Catamarans have been invited to Gulfport to Pensacola Race

With its original roots being formed in 1850 (See this month's issue of Sailing World & Troy Gilbert's story) the annual Gulf Yachting Association Gulfport MS to Pensacola Race, is hosting a full multihull Division for beach catamarans (DPN) and trimarans (PHRF). This marks the first time in such a history catamarans have been welcomed.

The NoR link is below.
http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/regatta_uploads/8413/2014G2PNORPKG.pdf

This might fit in as a tune up for the Great Texas 300 or satisfy that need for offshore speed.

The Multihull Council will be calling the rules and standards for safety and scoring. They can throw Great parties at Gulfport Yacht Club, and the award ceremony will be quite festive. One year we sold enough bushwackers to buy a center console powerboat for our junior program at PYC.

The NoR features many of the safety requirements, and the MHC will be guiding us through this when Randy gets back from Hawaii. He is pushing for some of the Everglades Challengers, from the water tribe to attend. We will see if we can make those sailors happy and keep the Southern Yacht Club BoD from worry.

Contact me with a private e-mail if you have questions.
Bert Rice, Safety Committee Chairman (FWYC/PBYC)

I've done it on big boats a bunch of times, even did it on the R33 one year. But I've always had the jones to do it on a beach cat. This could be the year...

interesting....but here we go again with the tether for multihull including while trapzeing. I am not a fan of the tether. To my knowledge, I don't know of a single instance where it has provided anyone an advantage. I feel that it is much more of an entanglement liability and serves to potentially keel-haul you if you fall overboard. I've been personally involved with an offshore capsize with a dangerous entanglement issue that was close to becoming life threatening. I just can't imagine any scenario that I would want to be tethered to the boat in sailing conditions.

Having one "on my person ready and available to be used", however, I think is smart - it could come in handy in all sorts of situations.

Jake and all,

I have always used a harness and a strap to the appropriate attachment point on the boat, which varies. Nowdays the length is the study point for planers and soon to foil guys. I have not been in a serious offshore race, since the seventies, and not found the time to break out the harness line and hook on if the need be.

I told Bob Hodges the secret lies in the line, "trapeze wires may be synthetic."... means modern tethers may be much lighter and stronger than the old style Forespars with the heavy shackles and strapping - very bulky to wear on deck, but I was always glad to have it when changing sails during a storm at night, offshore.

The jury is out on this until Randy, a member of our safety committee, returns from Hawaii. He will know the latest and wisest course to take.

I have never used a tether on a catamaran because I firmly held the sheets, but with synthetics and safe knives - why not? We just need to find the magic length for the trimarans and catamarans. Tea bagging at night ain't fun, but swimming alone with a PFD, tracking device, and strobe may not be preferred as well. Our boats do not sink, so I say we stay hooked in when necessary, and stow the tether when not in use. Just have one on!!! I used my foul weather gear pockets to hide mine from my feet and hands.

The safety committee will issue an announcement after Randy gets back.

Mike,

I remember you and Rick ripping down the coast that year like you were a beach cat:-)

Y'all had her all nice and tied up pretty in the slip by the time we got in on the C 24.

It's impossible to enforce the use of a tether once the team leaves the beach, at best it will be a guideline and a personal choice made by the team.

I'd heard that G to P was making an outreach to multihulls. I had considered entering the race until I heard that Bert Rice was involved. I've been avoiding races run by him for the past six years because of prior bad experiences.

oh well, count this multihull out.

I finally spoke with Randy this morning at FWYC where he is putting on a trimaran racing clinic. We both agreed the safety recommendations are sound, and the OA from Southern Yacht Club is hoping multihulls return for another go.

The race can last all night on a trimaran, but Gene Wallet owns the unofficial record (almost forty years old) on a Pacific catamaran. If I remember the boat even flew a kite. He finished before dawn, I believe.

I meant to add that our next offshore racing adventure will be the RtI in September, and we are shooting for a division of small tris and an "Everglades Challenge" - style, course format.

News on Safety update: One of the tri sailors has appealed the OA for the same safety requirements as the monohull entries, and that has reached the OA channel for review. The issue is now EPIRBs and PLBs.

The jury is out, so more clarification will be required. At least the process is working before - hand, in order to make the challenge more friendly but keep it safe.

Interesting point. If the OA feels strongly that the multihulls entering this regatta are less inherently safe than the monohulls, you can (and should) have different requirements. This may not turn out to be a popular decision amongst potential entries.

Another way to go is to list those devices as strong recommendations (not requirements) for all boats in the regatta.

Mike

Sailing is not football... it's not a game about what you can get away with under the nose of the official... its not about bending the rules....

Agree with the rules or don't race... You follow the rules... or you don't race sailboats... It should never be about enforcing the rules.

