proud day for American capitalism

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/10/government-shutdown-wic_n_4073146.html

Gettin' tough with the dead beats! Don't it make you proud?

yeah, there was a bit of a rukus about closing all the before- and after-care programs for schoolkids. Some of the program funding ended Sept 30 and hasn't been renewed because of the shutdown

The big concerns were:
- some kids will no longer get their reduced price breakfast/lunch
- some parents won't be able to find alternative arrangements for their kids on short notice (so they will have to take time off work)
- the program administrators are afraid some kids will be left at home alone OR just wander about getting in trouble.

Keep an eye on your hubcaps

As a Republican I'd like to remind everyone that Lincoln solved some of his financial problems by printing and issuing Greenbacks. BHO should do the same, that would be true bipartisanship!

Perhaps these leeches will discover what we've been warning them for so long.

He who giveth can taketh away.

Relying on a bloated, innefficent, good for nothing government (and after the Obamacare debacle thats not even an arguable point anymore) is a recipe for disaster.

You know at the park where they say "Please do not feed the animals - they will become dependent and will not be able to fend for thenselves in the wild."

You think that humans are any different?

There used to be shame and ridicule associated with taking handouts. Now there is none. Its socially accepted. In addition to taking WIC and Foodstamps and disability, welfare recipients have Televisions, cell phones, cable TV, video game consoles.

Its not a safety net anymore. Its an interminable disease that must be rooted out and disposed of.

Leeches? Infants?

Their parents are the leeches - any intelligent person could have realized thats what was meant Pete. You can take your typical liberal twisting and shove it kindly.

Classy Pete. Would you mind telling me why you did this? Perhaps it has to do with the appropriate word for a parasitic organism that feeds off of its host.

Just like welfare recipients do.

I'm sure there are plenty that fit that description. In my neighbor's case (both are paralegals), they used the after-care program for their children because both were working full time (and occasional overtime) and the school day ends at 14:50 local time.

So, now each has to burn PTO to get the kids. When that runs out, either or both parents run the risk of disciplinary action.

I suspect the employer would be benevolent enough to keep these hard working folk employed, but corporations (and governments) don't have "Friends"... they have "interests".

It is not in the company's profit "interest" to have salaried employees not working to their full potential. Especially as these are mid-career folk (worked there over 15 years) who could possibly be replaced by younger single employees they could pay less money to.

holy crap, I'm getting old enough to have empathy? someone get me a drink!

since we're on the topic of leeches, what of the idea about those unemployed being required to perform community service as a condition of unemployment benefits?

What if those unemployed folks have dependents (say a disabled parent, or small children)? How would you address those needs?

Before you label me a bleeding heart, tree-hugging, berkenstock wearing, hemp smoking, handout taking liberal, I'm just tossing this out there for discussion as I have not formed an opinion yet.

one more thing:

The U.S. federal government shutdown, now ending its second week, is affecting the the H-2A guestworker program.


So, this means no workers to plant, cultivate, and harvest our winter food supply.

Which puts growers in a quandary: Do I stop planting/growing my crop because I won't have labor or do I use local labor which may be of questionable legal status?

Even if the H2-A program opened back up today, there is probably 60 days backlog in processing, which sets the growing season back further... IF those guestworkers haven't already found work elsewhere

And let's say this shutdown thing continues for another few weeks... By then we've lost 1/3 of the growing season (at least in FL).

Given our state produces 70% of the nation's winter vegetables, what do you think the price of tomatoes will do? What about peanuts, sweet and silage corn, lettuce?

Save your pennies, folks. Could be an interesting winter

Birkenstocks are over rated, I rarely wear mine.

In this area (Louisiana), they bring in seasonal workers also. BUT the farmers do that. Everything is pre-arranged way in advance. The usually have the same workers from year to year. If they waited to the last minute to take care of getting workers processed... Use locals.

As if on queue.... To many people on the wagon - not enough people pushing it.

GDP:


Federal Spending:


Personal Current Transfer Receipts (PCTR) include all transfer payments to individuals, a category that includes all social welfare programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.


No Pete... its not a proud day for American "Capitalism". Its a sad day for American redistributionism.

Medicaid:


Medicare:


And ... Output per person (in other words, productivity)


Am I the only one that gets viscerally infuriated when looking at these numbers?

