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Feelers out for Florida 300

Posted By: barbshort

Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 01:46 AM

I posted this on my FB feed and just now got around to posting this here as well. I was chatting with Dennis Greene after Tradewinds was over and I was picking up our charter boats.

He said to spread the word, so I'm doing my part. A few key folks are attempting to pull together the Florida 300 distance cat race this year. Start at The Islander in Islamorada and end at Cocoa Beach. Entry fee will probably be a buck a mile, or $300. Open unless you get 5 of your boats to enter.

Also, anybody who wants to run just the final leg will be allowed to start at the final start and race to Cocoa for a reduced rate.

Watch for more info. Larry Ferber, many of you know him, is a great guy and will be taking a "postcard" poll or some such on it. If enough folks throw their hat in the ring he will help with seed money to get it started this year. Warren Greene is working on contacting small motels.

The start would be the week following Mother's Day in May. Set up on Sunday with a BBQ at The Islander Sunday night, take off in the morning on Monday. The idea is to do the whole thing before the weekend. The first leg will be to Hollywood since no place else to stop. The rest of the legs will be shorter. Shooting for 45 mile leg on last day.

Stay tuned to the various online forums like catsailor.com for more info and a PO Box to send your cards to if you're in.

I've heard from Jake and Velocity on FB. This year is tough because folks have planned their calendars. The organizers understand that, thus the polling to see if it would fly this year, next year, or maybe not at all.

PS - I'm not an organizer, but I do have a loud mouth when it comes to the keyboard.
Posted By: Marya

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 01:51 AM

Glad you posted it, Barb. I just came here, too, to see if was posted yet.
Posted By: Hullflyer1

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 01:23 PM

Have you considered Delray Beach as a stopping point? Approx 1 mile of beach to land on. If interested I can check with Ocean Rescue
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 01:37 PM

This is a terrific idea and we can't wait to participate! This is a great way to hit the proverbial "reset" button on distance catamaran racing on the east coast. Drop many of the restrictions (boats/legs...not necessarily safety), shorten the distances, and see if it can gain some momentum. Make small tweaks from there year after year.

I had been worried that this type of racing might be gone for the long term. However, there's hope watching what the Everglades Challenge has been doing. That event was born out of kayaking but has since opened up to small boats. They have several checkpoints off the ocean that you have to "present your boat" at and check in along the way. You don't have to stay there for any specific period and you can just haul butt until you've either reached the finish line (in Key Largo) or decided you've had enough and need to sleep. A couple of those used to be behind small bridges that limited the size of the boats that could compete in the event (you would also have to drop a mast of any significant size to get under them). You cannot have any outside assistance (including bringing you food or supplies)...but you can stop and walk to a store or restaurant or hotel and keep going or camp along the way.

They continue to ease the restrictions and now none of the checkpoints require you to drop a mast to reach them and the boat limitations are pretty much down to what's practical to launch from the high water mark to the water and what can handle the shallow water you need to cross to reach some of the checkpoints. You also have an option to just go the first leg and be scored for that. The majority of the competitors are in it just for the adventure. Relatively few are in it for the race but both options are completely viable and supported by the event. They have grown to over 100 vessels ready to start this year. 110 or more I believe. This is astonishing and we should take a serious note of their success.

This isn't the only event they run - they run several in Florida, North Carolina, and Chesapeake. In Florida, they alternate years where the 300 mile race is it's own event and the 300 mile race is the start of the the Ultimate 1,000 mile race around Florida (including paddling the St. Mary's and Suwannee Rivers back to the gulf).

I'm taking part in the Everglades 300 this year with Alan Stewart on his self-built trimaran. A few other names you guys know have also raced this event in the past - Livingston, Pierce, Smyth, etc.

I hope these guys pull together the 300 mile race they're talking about - I think it's a great start to get something going again. We don't need to be restrictive with the boats...let everyone participate if they meet some basic skill requirements and follow safety protocols. Make the information about the event well known and easy to find (and early) and the race will grow. Don't change anything until it is either clear that the formula isn't working or the event grows too big. I bet we could get a sustainable event going with the direction these guys are looking. Let it grow from there.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 03:07 PM

I'm definitely interested, but have a few thoughts:

1) The first leg is going to be long, no way around it. I spent Monday driving through the north end of the keys, those mangrove forests aren't real friendly for landing on and access is pretty limited. Honestly, I wouldn't make that run without a spinnaker boat (that can also do 12kts + upwind). On the flip side, I'm a fan of the run what ya bring concept.

2) 80 mile days are fine IMO. With the opening leg being close to 100 miles, that would make the event 3-4 days. If you can schedule it over a weekend, that may make it a lot more feasible for teams who have real jobs. Big might, since the islander is a long haul for anyone outside Florida.

I do like Jakes checkpoint idea. That would enable run what you bring, and the faster boats can make less stops (saving time and money).

Might be worth mentioning that there is a ~100 mile distance race in the works in NJ for the June time frame, and a possibility of a 120 mile non-stop race on the Chesapeake memorial day weekend.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 03:22 PM

Opening the last day to a one day race for another fleet has worked out great for the GT300. It's called "The Dash". It's only about 50 miles and the turn out has been fantastic since it's inception. It's open to 16' and up, spin and non spin. It gives others that don't want the full commitment of the long distance race a taste of it. I believe all the same safety equipment is required but the E-Pirbs. The GT300 starting on a Wednesday (Weigh ins and safety check on Tuesday) and ending on Saturday has worked out great since it gives people the travel day home on Sunday. If you guys get it put together, we may make the run out there and join you. Still sad that the Tybee isn't running.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 03:23 PM

If they did an "Ironman" race, non stop for 300 miles, we'd be there for sure, without a doubt.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
If they did an "Ironman" race, non stop for 300 miles, we'd be there for sure, without a doubt.


Lee,You need to consider the Ches. Bay Race Sam was talking about. 150 miles Down the bay w/ a pile of big boats to use as course markers or slalom cones.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 04:02 PM

I think it's a great idea ,but the majority of the past distance racers have gravitated to F-18 and fill their schedules w/ marks racing. It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that.
For me it will solely depend on work and if it's a slack period ,I'd be in, but that leaves me as a last minute,comittmentless contender for this year.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 04:07 PM

To be clear: I wasn't saying they need to open up the checkpoints to make them stop-n-goes. I was only pointing out what is working for the Watertribe events. Their checkpoints are in very remote locations and there's no chance the various checkpoint facilities could support 20 vessels, let alone 100, and the associated people. It's a different type of event in that regard. You take food and shelter with you so you can take care of yourself in the remoteness. That's not possible or practical for a sizable fleet of catamaran sailors on the east coast of Florida. The fleets in the Watertribe were built out of personalities who kayak and tent camp for recreation so it is natural for their events to be structured that way.

Racing up the east coast of Florida in (mostly) well populated stretches of beach lends itself to structured checkpoints...it might be tough to do it any other way for teams. Imagine not knowing if the conditions will support a 120 mile day? You probably won't be able to find a hotel when you do eventually stop...and you certainly aren't going to be able to pop a tent on the beach or sleep on your trampoline with a reasonable expectation of not getting disturbed or in trouble.

I think structured starts every morning is a good way to go for this event. It makes it easier for the non-experienced to get involved. Keep it simple until the next evolution is obvious. Maybe an all out get to the finish as fast as you can may be an option that draws out a sizable facet of our sailing fleets (I kinda doubt it) but we won't know until we get something started. Above all, make the event about having fun and the seriousness will grow within.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
...It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that....


I wouldn't believe you included Lee in that statement and that's certainly not been my approach.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 04:21 PM

One last point, and then I'll quit for the moment. with regards to the length of the first leg and the boat's "worthiness"; Let the sailors decide if the first leg is too far. If my thing was non-spinnaker boats, that distance wouldn't scare me. If the conditions were really light, finishing at 4am and having to start at 10am might rub some folks the wrong way. Consider this, however: people are doing nearly that same distance on freaking paddle boards in the EC. yeah.. Stand Up Paddle boards.

If it is taking too long that turning around a start the next day after that 1st long leg might cost you entries, maybe they consider a lay day after the first start - or an exceptionally short leg on day 2 with a later start time (15 miles?). Let's brain fart here! For the guys that go fast and wouldn't be happy with a 15 mile day, maybe have a buoy race at the check point of day 2 for bonus points...or send them around Fowey Rock before they can go back north to the next check point. Nothing says everyone in the whole fleet has to sail the same exact course or start at the same time.