Point made. I will not be attending ANY regatta where a rule made up by an uneducated OA has the potental to reduce my safety at sea. Although it could be a nice payday for my widow and her new husband. How did your first husband die Ms. Kathy... He got tangled in his mandated teather and drown and it worked out for Pedro and I and nicely.

In an effort for an OA to reduce their liability they end up exposing themselves further. Still seems like saftey at sea issues should be guidelines not rules. Right up there with it's your decision and your decision only if you push off the beach or not.

+1

Having myself tethered to the boat (small, extremely maneuverable multihull) can most definitely be a liability. I won't race with one attached. Have you ever had your sailing buddy say to you "don't let me die, dude" as he's being dragged under water tangled up in a turtling boat? I have and we both narrowly avoided the worst [censored] awful situation (particularly him). You'll never convince me to purposely clip myself into a boat that could easily end up flipping, twisting, rolling, and upside down. No way.

And as Dave pointed out - for the OA to require it is putting them in a potentially tough spot too. Require things that aren't potential liabilities - EPIRBs, VHFs, float plans, charts, flares, etc. If you feel the need to mention them, advise/suggest things that carry some liability with them.

Requiring a personal tether on a boat that is more stable upside down that it is right side up is a gigantic liability.

Not taking sides, I will add here that I've seen tethers required by cat clubs before, and these were experienced cat sailors (really old New England 100 days). IIRC, they were required on the boat, but you didn't have to be clipped in.

Tethers, like PFDs, are tough. People have been trapped under boats and unable to escape without removing their PFD. Others have been saved only because of the PFD. Other than probabilities, one group isn't more "right" than the other.

Bring dragged behind a boat is no fun, neither is having the boat drift away from you with no rescue boat in sight. Would make the EPIRB and VHF on your person suddenly much more important, though...

Mike

Mike,

Saying you've seen the tether requirement before and it was supported by very experienced sailors (in your opinion btw) doesn't really make as strong a point as you think it does. Just because someone else does or says something won't change my position unless they have a very compelling argument. I have an EPIRB on my person (my crew does too) I'm NOT tieing myself to the boat. If that's a rule then so be it, I have other options.

And for f!@k sake take a position! The middle of the road is completely uninteresting. Even though Mark annoys the piss out of me he almost never bores me. When he channels Wouter is when he bores me.

"Experienced" doesn't necessarily equal "smart".

I get PFDs. The risk and severity of the issue that the extra buoyancy could trap me under something on the boat is pretty small compared to the likely hood I would not be able to tread water for the length of time I might need before being rescued.

The level of risk I carry with getting separated from the boat (while I have a PFD, EPIRB, and VFD on me) is much lower than the risk of the entanglement that could kill me if the boat flips, rolls, and turtles. That one gives me about 1 minute, and my buddy an additional 3 or 4 assuming he can administer CPR on an upside down catamaran, to figure out how I survive. On the other hand, if I got separated from the boat with the typical gear I wear, I've probably got 48 hours or more (since I carry water in my PFD too) to figure something out. If nothing else, I'll take the option with extra time.

Now, I do believe in CARRYING a tether that is tied to me. You never know when being able to throw 20 feet of line to something might come in really handy...just not with both ends clipped in with the intent to keep me with the boat.

Being tied to my boat would be a deal breaker for me.

I actually agree with you guys, if it matters. But, there is always more than one way to look at things.

Mike

I WAS one of those "really old New England 100 days" sailors. They didn't make you tie yourself to the boat, you had to have the means to do it if you wanted to, lots of races do that. They also made you carry an anchor which generally did more harm to your boat in waves than good if you tried to use it in the rocks. The GT300 likes you tied to the boat also as well as leaving your VHF on all the time , so when you really need it ,it's dead. Not me, ain't doing it. I as well have been tangled under a turtled boat and will do everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen again. OAs don't want to hear experiences, they just want liability mitigation, which they aren't going to get by increasing risk with mandates.

Must be a full moon. Now we have a few things in common...

Mike

I've known who you are since you came on the scene with the brew 16. Same place,same time but still little in common.

Don't get all warm and mushy or anything. I said a FEW things...

Better?

Mike

The author of the SIs has stepped in, and we have cleared up concerns from the PHRF Class by moving a few items off the "required" list in order to accommodate sailors who may only do an overnighter once a year. The author's pen and a consensus between the MHC and the OA from SYC has reached an agreement that now offers our multihull entries the same requirements as their keelboat entries. This will save one team from purchasing over $1,400 on EPIRBs and PLBs.


The one area of interest for catamaran sailors is the course. Keelboats are required to sail out into the Gulf of Mexico to Gulfport Sea Buoy (approx. 2.5 nm), proceed down the coast, leaving Mobile Sea Buoy to port, to the finish line off Pensacola Sea Buoy (3 nm offshore). We are considering a change in that plan for the catamarans.

