Love Cat sailor family, the site needs better flow/look IMHO

Since i'm a noob catsailor at 5 yrs on a Hobie 16 and a Hobie 20 my input is very minimal, however, at 41 i'm a technology junkie.
I really try to visit this site but it's often outdated, scattered? and hard to navigate settings, pictures and events. At first glance it looks like 50 people sail a catamaran in the world and only 10-20 people of those are ever logged in at any given time of day or night that I've seen. This should be the #1 go to catsailor site of all time. The people here are 1st class pro's!
I'd gladly donate some PayPal funds to revitalize and modernize the site! Maybe i'm off base a bit...
I realize that cat sailing in the US has taken a huge plunge over the last 20 years but I'm new and Cat sailing and it's too much fun and getting better every year :)I get our fleet more active by about 3 cats per year local. Everyone has a great time. I'd be happy to promote ect.
Tim

I thought we've just hammered all the details out and worn out the internet. There's a big difference in the traffic here today, then when I signed up ten years ago.

First you have a bug in your avatar, Tim, which creates a wrong popup in all our visits to this thread.

Second, In my humble opinion, the great power and potency of this forum is the enormous span in the different member-nationalities.
They are literally all over the world and having each their different sailing spots with specific local problems and needs.


Ofcourse the US-group dominates in numbers this forum, but they are entitled to do so, looking at the size of their role in the real worldwide society.
Besides, the base of this forum is Rick and his business in the States.

I find this openforum/discussions thread a very special and unique worldwide connecting medium between catsailors all over the world. In which they all share the same love for their sport (and sometimes other matters!), despite how different they sometimes seem to be.

I'm totally satisfied with the flow and the look of this site!

P.S. I have difficulty with the way your are shaking with your wallet for revitalising this forum.
If there is really need for that, this forum can easily and united bring up funds for that.

Tim and Junkie both make good points.

What exists obviously functions reasonably well and indeed serves as a unique global forum on the subject. We that use it on a regular basis are probably satisfied with the look and feel. However, the bar has been raised on the rest of the internet, and new (younger) people that come to the site might not be as impressed as we might hope.

Since catsailing is an endeavor that seems to attract technically inclined people, I'd bet there are more than a few individuals with some level of web development experience, graphic design, etc. that could volunteer to assist Rick with a bit of sprucing up, etc.

I don't really think money needs to be part of the equation as far as any update is concerned. There are basic hosting costs, but they are there regardless of website appearance, function, and flow.

If we decide such an update is warranted, I for one would be happy to assist.

Speaking as the top poster here, these forums have definitely seen a reduction in activity. imho, it was the unchecked political threads that got very personal and ran a lot of people away.

imho - I think it's a combo of many factors:

1 biggest factor is simply the drop off in cat sailing and racing in the USA

2 the personal attacks on this thread from time to time (think wouter)

3 the beat down people get when they give wrong technical advice

4 political arguments - especially when they sneak into non political threads

5 the degradation of other people's political views that ostracize people (i.e. when Todd_Sails he calls people dumecrats and such) - this is completely out of line and there is no room for this in a sailing site. I would have kicked him out if I ran this forum



the data is not outdated - maybe the look and feel of it is, but there is no need to re-envent the wheel or spend 100's-1000s of hours chaning it to a newer looking format.

If you can't figure out how this site works... than ask for help

I have been a web developer for almost 20 years now and in my opinion - this is a sailing forum, i see no need to "pretty it up" or spend any time or money into adding un-needed features.

My 2 cents,

I agree that the site is a little dated, but I do not think that has much to do with a decline in use.

I also think that with the current traffic, I would prefer is consolidated into just one or 2 sections. Some of the other sections have no recent activity at all other than spam. Its mostly all the same group anyways lets lump all Tech together and generate more traffic and conversation on them.

If I posted an A-class question in that section now, I have my doubts on it being seen by more than 10% of the people here.

Thanks for the analysis, guys.
Rick

As a moderator and admin on several other forums....its not just catsailor forum that's seeing a 'decline' in use, its a global thing in which all forums are suffering from....

simply its "speed"

Facebook groups have taken over much of the daily chitchat and social aspect of most forums.
Its fast and its fun via FB, the humble forum however is slow and tedious in comparision.

