Florida 300 May 19-May 22

The Race will be a distance race, stopping each night at a different location encompassing a distance of approximately 300 Statute miles. There will be 4 legs to the race. The overnight locations are planned and expected to be:

May 18, 2014 - Arrive and setup, Islander Resort, mm82.1, Overseas Highway, Islamorada, FL.
Race Day 1, May 19 – Islamorada, FL to Key Biscayne;
Race Day 2, May 20 – Key Biscayne to Singer Island;
Race Day 3, May 21 – Singer Island to Vero Beach, FL;
Race Day 4, May 22 – Vero Beach FL to Cocoa Beach, FL .
These are currently expected stopping locations which may change slightly based upon detailed planning currently in work. (Negotiations on going with Hotels and Cities)

If this goes well, we are certainly further considering distances 500-1000 starting next year, BUT WE MUST GET A FIRST RACE OFF THE GROUND AND SUCCESSFUL AND THIS MEANS YOU SAILING WITH US!!!!!

The last segment (Vero Beach to Cocoa Beach) will have a separate start for boats with Hobie 16 or faster portsmouth rating. Details to be published soon.

The NOR and Registration form can be found on: www.Florida300.com

Warren Green
Chuck Bargeron
Dennis Green
Craig Van Eaton
Larry Ferber

After recently launching the Florida 300 Facebook page, we already have over 75 "Likes". For the latest updates and rule changes, please "Like" www.Facebook.com/Florida300 or Sign up for the mailing list on the www.Florida300.com.

The Florida 300 cleared a major hurtle yesterday. We needed permission to land the boats on the Key Biscayne beach which is the first leg of the race. Warren Greene met with the Key Biscayne Village Council to request a variance and it was granted unanimously.


www.Florida300.com

Nice work Craig! thanks for the effort!

Dave

Getting close to finalizing the Singer Island stop. The mayor of Palm Beach Shores is a sailing enthusiast and looking forward to the event. A letter has already been drafted and will be presented to the village council on Monday March 17th.

Below is a reconnaissance aerial video I put together with info on the stop. I plan on putting together similar for each stop to help promote the race.
http://youtu.be/wyXojb3Twoo

I think we are past all of the major logistical hurdles but we need entries in. Without entries, all the work we have done is for nothing. The deadline of March 15th is fast approaching and we only have one of the ten official entries needed. We have nine firm verbal commitments but unless those are turned into official entries, the race won't happen.

www.facebook.com/florida300
www.florida300.com

how hard to get the DHS and USCG permits?

Just got this email from Warren Green:
We are fast approaching a do or die for the Florida 300. We have all agreed: There must be 10 boats registered and committed with a deposit of $100 by March 15th or there will be no race. We feel sure of 8 now. There are so many things left to do and we need registrations. Our formal and legal structure is required to get the insurance, and we will not commit to this without sailor commitments. We are ready to go but need registrations. Our new corporation will be “Sail Series promotions Inc”, if no complications. The SI is in preparation, the committee is at work. Our dates are May 19-22, 2014. Our locations are secured. Our web site to get forms and see the NOR is www.florida300.com We start at the Islander resort in the Florida Keys and end in Cocoa Beach.



Warren Green

Developing committee member

We now have 12 teams with deposits in and the race is on!
We will close at 20 teams. Names and teams to be released on florida300.com

Our new corporation will be “Sail Series Promotions Inc”, if no complications. The SI is in preparation, the committee is at work. Our dates are May 19-22, 2014. Our locations are secured. We start at the Islander resort in the Florida Keys and end in Cocoa Beach.

The last leg of the Florida 300 will be deemed the "dogfight" and is a one day Vero to Cocoa Beach 50 mile run, with any 16 ft to 22 ft catamaran that would like to try out a leg of this race. The boats that join in will be sent off earlier, and race to cocoa with the rest of the Florida 300 racers. We have a great area to put in at Vero and pull out in cocoa, and all will be invited to the rib feat dinner in Cocoa that night.

For the latest updates and rule changes, please "Like" www.Facebook.com/Florida300 or Sign up for the mailing list on the www.Florida300.com.

Florida 300 Preliminary Entry List:
Larry Ferber. I-20
Islander Watersports 1, Nacra 6.0
Islander Watersports 2, TBA
Brett Moss, Marstrom 20
Jay Sonnenklar, I-20
Royal Orange, I-20
Terry Greene, I-20
Kirk Newkirk, Nacra 20-C
Todd Hart, AHPC C-2
Charles Tomeo, Nacra F-18
Richard MacDonald, Cirrus R F-18

For the latest updates and rule changes, please "Like" www.Facebook.com/Florida300 or Sign up for the mailing list on the www.Florida300.com.

If any corrections are needed, PM me.

Really glad you guys could pull it off! Sorry I can't make it.
Keep me on the list for a very likely for the 2nd 500 or 1,000 next year if this works out well!

Thanks for making Trevor and I the first photo you see when you go to the site... awesome shot.

Go Fleshrocket!!!

It was a great pic. We look forward to seeing you on the line for next year.

Rick, can you add the Florida 300 to your schedule for distance racing?

Ditto.

And thanks for making my backside the 2nd thing you see :P

Many would argue that its my most endearing feature.

And indeed... go Fleshtorpedo!

I was going through some old Tybee and Worrell videos and noticed a lot of the sailors doing this years Florida 300 were in them. I am going to try to compile stats on how many Tybee 500's and Worrell 1000's the Florida 300 sailors have between them.

If any of this years sailors see this, can you send the info to craig@sailseries.com

Craig,

Any chance we can get a list of who's currently registered?

Best,
Sam

Hey Sam

If you go to the website, its right there on the front :P

Also posted it here yesterday:

Florida 300 Preliminary Entry List:
Larry Ferber. I-20
Islander Watersports 1, Nacra 6.0
Islander Watersports 2, TBA
Brett Moss, Marstrom 20
Jay Sonnenklar, I-20
Royal Orange, I-20
Terry Greene, I-20
Kirk Newkirk, Nacra 20-C
Todd Hart, AHPC C-2 F-18
Charles Tomeo, Nacra F-18
Richard MacDonald, Cirrus R F-18

I'm wondering if the Captain will have his foiling kit on that Nacra 20C by then?

If so... competitors better pray for lots of seagrass :P

Oh, that thought alone gives me an ice cream headache.

Can you imagine? I hope they go fast enough to break the weeds ...but probably not.

Man you know how it can get out there. You'll be hauling butt then all of a sudden everything goes into slow mo.

I can only imagine the pain caused by going from foiling to displacement mode that quickly.

Missed that

Plastic bags wreck havoc on the moths. http://www.int-moth.us/11thhour/

I'll be carrying dozens of grocery bags and releasing them into the wild ( so the fish have something to carry their groceries in) whenever we are in front of them.

You could use the whole ETNZ dumping sails in the way as a strategy. :P

Maybe, Depends on how many spinnakers we're carrying. I've got some old EP ones that would delam in the middle and get both foils at the same time. AAAHHHHH, that's what they were designed for.

Reminds me... I still need to put a check in the mail to Skip for that special job he did on a (IIRC) blue spin back in 2009 :P

That must be a big check, 'cause that was a BUNCH of kites.

p.s. While you're mailing send me my rum. Should be up to about 15 or 16 handles with the interest by now.

Ask the Kiwis.

They had bits and bobbins to hold onto. Someone on a foiling beachcat would do the ultimate peter pan.

I think it would be more like a trebuchet.

Trust me, when the boat digs in and you are on the wire. That's when you do your best Superman imitation...

that may inspire a new rashy...southern superman.

The preliminary hotel list posted. We are still working on Cocoa Beach and I will have a second option for Palm Beach Shores (Singer Island).
www.Florida300.com/hotels

Will the race be posting lat. /lon. for the finishes or will it be like the stupid way Chuck did it a few times and make everyone guess?

I will post some waypoints that will be in close proximity to the finishes. How is that for layer talk?