Heck, maybe the spin boats have to round a mark off the pier at the 15 mile day 2 check point, return to Hollywood, and sail back while the non spin boats do one leg. It lets everybody get to wave at each other. Throw out the rules, consider everything, try stuff, change it, fix it, improve it.
Posted By: barbshort

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 04:41 PM

I'll definitely be passing all this great feedback along to the organizers. Unfortunately those folks don't follow this forum for some reason.....

Again, I don't know any of the details, but from my casual conversation I believe the notion of avoiding weekend dates was to keep motel costs as low as possible. I'm sure the organizers will consider how weekday vs. weekend will affect attendance.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 04:47 PM

I'm interested. I know Jordonna will not be able to take that week off.

I like the idea of it being open, I also like the idea of the extra/bonus races to add some flexibility.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
...It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that....


I wouldn't believe you included Lee in that statement and that's certainly not been my approach.


Lee wasn't included.
You and Sam ( and a bunch of others) had both told me in the past Nats, etc. were your priority ( time off from work). Posts are in the archives to back that up.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
...It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that....


I wouldn't believe you included Lee in that statement and that's certainly not been my approach.


That's two out of the fleet of ~60 present at Nationals. There are a handful of others that enjoy distance racing, and I'm lucky Jessica likes it, plus has more vacation than me. The reality is we sail at events with the biggest turnout, and highest time on water per dollar spent. That means events like Nat's, Catacup and Worlds often take precedence, though this year might be a little different for us.

I'm eager to see what the format will be and agree with most of Jakes suggestions, keep it interesting and different.

Barb, good point on the hotel costs, in reality vacation time may be a wash with a weekend vs. a week. It's still a solid days worth of driving to get down there from MD, further if you are north. Unfortunately, that likely rules out most of the new england teams unless we leave the trailer in Florida until after the event (unlikely).
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 07:09 PM

Quote
Lee,You need to consider the Ches. Bay Race Sam was talking about. 150 miles Down the bay w/ a pile of big boats to use as course markers or slalom cones.


I remember you mentioning it on the phone the other night. I am interested as long as I can get David to drag the boat out there and I can fly in (which has worked out great when we did the same out to Cali last year for the Land Rover Island Series). BTW, David has started school for his Captain's License now and I'm thinking how great it will be to hand the tiller over to a Professional Captain now. If I can get a harness shaped like a Lazy Boy recliner, I'll have it made.
Posted By: Todd_Sails

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 07:23 PM

This is getting interesting.

The GT300 is a nice race, but I might opt for the long trek to the race course to be in the Atlantic again myself.

And Barb, you could use the GT 300 as a 'how it's done' along with spin rigged boats only for the long event, and the safety equipment, etc.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
Quote
Lee,You need to consider the Ches. Bay Race Sam was talking about. 150 miles Down the bay w/ a pile of big boats to use as course markers or slalom cones.


I remember you mentioning it on the phone the other night. I am interested as long as I can get David to drag the boat out there and I can fly in (which has worked out great when we did the same out to Cali last year for the Land Rover Island Series). BTW, David has started school for his Captain's License now and I'm thinking how great it will be to hand the tiller over to a Professional Captain now. If I can get a harness shaped like a Lazy Boy recliner, I'll have it made.


That's awesome for David.
Make sure you get the back massaging Lazy-boy harness.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
...It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that....


I wouldn't believe you included Lee in that statement and that's certainly not been my approach.


The reality is we sail at events with the biggest turnout, and highest time on water per dollar spent. That means events like Nat's, Catacup and Worlds often take precedence, though this year might be a little different for us.



Sam, Thanks for paraphrasing my post for me.Facts is facts, that's all.I just don't want to see Dennis and Larry thinking they're going to get a ton of participants and be left holding the bag for race costs. Souring them for any future of the race happening again.It's already happened to 2 of my friends (OBX 500) and I don't want to see it happen again.This is factually what has happened since the Tybee went into hiatus and WAS the reason for that decline.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Originally Posted by samc99us
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
...It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that....


I wouldn't believe you included Lee in that statement and that's certainly not been my approach.


The reality is we sail at events with the biggest turnout, and highest time on water per dollar spent. That means events like Nat's, Catacup and Worlds often take precedence, though this year might be a little different for us.



Sam, Thanks for paraphrasing my post for me.Facts is facts, that's all.I just don't want to see Dennis and Larry thinking they're going to get a ton of participants and be left holding the bag for race costs. Souring them for any future of the race happening again.It's already happened to 2 of my friends (OBX 500) and I don't want to see it happen again.This is factually what has happened since the Tybee went into hiatus and WAS the reason for that decline.


I don't want to get too far off course here but if I made that comment it was related to getting to the (shorter) Texas 300. I only missed two Tybee 500's - the first one (because I barely knew how to get a sailboat around a race course) and one in the middle that I ground crewed. What caused you to feel like you needed to start making personal accusations?

And sailors deciding in lieu of buoys wasn't the only reason the Tybee 500 declined...but that's, at the very least, another thread.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 08:54 PM

Jake Give it a rest. Those weren't personal accusations and I'm not going to let you turn this thread into a pissing match as you seem so apt to do with my posts lately. You've made those statements more than once along with other sailors and as I recall they weren't in reference to the GT ,but the Tybee and a possible Worrell comeback.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 09:08 PM

so the real question would be:

Who is willing to cough up about $1200 and up to 5 days of PTO for a three day distance race sometime in late May 2015?

Dates, locations, and details can be worked out once enough people actually commit to the CONCEPT
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 10:03 PM

I would think you would keep it a pure distance race. Run like the Tybee 500 but just 3-4 days instead. We have plenty of buoy races to chose from. I'm not sure I could get it together by May but I'm interested. I'm sure there is plenty of interest out there that are missing the longer runs.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/23/14 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by Team_Cat_Fever
Jake Give it a rest. Those weren't personal accusations and I'm not going to let you turn this thread into a pissing match as you seem so apt to do with my posts lately. You've made those statements more than once along with other sailors and as I recall they weren't in reference to the GT ,but the Tybee and a possible Worrell comeback.


And even if it were true, why does it matter? You called me out on something irrelevant to the subject matter and then act like I'm putting you out by saying it's not correct. I'm just answering that call by explaining that what you are saying of me isn't true - yet you seem compelled to continue droning about it, hit me again with it, and then hypocritically tell me to "give it a rest".

Since my first Tybee 500 I have always had the opinion that if a a Worrell event came back, I would register immediately and find a way to get two weeks off work. I hold that same opinion today. Can you "give it a rest"?

Posted By: jpayers

Distance Events - 01/24/14 03:02 AM

Congratulations Jake on getting a chance to be a watertriber. This race will change your life. I am so glad Alan is getting his trimaran out. When he did the 1000 mile race he and his mother they got a late start, was hit with heavy winds, and spent many days in a row paddling the boat. No good stories of 175+ mile a day runs.

Be aware Alan's most competitive trait is ability to use strategy correctly. Other racers simply do not make correct decisions after rowing and sailing 36 hours straight. Will be watching your progress next month. I love the fact Alan built a tri with daggerboards in the amas. Totally bad butt.


There is a great deal of discussion about distance racing on the forum. After completing a few 100 milers and this year hope to complete the NC Challenge 300 miler. I look at things differently. I embrace "filters". It is hard as hell to sail up wind into a river that narrows to a canal. It goes against normal sailing to race over oyster beds in the dark. Losing your bearings in the dark is scary as hell on the water. But the part I like is it makes you STRONGER. Few of US use the awesome skills we have spent years acquiring on the buoys race course for anything else. The other aspect that I love is the race what you have mentality. Which is starting to give into race what you build. I would never single hand my Isotope offshore in the Worrell 1000 but find it very gratifying to complete a "challenge."

Just remember your getting stronger.

J.P.Ayers
Isotope 186
Holdyourcourse

Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/24/14 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Hill
I would think you would keep it a pure distance race. Run like the Tybee 500 but just 3-4 days instead. We have plenty of buoy races to chose from. I'm not sure I could get it together by May but I'm interested. I'm sure there is plenty of interest out there that are missing the longer runs.


Mike, I suspect your opinion is probably a popular one about having a straight shot up the coast and not some other diversions in between. I'm a little undecided on it now but used to feel that way about that kind of race too. The couple of years where the first leg was a trip south around Fowey Rock and back to Hollywood bothered me on some level....but I'm not sure exactly why.

I believe the Cata Cup (in St. Barth) is the only significant event I recall that features both types of racing. It's popular but the location probably has more to do with the popularity of that event.

