the gelcoat.


Posted By: bacho

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 07:31 PM

Does that wheel remove the vinyl as well or just the adhesive?how long does it last?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 07:43 PM

I've got one of those wheels (somewhere...or, come to think of it, I might have loaned it to someone who never returned it). It only works on fresh graphics. It won't work on crusty stuff. It does also remove the adhesive but you will still need to use a light solvent and a little elbow grease in the knooks.
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/08/13 07:55 PM

It took off the vinyl and adhesive for me. I wiped it with alcohol afterwards to clean up any spots I missed.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 11:33 AM

So really we are looking at side hull protection? I'd say on an Infusion Mk. 1 that is important. Not sure about the Mk. 2 boats, hopefully they fixed the minor gelcoat chipping issues of the Mk. 1. For those with other boats we're really looking at sponsorship dollars.

This still doesn't help Tad with his problems. Option are to grind out the gelcoat and redo, only to likely redo again in a few years, or move to paint, or move to a new boat. I like the pain idea but I'm not a pro and the coloring issue seems like a concern.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
So really we are looking at side hull protection? I'd say on an Infusion Mk. 1 that is important. Not sure about the Mk. 2 boats, hopefully they fixed the minor gelcoat chipping issues of the Mk. 1. For those with other boats we're really looking at sponsorship dollars.

This still doesn't help Tad with his problems. Option are to grind out the gelcoat and redo, only to likely redo again in a few years, or move to paint, or move to a new boat. I like the pain idea but I'm not a pro and the coloring issue seems like a concern.


Tad's problems are being remedied this week with a bottle of rubbing compound, a bottle of wax, and a 10" random orbit buffer.

Now if I can get a day without it raining - that would be ideal.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 01:17 PM

you need a genuine "polisher" and not one of those random orbit buffers to accomplish anything. The buffer is decent for putting on wax and avoiding some swirls - but they typically don't have enough oomph to cut gelcoat (or paint).
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 01:26 PM

I've got a trip to harbor freight planned. They have a 7" polisher on sale for like $30 that has my name written on it.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 01:48 PM

I bought a Makita a few years ago, it was a little pricey but seemed to be well worth it compared to the HF stuff.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
I bought a Makita a few years ago, it was a little pricey but seemed to be well worth it compared to the HF stuff.


HF stuff is good enough to use infrequently. I'll use this thing maybe twice a year and the rest of the time it will spend its life in a shed. Even if it does die, I can buy 4 of them before I get to the price of a makita.
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by bacho
I bought a Makita a few years ago, it was a little pricey but seemed to be well worth it compared to the HF stuff.


HF stuff is good enough to use infrequently. I'll use this thing maybe twice a year and the rest of the time it will spend its life in a shed. Even if it does die, I can buy 4 of them before I get to the price of a makita.


I've got a Milwaukee Polisher , love it. I rely on tools every single day, I never once have regretted buying the best I can. I do prefer the Wizard brand foam polishing pads over the 3M brand ones though, and I'm a huge fan of 3M products. The Wizard ones seem to last longer. I still stick it to a 3M head though.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/09/13 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by bacho
I bought a Makita a few years ago, it was a little pricey but seemed to be well worth it compared to the HF stuff.


HF stuff is good enough to use infrequently. I'll use this thing maybe twice a year and the rest of the time it will spend its life in a shed. Even if it does die, I can buy 4 of them before I get to the price of a makita.


If you do go cheap ,make sure the polisher is balanced so as not to dig and wobble. I bought a Blue point/Snap-on polisher off of E-bay after killing a few cheaper (even Black &Decker) ones. I like the 3M wool pads( Haven't tried the ones Karl mentioned though) and the 3M restorer and polish. It's such a miserable job I feel spending a little more on quality tools to make it expedient and top quality at the same time is worth it.
One thing people seem to fail to realize is paint goes bad just like gel-coat. The high end paints seem to advertise 5-7 years before a re-coat.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/10/13 10:27 PM

I put the ole bitch in the garage today and getting her taped off to grind off all of the non-skid.

After I'm done with that, I'll tackle the refinishing project. Here's what I'm dealing with:

Old scar repair. When the white was sprayed on it was just too transparent or just not built up enough.
[Linked Image]

Yellow side repair. This was gelcoat that never fully kicked. It also happens to be the spot where I tagged the lowered tailgate of Jake's truck with the boat while trailering down at Columbia sailing club. Last time I tried to do anything with this spot, it just got tacky and sticky like I had just pulled off a decal there. I think the only way I'm going to fix that is with a big decal... Jake???

[Linked Image]

Then the gelcoat flaking. Just need to sand it down I think so it stops then properly wet sand, compound and polish.