Rather than have the catamarans that far offshore, we will push for a coastline sprint such as the Florida 300 or GT 300 style. We are hoping to have five boats this year, so some of you join us in Mississippi for a salty adventure.

Bert, I can't tell from the NOR, is there a size restriction for the multihulls? If there are going to be Hobie 16s or F18s on the water, I can see the concern about being 3 miles out (although that's not terribly far), but if it's all big boats (offshore tris), I don't see the concern.

Mike

We are pushing for the F 18s, I 20s, and other open DPN designs. These designs have proven to be "ocean worthy" by virtue of their history in Tybee contests and more recent challenges. These boats have a realistic target time for the race, and can be patrolled more easily than an open fleet with older designs mixed in.

We would consider an F 16 if the team is credible.

Simply put, the OA has the right to accept or deny entries, and they will defer a decision to our committee for consultation if there is a team on the fence of eligibility.

The inshore route is less contaminated with old oil and gas rigs. Some of which may not be lit. Once a boat is past Mobile Bay, they come into deep, open water on the Florida side.

Copy, thank you.

Mike

Can you expand upon this a little? I've been trading emails with Kett today on the safety equipment requirements b/c of the ambiguity of what is in the NOR. In what you said above, do you mean that the "big cats" (i.e. Sprint 750's, etc) are exempt from the requirements?

He's also asked me for a PHRF for the boat, which... doesn't exist. Regardless, Brian and I will be under a provisional D-PN or mod factor number; is that going to be accepted?

Really glad that you guys are interested and regret the confusion. This is the first year for a Multihull "Division."

That being said, the regs for cats (sailing with DPNs rather than under the PHRF Rule) are a dealt with, in general, within the 'Recommendations.' There are subtle differnces which vary between the PHRF Class (different needs) and beach cats (need for safety thing again).

Kett has done a great job and helped make this happen, but he was unfamiliar with this ambiguity when he drafted the NoR.

Since then we have been in dialogue, and he has published an amendment specifying requirements for the PHRF Class. Now that beach cats may truly become involved, I am sure we can arrive at a fair baseline start by telling you if you carry the same safety equipment you are used to carrying for overnight races, then you will be fine.

We will need to track the boat for progress, and we will need you to provide means of locating a separated crewman in a dark and angry sea state. Our recommendations are largely based on recent safety equipment employed by sailors in the Everglades Challenge, Florida 300, and GT 300. Those are your best guides.

I will contact him with this traffic.

Keep Sailing,
Bert Rice, PBYC and FWYC

Ok, you might want to check with Kett, now I'm told,

"Unfortunately, that's going to be a problem. Per the NOR, your entry cannot be accepted without a GYA-MC sanctioned PHRF rating. The best I can do is direct you to the GYA-MC to see what you can get worked out. Here is the link to the GYA.org site: http://www.gya.org/?page_id=15. There is a PHRF certificate application there with contact information.

A Portsmouth division is not out of the question for future events, but it will require more advance notice and enough participation to justify it."

Roger that. I have been representing the GYA MHC since its founding, and your alert has shadows of days past. The keelers mean well, but oftentimes we (multihulls) become lost in translation. Kett and I have been sharing mails, and I have contacted the Race Officer as well as the current Chair of the MHC for their review.

Thank You for the spark and hope of seeing this challenge grab traction. Randy hopes to have small DPN tris (Evergaldes Challenge style craft) involved. At least that is what he and Linda shared with me.

Perhaps we can work this out next year, as Kett said. I am still waiting to hear from our Chair.

The OA of Southern Yacht Club for the G to P Race has responded very positively about next year. Our MHC will be working with them in the critical and early stages of planning so there are no future misunderstandings. The case is closed for 2014, but we have planted a seed.

http://kws.kattack.com/GEPlayer/GMPosDisplay.aspx?FeedID=1262 for live tracking...Bob Hodges (Corsair Sprint 750) is currently running around fourth boat for boat behind the Carcreek 40, Decision, which started much earlier. It looks as though they are burning chutes for the first time in a few years, and PYC is gearing up to serve some early morning Bushwackers.

Evidently, the wind has gone aft and become lighter. Even Decision is sailing with more bearing out to sea, around Mobile, which we call, "The Mobile Hole." The tidal flow into and out of Mobile Bay stretches far into the Gulf because of the shoals on the east side of the Pass, across from the Lighthouse. They are assuming a higher angle of attack for speed around Mobile, hoping to gybe back toward rhumb line at the right time. The offshore forecast calls for a backing breeze (westerly) that is to increase for the next few days. The Dark Side, with Bob sailing, and quite possibly, Donnie and Andrew Brennan of VX One fame, is having to sail higher and slower than Decision at this time.

Will we have a beach cat turnout next year? SYC will most likely allow them now that they understand us, and we understand them.