Tech advise on the FB (facebook) sites is simply linked back to the forums and so little use other than a data base occurs



Purely an example.... lets say I get a PM from Rick, I wont receive that until I'm logged in which most likely is tomorrow, on FB however that message is instant and so is my reply.... the same applies to this thread, I wont see any reply's until I'm logged in next time, on FB however I'm instantly notified and can respond the same..

FB also allows a far easier form of "posting" and the addition of posting pics over a forum, any fool with a 'smartphone' can add a photo to their FB group, its always a suprise here and on other forums just how many people ask the usual "how do I post pics ?"



as for the site the way it is.....
When I first joined I though the layout was a disaster, almost a thrown together jumble of tacked on bits and pieces, but... having been here a while now I'm used to it and have a better 'feel" for the way I use the forum......
having said that, there are many sections I don't use at all or would have any need to even view.... the use of these sections seems to say much the same for many users here too, they are dead wood at the best

Kingy

IMO the sections are priceless I can go back as far as I like in any section and find posts, if it was all combined I would have to go through a lot of newer posts. I think it's fantastic that we have a newer member that is interested enough to want to contribute to the forum and wonder if he could have a crack at doing something.

Yea, I certainly wasn't trying to talk down the site but I do think it can be streamlined somehow, maybe with a fresh home page with the sub forums listed under drop down tabs ( i.e., F16, F18, Hobie Class, Open Class, General, Tech Help, Racing , Photo's and Classifieds ) A calendar on the front page that registered users can edit and add events to at any time. and maybe a Current top 20 posts so that if someone makes a post in ANY sub forum it auto "Bumps up" to top of the list by post date. Same with sub forums, newest posts go straight to the top of the list.
Even though i'm a hobie guy, I always enjoy reading what others have to say about all things sailing, racine, tuning, repairs etc etc.

I know web design is VERY time consuming and it wouldn't be feasible to ask someone to donate many dozens of hours of their time to get the work done to make things look amazing, but if someone popped up and said "Hey, i'll do the job for $xxx.00" i'd be more than willing to donate because yes, new, younger people are accustomed to a more flashy faster interface and i'm willing to invest in sailing gaining momentum again. Literally, for the price of a new game console, a PC and a few games someone can own a cat and get out on the water, mingle with friends that aren't virtual on FB and learn a skill!

Tim, I won't say that all younsters nowadays are wimps and pussy's.

But if you mean younsters<20 years, I suggest that they first start really cat-sailing before joining a forum about that.
The questions they encounter then will arise automatically. And at that moment a non flashy interface of the internetforum is the least important.

And the fact that they have to learn and find their way on this forum (it took me a year) is fine. Compared to my childhood these younsters are already so spoiled that I often wonder how they will end as human beings.
Yes, I know, I now sound like a grumbling old man (which I'm sometimes).

You can see in the signature of my posts that I had already on very young age a drive to the sea and sailing. There was no money in those days just after second world war. I had to start with a home-made wooden canoe and I had to figure it out all by myself.


You want to seduce them via a bling-bling site to catsailing; I would say the opposite. Nothing wrong with a threshold.

Maybe I'm another one of those old crumudgeons, but I like the format of the catsailor forums far better than some other groups (google, yahoo, etc) in terms of it's simplicity and ease of navigation.

Many cases it's much easier to find the information I'm looking for here. I'm sure it would be much better with subject lines being more specific (and possibly in the sub-forums rather than the general one).

It is fun to hop around the sub-forums to see what the various interest groups are talking about. Even though I've moved on to the three-legged variety (trimarans) I still find relevant information and discussions on tactics, sail/boat handling, repair/renovation, and general sailing conversations.

I do agree, however, that most of the "chat" has moved to other platforms (FB, twitter, instagram, etc) but I don't subscribe to those platforms so I'm sure I miss out on all the current stuff. This is most likely a GOOD thing, since I'd be willing to bet a lot of that chat contains off-topic stuff (like some of the political threads and cyber-yakkity threads here which I'm CERTAIN have soured many middling and top sailors on this site)..