Why do you guys think that is? Is it a fundamental thing with a distance race? Is it that you don't like to mix buoys and distance because of some mental difference between the two? Most of us enjoy both types of racing but we don't like mixing the two...why is that?

My dad refers to the Tybee 500 like it was climbing a mountain where you hit a new camp at a new altitude every night...and maybe that sensation has something to do with it.

Posted By: Dlennard

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/24/14 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
[quote=Mike Hill]
I believe the Cata Cup (in St. Barth) is the only significant event I recall that features both types of racing. It's popular but the location probably has more to do with the popularity of that event.


Jake,

Mike and I did the Cata Cup this year and it is a awesome race and location. There was not really any buoy racing just some for a starting line a turning mark. Each race was different and you would get the course at a meeting an hour before each race. One race was around the island and into the coves so the spectators could see us. The courses start at a buoy marked starting line and then to different marks like rock islands, channel markers and buoys placed somewhere. Most the races were around 1 to 2 hours with 1 in the morning then lunch on shore and 1 in the afternoon. Really fun event.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/24/14 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by Jake

My dad refers to the Tybee 500 like it was climbing a mountain where you hit a new camp at a new altitude every night...and maybe that sensation has something to do with it.



Perhaps distance/adventure racing is more about "testing/pushing your limit" than focusing on strategy?

Surely those pitch-black double-trap screaming death reaches down huge swells was something you'd never have in a buoy race?
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/24/14 03:49 PM

Just talked to Dennis Green about the race.Barb Short posted most of this in the OP.It sounds like the plan is open, production and 5 boats makes a class. Four legs with a $300 entry with an effort to keep it affordable (hotels,etc.) where possible for the racers. The magic number he told me was 15 entries. There will be a p.o. box # posted in the future and anyone wanting to commit must send a post card with intent to commit,to that address.
The possibility exists that this race may be expanded in the future to double this distance.
C'mon folks lets make it happen.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/24/14 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Mike Hill
I would think you would keep it a pure distance race. Run like the Tybee 500 but just 3-4 days instead. We have plenty of buoy races to chose from. I'm not sure I could get it together by May but I'm interested. I'm sure there is plenty of interest out there that are missing the longer runs.


Mike, I suspect your opinion is probably a popular one about having a straight shot up the coast and not some other diversions in between. I'm a little undecided on it now but used to feel that way about that kind of race too. The couple of years where the first leg was a trip south around Fowey Rock and back to Hollywood bothered me on some level....but I'm not sure exactly why.

I believe the Cata Cup (in St. Barth) is the only significant event I recall that features both types of racing. It's popular but the location probably has more to do with the popularity of that event.

Why do you guys think that is? Is it a fundamental thing with a distance race? Is it that you don't like to mix buoys and distance because of some mental difference between the two? Most of us enjoy both types of racing but we don't like mixing the two...why is that?

My dad refers to the Tybee 500 like it was climbing a mountain where you hit a new camp at a new altitude every night...and maybe that sensation has something to do with it.



Dave answered about the Catacup. One detail is the island is 15 miles long, you can easily sail around it in under 4 hours. The races are raid style and I believe setup how raids are in France and other parts of Europe.

As to mixing buoys and distance racing, they don't really do it in other fleets (VOR, Class 40 etc.) either. Why? Pretty obvious IMO that the tactics are pretty much completely different between W/L buoys racing and distance racing. Yes, those other classes also have crew and sail issues to contend with, but I know personally when I'm in distance racing mode, the start isn't an issue, and i'm thinking about persistent shifts and net breeze and current. While in buoys racing mode, current is pretty far back in my head, #1 priority is pressure and clear air off the start, #2 priority is what is the 3-5 minute shift and where do we want to be on the course to get that first shift and end up on the favored tack?

Todd, we'd love to be there, and might chance our mind come April but I don't want to disappoint anyone. At this point we're out frown
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/24/14 05:26 PM

Oh, I don't presume I speak for everyone or anyone, but in my conversations with the NE teams, most are looking for something bigger. Some would probably do a Tybee 500, but like Jake most of us are ready to put $$ for a Worrell. Unfortunately, sustaining that is unlikely.

Personally, I'm also more excited about a 120+ mile non-stop race here on the Chesapeake than another 300 mile ocean race. We'll be racing at night, facing significant weather challenges and routing challenges that you normally don't see beam reaching up the coast, and for me this is a larger personal challenge.

Jake, good luck on the EC, you've got a sweet ride and the best teammate one could have.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/25/14 02:14 AM

I will be helping to organize it. I got an email and briefly talked to Warren on the phone earlier this week. I have been meaning to follow up but I have been tied up with the 24 Hours of Daytona.

In a nutshell:
Florida 300, which would start in Islamorada, and make stops in Biscayne Key, Singer Island, Vero Beach, then end in Cocoa Beach. This is about 300 miles and the legs are 55 to 80 miles each. The timing would be May but not include Mothers Day. So the potential days would be to rig up on May 18th and race May 19 -22, wrapping up evey thing on the 22nd including a meal and awards event.

Possible Fleets:
All spinnaker boats with crew of two. Any number of fleets a minimum of 5 per fleet
An open class of spinnaker boats again with crew of at least two.
A minimum length of 17 feet with a possible considertaion of F-16 with crew of 2.

Other considerations:
Try to hold entry fee to $300 plus beginning and ending meals, etc

I have another idea I am running by Warren, Chuck and Larry. I don't want make it public unless they think it is worth pursuing.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/25/14 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
I will be helping to organize it. I got an email and briefly talked to Warren on the phone earlier this week. I have been meaning to follow up but I have been tied up with the 24 Hours of Daytona.

In a nutshell:
Florida 300, which would start in Islamorada, and make stops in Biscayne Key, Singer Island, Vero Beach, then end in Cocoa Beach. This is about 300 miles and the legs are 55 to 80 miles each. The timing would be May but not include Mothers Day. So the potential days would be to rig up on May 18th and race May 19 -22, wrapping up evey thing on the 22nd including a meal and awards event.

Possible Fleets:
All spinnaker boats with crew of two. Any number of fleets a minimum of 5 per fleet
An open class of spinnaker boats again with crew of at least two.
A minimum length of 17 feet with a possible considertaion of F-16 with crew of 2.

Other considerations:
Try to hold entry fee to $300 plus beginning and ending meals, etc

I have another idea I am running by Warren, Chuck and Larry. I don't want make it public unless they think it is worth pursuing.


Singer Island...Really? What a ghetto. Good Gumbo though. wink
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/25/14 05:38 AM

Did you ever make that gumbo you hounded me for the recipe? My wife is making gumbo tomorrow using that same recipe.

Here is a little tour of Singer Island I took with a toy I have been developing:
http://youtu.be/vHRbqyPJO0I
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/25/14 05:59 AM

By the way, the Tybee 500 Jupiter stop is technically on Singer Island. Jupiter Island is the next island North. In Florida, about every three miles laterally is a new town. There is no town of Singer Island but there is a town of Jupiter. Palm Beach Island, Singer Island then Jupiter island.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/25/14 03:38 PM

I did, but it wasn't as good as yours.
There will be a gumbo dinner on that stop, I hope.
I got a couple of quads also,but can't afford the stable stuff so just got an acrobatic one (Armattan ,which I crash alot).Cool stuff.
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:08 PM

So are we talking about a race for 2014 or 2015?

I'm about to start a new job and won't have any vacation time likely, but I'd love to have something to motivate me again to sail.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:09 PM

Team GRG might be able to actually make it this year....put us in the likely column for 2014.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:15 PM

why doesn't everyone just glom on to the EC this year and score it as a sub-division?

Crap, it's already organized, publicized, and energized. All ya'll got to do is show the f up.

Once I figure out some robotic beach trolley (1400 lbs is a little big to push around) for the boat (and a crew) I'd sign up...
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
why doesn't everyone just glom on to the EC this year and score it as a sub-division?

Crap, it's already organized, publicized, and energized. All ya'll got to do is show the f up.

Once I figure out some robotic beach trolley (1400 lbs is a little big to push around) for the boat (and a crew) I'd sign up...


Personally speaking -

I like to sail. Not camp.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
why doesn't everyone just glom on to the EC this year and score it as a sub-division?

Crap, it's already organized, publicized, and energized. All ya'll got to do is show the f up.

Once I figure out some robotic beach trolley (1400 lbs is a little big to push around) for the boat (and a crew) I'd sign up...