[Linked Image]

Boat is going up for sale this winter likely so I need to get her looking respectable at least.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/10/13 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
I put the ole bitch in the garage today and getting her taped off to grind off all of the non-skid.

After I'm done with that, I'll tackle the refinishing project. Here's what I'm dealing with:

Old scar repair. When the white was sprayed on it was just too transparent or just not built up enough.
[Linked Image]

Yellow side repair. This was gelcoat that never fully kicked. It also happens to be the spot where I tagged the lowered tailgate of Jake's truck with the boat while trailering down at Columbia sailing club. Last time I tried to do anything with this spot, it just got tacky and sticky like I had just pulled off a decal there. I think the only way I'm going to fix that is with a big decal... Jake???

[Linked Image]

Then the gelcoat flaking. Just need to sand it down I think so it stops then properly wet sand, compound and polish.

[Linked Image]

Boat is going up for sale this winter likely so I need to get her looking respectable at least.


Interesting...the white bow repair where it flaked off - that was gelcoat with duratec (I did this part) but it looks like it's back too far and on shiny gelcoat. This is probably why it's flaking off....in my defense, I hadn't anticipated how transparent the duratec would make the gelcoat and I ended up having to put much more on and feather it back further than I intended to blend in the thickness...but now I know. Thanks for the pics.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 12:35 AM

Don't worry Jake - I'm not picking nits with you whatsoever or trying to call you out. You did me such a solid favor on that repair that I couldn't ever hope to repay you. You still cutting hull vinyl? I might need to cover up these scabs with something more easy to apply than paint or gelcoat. As far as I can see it, the ONLY way that I'm going to ever get a like new finish on this thing is if I either paint the whole damn thing (adding more weight) or grind every bit of gelcoat off the thing and respray it - and given the revelations you made earlier in the thread about gelcoat not being meant as a paint, I think that I'm pretty screwed.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Don't worry Jake - I'm not picking nits with you whatsoever or trying to call you out. You did me such a solid favor on that repair that I couldn't ever hope to repay you. You still cutting hull vinyl? I might need to cover up these scabs with something more easy to apply than paint or gelcoat. As far as I can see it, the ONLY way that I'm going to ever get a like new finish on this thing is if I either paint the whole damn thing (adding more weight) or grind every bit of gelcoat off the thing and respray it - and given the revelations you made earlier in the thread about gelcoat not being meant as a paint, I think that I'm pretty screwed.


no offense taken...I learn from every project.

I honestly think you are over thinking this. Just removing the mildew might make a pretty solid improvement. ;-)

It seems that the duratec repair (although clearly chipped but not a fault of the duratec) is still pretty glossy...is that the case?

Decals are not a problem...our graphics shop has improved and grown and our newly created 900 sqft is getting small already.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jake

no offense taken...I learn from every project.

I honestly think you are over thinking this. Just removing the mildew might make a pretty solid improvement. ;-)

It seems that the duratec repair (although clearly chipped but not a fault of the duratec) is still pretty glossy...is that the case?

Decals are not a problem...our graphics shop has improved and grown and our newly created 900 sqft is getting small already.


I may be overthinking it - but I caught a lot of friendly jabs at Sizzler about my boat looking like sh*t so I decided that I shall once again, for the third year in a row, try to polish and wax the thing. Those blemishes aren't going anywhere unless I completely refinish the boat or cover them up with some swanky graphics :P Like I said I'll be selling the boat this winter so I'm not going to be dumping a whole lot of cash into it now.

The duratec spot actually mildewed a bit more than the rest of the boat - its not glossy anymore but then again the tarp that covers the boat doesn't quite make it all the way out to the ends of the bows so its pretty much uncovered in the floridian aun all the time.

Is that a picture of the "new" garage-mahal? Thats pretty boss.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 01:17 PM

going to get another cat or take a break from ownership?
Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Jake

no offense taken...I learn from every project.

I honestly think you are over thinking this. Just removing the mildew might make a pretty solid improvement. ;-)

It seems that the duratec repair (although clearly chipped but not a fault of the duratec) is still pretty glossy...is that the case?

Decals are not a problem...our graphics shop has improved and grown and our newly created 900 sqft is getting small already.


I may be overthinking it - but I caught a lot of friendly jabs at Sizzler about my boat looking like sh*t so I decided that I shall once again, for the third year in a row, try to polish and wax the thing. Those blemishes aren't going anywhere unless I completely refinish the boat or cover them up with some swanky graphics :P Like I said I'll be selling the boat this winter so I'm not going to be dumping a whole lot of cash into it now.