What purpose then, in this discussion, should we aim for with a forum such as this? I agree it is a treasure-trove of historical and technical data.

As to the front page, it might benefit from a cleaner look but it's nice to have the news up front like that. I find today's news websites a little too cluttered as well (information overload to my luddite brain). Perhaps toss in some non-race oriented stuff (sailing with pets/kids, product reviews, new sailing grounds, hotel reviews, etc. often found in the newsprint version).

I'd make Jake one of the regular contributing writers. He's awesome at documenting stuff (like repairs and other technical stuff) and he's my go-to guy for graphics and advice when "the front fell off". Roland and Phill are great too with their projects.

I can't recall the guy (Isotope?) but some of those discussions on tactics and rules is HUGE-a. Throw that in some sort of "rules corner" and reference some of those ISAF decisions and noobs and experts alike would benefit.

The post-incident reviews (what happened, why, what could be done different) are good reads on why masts broke, boats collided, and other stuff when SHTF (* hits the fan). The personal drama stories that VOR and the other big events are focusing on are always drawing eyeballs and web-clicks, and there is plenty of that here in the forums.

wait, I just figured out how to post stuff....
Where is Wouter? We actually met him at a Spring Fever regatta many years back, I kinda miss the banter.

Lack of activity is certainly one issue. It ebs and flows with the seasons, but does seem much slower these days. I think spammers cause me the worst issues. Jump to active threads only to find the post is a spammer. We moderate all new users at the Hobie site... delays new posts sometimes, but a big help. Also... no political threads.

Regardless, I appreciate all that Rick and Mary have done to make this site available for our review, input, drivel, etc.

I'm sure it can't be easy... or cheap

Firstly, Welcome Tim!!!!! Having a fresh perspective is always a good thing.

I agree that there is a lot of good info here, and it is not easy to navigate.

I spend time on other forums (car repairs, etc.), which aren't necessarily flashier, but have far greater volume of users and data, and are far more compartmentalized, so finding the right info can be a challenge.

One thing that I think would help (personal/brand attacks) would be to have more moderators, who are empowered to stop the train before it gets completely off the tracks. No one wants to be censored, but sometimes people act like they really need it. This isn't SA, nor should it be.

Mike

I disagree, Flash/Bling of Americas cup sparked interest in Catamaran sailing. The same goes for a website like this. We don't know who passes by this site. This is 2015, it shouldn't take a year to learn how to navigate a website.

The status-quo isn't exactly booming.

for those of you working in "today's media" (FB, Twitter, etc), is that medium "searchable"?

Like if I recall someone has some diamond wire settings they posted a year ago, can I search FB and retrieve them?

Of the catsailors out there, how many (%) spend time online?

If 100%, where are they going for the most part?

Would a Catsailor mobile app be effective?

For Mobile... We installed TapaTalk on the Hobie forums and it does seem get a bunch of users. So many people are using mobile browsing. I do it at home too... I use a mini iPad a lot. I still prefer to browse forums on a desktop, but people needing tech support at the beach would love mobile friendly sites.

No - that is why forums are still valuable

considering the 1000's of registered users of this site hardly post anymore....

what would a mobile app do? This is a forum, not a chat service, or interactive game.

anyone can read the forums on their smart phone if they were sooo desperate to see the "current" thread...

Forums and Blogs were the "Social Media" before facebook changed the game.


IMHO in the USA - Catamaran sailing is a sport for the "older" generation - i don't see any young locals having any interest

Around here it's jetski's, SUP's, windboarding.

When we have races, it's largely 40 or 50 year olds or older

Our local shop just went out of business this month, When i go to the local hobie shop, it's all about kayaks and scuba gear.. the sailing department is in the back closet and dwindling and if i ever see a customer there, it's an older male looking for line or replacement parts for their legacy boats.