10:30 Report: Decision remains a little lower and a little faster. The leaders have gybed and the Dark Side 's latest report revealed:

DARK SIDE
Last Comm (dd:hh:mm:ss) : 00:00:23:46
Heading: 57
Speed: 7.3 Knots

Decision is bearing 86 deg at 8.6 knts. Hodges and Dark Side are still fighting for third to the finish line, just a few miles behind at a higher angle. I would love to see the wind pipe up so they could start hauling the mail. One of the other boats in that gaggle behind Decision may be the other Corsair 750. Final report in an hour. Decision does appear to have broken away from Mobile and the oil rigs into Florida waters.

Final Report until morning: Fringe Element, the Corsair 750 MK II, skippered by David Saint is about to rocket past Tiare, an annual podium finisher and former PHRF Sloop overall winner. Dark Side is just outside and ahead, sailing a bit higher and faster, according to the tracker. They appear to be third boat to the finish line, pending the situation with Decision. The Corsairs are doing mid sevens, Tiare is chugging in the high fives. Zydeco will be the next boat in second, possibly the first boat to overtake Decision.

There you have it... multihulls are hauling the mail along the Gulf Coast.

Decision has slowed to 1.7 knts, and heading south. What has happened aboard Decision?

The tracker shows that Dark Side is in, and Fringe Element is entering Pensacola Pass after finishing at Pensacola Sea Buoy. Since Decision's transponder is still broadcasting off Mobile, one might guess they "lost" the unit overboard. Yea, Right. When Paul Schreck was racing, he was known to put a cup over his stern light. He even used black chutes in the 60s and seventies. Why would Decision be parked off Mobile? One could guess they have already hit the rack after a few pitchers of Bushwackers.

Tried something new - I pulled a summary away from the performance of the fleet based on tracking. I used the edit feature last evening so as not to overwhelm the number of reply boxes. Below is a take based on what I perceived to be occurring on the race track during the second half of the race. The Kattack tracking is included in my commentary. Hope this gives everyone a bird's eye view of this epic challenge for the GYA offshore crowd. I will put the final results up when Southern/Pensacola YCs puts them on the GYA web site. The commentary focuses on the duel between Hodges on Dark Side and Stan Murray's Decision.

http://kws.kattack.com/GEPlayer/GMPosDisplay.aspx?FeedID=1262 for live tracking...Bob Hodges (Corsair Sprint 750) is currently running around fourth boat for boat behind the Carcreek 40, Decision, which started much earlier. It looks as though they are burning chutes for the first time in a few years, and PYC is gearing up to serve some early morning Bushwackers.

Evidently, the wind has gone aft and become lighter. Even Decision is sailing with more bearing out to sea, around Mobile, which we call, "The Mobile Hole." The tidal flow into and out of Mobile Bay stretches far into the Gulf because of the shoals on the east side of the Pass, across from the Lighthouse. They are assuming a higher angle of attack for speed around Mobile, hoping to gybe back toward rhumb line at the right time. The offshore forecast calls for a backing breeze (westerly) that is to increase for the next few days. The Dark Side, with Bob sailing, and quite possibly, Donnie and Andrew Brennan of VX One fame, is having to sail higher and slower than Decision at this time.

Will we have a beach cat turnout next year? SYC will most likely allow them now that they understand us, and we understand them.

10:30 Report: Decision remains a little lower and a little faster. The leaders have gybed and the Dark Side 's latest report revealed:

DARK SIDE
Last Comm (dd:hh:mm:ss) : 00:00:23:46
Heading: 57
Speed: 7.3 Knots

Decision is bearing 86 deg at 8.6 knts. Hodges and Dark Side are still fighting for third to the finish line, just a few miles behind at a higher angle. I would love to see the wind pipe up so they could start hauling the mail. One of the other boats in that gaggle behind Decision may be the other Corsair 750. Final report in an hour. Decision does appear to have broken away from Mobile and the oil rigs into Florida waters.

Final Report until morning: Fringe Element, the Corsair 750 MK II, skippered by David Saint is about to rocket past Tiare, an annual podium finisher and former PHRF Sloop overall winner. Dark Side is just outside and ahead, sailing a bit higher and faster, according to the tracker. They appear to be third boat to the finish line, pending the situation with Decision. The Corsairs are doing mid sevens, Tiare is chugging in the high fives. Zydeco will be the next boat in second, possibly the first boat to overtake Decision.

There you have it... multihulls are hauling the mail along the Gulf Coast.

Decision has slowed to 1.7 knts, and heading south. What has happened aboard Decision?

The tracker shows that Dark Side is in, and Fringe Element is entering Pensacola Pass after finishing at Pensacola Sea Buoy. Since Decision's transponder is still broadcasting off Mobile, one might guess they "lost" the unit overboard. Yea, Right. When Paul Schreck was racing, he was known to put a cup over his stern light. He even used black chutes in the 60s and seventies. Why would Decision be parked off Mobile? One could guess they have already hit the rack after a few pitchers of Bushwackers.