Jesus Todd,

I know you're a bit behind the times, but there's this new fangled contraption called "Google Earth" that will let you search for the hotel, and if you go and drop a Pin on the beach next to the hotel, it will give you the lat/long.

What ever happened to navigation being a valued skill of seamanship??? Next, you'll be asking for a preprogrammed GPS to be part of the entry fee, and since it came from the OA, you'll want redress when the batteries die...

Mike

Tad... don't take this the wrong way.. but I have to ask... why is it that you've been one of the biggest supporters of a race like this happening and as soon as it's announced you put your boat up for sale?!

man, you guys are tough! It used to be the norm to get the finish line coordinates. It was a source of error for a few teams that didn't do the google earthing correctly in the last couple of years. If the Race committee is visiting each site (I presume that is still the case), it's not that much effort to ping a waypoint on the beach in front of the hotel on a GPS (or phone) and share it.

Fair question indeed.

I put it up for sale because I have to move this coming summer, and proceeds from the boat sale are paying for moving expenses. I'm moving to a place where I don't foresee myself doing too much sailing, and we will only be staying there for only a year likely. Once the wife is done with her fellowship, we want to move to the NC Coast where I'll likely be getting a new boat.

In short, I had decided a long time ago to sell the boat. The timing of it was just bad.

(Plus I hadn't been doing much sailing, and I'm not in any way in physical shape enough to do a race like this with any degree of success whatsoever)

It's really not about the "effort" by the RC, I'm more than happy to give whatever amount of info will help more boats show up and have a good time.

I'm just lamenting a more pure time, when we would do distance races with nothing more than the charts and compasses the OA would "force" us to buy.

It does drive me bonkers to hear stories about boats and coaches (not necessarily in cat classes, BTW) who make a stink at buoy races if the marks aren't in an exact location, on clear weather in broad daylight, etc...

Again, not because of the work for the RC, but for the seamanship and common sense that seems to have disappeared from our sport.

And yes, I am aware that picking out the "right" hotel on some of those beaches is tough, especially in fading/ no sunlight; but again, isn't that part of the race???

Mike

WHAT?? How long have they had this... "Google Earth" thing you speak of??

Your strange and modern ways confuse and frighten me!

how do I get that on my Marconi set?

Dit dot dot dot dit dit dot

Or for you geeks:

...---...

;^)

For you I guess that's fine, all you have to do is look for the boats on the beach and then neglect to pay your bet debts to everyone that beat you. Has anyone even said the finishes are in front of the listed hotels (don't believe they are). So tell me how Google Earth shows you where the RC MIGHT put the finish, I missed that option.



Since when have you ever been in any shape to finish with some degree of success? I missed that too.

Geriatric doc must have cut down on the Wellbutrin eh? Cranky one he is.

As for the first comment you made about the finishes perhaps not being near the hotels... thats very possible but is hasn't been the case for as many T500's as I've been a part of. The only one was Jupiter where we had to land about a half mile down the beach from the hotel. The GPS coordinate to the hotel gave us something close enough to where we could see the finish. I made an assumption based on past experience here Todd. No need to get all cranky about it.

As for me being in shape. For me "any degree of success" has to do with actually finishing without going to the hospital. As you know I've had problems with that in the past. But thats for bringing that up Todd. Really appreciate it buddy.

Me cranky...you know better. All typed with a smile on my face. This isn't the t-500 and you know what they say about assuming...Seriously though some of the hotels listed are not on the beach.I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an RC to give finish coordinates as that's part of the gig. I'm sure they've got it covered.

"As for me being in shape. For me "any degree of success" has to do with actually finishing without going to the hospital. As you know I've had problems with that in the past. But thanks for bringing that up Todd. Really appreciate it buddy."


Hey, ROUND is a shape!

I wish you two would just kiss already and be done with it. You make a cute couple... for a couple of old white guys.

old guys rule

yeah, if you're into being invisible. aarp discounts and early bird specials are the worst consolation prizes EVER! thank goodness the single moms still take my money.

It also doesn't hurt that you hang out in tranny clubs. Those aren't really single moms,Ding.

Tad, If you want to mouth up and raise your hand, don't get all butthurt and play the victim when you get called on.

They are innies I checked. Thanks for looking out for me though.

I've always got your back,bud.

Alright boys, lets take it down a notch.

I took the wife and kids to the Islander Resort/Islander Watersports to do get some promotional video and had a great time.



It was not all work though, we took out one of Islander Watersports rental catamarans and sailed out to the sand bar. Too bad the tide was not low enough to beach the boat. The boat was in great shape and easy enough to sail that my kids did most of the sailing. Now my wife is asking about getting sailing racks for my boat.



If you are doing the race you should come up early to take advantage of all of the facilities. Dennis and his crew at Islander Watersports took great care of us with the water trike, kayaking and sailing.

Let me know if you can't view the images.

Ha! Clearly little bro is trying to issue a skipper directive and big sis is thinking... put that away before I pull it off and feed it to you. Typical skipper and crew dynamic.

I like the mainsheet control with the foot. I'll give away the tiller or the jib sheet to just about anyone, but I always keep the mainsheet close at hand (or foot). Conditions looked pretty tame though.

Takes a huge leap of faith, but the fast boats tend to have the crews trimming the main.

Mike

Given the tone of that thread, I'd be seriously concerned with that last comment

As long as the skipper does exactly as they are told everything is fine and boat goes around the course efficently. It's only when the skipper starts to believe they have it figured out is when the wheels come off.

+1. I'm getting the grommets into some "tiller time" which somewhat keeps them interested.

Can you anchor and/or dock there? One of my evil plans is to cruise there in time for T-winds to watch the shenanigans.

PS - thanks for setting a good example for the kids with your PFD.

Having confidence only means that you don't yet truly understand the situation.

Good Stuff!

https://www.facebook.com/yvan.bourg...4344/775212195831506/?type=1&theater

http://www.catsailingnews.com/2014/02/yvan-bourgnon-round-world-on-20-now-in.html

I was also testing wearing my SPOT unit on my left shoulder. I forgot about it until my sister's friend asked what was blinking on my shoulder. Every transmission was received.
My SPOT Track >>>

The shoulder is the best place because the sailors shoulders always have clear view of the sky and if the skipper is wearing it, it will stay fairly dry. I found a local place that we can rent the SPOT units for about $40/unit for the week.

The Cocoa Beach Hotel info is posted. We also have a second option for Palm Beach Shores which is a little nicer. If we get five rooms, we will get a 25% discount on the rooms.
http://florida300.com/hotels

For the latest updates and rule changes, please "Like" www.Facebook.com/Florida300 or Sign up for the mailing list on the www.Florida300.com.

Thanks Rick!

That's all well and good ,but I've got enough crap on my person already sailing and won't add anything else.More to tangle in tacks and I've had to swim after boats after breaking traps and all that stuff becomes a big problem.SPOT are for entertainment, Epirbs are for life saving, that will be on my person.If SPOTS are supplied I'd put it on the boat somewhere.

Gotta agree with Todd here.

EPIRB on one shoulder, strobe and flashlight on the other.

can it be mounted on the boom?

Livingston had one on the boom once...I think he used a batten to extend the boom and mount the spot to. If memory serves me, I think the batten broke in a capsize or something and the spot was lost. I would be a little careful with the nuclear gybes but it's probably one of the better places for it.

For the Everglades challenge, we strapped the spot to the boom on the tri just in front of the mainsail strop. It seemed to work just fine from there.

what about the top edge of the front beam? I guess the spin might block the sky view occasionally, and it wouldn't work upside down, but I suspect you could build a pretty secure mount on there?

Or build a flush-mount into the center of the inspection port cover?

They're not TOTALLY waterproof...the front beam could be an issue.

perhaps a suggestion for future product development.

but yes, some sort of boom-end mount might make the most sense..

They are waterproof but not firehose proof. One of the best places to put it is to tape it to the top of the rotation limiter. I put mine in a waterproof cellphone bag clipped to my mast diamond wires. If you are using a clear map bag that goes on the tramp, that is another great option.