Our beach is 95% pre 1997 cats

8 years ago when i bought my 1985 TheMightyHobie18 there were 10-15 catamarans on the water every weekend. The past 2 years there have been 3 of us that are there regularly ... I am 47, the other guys are 53 and 73 years old. NO new / young sailors around here at all.

any "new" people i see sailing are in their 50's

Matt, i am curious, has there been any real bump in cat sales since the AC?

How have wildcat sales in the US been?

I think Cat sales are still pretty good. Hobie 16 is pretty strong... Wave, Getaway, T2... Wild Cat is not so hot. Seems the F18 deal was shaky... too many changes for the class to stay strong. Harder on the boat owners and players like us where we build in numbers. The Hobie Class was built on minimal changes.

The America's Cup spiked interest, but not sure it related to new sailors. Nothing huge anyway.

Don't be a dumbass.

Agreed.

America's Cup ect is making Racing catamarans look fun again. Look at all the youth racing classes sprouting up.... 16 foot spinnaker boats and now foiling catamarans. There's an opportunity to catch young peoples attention and gravitate them to the sport. Not talking about *bling. Does this site have too much bling? ( http://sailinganarchy.com/ )
Imagine something similar with America's cup pics, AC45 World series, the new Phantom and Race news and feeds from around the world ( BTW almost every major beach now has live streaming web cams )

I meet 10-20 guys every year ( ages 15-50 ) whilst launching or landing my cat that come running down the beach asking about sailing, is it difficult? Where are the resources? Is there a community? I want to learn about it! Its even easier when they're 5 -6 cats pulling up on a beach after sailing up and down the area while people camping and people out on motor boats have been staring you down for a few hours there IS an interest.
We just need every opportunity to turn someone merely interested, into a boat owner that has a blast feeling what we guys already know about. I'm not dissing the guys that started out cat sailing by lashing two canoes together six feet apart with bamboo and using their feet to steer upwind both ways haha. The site really is fine as is but it also took me a good while to dig around, figure out what a formula 16 trapseat was, formula 20? I have a non formula Hobie 20? is there anything on that!?? ect ect.

I sailed my Hobie 16, 3 weeks after buying it and had never been on a catamaran ever, but i knew the sailing basics. Now most warm weekends in the summer I take out a couple 17yo's for a 30 minute sail on my 16, 10 mph wind, show them how to launch, tack, jybe ( not flip )and make it back to the beach where we started and they're hooked! I let 'em group up and sail around the lake on my spare 16 for hours at a time. ( keeping an eye on them of course, life jackets mandatory ) There is a BIG interest of Younger sailors here..... The teenagers are getting tired of sitting on dads pontoon boat watching me fly a hull past them

Besides all the negative political spam I hear about there's got to be a way to inform and encourage new sailors without too many obstacles and hurdles.

BTW, have you guys seen the GC 32 catamarans??!! Watch the vids, holly cow!

Activity is clearly down.

Why? Probably many reasons.

Some of the most visible characters have moved on to different interests.
Others are probably out sailing.
Facebook and other new channels take a lot of traffic.

No worries though. Spring is soon here again and I can go sailing again.

Okay Tim, reading your inspired remarks about younsters on the beach and the pontoons, I conclude that you have a really interest in raising up the youth with regard to sailing.
You are not alone in this, there are in every sport innumerable youthtrainers, coaches and volunteers which all are to be praised for spending their (often) freetime.

Being a windsurfer of the first hour, I spend 40 years each weekend on the beach between and with younsters. I enjoyed that very much, and still do. Specially when I got older, it made me somehow feel younger.
I've seen two beach-generations growup. When I walk in the city, I met known grownup guys with kids and younsters on their hands which I've learned windsurfing in the waves when they themselves were still kids. But I've also seen that a part of them was getting hooked on harddrugs or commiting suicide or ending in prison.
(I was invited for the Duth Big Brother II for being the older mature man in the group, which I ofcourse refused)

The last ten years I spend half of my summertime in the beachpost of the local beachguard, actually living daily between the youth. And I've seen the upcoming of the socialmedia and the influence of it on them.

But I keep saying that all this has less to do with this forum and its interface. I've said before in another thread that I consider this forum as a hangout bar where catsailors have a sort of after-sport time, discussing, sharing experiences, showing pictures and videos and finally feeling globally connected to each other.