Some guys are stepping up to re-invigorate the distance scene and you give 'em an out. C'mon. 2 Different programs.
The EC is awesome, but it's centric to kayakers as that's who started it. Sailboats always seem like also rans, the faster they are, the more this seems to be the case. Given, this is an observer's perspective and I haven't done an EC...yet.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Undecided

Personally speaking -

I like to sail. Not camp.


That's the beauty (as I understand the race)... You only camp if you want to. All you're required to do is check in at various stops. Whether you stay or not is your choice.

Of course, that's the opinion of someone who has the ability to sleep in/on a boat while sailing (or not)....
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 04:50 PM

Sounds like the EC might be a good start to the "iron-man" racing discussed earlier.

It seems though that the rules and area might not be that friendly to modern beach cats.
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 05:27 PM

My only issue with the EC is some of the "safety" requirements.

Camping equipment, reefable sails, etc are not conducive to racing an F18. You need to modify the sails, and add 100lbs of equipment that you are not going to use.

Posted By: dave mosley

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 05:33 PM

Theres a certain enthusiasm here that I havent heard in several years.... smile
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 05:40 PM

I've no interest in dropping my mast and paddling under a bridge, or carrying the extra gear.

However, a Gulf coast raid would be very intriguing. It might be just the thing to motivate me to get the Tiki back in the water.

Has anyone approached Water Tribe about adding a fast catamaran fleet?
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 06:04 PM

We are pretty much past the brainstorming stage and kicking around a lot of ideas including possibly bringing back the Hiram's Haul. One of the ideas we are kicking around is a ramp up. Something:
2014: 300 miler
2015: 500 miler
2016: 1000 miler

Of course everything depends on interest and participation. We are trying to sort something out as quick as we can. Expressing intent/interest here would be helpful in us making a decision
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
why doesn't everyone just glom on to the EC this year and score it as a sub-division?

Crap, it's already organized, publicized, and energized. All ya'll got to do is show the f up.

Once I figure out some robotic beach trolley (1400 lbs is a little big to push around) for the boat (and a crew) I'd sign up...


The EC is a different kind of race on a different kind of course. They've been opening up the restrictions to be more inclusive of multihulls in the last several years and now the only restriction is that you need to be able to launch it from the high water line to the water with no outside assistance and carry whatever launching device you used (if any). However, unlike the east coast of Florida, there's not much population and the places you sail are very remote. You need to have enough gear to be comfortable if something should go wrong.

I've had to buy a ton of gear...I wasn't well stocked in the camping category. Honestly, though - the areas you traverse in this race are so remote that you need to be prepared to take care of yourself for at least 24 hours if you had to. In years past, they had a long list of "required" items that included mosquito nets for your head, x number changes of clothes, sleeping system that met certain requirements, etc. etc. Those have since also been loosened up and changed into recommendations. Read the current rules - they've changed a lot.

With regards to reefing, they're not going to understand our boats in this regard but it's not THAT hard to comply. A couple of extra grommets in the sail to be able to tie the foot and a couple of ring-cable-shackle halyard extensions and you're set. There might actually be a day where you are happy to be able to reduce sail a little.

The organizers of the EC appear to do a nice job of making small tweaks to open the event without changing the flavor of it. If they had gone hog wild and changed everything with emphasis on the nut jobs that try to be first to finish wink , they would probably alienate the crowd that put them on the map to begin with and that wouldn't be cool. This race was founded on being 75% adventure and 25% race. You can run it at your own pace and get no pressure to do otherwise. It's an admirable quality to the race that has pushed them to over 100 entries...kinda hard to argue with the formula.

It really is a different type of race than the Tybee or this 300 miler we're talking about. I think it would be harder for a less skilled sailor to decide to race in the Everglades Challenge as it would to sign up for a 300 or 500 mile run up the east coast of Florida. For a race limited to the small, by comparison, fleet of catamaran sailors in north america, it might be tough to get enough entries for a tougher race like the EC.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
I've no interest in dropping my mast and paddling under a bridge, or carrying the extra gear.

However, a Gulf coast raid would be very intriguing. It might be just the thing to motivate me to get the Tiki back in the water.

Has anyone approached Water Tribe about adding a fast catamaran fleet?


There is no more dropping masts to get under bridges. All checkpoints are accessible with masts up.
Posted By: wildtsail7

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 06:21 PM

Myself and several others had a discussion with Chuck and Larry at the end of Tradewinds about this. Chuck talked about the postcard poll but was not clear on whether it would be for a 500 or what. My impression was it was for the 500. I think there needs to be a clear few options out there that are passed on to Larry rather than all the various ideas that have been proposed here.
I respect Chuck and think he did an amazing job with running the Tybee when he had the appropriate resources in sponsorship. He has said to do it right again he would need serious sponsors. I believe the most important thing that wasn't done in the last Tybee especially was promotion prior to the event. Definitely not like it had been done in earlier Tybees and during the Worrell. Times have changed since then and it should be even easier to promote to the catamaran community through the internet.

As others have said, I can't speak for all the New England guys. But we have discussed this a lot and most of those interested, including myself are up for a 1000, possibly the second 500, or nothing. I think we all have the been there done that feeling with the Tybee, plus it's more expensive and takes more time to get further south to South Florida.
Personally and I think others are of the same atitude that we want to experience and accomplish sailing the later 500 miles.
Our focus definitely seems to be buoy, largely because there is always a guarenteed good sized fleet. If there was a guarenteed sizable fleet (like the 2nd to last Tybee) there would be a lot more incentive. If the fleet was there I believe 4-8 boat would come from New England.

+1 on the sailing, not camping
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 06:30 PM

there was a stock hobie 18 there (with wings) and a mystere 4.3 last year.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[img]http://asnstudios.com/ec/6.jpg[/img]
[img]http://asnstudios.com/ec/7.jpg[/img]
[img]http://asnstudios.com/ec/8.jpg[/img]
[img]http://asnstudios.com/ec/9.jpg[/img]
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 06:39 PM

Larry is in the discussions. A 500 mile race will not happen this year. Too much logistics, too little time.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 07:21 PM

Since most of it is already out there, the other two items we are talking about:
West Palm to Lucaya Beach, Bahamas (80 Miles each way with a 1 day stop)
West Palm to Key West incorporating the Miami Key Largo Race
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 07:28 PM

the bahamas trip sounds cool, but a breakdown 40 miles out with nowhere to stop sounds a bit "challenging"

If you could combine MKL with a Key West race, you'd be all set up for a Cuba run should they ever open that up...

Instead of reinventing the wheel, with the potential size of the beachcat fleet(s) can't you just petition your own class at some of the larger monohull regattas? Don't you sail in the Ft. Laud/Key West race?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 07:29 PM

and for those non-camping sailors, wasn't the original Worrell a non-stop race?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by wildtsail7
I think there needs to be a clear few options out there that are passed on to Larry rather than all the various ideas that have been proposed here...

...But we have discussed this a lot and most of those interested, including myself are up for a 1000, possibly the second 500, or nothing....


So, "We're not coming" in conjunction with "ideas are bad"... Way to contribute! Thanks for playing! wink
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:01 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
and for those non-camping sailors, wasn't the original Worrell a non-stop race?


Not the first running or two but it evolved to that pretty quickly. djup. shaw'nough.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:01 PM

Has anybody checked out the impact of the new coast guard regs on this kind of race?

you might not get landing permits without a CG permit.

They are causing some upset in my part of the world for the upcoming season.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:02 PM

The cold shower that this forum has become didn't take long to get here. grin
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:06 PM

Did you ever consider that by starting with a 300 mile race, it might bring some new people into this longer sailing format that would never consider a 1000 mile race.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:11 PM

sounds like the OX500 that joined the T500
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Did you ever consider that by starting with a 300 mile race, it might bring some new people into this longer sailing format that would never consider a 1000 mile race.


Absolutely. The Texas guys are doing it right too with the optional one leg race for people that want a taste. It would be interesting to see a (neutral and well designed) poll on this topic that could reach outside this forum.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:28 PM

Completely different deal. You had two separate races run by two separate groups. This is the same group rotating distances each year.

I am pulling my boat off the beach to add a third crossbar. It has been on the beach since 2010. My goal is to do a test run to the Bahamas.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:28 PM

While on the worrel subject, I've read that the entry fee for that race was $20,000?!?
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
While on the worrel subject, I've read that the entry fee for that race was $20,000?!?


I don't remember what it was exactly but it was up there at the end. There was to be a cash purse that would pay out so hopefully you got some of your money back at the finish line. Coincidentally, that first year of that structure was the race that never happened - but they had entries.
Posted By: mikekrantz

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:39 PM

I would be all over a 500 mile race starting in Tybee and heading north.