We had ours on a batten on the boom of the 20 for a couple of tybees. Worked fine. If the jibe is so violent you make it go away the boom is probably gone too, unless you put it on with less than substantial stuff. I think anyone who wants to make me put stuff on my shoulders should get stuck under a tramp with said paraphernalia on and see if they still think it's a good idea. Been down that road and prefer not to go back.

We lost coverage in our tramp bag, that was when we went to the boom.

Gorilla Tape and batten off the boom
If its gone, the boom is gone...

Reservations made. The Best Western in cocoa was like pulling teeth, took 2 hours. The Seaspray and the Best Western both had issues with my id'ed ground crew checking in with my credit card, so if any other racers plan on having their ground crews check in for them, you better prepare for it. the other places were very cool. it's funny those are the same 2 places that took multiple phone calls to get booked also.

It's official we're on the list. Team manager is booking rooms. Prepare to feel the shame of being beaten by team grandpa!

Beaten to the prune juice dispenser at the breakfast bar, maybe.

We have been very busy since our minimum entry was exceeded on March 15th. We now have 13 boats registered with three classes including F-18, I-20 and Open Class. A new logo, the Sailing Instructions, registration form, Dogfight info, tracking info and other items have been posted:
Florida 300 Updates >>>

I couldn't be more happy that this is getting going. If it sees a second iteration, I'll have my motivation to hit the gym again

The Islander Resort rate of $129 for the Florida 300 is only good till April 18, then it goes back to the regular rate of $179. If you plan on staying at the hotel, make sure you make your reservations as soon as possible. The hotel info is below:

The Islander Resort
www.guyharveyoutpostislamorada.com
80001 Overseas Highway
MM 82.1 US-1
Islamorada, FL ‎33036
Telephone: 305 664 2031 / 800753 6002
Use “Florida 300 Catamaran Race”for event rates
Rate: $129 +11% tax



Follow Us:
For the latest updates and rule changes, please "Like" www.Facebook.com/Florida300 or Sign up for the mailing list on the www.Florida300.com.

Remember to book your rooms early, each of the hotels will only hold the discounted rooms for a short while, then the prices will go back to regular price. The islander will only be giving the group price unto 4/18. See the florida300.com website for the hotel list.

Another rules question. Both sailors have to have phones on them? So that's 2 epirbs ,2 phones, 2 flashlights, 2 strobelights and a VHF ? You realize the phones will be ruined at the end, waterproof case or not? Coast Guard prefers VHF over phones also.

Todd is 1000% right about the VHFs.

I will never understand why OAs don't require this, especially for distance races, but certainly for buoy racing in heavy air. And, we shouldn't need the OAs to tell us to do this...

We all know this, but apparently think it could never happen to us:

Regardless of the minimum requirements for any regatta, EACH person on a catamaran should have a fully charged, submersible VHF ON THEIR PERSON.

It only takes nanoseconds to fall off a boat, and very few seconds to be significantly separated from the boat.

If the boat capsizes, there is an excellent chance that the wind will blow it away from you faster than you can swim back to it. Even if you have a partner who can right it solo, your head bobbing in the water can be impossible to see in nasty enough conditions, and whistles are hard to hear.

Mike

We always carry 2 in a pelican case. You can get pretty small ones and tape them to the boom. Phone in a baggie then in the Pelican case. I've yet to have a Pelican case leak even in the tramp pocket.

I just read where it says "on the person". My bad. Get a pimp phone from Walmart.

FYI the new Galaxy S5 is IP67 Water"proof".

It should certainly survive in a dry bag or hard case for additional protection.

Take a brand new $650 phone on me that will, at the very least, get beat up and probably won't work offshore anyway? No thanks. (I can buy 5 VHF radios for what that would cost me!). IP67 is a step in the right direction but it's not much waterproofing (I'm getting one at the end of the month, tho). I really don't see the point in requiring a phone on your person. We normally carry one on the boat in a pelican box in the trampoline pocket...handy if you have to make a left turn and land on a beach somewhere but it's not any good any significant distance off the beach.

I do see the point in carrying a VHF radio on you. A leg pocket is a pretty decent place to put it out of the way.

Hi Todd,
We rushed a bit to get that 15 page document out and knew we would be making some changes/corrections. Only one cell phone and one VHF per boat and neither needs to be carried on person. The primary reason for cell phone is to notify us if you are pulling out of the race or need help along the shore.

Also only ONE Spot may be used instead of EPIRB on person. We want each boat to have someone with access to an EPIRB at all times. Our recomenation is to have one EPIRB per person and one Spot on boat. A few sailors requested this change to keep costs down. They already have the units and feel comfortable using them.

Personally I think the SPOTs are critical because it would allow us to see if a boat is potentially having issues and possibly help dispatch non emergency help whether it be another team that finished or local friends with boats. There is also a rare situation where a sailor could be knocked out and he could still be found.

As far as having a VHF "On Person". It is up to each sailor to carry safety equipment they feel comfortable and safe carrying. All we can do is set minimum requirements that we feel are the best mix in keeping people safe.

While making these decisions Warren met with a retired Coast Guard Commander that he is friends with and below is the commander's reply:



His only question was to verify that the SPOT unit worked via satellite, which it does.

We should have the Sailing Instructions updated by end of the day.

Tape it to the roof of your car and whip through the touchless wash a few times and see how it goes.

Today is the last day to reserve a room at the Islander for the "Race Rates":

The Islander Resort
80001 Overseas Highway
MM 82.1 US-1
Islamorada, FL ‎33036
Telephone: 305 664 2031 / 800753 6002
Use “Florida 300 Catamaran Race”for event rates
Rate: $129 +11% tax
Islander Water Sports will direct Boat locations and trailer positioning

I'm a huge proponent of personal responsibility and love the quote above, but the 15 pages( pretty excessive) of SIs that I read seem to contradict that. I'll read the updated version and reconsider. The more you dictate the more responsibility you assume as the OA. Your race ,your call but I think you are regulating yourself into a fix instead of out of one. I want this race to flourish as much or more than anyone so this isn't being a hater.
Your SPOT comment about letting you see if someone was in trouble will only lead to trouble if you call in the Calvary and someone stopped because they wanted a sandwich. Besides , after all of the races that I've participated in and tried to follow that involved SPOTs I'd surmise that reliability is "SPOTTY" at best. I guess that's how they got their name. I'll trust my life to an EPIRB, if organizers want to publicize the race with SPOTs then that should be their responsibility not mine, financially or otherwise.

Spots are great, but they're tickling with liability issues with some of their promises. They're being sued right now over the Aegean incident (which may or may not make sense). It's a terrific device and has a definite use, but it just doesn't have the direct line/monitoring of emergency help and I would never rely on one as my backup plan (maybe a tertiary level) - it's not intrinsically built for the purpose of safety like an epirb is. That's some government oversight we should all be pleased with.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-fatal-yacht-race-20140403,0,2497242.story#axzz2zHdnbXLA

This is exactly why Kathy veto'd the SPOT option and insisted on the EPIRB. We have carried the SPOT before and she pretty much said the same thing as Todd. For some reason she wants to get me back, go figure.

Until you pay the life insurance renewal, that is...

How do these guidelines compare to EC? I think EC does a good job of reinforcing that they are not going to babysit you (aka "don't call us if you have a problem").

A PWC emergency kit has 3 flares, whistle, and floating marker. Add a dye marker and mirror and it all fits in a leg pocket.

Obviously not good if you're far from shore (where an EPIRB might do far better), other boats, or unconscious, but it's a relatively cheap low-tech backup plan.

The EC does have a long list of required items although they've reduced the personal item list, they do still require that you have basic stuff - a change of non-boat clothes that is to be considered sacrosanct, etc. It is still a pretty extensive list and they do inspections on newcomers. Veterans are typically allowed to self-police and sign off that they have the required gear.