No moderation! I am opposed to censorship and I don't subscribe to the idea that one persons views/moral compass should drive an opinion board visited by a very diverse group. When someone gets out of line the community does a pretty good job of calling them out and the thread dies or a handful of posters go off and have their own little **** fight. It's pretty easy to figure out who posts something you want to read and who doesn't. I also want to know ahead of time who I should I avoid on the beach or a least what subject matter is off limits. Eye rolls can be involuntary if you're not prepared for the comment.

Pirate nailed it, forums are dead tech for news feeds. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram... is simply too easy to use and post real time. Posting from a smart phone to this forum is a bit of a hassle compared to modern social media sites. Have you ever tried to bring up the main page on your mobile device? The site needs a proper scrubbing, more isn't always better.

Leave the forum alone. Clean up the front page and make it relevant or do nothing and let the new tech replace the site.

For the uninitiated that looks like a personal attack. But Brogger is being funny and Brogger being funny is a rare moment indeed. His overly sunny disposition often gets in the way of his wit. It would have been a shame to have lost this moment in the name of moderation.

Oh, and I'll wade through 30 minutes of forum posts for little nuggets like Karls.

I'd heard that

Now... that certainly is a miss-quote!

Tim, I'd direct your attention to the "what have you done for sailing lately?" thread.

Lots of gems in there. The easiest is to just have interested folk hop on your boat for a quick ride or two. Then they can see for themselves it's not rocket science, it's fun, and you can send them on to your local club or dealer...

Speaking of dealers, I'm sure they'd be happy if you offered to take some of their curious customers out for a ride when you are available. With the exception of a few, many dealers don't have inventory sitting around rigged to sail.

Hope it helps.

Interesting questions......

& its a tough thing to figure out with any degree of accuracy due to the fact that people's usage changes.
When a "hot topic" is on the go and an individual is heavily involved in that topic then the time online can be almost non-stop....
I'd bet those that got tied up in the highly volatile political threads were most likely simply clicking the refresh tab every couple of minutes just waiting to vent their position yet again

On the other hand when its quiet then we all tend to get offline more and actually enjoy the real life



As to where people go.....
I frequent several other forums and I'm sure others do likewise be they sailing forums or forums related to the individuals other 'hobies', mine would be car and 4x4 forums for example.
Once the forums are dealt with then its time to run a closer eye over the FB groups purely incase I missed something



Mobile app for the forum ????
We did a trial on one of the car forums I run and we simply created a FB group with the same name as the forum, we then notified the members of the FB group and invited them to join.
Around 75% of active members joined up within a few days and the rest soon followed, there was however a few that flatly refused to join...... strangely enough they were the ones that had historically been the members that were the argumentative type in the 'political' style threads.
I guess that they didn't want their "real name" seen by those they'd pi$$ed off


The social side of the forum then moved rapidly to the FB group and the chitchat section on the forum died within weeks, for some that was bad and for others it was great.
The social side of the FB group improved member relationships dramatically to the point where social get-togethers have become an almost monthly event with a strong and increasing turnouts, something we struggled with when we only had the forum.
The tech side of the forum saw a drop off for around 8months but then recovered back to its usual rate of posts and now is heavily used on a daily basis

All up as an "experiment goes", we found the FB group IS an asset to the forum for the social side only..... when worked correctly the two work in harmony and are a compliment to each other.


would an app work here ???? perhaps if the front page was cleaned up a lot !
its too segmented at the moment and needs to be brought into much smaller groups that contain all the subsections ..... and that means a big overhaul for the forum

Mike knows me. He knows I'm just jerking his chain.

Yes and that was my point.

I'll be the first to admit that my sense of humor works better some days than others (especially online vs. face to face). I took Karl's retort as half-sarcastic (and remarkably contained, actually).

But, you have to admit that there have been some threads that have gone so haywire that I could see how people would go away, or newbies would bail, as others have pointed out above.

Moderated forums have their own drawbacks, but the behavior tends to be far more pleasant, aka community building.