Why the hell does my family and I have to support people who would rather sit on their butt and play video games all day? (Medicare excluded - granted)
I know that people have the story where they're waiting in line at the grocery store and the person in front of them sits there and divides their items into two piles... one thats paid for by us, and one that they pay for out of pocket. When I was 14 and working as a bag boy at Harris Teeter, it happened WITH EVERY case where a person was paying with "supplemental assistance". Its a broken system that promotes unproductive behavior. You say that it benefits society to take care of our fellow citizen? I think taking care of them is motivating them to go out and be productive and contribute to society - not financing their decay into serfdom.

To be fair, the trend was (has been up since the 1970's). If you extrapolate the trend from "W" days the numbers would be:

GDP: 10% increase
Federal Spending: 30% increase
PCTR: 100% increase

So, it's still doesn't paint a rosey picture. We're not taking in much more money, continuing to spend more than we have, all the while increasing social programs by 100%

Of course, this is only extrapolated to the current year and doesn't take into account each year since "W" that these have continued to increase; which continues to put a further strain on our debt, jobs and livelyhood.

I know of a case where my buddy wanted to hire a young man (say 18ish). He was going to send him to trade school to be a bike mechanic and then employ him in his shop.

The kid turned down this offer ... because .... he just got approved for food stamps and could live off that.

BTW, he was from a family where 2 (now 3) generations were on gov't aid.

right. these farmers started the H-2A application in June (when the 2012-2013 contract ended). it usually takes an average of 120 days to grant the H-2A to a farmer even if they are using the same employees year after year.

The reason they use the H-2A program in the first palce is:
1) not enough local labor (even at $12+ per hour)
2) growers keep getting SSN "no match" letters. they give the notice to the employee to address the issue (could be an error, etc) and then never see the person again

unfortunately, you can't feasibly put your growing season on hold. you're not growing crops (or they're starting to rot on the plant) to sell, but you have all the same input costs (rent, fertilizer, diesel, etc).

i think we all agree that this sort of thing is where we should focus our efforts, rather than throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater.

questions:
1) how would you modify the system to identify these situations without the threat of discrimination / profiling which gets the ACLU's panties in a wad

2) is there a means to quantify how much of this is actually happening? if it's less than 5% of the total program (which is still probably a couple billion dollasr), is it worth spending a boatload of resources to combat it?

it is nice to see they did put an end to college students collecting SNAP benefits when they're parents are already paying for everything

We would first need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that the country was founded to mint multi-millionaires.

The country is coming to a decision point: which is more important people or profit.

Tell that to 3 generations of my family. My father being a prime example of going from a construction worker - literal ditch digger - to the upper class. He did it by working his butt off. I didn't see my father a lot when I was growing up - just on the weekends. That was because he was at job sites, making sure that the people working for him were doing what they were getting paid for - providing their labor commodity.

This kind of "people or profit" sophistry is literal bullsh!t. A person's only asset to sell to an employer is their labor commodity. Whether that be painting lines on a parking lot, or managing a hedge fund for a bank. The value of that labor commodity is what the market is willing to pay someone to provide it. I care about a person in the sense that we can make a mutually beneficial economic transaction that provides both parties with what they want. Thats how I care for people.

In a welfare state, I'm not getting *ANYTHING* for my forced labor confiscation. How is that fair?

As for the example of the teenage unwilling to work because he was able to go on foodstamps instead...

There's a simple solution to this. YOu can only buy basic necessities with food stamps. You can't use them in restaurants. In fact, you don't even get to use them in stores. You have to show up at a government run building, wait in line for an hour and you're distributed a stipend of fresh fruit, vegetables, frozen meat, starches, dairy, etc. No hamburger helper, no ice cream, no prepared food. The basic food pyramid for you if I'm paying for it. Then you get put on a clock. Take away the perceived value of foodstamps and turn them into truly a barebones safety net instead of an entitlement.

http://www.ksla.com/story/23679489/walmart-shelves-in-springhill-mansfield-cleared-in-ebt-glitch

Posted without comment.

I would hope those cards are useless until the future credits equal the amount withdrawn.

They won't be. That would require both responsibility and accountability. Something that neither our government nor these leeches seem to have.