There's not really anything on that list that I don't agree with. The only things required on your person (life vest) is EPIRB (PLB), whistle, and a knife. I happen to agree with these as a minimum. I also carry strobe, flashlight, webbing cutter, fresh water (integrated camelback), a length of high-tech line (20 feet or so) with a carabiner, and a couple of energy bars. Hey, you never know what kind of isolated beach you may wash up on. ;-)

It is a different kind of race though.
http://www.watertribe.com/PDF/MustRead/WaterTribeRequiredEquipment.pdf

what's next on your list Jake? Maybe a trans-Gulf challenge to get to the GT 300?? or the Cuba run?

Nah....probably back to the Florida 300 (or whatever it is) next year.

The SI's are actually 10 pages by the time I reduced the font size from 14 to 12 (standard) and cleaned it up a bit. I even left everything bold for the visually impaired like myself. I think the scope is in line with the GT 300 (13 pages) and the EC 300 (9 pages). I am not really sure which areas you think we should delete.

Anyone that has suggestions or issues with the SI's are welcome to contact Warren (wggreen08@cfl.rr.com)and myself (info@sailseries.com) as Todd has already done. We plan on posting a hopefully "final version" on May 1st. Please let us know before then and cc me so I will be in the loop.



My actual quote was "possibly help dispatch non emergency help" not call the Calvary. I consider SPOT units important to running a long distance event. Even Chuck who hates technology agrees on this. That is why he brought me aboard for tracking the last Tybee 500 and mandated it.

It is very important we know how much time we have to get down and get everything set up in case we have other errands to run. It is also important we know how late the day or night might be. Having boats out at night without having a clue where they are is just silly in this day and age. knowing where they are and how much progress takes a huge load of stress off of us and the ground crews.

The marketing benefits are secondary. I bought my initial Spot unit because of safety not marketing and upgraded because of the additional texting ability in emergency situations. I also own an EPIRB, VHF, and the rest of the safety gear on the list because I sail regularly in the area you are racing in.

Imagine if they had a SPOT unit on the Malaysian Flight. They would at least be able to reduce the search area. As it stands, no one has a clue where the plane is even after all this time. Even with all of the additional safety gear they have. The SPOT units are not perfect but the newer ones are a lot more reliable than the original ones. They can possibly help in a situation where the sailors are unable to dispatch help themselves.

I have cooked gumbo and usually supplied drinks for every Tybee 500 and my wife will be making the gumbo for the Palm Beach Shores leg this year. If you want to show some gratitude, PLEASE rent a SPOT so I will know if I have time to eat lunch before setting up the finish line at the end of each leg. Your ground crew might even like to know where you are and if they can take a break for lunch.

Believe me, I would rather be on my boat racing than on the shore. And if I was working my job instead of spending all the time setting up this event, I would be able to afford the sails I need to go racing.

This makes my point exactly , they are for the benefit of everyone except the racers who are already shouldering all of the financial burden ( hence 10 boats or bust).They aren't reliable enough to count on in an emergency and that's what the racers need them for, other than that they are a headache( mounted in the way, remove every night, put back on in the morning and do the silly button dance to try and get them to work). If the RC wants them so they know how much time they have, then they should find a sponsor to foot the bill for them, not expect us to. Plus it can add an unfair advantage to know where everyone is by talking with your ground crew who is checking tracks.
And we still don't have finish waypoints.

SAILING INSTRUCTION CHANGES:

ADDED:
3.2 General Waypoints
Islamorada: 24°55.125'N; 80°37.77'W
Key Biscayne: 25°41.735'N; 80°9.39'W
Palm Beach Shores: 26°46.736'N; 80°1.881'W
Vero Beach: 27°38.026'N; 80°21.045'W
Cocoa Beach: 28°22.124'N; 80°36.112'W
Note: These waypoints are for general reference only. The actual finish line will be determined when the race committee surveys the finishing area on the day of the race.

CHANGED:
8. Required Safety Equipment
8.1 For Each crew member, attached to person
a. US Coast Guard (USCG) approved PFD personal PFD, worn at all times while racing. All life preservers will be in reasonably new & undamaged condition.

Note: The RC will recognize the country certification of a pfd used by a sailor in a boat of his own competing country. Foreign sailors using US registered vessels must wear USCG approved pfd’s. This is IAW USCG Regulations. Modification of a pfd voids the certification either country.

b. One small Enclosed or folded knife
c. Whistle
d. Waterproof flashlight
e. Personal Safety strobe light
f. One 406 MHz EPIRB. One SPOT Satellite Messenger can be used instead of the EPIRB by one of the sailors but not both. If a SPOT is used it must be in tracking mode, capable of notifying rescue services, your team leader and the RC at 561.371.2663. SPOTs must be demonstrated at inspections and show a positive test. (Optional per individual in Dogfight) *(See Asterisk item below)

Note: 121 & 243MHz EPIRBS are no longer acceptable. Proof of NOAA Registration of 406 MHz EPIRBs must be provided to the race equipment inspector. Each Sailor shall have available to him liquids to sustain himself for the duration of the days sail.

8.2 For Each Boat, secured to boat:
a. Waterproof VHF Radio, (Strongly Recommended for Dogfight, but optional)
b. One Water protected cell phone
c. Marine Grade Compass, attached to boat or a secured handheld for Dogfight.
d. Three Current day/night flares (At least one should be night rated.)
e. Safety line, at least 20’ in length, to be used for towing
f. One throw-able PFD
g. SPOT Satellite Trackers are highly encouraged if not carried by one of the sailors. The SPOT Tracker must be in tracking mode, attached to be visible for satellites, per boat. We will be using www.Kattack.com tracking system for live SPOT tracking. It will be available via www.Florida300.com website with daily replays. We will also have a monitor at the finishing locations each day showing the live tracking for race committee, team members & spectators. *(See Asterisk item below)

* SPOT Tracking is required to be coordinated with Craig Van Eaton (email: info@sailseries.com; phone: 561.371.2663). We will have SPOT’s available to rent at $40 for the trip which must be arranged in advance by contacting Craig Van Eaton.

The updated Sailing Instruction can be found at www.Florida300.com. Anyone that has suggestions or issues with the SI's are welcome to email BOTH Warren (wggreen08@cfl.rr.com)and myself (info@sailseries.com). We plan on posting a "final version" on May 1st.

Thanks Craig.

You could always do like Randy and somehow that Spot never seems to work. But, seriously, the SPOT isn't that big of a deal. The batteries last forever (especially if you get the lithium type). I'm pretty sure you can get through the entire week on one set of batteries if you remember to turn it off at night. Second, who has time to call their ground crew unless they're broken on the beach? Third, if you can't see your competition in a race like this, having "inside" knowledge about where they are isn't going to help you.

Todd, once you and Dalton drop off the horizon behind us you guys will be a distance memory and if I do call Kathy I will only be asking her to fix us a cold beverage. Not to worry I'll have beverages waiting for you guys too when you get in... assuming you get in before my bedtime.

If communications are unlimited (not restricted to emergencies) by the SIs, an excellent case can be made that since everyone has access to the tracker data, it's information freely available to all boats and does not break a rule.

I can think of a few situations where it might help, but if everyone has the same access, it's no big deal.

The other critical use is attracting fans. These big distance races are every bit as important to the image of our sport as the major championships.

Mike

We already had sponsorships pledged and still needed 10 boats. Our entry fee is also lower than the others:
GT 300 $395/$500
EC 300 $790 plus requires SPOT
Florida 300 $300

We are doing things by the book and there are a lot of costs and time involved. We had to get approval from each town, we had to set up a nonprofit to get the reduced insurance rates and I have been working with the "DEP" for the last two week.

The current sponsors/donors, some of which prefer not to be acknowledged deserve race coverage and tracking gives the most bang for the buck.

I am also going to be "Sponsoring" most of the multimedia content by not charging. This includes risking my quadcopter for aerial footage. I want proper race coverage for my time and equipment involvement.

If I am going to work a race like this in the future, I want to know where ALL the boats are. It is just unresponsible not to. Next year the tracking money will be taken out of the sponsorship money before any is allocated for running the race or I will not be involved. We are doing this for you, not for us.

I have wasted enough of my time on this subject and agree we disagree and will not comment further.

Your welcome.