Mike

So to Pirate's "social experiment", if you're on FB or Twitter now (is there some abbreviation for Twitter? Like Twit?) is there a sailing site/page you frequent often?

And for what purpose (social engagements, news/info, smack?)

Perhaps the instant media (FB, instagram, etc) is good for the "live" regatta stuff (and the debautchery at the parties) since people can follow almost real-time ( I recall the pain of waiting for updates on the forum as to who's leading which leg)?

But the forum for it's breadth and wealth of information... where folks have more time to develop thoughts, search, etc...?

Am I starting to get this right?

And have you seen Phill's boat building project in the F-boat sub forum? Holy crap that's cool...

I didn't believe that forums were on the way out but after a little research, it's apparently happening all over the network of tubes for a variety of reasons. On the other hand I can probably list several major contributors that have left these forums in a personal huff that likely spilled over from the political threads (which have nothing to do with the topic of this forum).

...And Phil desperately needs a blog.

just like people here often say "this isn't SA". other catsailing forums often refer to this site as "harsh, and full of arguments and egos"

I don't lose any sleep over people leaving because of fights in the political forum. If you go in there, choose to engage, and get upset enough to leave because you can't handle the opposition; well, that says more about you than the site. Personally, I just don't go into those threads because I have less than zero interest in those discussions on a sailing site.

I disagree that Twitter is faster than forum updates for live mark roundings. Maybe the notification is slower on the receiving end, but I've posted live updates from the water, and it's pretty instantaneous.

Mike

The ignore button is the best feature of this site... works great...

as far as twitter - (which i don't use) it is defiantly easier to get twit feeds on a smart phone for updates

but it is not used by most sailors over 30 years old (i would be the farm that is correct)

this site, and all other forums are suffering from being divided with all the new social media options

I dont think it's the end of the world
this forum and others are still valuable to the people who a. are looking for info b. are accustomed to this system and not interested in updating their method of getting info....

such is life...

CRAM has had success in implementing a Facebook group (link here ). We use it to generate interest for events, post pictures, results, etc., some light Q&A, smack-talk, etc. However, it would never be able to match the coverage of catsailor's technical threads. Its simply not set up to hold (and/or organize) that type of information as a long term matter of record.

FB is complementary to, but not a replacement of a website and forum.

Mike, you know you're making an argument against moderation, right? :-) If someone gets insulted and leaves over something said on a forum (by a nit wit) you know they are going to get insulted and leave over something not forum related anyway.

Yes forums are great technical resources... for everything! But is that really the future we want for this site? Just another tech forum? Make the site relevant, timely and entertaining that's what will keep this site vibrant and alive. It will take effort but when you depend on content for a revenue stream you typically have to invest in the content to maintain the demand. Stale content does not generate interest.

I won't visit the SA forums but I will scan the front page, especially when something interesting appears on my FB news feed.

I'm 52 and I use twitter. It's not great but it goes right to my mobile device so... You want the kiddies... spoon feed them that's the world we live in now.

So everyone on that forum agrees with everything said on the forum? Or is it so heavily moderated that any contrary opinion is flushed? And no ego's? Please direct me to this forum of rainbows and unicorns.

I was referring to the TheBeachcats.com, I never said it was full of rainbows and unicorn farts.

there are certainly a differences of opinion, and P.M. and i have had several disagreements on it.

but that is very uncommon on that site.

When I started frequenting this site, the attacks on wouter were a bit shocking (granted i was not around to see the precursor of what caused it). And i had my share of run ins with Todd (not sure which todd, but the one who was the self proclaimed "enforcer of the n20 fleet).

this was a huge turn off, and put me into defensive mode that i have never felt or needed on the other site...

I am saying this as "matter of fact" = not that one is better than the other... to be honest the fighting was interesting and even compelling at times.

heck, at times i was very bored at work and at the time wouldn't mind rattling a few cages and engage in strong dialogue to avoid doing actual work (my boss wasn't so happy with this fact i am sure)

That other site has less traffic/threads and is also very slow, esp this time of year

But i will say with no hesitation, you can/will get your head chopped off on this site much harsher than you will on that site.

there is also a big difference in skill level/experience on this site compared to that one. This site is full of very experienced sailors, engineers, and strong opinions as what is the correct way to do things. the other site is filled with many more newbies and that may have something to do with the strong opinions on this site.