The Dark Side crossed the line shortly after Decision. The skipper reported his finish time as 3:50 AM, slightly ahead of Johnny Lovell, sailing the J 111, Zydeco. Bob said they were neck and neck for much of the race and that his wife and a friend sailed with him.

Considering the fine sailor was 5th in the A Cat NAs and winner of the G to P within a week, says much for his devotion to sailing.

If a couple Corsairs can Finish before sunrise, then The beach cats should be able to complete the race shortly after midnight in average conditions. Getting past Mobile is the real challenge.

Hoping there is a multihull division next year,
Bert

I'm going to post this reply because while Bert means well, I don't agree with his viewpoints at times and I want to present what accurately transpired for this race.

First, for race organizers of offshore events like this, there needs to be a clear distinction between beach cats and PHRF multihulls and my recommendation to the GYA for this race next year will be that a PHRF rated multihull is one that has a cabin with shelter for the crew and auxiliary power. This is the type of boat the race organizer intended to include for this race in the NOR and they were totally unprepared for the requests to have beach cat participation so the title of this thread was somewhat misleading to begin with.

If there is a group of beach cat sailors that want to participate in this race, my recommendation is that as a group (the best route is probably through the GYA multihull council chairman David Johnson) they should draft a proposal on how beach cats racing on the Portsmouth handicap system can be integrated into this event with their own separate start, safety rules, and awards. The race organizers were not thinking of beach cats when they included a multihull division in the NOR this year. They were thinking of the past participation of Corsair trimarans and the Reynolds 33 in this race. We're trying to get PHRF multihulls back and at one point we thought we had 5 boats committed this year but it dropped back to two. The race organizers were caught off guard and confused when it was (at least it seemed to me) "somewhat rammed down their throats" that they accept beach cats as entries. That was not done well IMO.

Regarding the safety rules that were finalized for our entry, there is a set of GYA multihull safety recommendations that are not mandatory but are a tool for race organizers. The issues I raised were that the OA had taken the recommendations and changed all of them to mandatory for all the items on the list. This list is broad and general and not specific. I will do a followup with the race organizer on what items make sense for PHRF multihulls. At one point we were being required to wear PFD's and tethers at ALL times during the race and for each person on the boat to have their own personal EPIRB or PLB on them at all times. That is where I calculated my expense to comply with this as being nearly $1,400. For the record, we had the same safety gear as the monohulls, we wore our PFD's (that had water activated strobes, whistles, and personal flares) after dusk through dawn, and we had tethers and jacklines on board to be used at my discretion as the owner of the boat. The OA admitted to me that they had not read the recommendations when they drafted the NOR, they simply "checked off all the boxes" without considering the real intent or application of the recommendations.

Since we had only two entries (our Sprint 750 and David Saint's Sprint 750), we were not eligible for a class award but the race organizer did generously provide one at the awards ceremony. Our goal was to have fun and have a good race against the fast (i.e. PHRF A) monohulls. We made a request to start with the PHRF A class and I'm pleased to say that even though the PRO was initially reluctant to do this, the other PHRF A competitors lobbied after the skipper's meeting to get us on the line with them. Even though the overall fleet corrected times for the overall awards would not include us, it made for a fun race to see who finished where both boat for boat and on corrected. While Decision (at a PHRF of -42) was the scratch boat, I was pretty amazed they beat us by less than one hour across the finish line (they needed to beat us by about 125 minutes to correct out, our rating was 33). We had an awesome race with the new J-111 Zydeco being steered by Tornado Olympic medalist Johnny Lovell. On the 12 mile beat out of Mississippi Sound to the Gulfport channel entrance in only 5-7 knots of breeze, we were pretty much boat for boat trading tacks and the only boat ahead of us was Decision. I was really pleased to see us ahead of a Cal 48, J-125, a couple of Beneteau 40.7's, a B-32, a J-35 and others on our 24' Corsair trimaran. We had speed and height with these boats so I don't think they can present an argument that tris can't point. Zydeco got past us right at the top of the beat as we sailed for the wrong channel marker that we had to leave to port to head out to the Gulf. We grind them back down on the next 7 mile reach as the breeze picked up to 8-10 knots and then stayed ahead of them but in sight of each other for the remainder of the race (the breeze pretty much stayed in the 6-10 knot range for us until the finish). At times, I thought we were 15-20 minutes ahead of them but at the finish, we crossed the line 2nd boat overall and 12 seconds shy of the 10 minutes we had to finish ahead of them elapsed to correct out (they rated 39). That's what I call a close race. In the overall corrected times for the entire 32 boat fleet, we were third with Zydeco in 2nd and the very well sailed Cal 48 Tiare in first (this boat has sailed this event over 40 times). The light air and long downwind leg after the Gulfport channel really worked for Tiare as she squared off and sailed dead downwind at times exceeding the course VMG us, Zydeco, Decision, and all the other sprit/A-sail boats were doing. She's a beautiful, extremely well maintained yacht and her win was very well received.