Craig and I talked briefly about some of this too...the tracking page / viewing options for the Spots is pretty crummy. I have a hard time figuring out where exactly people are so I rarely have checked tracker pages. Someone may show back in the fleet when, in reality, their tracker just hasn't updated in 20 minutes. However, I'll be checking in our Florida300'ers this time.

We need a (reliable) mapping program that takes the pings and will extrapolate current position based on the last known speed and direction so you get an (mostly) correct representation of relative position.

That information could be incorrect too especially if something happened to cause it not to transmit like a turtled boat.

We will be renting GEN 2 units which are more reliable then the original ones we used for the Tybee. Hopefully that will improve our tracking results.

We are also going to be using Kattack software which is quicker to update than what we used during the Tybee. Kattack software was designed by sailors for sailors. I have been trying to put out a release about that for the last week but haven't had a chance.

Oh cool!...the Kattack guys seem to have it figured out. I'll be looking forward to that.

Does Kattack do live updating, or are you still pulling it off of each GPS at the end of the day?

CRAW paid for a subscription and most everyone bought GPS's to do it, but the novelty wore off at the club level after a season. Cool, and a good learning tool, but it became one more thing someone had to take care of each day.

Live updating from the SPOTS.

Palm Beach Shores News:
http://www.palmbeachshoresfl.us/index.cfm?fuseaction=events.details&content_id=1194

So you're driving your car, I thought you were sailing. Thanks for the drinks though.

Not readily broadcast. Cell phones don't fall under that category, unless you are the NSA.

OK, so you protest them for talking to their road crew under outside assistance or Rule 2 if that's warranted. In that scenario, the issue isn't the tracking, it's talking to the support team, period.

Mike

Read the SIs. That's legal.

I've met your road crews. Nice folks for certain! But you can talk to them all day long and it wouldn't bother me. Same goes for ours...hell...I once hired a forecaster who was more consistently wrong than if I wet my finger and stuck it in the air. I get the perception - but reality is that talking to people while you are sailing up the coast really doesn't offer much more than a distraction from sailing fast. No computer model is accurate enough to predict the wind that sets up on the small close-to-shore level we race in.

So making excuses ,valid or not, makes breaking the rules OK?
I'm done. You guys know way too much about distance races and rules for me.

signal mirror, if batteries get low on GPS or VHF, good for line of site from chase boat if dismasted, or separated from boat. Helps confirm GPS coordinates. Can be seen for miles.

Just having fun with you but I didn't think we were talking about breaking rules. I thought you said that it was legal in the SI's to talk to your ground crew during the race.

You want to get me fired up, lets talk about really light air sailing at 1am and your competition (with whom you were sailing side by side with before they turned) has their ground crew meet them in the surf 1/4 mile short of the finish line and then run their boat to the finish line beating you by 5 or 10 minutes. The SI's said that your ground crew could meet you in the surf so I was pretty stuck without much to lodge a protest against - in the case there might have actually been a protest committee. I complained to the race committee that it wasn't very sporting and you can just imagine the response I got back. I then presented taking the case to the extreme of a really light air start and suppose a ground crew walked/ran the boat up the coast a couple of miles in the surf. Not much of a conversation piece that was either.

y'all might want to note the Florida 300 SI's are still a little grey on where ground crew can assist a boat on the course side while finishing. The start wording boxes them into a course perpendicular to the surf but the finish does not.

I don't want to turn this into a punching bag session but why do the SI's state that there is no protest committee? It's this kind of stuff that makes us look like amateurs to the sport of sailing. It's not like I'm some protest happy monster (I've filed one in my entire life)...but, still.

Jake,

Just to get you fired up, in such a circumstance, consider protesting under Rule 2. I think you could make a very good argument that such tactics are contrary to the principle of fair sailing. If I were on a jury in such a circumstance, I'd be very sympathetic to a claim under rule 2 or rule 41.

Alternatively, if you don't want to play the sportsmanship card, you could protest under rule 42 "Propulsion". Pulling a boat along the shoreline through the surf is not "using only the wind and water". Sailing instructions may, in stated circumstances, permit other methods of propulsion (such as assistance from shore crew for beaching), provided the boat does not gain a significant advantage in the race. See RRS 42.3(i).

Regards,
Eric

Todd, if it's legal, what is your problem???

Eric, while I agree with you for 99.999% of our regattas, if all the teams are allowed to talk to their road crew, who all have access to the data, there is nothing unfair about it.

Besides, it would be close to impossible to prove without witnesses, and there is no PC for this event.

Mike

Sailing Instructions may change RRS 41 "Outside Help" to permit boats to receive information from shore crew. Exactly what is permissible depends on the wording of the SIs.


Most of the regattas I attend have no standing protest committee. If a protest is filed, Race Committee forms a Protest Committee ad. hoc.

The hardest job Protest Committee has, is figuring out what happened (a.k.a. "finding facts"). Because sailboat racing is not typically umpired, impartial observers are rare. All PC can do is take the available testimony and reconstruct the incident as best it can. That then becomes the "facts found". Applying the rules is the easy part.

Regards,
Eric

After reading the SIs (again), the OA may want to consider clarifying their intent in this regard.

SI 8.3 allows communication with ground crew, but does not modify RRS 41.

SI 11.9 modifies RRS 41, but only for emergencies.

So, what is the intent? Be careful, because this is a genie/bottle thing. It's extremely difficult to enforce a half-rule (i.e. you can talk to someone, but only about certain things), you're better off just taking away any restrictions.

Edit: Eric, they stated that there will be no PC in the SIs. That's quite different than pulling one together as needed. Again, I'm not completely clear on the intent, because they stop short of stating that protests are not allowed...

Mike

One other (should have been obvious) thing: unless the cell phones are restricted to dumb phones, sailors won't need to talk to anyone ashore to see the tracking data, they can just use the phone to access the website.

Everyone's got a phone, everyone can get to the data, where's the crime?

Mike

Assuming you can get a signal.

We actually toyed with this idea during the Everglades challenge and had the gear to view the tracking map. However, it was pretty useless when the event tracking map crashed. But, then again, knowing where our competition was really wouldn't have changed anything - we're all going in the same direction to the same points and it would have mostly just been trivia. Its not like we would have changed course based on any of the information we could learn. With the length of the Everglades challenge, it could possibly affect when and how long we shut down for rest and knowing the weather forecast after two days is a benefit to your course selection. However, that's not a factor in a race like the Florida 300 where you get to reboot every evening. I still think having access to any of that information in a race like this is more of a distraction and offers no real benefit. What are you going to do? Go faster?

A Sailing Instruction that changes (i.e. conflicts with) a racing rule without conforming to RRS 86.1(b) is not valid. To change RRS 41, the SI must "refer specifically to it and state the change".


The genie is already out of the bottle. It's perfectly acceptable to call your spouse while racing and make dinner plans. Rule 41, however, prohibits calling someone stationed up the course and discussing the wind conditions.


RRS 85 states "The organizing authority, race committee, and protest committee shall be governed by the rules in the conduct and judging of races". RRS 63.1 states "the protest committee shall hear all protests...". If an organizing authority refuses to form a protest committee, or if a protest committee refuses to hear a protest, then they are in breach of RRS 85, and are subject to appeal.

In theory, SI's could change rules 60-68 to remove a boat's right to protest and eliminate hearings, but that would be sowing disaster. The OA might as well not follow the Racing Rules of Sailing at all.

I hope that helps,
Eric

He didn't work for SA did he? The last year we did it, one of our ground crew kept telling us each day what to expect and was not even close! I asked her where she was getting her info and all I can say was his initials were MM. I politely said we didn't need any info from that source.

Using a smart phone to browse a public website is permitted under RRS 41(c), "information freely available to all boats". See ISAF Case 120.

I hope that helps,
Eric

14.2 An arbitration committee shall be called to seek resolution of redress requests described in submitted protest forms. The PRO and the Beach Master will be members of but shall not chair of this committee.

The only reason we do not have a protest committee is that we would need to get a live certified Judge to preside, we would need to pay his expenses.

Eric, at this point, you're making my case in all aspects...