I'm also interested in racing over to the Bahama's.

The other ideas pitched, not so much. But that's just my opinion.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Since most of it is already out there, the other two items we are talking about:
West Palm to Lucaya Beach, Bahamas (80 Miles each way with a 1 day stop)
West Palm to Key West incorporating the Miami Key Largo Race


Craig,

This is a game changer for sure. Very different than a 300 mile dash. Something I'd be interested in participating in.

wildtsail,

It really is a long haul. The OBX500 portion is something I would certainly consider, or a New England 500. Either of these would require someone to get off their a$$ and make it happen. I can certainly see development of this race in parallel to the Florida 300/500, with an eventual meeting in the middle for a 2016 1000 miler.

Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:43 PM

Mike, you and I posted at the same time. +1.
Posted By: wildtsail7

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:45 PM

Anyone want to gather all the options and put them on a formal online poll to see where the interest would be?
I'll make sure it gets out to the NE Fleet.
I would definitely be in for a 500 mile race starting in Tybee as well.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:47 PM

Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming. Seems like some of the veterans are not interested in the shorter distance. Are there any new people that would possibly be interested in a shorter format with ambitions on longer races?
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by bacho
While on the worrel subject, I've read that the entry fee for that race was $20,000?!?


I don't remember what it was exactly but it was up there at the end. There was to be a cash purse that would pay out so hopefully you got some of your money back at the finish line. Coincidentally, that first year of that structure was the race that never happened - but they had entries.


IIRC, that price also included the boat. No need to re-hash the past, but the dream was bringing in Europeans and associated big $$$ sponsorships. Catacup works because of the sponsors. We aren't talking about little guys. Try Air France and the French equivalent of Verizon Wireless. It is also in a warm location at a time of year when it is relatively inexpensive to travel and doesn't conflict with the summer season in most countries with high F18 populations. It is also relatively easy for the participant; lodging is arranged, containers are arranged, ground transportation is arranged and some meals are included. Thus, registration closes in under an hour with all slots filled!!
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
[quote=waterbug_wpb]

With regards to reefing, they're not going to understand our boats in this regard but it's not THAT hard to comply. A couple of extra grommets in the sail to be able to tie the foot and a couple of ring-cable-shackle halyard extensions and you're set. There might actually be a day where you are happy to be able to reduce sail a little.


Jake, this isn't the place for this reply, but warranted a little caution. A guy like you with a good amount of experience, plus capable of fixing things, can certainly jury rig something up. My jury rig did not go so well, and ended with a mildly torn sail that could have turned out a lot worse had I not sought outside for a sail repair kit. Loads on our sails are high and reefing requires proper reinforcement patches. Please discuss with a local sail maker prior to attempting this modification on your boat smile

Or just join Craigs race and avoid the mess smile
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
Originally Posted by Jake
[quote=waterbug_wpb]

With regards to reefing, they're not going to understand our boats in this regard but it's not THAT hard to comply. A couple of extra grommets in the sail to be able to tie the foot and a couple of ring-cable-shackle halyard extensions and you're set. There might actually be a day where you are happy to be able to reduce sail a little.


Jake, this isn't the place for this reply, but warranted a little caution. A guy like you with a good amount of experience, plus capable of fixing things, can certainly jury rig something up. My jury rig did not go so well, and ended with a mildly torn sail that could have turned out a lot worse had I not sought outside for a sail repair kit. Loads on our sails are high and reefing requires proper reinforcement patches. Please discuss with a local sail maker prior to attempting this modification on your boat smile

Or just join Craigs race and avoid the mess smile



rest assured...It's not rocket surgery and it's all well under control. I mean, seriously...if Playstation managed to get a couple of reef points in...
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Thanks for the feedback and keep it coming. Seems like some of the veterans are not interested in the shorter distance. Are there any new people that would possibly be interested in a shorter format with ambitions on longer races?


I'm in the 300 mile camp. I'm also one of those that if time and $$ is tight I'll attend my class championship instead of a distance race.
Posted By: CatInTheHat

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/27/14 09:48 PM

Hi distance threaders:
Nice thread going. Great to see many ideas out there!

A few comments:

1) Jackson and I did the everglades challenge in 2009 after heavy recruitment by Steve and Jamie on the Tybee. We were the only cats (Randy S. had a homebuilt fast tri and actually someone did the one day event in an inflatable cat with a Hobie rig). It is an awesome time and a great race and I hope to do the 1000 sometime. It is NOTHING like the tybee. You see everyone at the start, maybe night 1 if u stop, then u just see logbooks, and a dude at the end with maybe a cooler. It's an isolationist experience through untamed everglades coast. We did have to drop our mast once (and almost put it up on a powerline in the dark on the way back out!) but it wasn't a big deal. The fact that they took that part out is gravy. We never added grommets or reefing capability, didn't recall that as a requirement. Chief (the organizer) is very reasonable, I am sure u could discuss with him if that was the single reason not do do it. I remember almost every minute of the race, it's that cool and unique.

A lot of the people on this board and friends I've made sailing have been thru the Tybee, its a social race, its a family experience, its adventure sailing but within a somewhat controlled environment. Two different animals, EC and Tybee.

Many of us (including me) want a 1000. Obviously there are many ideas floating about. One thing for sure though, the difference between typing and doing is ACTION.

There are five of us willing to start putting action to words this year, and we are hoping to have you all join us. We need to start somewhere. We need to build. If we can pool and invest our sailing time and sailing resources to a three hundred this year, we can come back next year with a 500. Then hopefully a 1000.

Please stay tuned to this site (and others) for an ideally simple announcement and action plan in the next few days. If we can get 15-20 boats, this will happen and the rest will follow.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by samc99us
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by bacho
While on the worrel subject, I've read that the entry fee for that race was $20,000?!?


I don't remember what it was exactly but it was up there at the end. There was to be a cash purse that would pay out so hopefully you got some of your money back at the finish line. Coincidentally, that first year of that structure was the race that never happened - but they had entries.


IIRC, that price also included the boat. No need to re-hash the past, but the dream was bringing in Europeans and associated big $$$ sponsorships. Catacup works because of the sponsors. We aren't talking about little guys. Try Air France and the French equivalent of Verizon Wireless. It is also in a warm location at a time of year when it is relatively inexpensive to travel and doesn't conflict with the summer season in most countries with high F18 populations. It is also relatively easy for the participant; lodging is arranged, containers are arranged, ground transportation is arranged and some meals are included. Thus, registration closes in under an hour with all slots filled!!



Thanks, I didn't get started until the Tybee was done and the Worrel was long gone. I only get to catch a few bits of pieces here and there.


As I am not experienced in distance racing, a 300 mile race sounds like a better starting point than the longer options/suggestions. I have mixed thoughts about the distance itself, it seems a race that might last longer than a week would be a much bigger burden to work and finances. That said, if this was a 500 mile race, I still would be interested.

Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by bacho
While on the worrel subject, I've read that the entry fee for that race was $20,000?!?


I think the 2003 Worrell that never happened was $10k entry fee.I wasn't sold on the 18ht so I did not register. A few on this board did. The previous 4 to that which I did do were $1000.00. Dollar a mile like this and the Tybee.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 03:49 AM

Quote
rest assured...It's not rocket surgery and it's all well under control. I mean, seriously...if Playstation managed to get a couple of reef points in...


http://youtu.be/xVvar1cF-RU

+1...it's not rocket science. No reason to over think things.
Posted By: wildtsail7

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:28 AM

Bacho,
There are several 100 milers out there. If you can do that you can do 500 as long as you're up for the endurance. I can't speak for the 1,000 as I've never done it but I know that 6 days into the Tybee I was ready for more (can't say the same for the first three days).
There is also the GT if you want to do 300.
But more importantly, it's not about the mielage other than endurance and boat preparation. It's about getting out in gnarly conditions which are the worst you can imagine to make sure you can get through them. Surf launches are nice to do ahead of time but I didn't, though I still have to experience some of the surf launches I've seen on video. You figure out how to get through it and eventually figure out how to get through faster.
-Todd
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 01:03 PM

West Palm Beach Sailors: I got a firm commitment from Dick Macdonald on his F18. I have a softer commitment from Matt Derego (Hobie Tiger). He works with the Coast Guard and might not be able to get the time off. I will check with the Delray guys but they don't usually like a lot of distance.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 01:36 PM

I am on the fence and at odds because I will be helping with the race. Ive always wanted to do the Tybee but my boat never fit in the rules. It is looking like my boat won't be excluded from this event.