My focus will be to bring a class of 4-5 PHRF multi's next year to this event. I hope they will continue to let us start with the PHRF A boats as there is a barn door trophy and to make it fair for the boats that can compete for that award, they have to all start together. While some of the race organizers still seemed kind of "cool" to our participation and the requests we made, I think our fellow monohull competitors enjoyed having us to race against. At least that was the feedback I got at the awards presentation.

Cheers,

Bob Hodges

Greetings,

Bob has had a great week of sailing, but he is not aware of all the facts. No need to complain or explain, but worthy of noting, is that we have been working with the OA through the MHC, and they have been responsive to our concerns.

Our Safety Recommendations have risen to the surface this year, and that has been a blessing, because just a couple years ago, under safety, in the NoR, there was mention that synthetic trapeze wires could be used.

I am just saying we are closing the gap in an effort to bring distance racing for multihulls to the Gulf Coast, and this race is one pure test of skill.

Bert Rice, Secretary, GYA MHC

Bob Hodges is spot on, and he has my support. Bob did a fine job of salvaging the G to P for multihulls, because after Rice's last-minute completely unfounded interjections, the OA for G to P was likely to oust multihulls altogether, and no wonder. There needs to be one clear focused contact point for the GYA multihull representation to the RC for G to P, and Rice is not that person.

I now have a 'cruising' catamaran, and am in touch with a few others down here and am in hopes to get other large multihulls, somewhat less performance oriented than the trimarans to participate next year. Bob, that would be Elenbaas' Lagoon, Hulse's Leopard, and maybe I can get another Leopard, maybe we might get Pedersen's Piver, who knows? Roger Evans (F28 aluminum stick) has clearly stated that like me, he will absolutely not participate in a race if he hears one iota that Rice is involved in it.

I should think that there is no reason that 20 foot and larger beach-cats can't participate, but that should be ironed out in the Winter GYA Meeting when such things are done, not two weeks before the race and outside the purvey of the GYA Multihull Council Chairman.

PS. If synthetic line is good enough for standing rigging, it's just fine for trapezes. This is another example of how the safety rules aren't being purveyed by people who know something about multihull safety.

For what it's worth, there are relatively few actively racing and experienced racers that campaign 20 foot (or longer) "beachcats". F18 is where most of us went to as the Nacra 20 fleet started to decrease and I think you stand a better chance for a stronger beach cat fleet if you also included F18s. The F18 is as capable as the Nacra 20 and very similar in speed.

Jake:

1.Baby steps. we are damn lucky to get multihulls in at all, especially after the above debacle. It will be an extremely hard sell to get anything smaller than 20' in. Sorry.
2.Maybe in your neck, but down here there are the 'Formula' N20, an N20C, and there's a certain Tornado and a couple Supercat/ARC
3. This isn't an along-the-beach race - the marks are well offshore, to the tune of out of sight of land. I well understand the OA reticence to allow beachcats in.

Jake, F 18s and Nacra 17s shall be included. The N 17 just won the Texel Race on corrected time, and that speaks for itself.

I have a clue who this jaybird is, and he is really out of the loop. I just spent a high energy weekend covering the Challenge Cup, and being on the water with many of those which jbird mentioned, but I never see him enter ANY races unless they happen in his own backyard, much - less spend a week on the race committee during a national - level championship.

I hold no grudge because I can not make myself angry or spiteful. My SOARS account is my evidence, and I now consider this matter closed.

When the MHC completes its proposal we will be back with the details. We are hoping to finally resolve this at the annual meeting in September before the Lipton Cup.

Jbird, if you only really knew the truth, then you would know that PHRF boats have been invited for years now thanks to the MHC's work.

Do you even know the real history of the MHC or the Safety Recommendations? Will your name ever be engraved on the Logan Emelet trophy? Do you have a GYA Multihull Rating Certificate, Jay? They are required to enter.

Cruising boats have sailed in years past, and are always welcomed, but we asked for cats this year because the MHC Chair wanted to. We are also looking to add small tris as a Gulf Coast Challenge.

I doubt that we will be sending any small dpn boats out to the Gulfport sea buoy, but the cats can't sail in the ditch, so they will have to leave the Mobile sea buoy to port, thence to a Finish Line inside Pensacola Bay. PHRF boats will sail the traditional course.

Bert,

I am Jay Klassen. You know damn well who I am.

Your participation in races is the reason why, as I've stated several times, I as well as numerous other multihulls west of you will not participate if your involvement continues.