I fully agree with Jake, utility will be minimal in all likelihood. Even if you sailed into a hole, and some other boats appeared to be in better breeze based on the tracking, you'd still need to get over to them...

Mike

Not true. There is no requirement to pay or reimburse any official. You could have different (local) judges at each stop as well.

And, you don't have to use a certified judge (although that is best practice).

What is the plan if someone wants to file a protest (not a request for redress)?

Mike

What about Skype or Vsee for a protest? I know there has been some discussion of utilizing these for hearings, and a multi-stop distance race would be a great example of where it could be beneficial. Admittedly there are issues with the idea, but it would be great to be able to have judges familiar with performance cats, no matter where the event.

If SPOT trackers are mandatory, as currently stated in the SI's, they either need to be provided by RC and sponsorship dollars used to cover their cost OR the fee included with the entry fee like other races that use tracking.

The inability to lodge a protest is asking for trouble. What is the RC's proposed solution when there is a collision at a start, finish or at any other time during racing and the results of a formal protest hearing need to be submitted for an insurance claim?

By that thinking they should supply all equipment. Hell, a boat too while they're at it. Don't like the rules, don't play the game, pretty simple.

Not allowing protests is insane.. reminds me of a certain steeplechase start a couple years ago.

Sam your logic on providing trackers makes no sense. There is no reason why they can't require it and require competitors to pay for it too. I've been to races where it was required to pay for tracking. It's not always realistic for the RC to have expenses like that.

Nope not that one - I can't imagine what that would be like.

We scratch together a protest committee at local regattas with 8 boats. We did it a couple of months ago as a formality. There's really nothing magical to it.

For starters, the protest has nothing to do with an insurance claim although it is never a bad idea in this regard. A protest committee NEVER assigns "fault". Protest committees only assign penalties as it relates to breaches of the rules. The fact that this may or may not affect or influence the decision of an insurance company is completely arbitrary.

Ditto...

Protest Committee (in the USA) does not adjudicate any claim for damages (see USS Prescription 67(b)). However, "by participating in an event governed by the rules, a boat agrees that responsibility for damages arising from any breach of the rules shall be based on fault as determined by application of the rules...". See USS Prescription 67(c).

1. Because an insurance company cannot apply the rules without knowing what happened, it is vitally important to have a protest hearing that provides finding of facts.
2. Because you cannot depend on an insurance company knowing anything about the rules, it's vitally important to have a protest hearing to apply the rules and determine fault.

So yes, protest committee does determine "fault", and yes, that determination directly affects an insurance claim.

Regards,
Eric

Not exactly the way I've heard it described at seminars. The insurance companies can take the report as evidence, but can then do whatever they want in terms of damages.

Mike

Eric +1 on every one of your posts in this thread.
Warren told me the arbitration comm. has the same effect("The results of an arbitration committee may be used for insurance purposes as the results of a Protest committee."). Not sure how it gets handled when no one is requesting redress but has a protest to lodge for a rules infraction, of which it is supposed to be your responsibility to protest.This concerns me, even though I've only ever filed one in my life also (to get redress).
I'm pretty much to the point where I'm done pointing out stuff on here because with the exception of Eric, many (Mike) seem to justify or create a straw man to try to argue their point for breaking the rules, that still doesn't make it right or legal. For example:Communication and outside assistance are different things. Outside assistance requires communication but not vice versa.
Sam, The Spots are not mandatory for the 300(per the SIs) unless you are going to use it instead of an Epirb.They may be for the sprint thing, not sure.

So now we can't have a debate about the rules without being accused of trying to break them? Wow...

Mike

You've swung and missed so many times on this thread it really doesn't matter.

You need to get out more. Not every event has to be run the same way, nor the way you personally desire.

No one is a bigger stickler for rules than I am, but rules can and do change. What is important is that they be clear and the consequences be well understood.

I'd love to see how you can allow unlimited communications, but censor the conversations on private devices. Get back to me when you have an answer for that one...

(I know, it's easier to just accuse me of promoting cheating, isn't it?)

Mike

Well, let's take a hypothetical example. Say Boats S and P collide on the racecourse, and boat S is damaged. S protests P. Protest committee finds that S broke no rules and that P broke rules 10 and 14, and PC penalizes P.

Although protest committee does not award damages to S ("such a claim is subject to the jurisdiction of the courts" - rule 67(b)), P is responsible for any monetary damages - rule 67(c).

So, lets suppose that S repairs his boat, and asks P to pay the cost. P, being the honorable fellow he is, makes an insurance claim under his liability policy. P's insurance company might deny the claim, especially if it doesn't get the facts, doesn't understand the racing rules, or mistakenly applies the legal doctrine of "assumption of risk". That doesn't make P any less responsible. If P can't get his insurance to cover the (monetary) damages, then P has to pay them out of his own pocket.

The completed protest form (with facts, conclusions, and decision of the protest committee) protects both S and P. S needs it to pursue a claim in the courts (if P doesn't pay willingly). P needs it (and possibly other documentation) to support his insurance claim. If there is no hearing, then somebody is going to get stiffed.

I hope that helps,
Eric

Get over yourself.I called you irrelevant, not a cheater. You have nothing to do with this race and aren't a distance racer, and obviously don't know near as much as you think you do, so how 'bout quit trolling and go back to the Hobie 16 forum.

Past Tybee 500s had the same rule...you can talk to your ground crew, just not about strategy. David Lennard even had a waterproof bluetooth ear piece for that purpose (for whatever good it did). I remember him calling in to report that two teams had cut inside the forbidden exclusion zone around Canaveral....which was a rule application disaster. I think those teams ended up with a 20 minute penalty which was, at best, close to the advantage they gained. This was in contrast to the skipper's meeting statement that you would be disqualified if you sailed inside the zone (not only taking a buoy to the wrong side but inside a straight line between the buoys that are separated by miles).

That's been my one beef about the east coast distance racing I've done. It takes a lot of time and preparation to put together a campaign for an event like this and then you run into something that's just not fair and it takes away from it. It's not that complicated to put a genuine jury in place. Dealing with rule infractions swiftly and justly actually reduces tension and makes things go much easier.

On the flip side, I do realize that there just aren't that many bodies willing to organize and operate a race like this - so I do feel a little guilty complaining.

Has anyone ever tried a video conference jury?

One of those teams would not have fessed up if I hadn't threatened a protest.They admitted their fault (under duress) and I suspect that's why the penalty was a wash and so weak. That's one of the reasons the no protest thing worries me.

Obviously, you can't censor private phone conversations. But then again, you can't prevent a boat from breaking a number of other rules when she's sailing out of sight. When there are no witnesses, a boat can also get away with:

• skipping a mark or rounding it improperly (RRS 28);
• touching a mark (RRS 31);
• removing PFDs (RRS 40);
• prohibited means of propulsion such as rocking, pumping, ooching, or sculling (RRS 42);
• wearing weights (RRS 43);
• hauling out (RRS 45);
• adding or removing crew or equipment (RRS 47);
• sitting outside lifelines (RRS 49);
• flying multiple spinnakers, double-poling a spinnaker, or using an outrigger (RRS 50);
• moving ballast (RRS 51); or
• putting trash in the water (RRS 55); et al.

Imperfect enforcement is not specific to RRS 41 by any means. At some point, however, one has to assume that competitors generally abide by the rules. One can hope that those few who don't will eventually slip up and get caught - or one can get used to disappointment.

Regards,
Eric

I haven't been in one myself, but video conference protest hearings have been held. US Sailing even has (or at least had) a GoToMeeting account available for that purpose. The judges I've spoken to who have done it feel that it's very important to be able to see the protestor and protestee (as well as the witnesses). It's important to get the nonverbal clues, as well as to insure that the parties aren't getting off-camera advice.

I've signed up as "judge on call" for a couple of events, but wasn't needed to phone into a hearing.

I've attended a few regattas where I couldn't be on protest committee (conflict of interest as a competitor), but I've offered advice to the PC. I can't hear testimony, question witnesses, help deliberate, or otherwise participate, but I can be called as a witness to advise on protest procedures and rule application.