My boat has been sitting on the beach for the last five years and needs a lot of work. I need new sails, new trampoline and a third crossbar added. My big issue is like most, time and money. Unfortunately I am going to need to spend a lot of time helping to put this race together. That is why, I am thinking of just working toward a test run to the Bahamas. I have a set of dacron sails that are not fast, but will work for a run across the gulf stream.

I know Dick has aspirations of building to the 1000 mile race and I think after doing a 300 miler Matt could be headed that way as well. That is part of the reason I am partial to the 300/500/1000 build up. Getting new blood in the sport is critical. It would be great to have three good distance teams based out of West Palm Beach.
Posted By: TeamChums

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 01:41 PM

Quote
That is why, I am thinking of just working toward a test run to the Bahamas.


I would give my left nut to race over to the Bahama's with some other boats. I'll even bring a chase boat for safety if we could get someone to organize a race no matter how low key it is.

Quote
That is why, I am thinking of just working toward a test run to the Bahamas.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 01:48 PM

I want to really do it with two guys, one boat, no support. I have all the proper emergency gear and my boat will be properly prepped. Picking a good weather window is key and since my boat lives on the beach, that is not the issue.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums


I would give my left nut to race over to the Bahama's with some other boats. I'll even bring a chase boat for safety if we could get someone to organize a race no matter how low key it is.


If I understand correctly, there may be a few trimaran group sails to the bahamas. As these boats are close in DPN to the F18s, maybe "carpooling" with their event could provide some support? I would suspect the start/finish lines may be different if you wanted a LeMans type start but if you're just out to do it, I think Steve Marsh at Finish Line of Treasure Coast has a bead on the when/where ...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
I want to really do it with two guys, one boat, no support.


On one hand, that sounds almost foolish. On the other hand, if the weather is right there is a good bit of traffic between FL and Bahamas.

About August of 2013, a friend of mine had his boat sink right in the middle of the passage (he stepped "up" into his lifeboat) and another boater spotted him about 90 minutes later (he didn't have an EPRIB).

Oh, and don't expect your current insurance to cover a beachcat going offshore, no matter what navigational territory you signed up for. No BI/PD, either. The boats aren't designed for that usage and the underwriters sure as sh*t know it.
Posted By: orphan

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 03:21 PM

One of the main drawback of distance races is the cost and manpower of the support teams. One of the advantages of races like the steeplchase is the you eliminate those costs. It looks like most of the raids that are becomming so popular are also setup so to eliminate those costs. The other thing that seems to attract people is warm water warm weather. We have the florida keys. Run the race in the same time frame that the Tybee was run but start and end in the keys. Maybe 25/35 mile legs. Two legs most days and maybe 3 short legs on one day. Total 5 days. You could run some great courses on the bay side back thru the islands on the Florida bay. Start in Ley Largo end in Key Largo. Both Ocean side and Bay side with a lap around Key West. By having shorter legs and multiple legs each day you keep the racing tighter. Scoring done on low points so you don't have to worry about keeping time.
Posted By: jollyrodgers

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 04:43 PM

On the one hand sailing off shore in a cat that has been sitting on the beach for 5 years sounds sketchy. They use stainless rivets in aluminum all over beach cats. Corrosion can be a problem. Then there is the stitching on the tramp to rot as well.
On the other hand, in the early 80's, when i was manager of the Hobie cat rental at Phil Foster park, The sails were left up one nite by the slackers working that day, and along came a fugitive running from the law. He jumped on one of the H16s and sailed all the way to the Abacos. We got a letter weeks later to come and pick up the boat. The boat wasn't worth it though.

As for a Raid in the Keys. Makes sense, but you would need to pay a crew to set up all those start and finish lines.

Also Mike Worrell sailed the 1000 miles with just the one boat the first time. Later on,i think it took 3-4 days non stop, except for checkpoints, for the 3 man teams to finish the 1000 miles on H16s. They would rotate the third man in at some of the checkpoints, and the turn around took seconds to complete.
Posted By: P.M.

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by TeamChums
Quote
That is why, I am thinking of just working toward a test run to the Bahamas.

I would give my left nut to race over to the Bahama's with some other boats. I'll even bring a chase boat for safety if we could get someone to organize a race no matter how low key it is.

Originally Posted by mikekrantz
I would be all over a 500 mile race starting in Tybee and heading north.

I'm also interested in racing over to the Bahama's.

The other ideas pitched, not so much. But that's just my opinion.

Seems several are interested to do this. I'm in.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:10 PM

yes, and it seems there might be several "camps":

- expedition (checkpoints) style racers
- formatted, multi-day (everyone starts together each day) <500 mile distance racers
- formatted, multi-day >500 mile distance racers
Posted By: ThunderMuffin

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:17 PM

This is the problem with putting this **** on the forum. You get about 1000 different ideas from the sailors, the conversation veers off topic and then someone gets their feelings hurt along the way. Its like ****ing herding cats.

Chuck might have rubbed people the wrong way at times but at least he had the testicular fortitude to say "this is how we're doing it, take it or leave it" and I think in a way, that was probably for the better. I know he asked people for ideas along the way, but it took a single-minded director to get the damn race started.

**** if we used the forums to figure out how we wanted the race to go, we'd start in Islamorada, go around in circles in the Keys for days, sail to Tybee, where the race would start officially, take a stop in the Chesapeake bay, then finish in Maine somewhere. The boats would range from Hobie wave through USA 17 with a crew member requirement of X+2. It would take place over 3 days unless a sea turtle sees his shadow on the morning of the 2nd day and which case it would go to 9.5 days with a provision for a rain delay day.

Larry, I'm interested in your race. I don't know if I can make it this year but I'm definitely interested.

The only idea I'd like to add to this whole mess of a thread is that you name the race "The Flesh Torpedo 300"
Posted By: orphan

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:24 PM

With the legs not being a straight line two people could start and finish each leg. By using a points system you only need to write down the sail numbers as they finish. The finish line only needs to be a line between two points. The boats do not have to finish at the beach. Leg 1 around black water sound thru the cut out around nest key and end at the sailing club on button wood bay. Lunch. Leg two out of the bay to a turning mark somewhere in the Florida bay and end up at the park in Tavennier. The next Day two legs that end in Marathon. Marathon to Key West Bay side. Key West to Marathon Ocean Side. Marathon to the Islander with turning mark running around the lighthouses and back to the shore. Last legs Islander to Jew fish creek thru anglefish. Plan each sail with breaks for lunch.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:32 PM

Back to the original topic, I would make a real effort to give the 300 a go. Maybe the people who actually show up to that even could establish some credibility in their thoughts on what should happen next.
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:46 PM

Where as this thread might seem like a mess, it is good for the brainstorming phase which is where we are at. It is also good to see which ideas draw interest and which ones do not. There are always a lot of tangent that arise but that is a small price to pay for the nuggets taken. Thanks for the input!
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 05:54 PM

What are the politics involved in sailing to the Bahamas? Is a visa needed?

I'd be interested in a "stay in each other's sight flotilla", not a chance I'm going solo.
Posted By: Mike Hill

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 06:19 PM

I'd be interested in doing a 300 mile race. Time and more than that Money would keep me out of a 500 or 1000. I did the Tybee years ago. I enjoyed it but spent a lot of money doing it.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by cyberspeed
Where as this thread might seem like a mess, it is good for the brainstorming phase which is where we are at. It is also good to see which ideas draw interest and which ones do not. There are always a lot of tangent that arise but that is a small price to pay for the nuggets taken. Thanks for the input!


Agreed. I believe there was an earlier post referencing what it takes to actually get a race "approved" by various officials (USCG, municipal marine patrols, other gov't entities, etc).

And to Pete, I believe you do need a full (not cruise ship card) passport but maybe not a visa to Bahamas unless you plan on staying beyond a certain timeframe (or plan on working while there)?
Posted By: cyberspeed

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
What are the politics involved in sailing to the Bahamas? Is a visa needed?


I have a contact in the Bahamas Tourist Commission. He said that if we arrange the race, he can have customs come to us.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 09:37 PM

We pre-cleared customs for the Newport to Bermuda race. I highly recommend doing the same. We will still need passports on the boat, partly so we can return.

I'd definitely be concerned with a 2 day weather window, that will be tough to manage. We could wait a year for the right window! Lots of other details with liability and insurance (blah blah IMO but this is lawyer-centric 21st century america). I highly doubt you could get event insurance for that race, I know my boat insurance runs out 25 miles offshore but I'm skeptical you absolutely cannot get insurance offshore. Will it be worth it $$ wise? Maybe not.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 09:41 PM

If there was flotilla I'd likely do it as a bucket list item and not be inclined to pay anything that wouldn't land me in jail.