So, as a matter of curiosity, what needs to be "cleaned up" on the front page? I like that it loads fast. It has some advertising, which makes sense, and all the links down the side.
The sailing anarchy front page takes forever to load, and has mostly monohull articles which i am not interested in. Their multihull forum has bits of news from time to time, some arguments, and a few good discussions.
Controversy makes for interesting reading sometimes and get the clicks.
Off the beach catsailing is a very small niche these days and not very popular in the usa. Most of the hot sailors are on boards or moths it seems. Pretty sad the us is having such a hard time qualifying for the olympics on the 17s...

SA has become a mockery of itself. When there isn't enough internal fighting, the hosts try to stir discourse with their "coverage." Check that, that's not actually a new development...

One thing that's easy to forget during heated discussions, and certainly isn't transparent, is that even when we vehemently disagree over certain points, most of us have the best interest of cat sailing at heart, and a ton of us invest a lot of time to make the sport work. It's sad if our comments/ fighting hide that.

Mike

You can't separate politics from life. You can be oblivious.

Sailing Anarchy is a box of kittens compared to what it was even five years ago.

As far as moderation goes, I much prefer the no moderation/censorship template. I got booted from a woodworking forum a few years ago. That forum was aggressively, and severely moderated. If you said something they didn't like, it would be changed or deleted. That pissed me off to no end, and I called a moderator out on being a jackass, and called him a jack booted nazi, and that got me flicked. Which is sad, because that place was an endless stream of entertainment for me. Nothing more fun than watching people screw up wood. Settle down Ding, you're doing fine. I'm on another woodworking forum, and they've got a little different style. They'll ask you to change something if they don't want it there. I mentioned something about cabinet shops going "tits up" in a thread one day. I got a PM asking me to change it. I asked why. They mod said it was inappropriate. I told him to get his head out of his butt. Tits up is a farm kid term. When a cow dies it falls over, the gasses from digestion don't escape since it's obviously not moving anything through the system, it balloons up, rolls on it's back, and goes tits up.

About twenty years ago, the internet started popping up in a useable by the masses form. About ten years ago forums started getting pretty popular for just about any subject. You collect hermaphrodite, miss stitched, factory screwed up Beanie Babies? I'd bet there's a forum or sub forum that fits your fetish. Up pops a sailing forum at some point. We spend ten years catching up on all the things that have developed over the last three thousand years of sailing. Our technology doesn't move very quickly, so I think we've effectively ran out of subjects. Being this is a male dominated sport, there will also be posturing, there will be chest beating, and there will be who's got the largest dick threads. That's nature of the beast. Don't like it? Pull up your panties, and leave. Mike and I discussed some of this when I was in Rhode Island this past summer. And anyone who knows me in person, (which a lot of you do), I type like I speak. People ask, "what about the kids"? Screw the kids. The little darlings are going to be railing coke off a hookers butt before you know it. A sailing forum and its subsequent influence is the least of your troubles as a parent

The other factor is sailing is a small, niche sport or hobby. Compared to just about anything else you could be doing with your day, sailing is way the F down the list for pretty much everyone. It's complicated, it's expensive, it's really f-ing hard to do well, and it's a massive time suck. So enter the teensy, tiny world of beach cat sailing. We are a minority, within a minority. You get it, I get it, even some people named Todd get it. But this isn't for everybody. What could make it more popular? Hell if I know. Cheaper boats? More exposure? You can't get much more exposed than what the last AC gave us. But then people inevitably ask how much one of those cost, and throw up a little bit when they realize that most people don't have the large half of a billion dollars to play in that sandbox. Cat sailing is fricking voodoo when it comes to most of the leaner crowd as well. I have on numerous occasions when setting up or tearing down the boat at one of the places I launch from, which is next to a yacht club, been asked by some fat dopy white dude stumbling over from the yacht club; "What do you do when it turtles?" My responses vary from "scuttle the boat and call the insurance company", to "I just pull it up?"