Regards,
Eric

...having no solution, you're back to slinging insults. So helpful to your relevancy.

Go back a few posts, you most definitely accused me of making a case to break rules. How is that not calling me a cheater?

Jake and Eric make great points, that this could basically be handled as a gentleman's agreement and protested under the existing rules. I would caution against too much naïveté, it only takes one bad situation to ruin the reputation of an event. And ultimately, I care deeply about this.

Mike

I can see how the visual aspect of being on a jury is important - it would definitely be important to me if I were sitting on a jury. But, I do believe that even a conference call committee is better than none. That could be a cool service.

Krantz and Lennard made a fuss too and did actually file a protest with a non existant protest committee. And we woke up to nasty crap on our boat because they mistook us for Krantz' boat. That whole thing was awful and took away from the event experience. Wanna have a good trip down memory lane? Go replay the TV special footage of that next-morning skippers meeting where one of the offending team's ground crew ironically called out (negatively) the people that had made a fuss about them cutting the corner as poor sports. The whole thing just wasn't handled well and took more than 24 hours for any penalty to be adjudicated.

As I said before, I feel pretty bad by harping on this incident and I don't want it to taint all of the work and effort that Chuck and his group put into the event. Lord knows they spent a lot of time, money, and effort to make it happen - and it was overall a terrific event. However, we should be able to learn from the couple of times that things didn't go as well as they could have.

This is just one of those deals where reality and "what should be" (sailors being happily self-policing) are different and the best way to deal with it is to have something in place to handle it efficiently should the need arise. That whole situation would have been much less dramatic if it was just dealt with swiftly and there was a mechanism in place to handle the situation. Frank and I both saw both teams cut inside - they were just inside of us on the course when they consciously deviated north while we were heading out to clear the first buoy. You have a hearing, you hear the witnesses (at least four teams saw it happen), adjudicate the penalty, and go back to racing. Rip the bandaid off quickly and move along.

I would be willing to be a jury member on-call by video or phone for this event. I might even be able to organize the voice conferencing system through my Ring Central account.

It sounds like a situation that a gps tracker could have simplified. We're such devices in use for that race?

If you need more hands for a video jury, add me to your list. If you are unclear of my qualifications, PM me.

Mike

Everyone typically had a GPS unit for navigation and there was talk about having the teams submit their tracks to prove their innocence. I don't recall if this actually took place.

Sat nav (spots or EPIRBS) didn't exist. Epirbs at the time were a little more rudimentary in that they could signal a satellite to indicate an emergency but they couldn't transmit their location. The satellite would get rescue teams close but the EPIRB also emitted a warble locator signal on the aircraft beacon frequency that rescue crews could zero in on with radio equipment.

Thank you for all of the feedback on the Sailing Instructions. It will be taken into consideration. We will post the next revision on or before May 1st.

That's exactly what a race officer tells a judge when they have edits to SIs, when the RO really means, "FU, these are my SIs, not yours."

Not that you're saying that. Not at all.

Craig is acting as punching bag here, relay-er of information, and punching bag on the other side. He's pretty skinny to endure all of that. There are a number of people that the changes need to go through.

Matt has a good point (and we see that a lot, so I was thinking along similar lines for a while), but reading through some of Craig's prior posts, it seems pretty clear to me that's not his M.O.

Never really hurts to run the SIs through another RO or judge, though.

Mike

IIRC their GPS tracks magically disappeared that night, and their course was blamed on a buddy who was also on RC. It definitely cast a bad shadow on that year, which goes to show it should have been handled swiftly and to the letter of the law in the SIs. If it had, no one would even remember it.
A couple of years later, I actually confronted the skipper of one of the boats at an A cat regatta (not Mischa) and it almost came to blows. Later that night we made peace, drank beers, became friends, and I found out he trained by boxing. Needless to say I was pretty glad it didn't come to blows.

+1 Craig is the messenger, and I've given him plenty of punches. I thank him again for all of his work on this. The end game is really making it work for the organizers, the RC and especially the racers;).Most of the organizers involved have never done one of these races and see it from an RC point of view. Hopefully,This thread has helped alot to balance the perspective from both sides. The times that I've helped with RC work at big events, I can't help but feel that sometimes there is an underlying trend of the RC feeling they are competing with the competitors rather than working to make the race better. This is the sole reason I speak out about the things I think need to be addressed. It'd be very easy to just go race, take advantage of the loopholes or absence of rules and go home, but that will not help to nurture this race , or any ,into thriving.

I never thought of it this way - but I totally agree.

Todd, couldn't agree more with your last two posts.

Without getting into a lot of detail, I've been very fortune to have worked with some of the best ROs in the business. The single common trait that separates these guys from the rest is their unwavering commitment to the sailors. Their races, in all aspects including SIs, is all about giving the clients (sailors) what they want, and the best possible racing.

Obviously, this can be challenging at times, but this is my goal as well.

Mike

+1.

The SI's are confusing. Rule 8.5 is the issue:

It is suggested each boat to have onboard SPOT affixed in such a manner that it has a clear view of the
sky and is able to successfully transmit data to the Satellite Tracking System. SPOTs will be used for tracking
and are required to be activated and functional in
“tracking mode” at all times while racing. The RC will be
provided with relevant serial number information, etc. from
each tracking device so as to be sufficient to
allow the competitors to be tracked.

Care to propose better verbiage?

I think the intent is for them to be required...

Mike

Add "IF spots are used" in front of "SPOTs will be used for tracking
and are required to be activated and functional in
“tracking mode”. Shows that it is optional. I thought the same as Sam until Craig got me straight on it.

Todd is correct. They are not required but HIGHLY recommended. We will work on clarifying it more.

Hey! I just had an idea. Todd, be sure to have a SPOT. I'll call you every 10 minutes and tell you where to sail.

Now your on to something!

But if I go where you tell me I'll be 3 or 4 positions behind where I already was. Still ahead of Ding though, so there is that.

Islamorada Video:
http://youtu.be/teoYn1j1kOU

Delray Video:
http://youtu.be/rWPVUcJsXIE

Craig,you doing that fpv or los?

fpv. You could never get that line of sight.

I have a second receiver and can show on secondary screen like tv or jumbotron.

If you do exactly that Dalton tells you to do that might happen. Worked for the other Todd.

Worked for me at the Steeplechase (the one that you were cowering in the corner and too scared to show up at). Why do you think I got him as crew? I hope your bro can do the same for you, 'cause we know your old, geritol takin' azz ain't got no game. If you'll pay your debts (unlike Tad) maybe we should put a bottle of Rum on it. I know you have decent taste in Rum, at least.None of that spiced junk, or Baccardi (almost as bad as Riccardi) crap though.

AHAHAHHA whooops!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWPVUcJsXIE#t=152

What are you using for your fpv gear. I bought a Fatshark setup a while ago, but haven't put it on anything. I'd like to use it on a flying wing, but a quad certainly would make it easier, or least easier to stay range as it's not trucking along at 100mph.

If you do a quad go big heavy and with torquey props instead of going for speed. I've got an Armattan quad that is fast and nimble but would suck for FPV.

Looks like he came up happy, so all good and high fives all around. That rocker can really get ya on dry sand.

What are you using for your fpv gear. I bought a Fatshark setup a while ago, but haven't put it on anything. I'd like to use it on a flying wing, but a quad certainly would make it easier, or least easier to stay range as it's not trucking along at 100mph. [/quote]

5.8 GHZ transmitter and a 7" monitor with built in transmitter I got from China (wasn't available local 7 months ago). I have it mounted to my transmitter and powered by a LiPo mounted under transmitter.

When Ilived in Cooa Beach a short time back in '95, I sailed off Delray some.
Never before had I seen such a Graveyard of broken down, delapadated boats.
The local guru had everyone just triple shrouding each side of their boat, instead of upkeep and replacing shrouds, etc. At the time, nearly all of them had empry milk jugs hanging from the top of the mast as well.
Everyone was amazed when I sailed right by that 'guru', both of us on H16's! They couldn't believe someone had passed him, several times. It was rather easy ehwn I was trapping out, and I don't recall him even having a harness on.