The duratec spot actually mildewed a bit more than the rest of the boat - its not glossy anymore but then again the tarp that covers the boat doesn't quite make it all the way out to the ends of the bows so its pretty much uncovered in the floridian aun all the time.

Is that a picture of the "new" garage-mahal? Thats pretty boss.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by MN3
going to get another cat or take a break from ownership?


Probably take a break. The wife and I will have to move this time next year - and so far the only places that she wants to apply for fellowship to are landlocked mountainous areas. Thankfully it will only be for one year that we have to live in such dreadful conditions. Then after that I'll get back in. Right now Wilmington NC is where we're thinking of ending up. Wife already has stamped her approval on the purchase of a new boat when she's done with fellowship - but she's talking something bigger than a beach cat.

We'll see at this point.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 01:35 PM

Haha (dreadful)
Gotcha, well if (when) you get depressed and need to sail. drive over to dunedin and hop on

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by MN3
going to get another cat or take a break from ownership?

landlocked mountainous areas. Thankfully it will only be for one year that we have to live in such dreadful conditions.
Posted By: catman

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Undecided
I put the ole bitch in the garage today and getting her taped off to grind off all of the non-skid.

After I'm done with that, I'll tackle the refinishing project. Here's what I'm dealing with:

Old scar repair. When the white was sprayed on it was just too transparent or just not built up enough.
[Linked Image]

Yellow side repair. This was gel coat that never fully kicked. It also happens to be the spot where I tagged the lowered tailgate of Jake's truck with the boat while trailering down at Columbia sailing club. Last time I tried to do anything with this spot, it just got tacky and sticky like I had just pulled off a decal there. I think the only way I'm going to fix that is with a big decal... Jake???

[Linked Image]

Then the gel coat flaking. Just need to sand it down I think so it stops then properly wet sand, compound and polish.

[Linked Image]

Boat is going up for sale this winter likely so I need to get her looking respectable at least.


Interesting...the white bow repair where it flaked off - that was gel coat with duratec (I did this part) but it looks like it's back too far and on shiny gelcoat. This is probably why it's flaking off....in my defense, I hadn't anticipated how transparent the duratec would make the gelcoat and I ended up having to put much more on and feather it back further than I intended to blend in the thickness...but now I know. Thanks for the pics.


My guess from the pic is the flaking started around the tang and then spread. When you have a break in the surface like that tang hole offers you give the elements a way in. Given that area flexes a lot it also helps loosen the bond of the new stuff. One thing to do in the future is take a razor knife and dig around the tang to clean it out and if any rust is present use some rust remover on the tang to clean it off. After the repair you can use a little 5200 to seal.

Another thing about spot repairs is when you blend them in and sand, the blend edge is very thin. This is another weakness of the surface that will degrade faster allowing the elements to get behind the repair.

Gel coats and paints have a minimum thickness required to be durable. I think Gel is around 15 mil. paint 4-5 mil.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Jake

no offense taken...I learn from every project.

I honestly think you are over thinking this. Just removing the mildew might make a pretty solid improvement. ;-)

It seems that the duratec repair (although clearly chipped but not a fault of the duratec) is still pretty glossy...is that the case?

Decals are not a problem...our graphics shop has improved and grown and our newly created 900 sqft is getting small already.


I may be overthinking it - but I caught a lot of friendly jabs at Sizzler about my boat looking like sh*t so I decided that I shall once again, for the third year in a row, try to polish and wax the thing. Those blemishes aren't going anywhere unless I completely refinish the boat or cover them up with some swanky graphics :P Like I said I'll be selling the boat this winter so I'm not going to be dumping a whole lot of cash into it now.

The duratec spot actually mildewed a bit more than the rest of the boat - its not glossy anymore but then again the tarp that covers the boat doesn't quite make it all the way out to the ends of the bows so its pretty much uncovered in the floridian aun all the time.

Is that a picture of the "new" garage-mahal? Thats pretty boss.


Yes...that's the 2nd story - the office of Green Room Graphics. The garage downstairs is mostly done and getting close to finally having it's tile floor. Here's the downstairs (pictures are crummy). Garage was sized so a Nacra 20, complete with mast, would fit inside on trailer with no shuffling. I've got a back garage door that opens to the back yard so I can pull straight through. Turns out that made for really incredible breeze through the garage on nice days and sanding dust exit with both doors open and a big fan moving the air through from one end and out the other.

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Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 07/11/13 04:15 PM

Jealous.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/04/13 01:22 AM

Gotta thank whoever it was at Sizzler that said "Jesus Tad your boat looks like crap!" I'm pretty sure it was Ding or Karl but whoever it was, thanks - you shamed me into putting work into it.