It is time to step aside and let the new blood in, Rice. Maybe then the multihulls can then gain traction within the GYA.

And outside your control, you not being on that committee at the time, I obtained a certificate nearly as soon as I bought the boat.

I do like the concerted efforts to add beachcats to existing events, which in my partially senile mind would bring synergies to both parties... the beachcats for having an event that they don't have to create from scratch, and the organizers for having greater turnout..?

Thank you for all who "hoe the row" to the benefit of the rest of us whiners sailors

I do understand the nature of this race and I would like to understand the OA concerns with regards to item #3. I've got a fair amount of incremented distance racing and endurance style (multiple overnights) small multihull racing experience in some pretty crazy stuff. Taking my boat well out of sight of land isn't a concern to me (obviously, well prepared). Competing in a race like this on a beachcat does offer more weather exposure but the additional speed offsets most of that risk....and there is exceptionally little difference between the capabilities of a modern 18 footer and the 20 foot boats.

Back when I was building IOR boats one feature of the electric panel was a variable resistor connected to nav lights. Nighttime shenanigans.

I second Jakes comments on the F18 being included. I've sailed the G2P race over 15 times on monos and my Reynolds 33. I've also done the Tybee 500 - 7 times on F18's and N20's. Also add in two Texas 300's, on N20, and F20 (btw the texas 300 rhumb line takes us 30+ miles offshore at times.

The F18 is fully capable of doing the G2P, in fact it's a cake walk compared to the first two legs of the GT300, and the last leg of the T500.

I would be willing to put my money where my mouth is and do it on the F18 next year - officially or "unofficially"...

As I said above:

such things are determined at the GYA meetings, usually the Winter meeting in January. Please attend the GYA meeting and make the case for your class, make a presentation, just like Hodges said. Talk to DJ, he's the Multihull Chairman. Chat here isn't getting the GYA ear.

GYA is your standard run of the mill regional sailing authority...
CBYRA is my run of the mill regional sailing authority.

15 years ago we faced the same issue.... The solution, the beachcat sailors formed a handicap racing class and joined the YRA. We were separate from the then cruising multihull class CMA class. (turns out the absence of a head was the only requirement the beachcats could not find a work around for in racing under the CMA class rules)

Still... each OA running an event makes a decision on what classes they will offer a start to... Just because you are a member of the YRA does not let you force your way into an event.
Clearly there is a difference between the two types of vessels and common sense argues that the YRA and the OA manage each class differently.

Simple solution... organize the beach cats... go to the meeting and work it out.

No, but it should be getting the ears of the people who will be attending the meeting ;-)

It's not reasonable for me to travel 9 hours by car one way for that. Sounds like a neat race and I would be counted as tentative/likely (depending largely on what the Florida X00 race does for 2015)

Same here, I'll drive 10 hours to race. I'm not driving 10 hours to attend a meeting...

It's pretty simple, adopt the same safety requirements as the Tybee 500/GT 300 and invite the same boats. These standards are proven and available on line.

We are not asking for chase boats, ground support, or anything else that is not being provided to the mono fleet.

while it is undoubtedly true that a properly equipped and staffed F18 is capable of nothing short of transoceanic voyages (didn't they cross the Atlantic in a modded N20?), for the OA it will be a discussion regarding the boat's design criteria and the anticipated crew abilities.

Correct me (I can't find the official source for the ratings. I got this from ISAF), but are they as follows?

Cat 0 - Trans-oceanic races, including races which pass through areas in which air or sea temperatures are likely to be less than 5 degrees Celsius other than temporarily, where yachts must be completely self-sufficient for very extended
periods of time, capable of withstanding heavy storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies without the expectation of outside assistance.

Cat 1 - Races of long distance and well offshore, where yachts must be completely self-sufficient for extended periods of time, capable of withstanding heavy storms and prepared to meet serious emergencies without the expectation of outside assistance.

Cat 2 -Races of extended duration along or not far removed from shorelines or in large unprotected bays or lakes, where a high degree of self-sufficiency is required of the yachts.

Cat 3 - Races across open water, most of which is relatively protected or close to shorelines.

Cat 4 - Short races, close to shore in relatively warm or protected waters normally held in daylight.
____

I suspect that F18s and other beachcats are rated Cat 2, right?

If I were the OA, I would seek a definition of "Not Far Removed from Shorelines" to see if my projected course falls within that definition. Is the 3NM line considered the limit of "not far from shore"?

I'd probably want a summary of entrant's sailing experience in waters/conditions similar to what you'd expect for your regatta (and a strongly worded release). This would be primarily to discourage those without any prior coastal experience..

Do the safety rules defer to USCG equipment for near-shore vessels? Nav lights, safety equipment, dewatering, etc.

Perhaps building a cogent case that the F18s meet or exceed these "expectations" by the OA would ease their minds (and insurance underwriters) to allow for participation?