Was years ago.

But I digress, sorry for the tangent, the video reminded me

I'm sure times have changed there now?

It must have made you feel good to pass Jesse, at that time he was already in his early 70s, he sailed that Hobie until he was in his mid 80s.

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What is the justification for a "3 minute protest"? Where has this ever been seen or used in sailboat racing before??? Should we just bring our guns to the party and have a shootout on the beach?

Also, have you read the GT300 rules top to bottom and checked the Florida 300 rules against them as one cohesive element? I.e do the rules in total make sense?? I can see a lot of deviation already, namely in the surf landing rules, who is appointing judges (the PRO, not competitors FYI) etc.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...hdHRleGFzMzAwfGd4OjUwMWUxOTFjOGZiODlhMTM

No guns - just inflatable battle sticks and spent fluorescent light tubes....and you have 31.2 seconds to do all the damage you can.

That is a strange system and, honestly, I hate to pile on - but this is not a very serious way to handle protests. You've got two "judges" one each selected by the opposing parties. There's not an odd number, neutral, or necessary rules knowledgeable "judge" in the mix. The chances of them agreeing are pretty slim and trying to get all of this done in three minutes seems like it would be more of a circus act than a serious attempt at arbitration. It actually stands a strong chance of creating MORE tension and discourse than to solve anything.

US Sailing already has a time tested process that, isn't perfect, but it works. We're also talking about a protest that happens maybe once every two or three years in an event like this. There's a lot of energy going on to reinvent a system that already works - for a situation that doesn't happen that often. I still like the idea of having a formal protest, in a hotel room, with an on-call (phone of video) jury of rule experienced people. Settle the issue clean giving both parties an opportunity to explain to knowledgeable people...knowledgeable people discuss, and come back with a (hopefully) sound judgement with a real rules justification that is difficult to argue with.

3 minute protest is used very often in college sailing and team races. It works fine unless you have someone in the room like Sam
Seriously though, we used to do it right on the finish boat, works great.

I took a quick read of SI 14, and my opinion is that it may cause more problems than it solves. Technical issues aside, populating a protest committee with interested parties is likely to result in an appeal. If the protest committee does not supply a written decision, then the appeals committee will undoubtedly send the protest back to be reheard.

If the goal is to expedite hearings, then why not simply invoke Appendix T Section C - "Expedited Hearings"?

In my opinion, "3 minute justice" only works in very informal racing, or with a very experienced protest committee. Do you ever wonder why an "international jury" is defined the way it is, or why it's decisions cannot be appealed? It's because IJ's operate in regattas with such high protest loads that they cannot get the job done without throwing protest procedure to the wind. The jury members have to be extraordinarily skilled in order to reach the correct decision without taking the time to follow Appendix M.

There are a number of skilled judges in Florida. Why not approach them to help out?

Sincerely,
Eric Rasmussen
Chair, SAYRA Appeals Committee

I agree that the best practice would be to use the existing verbiage provided by US Sailing.

I also agree that you actually need stronger judges to properly use arbitration. And, it's not meant to replace a full PC, but to limit the number of full hearings needed. This only works if the arbitration judge is very experienced and respected, otherwise the sailors will always proceed to the full hearing, and the result is that you just added needless complexity for zero gain.

I fully disagree that IJs ignore Appendix M or "throw procedure to the wind." The IJs I've worked with follow the same process for all hearings, and that is basically what's spelled out in Appendix M.

On a personal level, when hearing protests, I like to have the book open to Appendix M. I find that it adds a level of formality, and reassures sailors that we're following due process, and they will get their time to talk. This tends to alleviate people interrupting one another, shouting, etc.

Mike

I've umpired high school and college team racing, so no, you probably don't want to be in the room with me

The big difference between that and this is you have pro or semi-pro judges on the finish or umpire boat making a decision, and another big difference is these rules experts see the incident in real time. At the high school level, the boat has coaches from opposing teams and a third unbiased judge. At the college level, it's professional umpires in the boats making the calls and hearing the on-the water protests.

A 3 minute shootout on the beach isn't going to work. I agree with Jake that we would be better served by conference calling/Skyping judges into a hotel room.

and THAT, my esteemed colleagues, will dramatically increase the YouTube viewer count.

Rent some inflatable Sumo wrestler suits, far more entertaining. Hobie Fleet 204 did this for a Hobie 17 Open / 16 Womens NAs a few years back. Not in place of a jury, of course, but entertaining nonetheless. Especially Mimi vs. PU...

Mike

I have been involved in a lot of "3 minute justice" hearings, but we never really put a watch on things. The idea is more that you don't necessarily need a form, which allows for hearings in an umpire boat between races. Works great for team racing.

I will disagree with Sam on two points:
1. Really no such thing as 'pro' umpires... or else I'm doing the wrong events!
2. If you are hearing a protest in a team race you very likely didn't see the incident. The only hearings are either yellow flag, or because no umpire was present.

I'm scared to comment as this is the ridiculous result of it, last time.

I don't assert that all International Juries ignore procedure. I mean that International Juries are composed the way they are so that they are able to "cut to the chase" when necessary.

I once sat in (as a silent observer) on an International Jury at the Sunfish Worlds. A couple of the most senior judges in the area were the junior members of the Jury. The Chief Judge and the Jury Scribe were International Judges from Canada. They were phenomenally skilled. With just 5 minutes (or less) of testimony from each party, and only 5 minutes (or less) of deliberation, the Jury delivered their written decision, complete with diagram, rule analysis, and ISAF Case citations. It was the quickest and most thorough Protest Committee I have ever seen.

And no, the jury did not step through the procedure of Appendix M. With the number of protests filed (98 world-class competitors in a single start) summary justice was the only way to get through them each day.

If those guys held 3-minute hearings on the beach, I'd be confident in their decision.

Eric

At National and World class team racing events, ISAF certified judges are present..they might not be paid to be on the water but their housing, food and travel expenses are covered.

And yes you are correct on the hearing. All of this is moot when pertaining to the Florida 300, as there won't be on the water judging, and there won't be an international judging team present that can wrap up a full protest in 15 minutes. It's pretty clear the F300 rule writers were searching for loopholes in the Appendixes which were created for entirely different purposes, and failed to look at the big picture. A protest in this race is likely to only happen if there was equipment damage that caused significant time lost and/or an insurance claim...you need real paperwork...it's not that hard.

We either get proper unbiased judges to form a protest committee on the beach, or we skype those judges into a hotel room. If those two options are out of the question, I like the Sumo suits combined with the light saber idea.

I had a little time this morning to drink a bit of coffee and enter the waypoints. It's more fun than reading the newspaper. I thought they were on the FL300 site, but I didn't see them. Am I missing something? I want to get familiar with the 'landing zones' before the race.

They are in the SI's: SI's

General Waypoints:
Islamorada: 24°55.125'N; 80°37.77'W
Key Biscayne: 25°41.735'N; 80°9.39'W
W Palm Beach Shores: 26°46.736'N; 80°1.881'W
Vero Beach: 27°38.026'N; 80°21.045'W
Cocoa Beach: 28°22.124'N; 80°36.112'W

Note: These waypoints are for general reference only. The actual finish line will be determined when the race committee surveys the finishing area on the day of the race.

Craig,

Any updates to the SI's? Should I throw the Colt 45 in the suitcase?

Best,
Sam

Nah! Todd has got the weapons and ammo covered. Can you make due with 10,000 rounds of 9mm and 15,000 rounds of .223? He'll probably have a years supply of MRE's squirrelled away at various hiding places along the course. You never know where you'll be when anarchy breaks out.

Are deck mounted M249s class legal on F18s?

and that's why I like Todd.

Or waxing the minivan... But at least it's got a trailer hitch so there is some semblance of macho-ness...

No, no there really isn't.

Mike

If you have at least a class III hitch, you can call it a manivan.

Yes we know that's why you like Todd.

Any news/updates/pics from setup day?

Will work on all of the above after I get caught up on the Behghazi and climate change threads.