Can't remember the last time I could see my reflection in the hull.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Pitty I couldn't have it done in time for Gilligans frown
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 12:47 PM

What product did you use to detail your cat? (wax, newglass, polyshmeer, etc)
Originally Posted by Undecided
Gotta thank whoever it was at Sizzler that said "Jesus Tad your boat looks like crap!" I'm pretty sure it was Ding or Karl but whoever it was, thanks - you shamed me into putting work into it.

Can't remember the last time I could see my reflection in the hull.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Pitty I couldn't have it done in time for Gilligans frown
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 12:53 PM

Acetone baths after each step except between 6 and 7.

1) Buzzbox @ 320grit
2) Longboard sand @ 400
3) Wetsand @ 600
4) Wetsand @ 800
5) Wetsand @ 1500
6) Meguire's compound and polish with a 7" DA
7) Meguire's Marine Wax with 10" orbital buffer
8) Beer.
Posted By: Timbo

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 12:57 PM

9)More Beer!
10)I need Another BEER!!

Nice Job!

Can I send you my boat, I'll fill the toy box with...BEER!

(and good beer too, Sierra Nevada Torpedo, not Bud Light!)
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 12:59 PM

it seems i have been doing this backwards (beer first) and it severely effects the outcome.
Originally Posted by Undecided
Acetone baths after each step except between 6 and 7.

1) Buzzbox @ 320grit
2) Longboard sand @ 400
3) Wetsand @ 600
4) Wetsand @ 800
5) Wetsand @ 1500
6) Meguire's compound and polish with a 7" DA
7) Meguire's Marine Wax with 10" orbital buffer
8) Beer.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 02:12 PM

Looks really good Tad!

Is that EVA decking grip on the hull?
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 02:39 PM

Its something that Matt MacDonald sold me. He puts it on his boats that come out of his shop and its really nice, grippy material. Not sure what it is exactly but he was kind enough to measure my boat for it and have the pieces cut from patterns. Really have to thank him for it. Once I declutter the tramp from all the tools on it, I'll take a better pic but here's what the deck pieces look like:

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Posted By: samc99us

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 02:48 PM

Yep it's the 3mm EVA decking grip, Matt sent me a roll as well but I'm doing the slicing myself.

Did you remove the stock Nacra grippy gelocoat before you put on the EVA? That's what is putting me off most about the project, the need to sand all that out first frown
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 08/05/13 02:53 PM

Yes... that took a bit of time. I used 40 and 60 grit paper on the DA and buzzbox to get that crap smooth. It took forever but its worth it.
Posted By: Sloansailing

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 09/18/13 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by Sloansailing
Yes that is the stuff. Like Rick I've done lots of boat bottoms with the stuff, as well as the rudders and boards on my Tiger. Always been very happy with the result. Definitely spray it on, its not worth it to roll it. Apply lots of thin coats within the re-coat timeframe. Then as Rick says wet sand it AS SOON as you can. It gets hard as a rock after full cure and if you wait too long it will take FOREVER to sand it down to a smooth finish. Try using an air powered jitterbug sander for the first couple of wet sanding runs with 220-400 grit, that will save you a lot of time hand sanding when you move to 600 and up.

For repairs just prep it and spray as you would gelcoat, then wet sand and polish.

Sam99 get in touch with Bobby Muller at Muller Marine in Annapolis if you want someone to do it for you. You won't be disappointed. Tell him I sent you smile


Bah

Only available in white frown


Pigment


unpredictable results.


Just a quick follow up to this... I just painted the bottom of a 27' race boat with VC Performance Epoxy, and thought it a good time to do a test with pigment. Used System 3 Epoxy Pigment in black to get a nice "gunmetal gray" color, rolled onto a test panel, and it came out great. Application and drying were exactly as expected. Everything went just the same as the base white color.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 09/30/13 06:27 PM

Finally finished up with the refinishing project. The port hull needed a lot more work. I had to go:

220 dry
400 dry
600 dry
800 wet
1500 wet
compound
polish
wax

I still have some bad gelcoat on the bottom of this hull. Next project is a pseudo-bottom job. No new gelcoat but definitely a sanding and refinishing.

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Posted By: Jake

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 09/30/13 06:55 PM

wow...that looks awesome. Well done, sir.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 09/30/13 07:48 PM

Thanks Jake! smile

I can brush my teeth in the reflection... lovin it.
Posted By: wyatt

Re: Cat Refinishing--What's your take? - 10/01/13 10:07 PM

I wouldn't paint it; did you ever try wet sanding it with a 800 first, then a 1000? Then use a fibreglass cleaner and wax. Collonite makes a great product and you don't need much at all.
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