Is there really a shortage of distance races for beachcats or is it that we just don't like to be told no? If we do get a start for this race how many will keep attending once the new wears off?

Personally I'd much rather run in an "unofficial" class anyway, fight the power! :-)

Dave nails the key question...

Is this a one off race with a handful of boats?
Is this a race you want to do year in and year out?
How many distance racers do you actually have?

On the Chesapeake.... we are happy to pull of one event a year with CBYRA... not enough interest for more then one event.

Those categories were primarily written around monohulls...I suspect if you looked at the detailed requirements for each you would find beach cats come up short (for example, Cat 3 require a lifesling). In short, they are completely inapplicable to beach cat racing.

Now we are back to talking business.

When I took this case to the OA as part of solving the riddle for Mr. Hodges, we also asked for beach cat inclusion. There was misunderstanding between DPN scoring and PHRF scoring by the OA, who is always in the right. They had not made provisions at Southern for the sudden inclusion. We are preparing a proposal that will include "Ocean worthy" catamarans, including F 18s, N 17s, and the 20 footers.

Thanks to Mark, we have opened the door for a brief GYA history lesson. Bryant Murray, Brian Waters, and I founded the Northwest Florida Multihull Association, under NAMSA, because Stan Pape and others had already created the Greater New Orleans Multihull Association. Both of our efforts were in support of Open Class racing and the North American Multihull Association due to the Hobie Cat protocol that regulated the Hobie only events). NAMSA was led by a retired attorney, Richard Blanchard and his wife, Betty. The Honorable Richard Blanchard designed the current rating system for the US Sailing yardstick and handed that over to Darlene Hobock and US Sailing when he retired. That was nearly forty years ago...

In 1990 a dear friend and fellow sailor, John Oerting was commodore of the GYA and established the Challenge Cup and the GYA MHC during his watch. I served as the founding chairman until 2012 when my health went south. Mike Pedersen took the helm and kept us rolling.

BTW, the GYA is the largest YA in US Sailing and is working to become established as its own US Sailing Area, levered by the strength of voting numbers. Guys like Harry Chapman and Walter Chamberlain have established worthy programs US Sailing depends on today.

The Multihull Council has more lobbying power today, and we are doing much for the multihull sailors. Jay is pencil whipping me for some unknown reason due to his lack of involvement and out of dislike for me personally. His mis - information is now making matters worse, and I see no benefit in continuing this discussion under this thread title.

The next time I address this case will be when the MHC has drafted its proposal and we submit it to our fresh contacts at Southern Yacht Club. This will be done in late July/early August for presentation to their BoD during our Fall meeting. We do not have the time to wait until the winter meeting due to promotion, marketing, and final planning - earlier than later.

We had two ER cases from the heat this past weekend during the annual Challenge Cup, one seizure, and Benz Faget became weakened while prepping his boat and made a trip to the ER, himself. He was bleeding from the hand and pale as ghost just before they took him in from the yc.

I share this in forewarning: We are not as young as we once were; therefore, please pace yourselves and remain hydrated, especially on hot white beach sand. Seeking lawns and shade, when possible, would be the recommendation from our Safety Committee. Save the alcohol until the sun crosses the yardarm.

Catman, Did you work on the mini tonners, which appear on a comeback, or did you work with Charlie Morgan and the Heritage Series of one tonners?

Very cool stuff. We had a sharp little quarter tonner on Pensacola Bay in the forty - two boat shootout.

Bert,

You are not the GYA Multihull Council chairman. You are the secretary and when I had concerns about the safety equipment requirements for the GtoP race being excessive for the PHRF multihulls, I took my concerns to David Johnson who is the chairman. I asked him to address those concerns on my behalf as I felt that was the proper channel to go through. Unfortunately from my perspective, you created the "riddle" as your e-mails to the OA indicated that I needed to grow up and move on based on your belief that I needed to have my crew tethered to jacklines with each having their own EPIRB or PLB worn at all times. I ended up contacting the OA directly to get this resolved. He admitted to me that they had not even read the recommendations and had just checked off all the boxes without understanding the application of the guidelines. I will follow up with the OA to summarize how I think the GYA multihull safety recommendations should be applied (not mandated) for this event for PHRF multihulls. I also believe there needs to be a clear distinction between what the race organizers anticipated as a multihull class. It will be my recommendation to the OA that PHRF rated multihulls be defined as those over 20' in length with a permanent cabin for the shelter of the crew if needed and auxiliary power.

I am in no way opposed to beach cats sailing under a DPN handicap participating in this event but I believe a formal proposal to the OA on how that can be done needs to come from David Johnson. I would ask that you stand down and act only in an advisory role to David unless he asks you otherwise.

Respectfully Yours,

Bob Hodges

Bob, watch your e mail... I'll pick this up there.