What I would pay for is room for my junk (that doesn't sound quite right) on a motor vessel that was following along for safety and convenience. For me to do this it has to be a party!

Sailing across the stream on a beach cat is worthy of a bucket list even if I'm not racing.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 10:25 PM

I would sign up for a race across to the Bahamas and take the chances with getting a decent window.
Posted By: zander

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 10:34 PM

David Strickland an I have discussed participating in whatever Larry and Crew get together. While I haven't discussed the Bahamian run with him. I feel fairly certain that we would be in for that.
I mean, seriously, we will surprise you I drum drinks and Conch fritters are at the finish line..
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/28/14 11:23 PM

I'm pretty sure that my insurance agent would be willing to get me any insurance that I care to pay for.

A Bahamas runs is about 60 miles correct?

Posted By: jollyrodgers

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by orphan
One of the main drawback of distance races is the cost and manpower of the support teams. One of the advantages of races like the steeplchase is the you eliminate those costs. It looks like most of the raids that are becomming so popular are also setup so to eliminate those costs. The other thing that seems to attract people is warm water warm weather. We have the florida keys. Run the race in the same time frame that the Tybee was run but start and end in the keys. Maybe 25/35 mile legs. Two legs most days and maybe 3 short legs on one day. Total 5 days. You could run some great courses on the bay side back thru the islands on the Florida bay. Start in Ley Largo end in Key Largo. Both Ocean side and Bay side with a lap around Key West. By having shorter legs and multiple legs each day you keep the racing tighter. Scoring done on low points so you don't have to worry about keeping time.

Originally Posted by orphan
With the legs not being a straight line two people could start and finish each leg. By using a points system you only need to write down the sail numbers as they finish. The finish line only needs to be a line between two points. The boats do not have to finish at the beach. Leg 1 around black water sound thru the cut out around nest key and end at the sailing club on button wood bay. Lunch. Leg two out of the bay to a turning mark somewhere in the Florida bay and end up at the park in Tavennier. The next Day two legs that end in Marathon. Marathon to Key West Bay side. Key West to Marathon Ocean Side. Marathon to the Islander with turning mark running around the lighthouses and back to the shore. Last legs Islander to Jew fish creek thru anglefish. Plan each sail with breaks for lunch.

well thought out. It surely would be fun.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
I'm skeptical you absolutely cannot get insurance offshore. Will it be worth it $$ wise? Maybe not.


The underwriter looks at the design limits of the beachcat: Coastal only (can't remember the classification)

But yes, I'm guessing if you looked hard enough, someone might be able to write a (very restrictive) policy for a nice chunk of change...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by pgp

Sailing across the stream on a beach cat is worthy of a bucket list even if I'm not racing.


Why not the Tiki and "rent" out some space for others on it?
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 04:52 PM

That's a thought but not a very adventurous one. You have to remember the Tiki design has circumnavigated and done a round trip crossing of the Atlantic in a single season. Plus it's slow.

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthr...all-crosses-Atlantic-both-ways-in-Cookie

http://roryandcookie.blogspot.com/
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 05:58 PM

53 miles due east of Miami
Originally Posted by bacho
I'm pretty sure that my insurance agent would be willing to get me any insurance that I care to pay for.

A Bahamas runs is about 60 miles correct?

Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 06:02 PM

I'm buying a liability policy just for Wetafest, $250.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
I'm buying a liability policy just for Wetafest, $250.


A liability policy for you or for the entire event organization? That's really expensive if it's just for an individual participating in one event.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by MN3
53 miles due east of Miami


and easy to miss in less than optimal weather conditions...

Thank goodness for GPS and lighthouses... But being becalmed in the gulf stream for more than a few hours can add lots of extra sailing distance to get back south to Bimini.

Guess you'd probably need navigation lights, too, in case it gets dark.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 07:45 PM

One boat.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 08:03 PM

You're getting ripped off. $1MM liability and collision coverage in the entire continental united states for my F18 costs about $230/year (and yes, that includes sails).

Waterbug, I know it can be unaffordable to get insurance for going offshore, in any vessel. The solo ocean racers very rarely have full hull coverage, especially the mini guys. But the insurance exists, it's all about how deep your pocket books are and if a total loss on your vessel is recoverable for you.
Posted By: Mlcreek

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 08:11 PM

The biggest thing to look at is the insuring agreement and territories coverage applies. Policies are written on the exposure, and where that exposure would occur. Of course the issues of international waters and foreign governments are a whole other issue.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 08:35 PM

I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.


I would check around. This is one area that US Sailing does offer a reasonable benefit. They usually have an insurance agency as a partner that will help with specific sailing related issues.

I have progressive coverage on my boats and they do cover racing...hopefully I'm not about to get a letter.
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 09:28 PM

I think it matters who answers the phone. I'll call Progressive and pursue it in greater detail.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 09:57 PM

I have state farm, and had my agent check with their underwriter. I'm betting the underwriter is the same, and they do cover racing. Another difference is my boat spends hurricane season out of hurricane territory. Not sure how that affects the rates. YMMV.

What is liability insurance like now for regatta organizers? I recall this being a sticky point for the Tybee 500 and part of the entry fee, plus part of why these races are tough...
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/29/14 11:17 PM

State Farm here covers the C2 for $16k plus 100k liability for about $185yr. Funny thing thing is that liability only on the Hobie 16 was a little more expensive. State Farm covers racing for sail boats.

They seemed mostly concerned about how and where the boat was stored.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.


They explicitly told me they did cover racing, and it's who I'm insured with on the A and F-18 for 4 or 5 years now. I've had other comp. tell me that and change their tune, but since Progressive paid on a mast last year with no question, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.


I would check around. This is one area that US Sailing does offer a reasonable benefit. They usually have an insurance agency as a partner that will help with specific sailing related issues.

I have progressive coverage on my boats and they do cover racing...hopefully I'm not about to get a letter.


US Sailing only covers OD class boats. They wouldn't cover an A class. That's why I went to Progressive.
Posted By: samc99us

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 03:00 AM

U.S Sailing doesn't cover sails. In reality, this is your biggest risk besides catastrophic hull damage while sailing; dumping a rig and shredding the main and jib quickly turns into a $7k+ event. If you don't have insurance on the sails, you're out of pocket $3k+ on the performance side. I will say they (Gowrie) do offer global coverage for <$1000. I forget the fine print, but that might get ya there in the middle of the stream...
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.


Do they realize it's a beachcat? the policy allows racing for sailboats (only). Says right there on the application page online you fill out... You can select to exclude that coverage ..

I suspect their issue is with the "charter" thing, not the racing thing. I know they frown on you chartering your boat out for a fee (most carriers don't like that either... or they charge you more)
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by samc99us
I will say they (Gowrie) do offer global coverage for <$1000. I forget the fine print, but that might get ya there in the middle of the stream...


Please do (I think it's on Chubb "paper"). The navigation TERRITORY may be global, but again, the underwriter will look at what the boat design classification is:

A. OCEAN: Designed for extended voyages where conditions may exceed wind force 8 (Beaufort scale) and significant wave heights of 4 m and above but excluding abnormal conditions, and vessels largely self-sufficient.

B. OFFSHORE: Designed for waves of up to 4m significant height and a wind of Beaufort force 8 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on offshore voyages of sufficient length or on coasts where shelter may not always be immediately available. Such conditions may also be experienced on inland seas of sufficient size for the wave height to be generated.

C. INSHORE: Designed for waves of up to 2m significant height and a typical steady wind force of Beaufort force 6 or less. Such conditions may be encountered on exposed inland waters, and in coastal waters in moderate weather conditions.

D. SHELTERED WATERS: Designed for voyages on sheltered coastal waters, small bays, small lakes, rivers and canals when conditions up to, and including, wind force 4 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 0.3m may be experienced, with occasional waves of 0.5m maximum height, for example from passing vessels.

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 02:54 PM

what the same company covers ... may vary state to state depending on local laws and more probably... profits

i.e. florida may have more racing, and/or more claims compared to other states, and therefore ... sed company won't cover racing in flordida policies but will in another state where it is more profitable to collect the premium, with the lower claim/payout rate

just a guess ... but follow the money

Jay ... any idea if this is correct?
Posted By: pgp

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by pgp
I've had Progressive for years, now they're telling me they don't cover racing.

I haven't bought the policy yet,it is for a new chartered boat.



Do they realize it's a beachcat? the policy allows racing for sailboats (only). Says right there on the application page online you fill out... You can select to exclude that coverage ..

I suspect their issue is with the "charter" thing, not the racing thing. I know they frown on you chartering your boat out for a fee (most carriers don't like that either... or they charge you more)


prolly not.

Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
...

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


so, you've only got about 3 miles between here and the bahamas that your not covered! whistle
Posted By: Mlcreek

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 04:59 PM

Mn3,

Not quite. Insurance companies submit policies largely based on ISO standard forms. ( a normal form or type of policy used across the country) Most big carriers take the standard form and add to it in coverage. This would change the prices. Forms are written for most normal use of the boats. Circumstances as in charter boats can be deemed on coverage for an extra cost. Where you might see a difference in price for the same boat maybe the location and use frequency of the boat. Jay can respond better to rates and configurations.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 05:28 PM

Do you guys have any understanding how these companies view the findings by a PC under the RRS... do they have a policy. Or do they just view the findings of a PC hearing as just more evidence and put aside a black and white decision of a PC and make an independent judgement about their client's liability.... eg 30%.... or 70% liable and that is what they will pay the other guy?

Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
...

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


so, you've only got about 3 miles between here and the bahamas that your not covered! whistle


That's exactly what I was thinking. 3 miles of risk.
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
...

I'm pretty sure beachcats are Category B or less.. And I also believe that limits a Cat B boat to less than 25 miles off the coast?


so, you've only got about 3 miles between here and the bahamas that your not covered! whistle


But you know what happens as soon as you say that.....
Posted By: Pirate

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by bacho
But you know what happens as soon as you say that.....


yep....

the insurance will alter the policy so your now covered an additional 2 miles and charge you 3 times as much

grin


I'll put it out there but is there any reason why you guys cant get a Bahamas company to insure you with say a cover-note or similar, to cover you for the last bit ???

always a way around an issue, just need the right combination of turns to unlock it

wink
Posted By: Jake

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 08:58 PM

Personally, I feel like we're lucky that insurance companies cover what we do. Just name one other sport that "races" where you can buy insurance for your vehicle? The important things for me are that I (and my crew) are geared up to be personally safe. Then, I make every effort to ensure that my boat is up to the task at hand but if it breaks, I consider getting an insurance payout on anything related to the racing as a bonus.

That said, towing it to and from the event - yeah, I put a good deal of importance on having insurance there.
Posted By: Mlcreek

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 09:13 PM

Mark,

As an adjuster, I would want any and all information when considering liability. I want pictures, statements, estimates, hearings, rules, outcomes of hearings, admissions any and all evidence to make a decision. .Yes, the property liability decision can be made in a hurry, and in fact might recommend that each party use their own first party coverage and then the companies and or adjusters can argue the fine points months later. Of concern is also any potential BI claim for serious bodily injury that might result. So yes a PC's decision would certainly be welcomed and reviewed.
Posted By: Mlcreek

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 09:16 PM

Jake,
You can rest assured that the Underwriters sitting in their cubs in the office building have no earthly idea what a screaming reach is or pitch pole. Or races where you are sliding across mud/sand bars hoping not to tear something up. If they trully knew, you can rest assured your coverage would no longer be cheap. Ask one what would happen if you put a small kicker motor on the back?
Posted By: bacho

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/30/14 09:20 PM

I am in no way suggesting that insurance is a replacement for being prepared.
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/31/14 02:55 AM

Thanks Forrest..

That is what I would expect a legit company to do.

If one just looks at situations from the point of view of the RRS.... I believe you are missing the big picture...

(I often get the feeling that people think of their insurance as some sort of magic financial shield which erases your mistakes. (as opposed to a hedge against a liability judgement and then some degree of property protection.)
Posted By: Mlcreek

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/31/14 01:07 PM

Mark,

Not to hi jack the thread, but you are correct in what people really dont know what they get for their $200.00 a year. Sure to replace the plastic and carbon is one thing, but to defend the insured in a BI claim at the tune of 50,000-75,000 dollars through trial is a heck of a deal. Where else can you hire $300.00 a hour attorney for a $200.00 a year retainer.
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/31/14 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Mlcreek
Mark,

but to defend the insured in a BI claim at the tune of 50,000-75,000 dollars through trial is a heck of a deal.


Try putting a kid in a wheelchair for the rest of their life. Easy $1M +

Even an old guy with a concussion can score $500k pretty easily if the driver/owner is the least bit negligence
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 01/31/14 06:51 PM

Since it seems this insurance discussion is wanted by some, how 'bout starting another thread dedicated to it, and leave this one to the upcoming Florida 300 discussion.
Posted By: CatInTheHat

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 02/01/14 12:17 AM

January 31, 2014

Greetings fellow distance cat racers!

As u all may well know, we had a once strong Florida distance racing series, and a proud annual tradition of the Worrell 1000, then the Tybee 500. Unfortunately due to a number of factors (fleet changes, participant changes), we find ourselves with an "aging" fleet of Inter 20s, Nacra 6.0s, and other spin boats without a real class camaraderie, and a very active fleet of f-18's, that holds many of the former fleet, but also many who have thought of, but not yet been inducted to true distance racing. Finally some of our best are "distracted" with the Olympics and other life pursuits. All this has served to weaken the overall Florida distance Racing Fleet.

But we know you are out there and interested! All of us have spoken to many of you, and its seems it is time once again for a mighty distance spin fleet to rise from the sand and surf of yesteryear, to bring our beloved sport back to the forefront.

There are many ideas about, but we would like to keep things simple for now, and to assess TRUE INTEREST.

The proposal being floated is to pursue a 3 to 5 day, 200-300 mile multiday Florida based distance race THIS YEAR, between late April and late May for spinnaker boats 16 feet or larger, with daggerboards and two man crews at ideally no more than 75 miles a day, over 3-5 days. If this goes well, we are certainly further considering distances 500-1000 starting next year, BUT WE MUST GET A FIRST RACE OFF THE GROUND AND SUCCESSFUL AND THIS MEANS YOU SAILING WITH US!!!!!

After much deliberation this is distilled to choices of:

Days: 3 or 5 WILL BE EITHER/OR, NOT BOTH!
Course: Islander to Singer Island (3 day) or to Cocoa Beach (5 day):
Dates: Sunday April 27 (Islander setup) to Wed April 30(3 day) or Friday May 2(5 day).
OR May Sunday May 18 21 or 23.

If you are SERIOUSLY INTERESTED, and this means that short of major unseen circumstance, you will register and show up for said distance race, PLEASE SEND A POSTCARD to the following address with the following information:

Name, address, phone, email, fleet (i.e. boat type, not home fleet smile ) and UP TO FIVE STATEMENTS:

1) Yes I WILL RACE A 3 DAY (Approx 200 mile) Florida Distance Race this year.

2) Yes I WILL RACE A 5 DAY (Approx 300 mile) Florida Distance Race this year.

3) My preferred dates are April or May or Both.

4) Yes I WILL RACE A 500 mile Florida distance race as early as next year.

5) YES I WILL RACE A 1000 mile Florida start distance race as early as next year or the year following.

If you would not race a 300 but would a 1000, just put the statement about a 1000 if you would do all four, write all 4, etc.

The only way those of us below will commit to making this happen is if u send in your cards, and we have enough (ideally 15-20 minimum) committed to the first race, a 3-5 day 200-300 mile distance race. EMAIL THREADS AND PHONE CALLS WILL NOT MAKE THIS HAPPEN. However if u send an email to Warren Green to affirm u sent the postcard that would be great.

Although nothing set in stone, proposed fees are a dollar a mile. ($300 for a 300).

Please send cards to:

Atlantic Coast Endurances Series
C/O Warren Green
18 Spinnaker Point Court
Indian Harbor Beach, Fl. 32937
wggreen08@cfl.rr.com

Fair Winds and and full speed ahead!

Warren Green
Chuck Bargeron
Dennis Green
Craig Van Eaton
Larry Ferber
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 02/07/14 06:48 PM

Just talked to Dennis, sounds like it's a GO!
Posted By: RickWhite

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 02/07/14 10:16 PM

Don't know why we can't get Dennis, Warren, et al to post on this site.., rather than send to me to post. Don't be afraid.., we don't bite. Well! Some Do.
Posted By: F-18 5150

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 02/07/14 10:19 PM

I'm talking to a couple AUS guys with Team Capricorn about this. No commitments yet.
Posted By: I W S Dennis

Re: Feelers out for Florida 300 - 02/08/14 08:07 PM

I'm on now Rick, yes the race is on if we have 10 confirmed, right we have 5 pretty solid confirmations
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