Oh, and if you don't like a thread, don't click on it jackass, it's not that ding dong difficult. There's plenty of topics that I don't care a bit for, I don't click on them. It ain't rocket surgery.

Get rid of all the separate links for the forums, the main link is all that's needed. Get rid of every link that doesn't work, if nobody has complained about the link being broken it isn't being used.

The links would be as follows:

Forum
Schedule
Preregistration
Classifieds
Online Store

Basically get rid of the links on the left and just use the menu bar across the top.

Completely overhaul the news blog. Increase the content, and change how it is presented. I like the USF18 and Endurance Series site. The site looks very dated and shows it was born in the 90's.

First off, I really like this forum. Rick, I don't really know you other than from this site but it is evident that you are a passionate cat sailor and I am very grateful to have this forum as a source for advice and friendship. I am sure it takes up a lot of your free time and I hope I speak for everyone when I say that I am grateful for it.

I personally don't see anything wrong with this site. It is easy enough to navigate and search. I've gotten a lot of great advice and met a lot of great people through this site. Without this forum and the Hobie forum, I might still be sailing around a little lake with my half of my boat rigged backwards. I won't even share how I hooked up my main sheet on my "maiden" voyage. It was far from correct.

I also agree with others that this site does not need moderation. We are all adults here. However, I would ask that people think hard about the impact that political discussions on this forum have on future and potential sailors. Think about how many young sailors troll this site. I know I spent several weeks just looking over the forums before I ever made my first post. What impression does it give a new sailor who is on the fence about participating in regattas when they come here and see us bashing each other for our political beliefs? I would be concerned that we scaring away future participants because of how our political attitudes are voiced here. If I were a newbie, I may be worried that I'd end up having to defend my political beliefs or spend a weekend of uncomfortable introversion at an event when I was expecting to have fun. I'd rather talk sailing...anytime. The political talk on this forum has gotten a little out of hand IMO.

I'll say that sometimes people need to put on their big boy pants. If someone gets involved in a discussion then they need to be able to take the heat if and when it comes. Again, I just worry about the impression it gives to potential sailors and participants.

As to the lack of participation on the forums and at events... that's a big one. I consider myself to be of the younger age bracket here at 31. I've tried my damnedest to talk my buddies into buying cheap cats, but they just won't bite. The passion for this kind of sport has to already be there. Sailing is a huge commitment compared with the multitude of past-time activities the youth of today has to choose from. I think continuing to publicize sailing events like the AC needs to continue and we have to keep fighting for our sport.

The tanking economy over the last several years probably hasn't helped either. I've seen several golf courses close lately around my area. I think that is also a testament to a struggling middle class and a reluctance to invest in expensive leisure activities.

Kind of a long ramble to say that I like the forum the way it is. I just think the veterans of this forum need to be more mindful of the impression that they may be sending to the folks that are on the fence about becoming a part of the cat sailor family.

It's always the Nazis, isn't it Karl?

I wouldn't say I'm fully in the "free speech/willy" camp, because I don't know if I'd be all for the kind of vitriol, porn, and junk I see in other areas of the "light web" (I'm not even going to the dark web).

BUT, what I do not agree with is the "moderator" flicking a poster or conversation that produces honest criticism of, say, a particular product. There is an F-boat forum that flicked the friggin builder when he made some comments regarding deviations from his plans.

Is politics going to make me a better sailor? No.

Does it possibly affect WHERE I could sail (as in local municpalities closing beaches, etc.)? sure

Would written insults hurled at others benefit my sailing? No, but well written digs entertain the crap out of me...

so the consensus is to leave the forum as it is, but really focus on making that front page flashy and functional, right?

Agree, seems a bit heavy handed to me. Even if the designer got uppity doesn't seem like a valid reason to flick him.



Totally agree, a well crafted and timed insult should always be appreciated. Even if the insult is directed at me I can appreciate it, only after I've had a good cry of course.

Exactly the reason why it should have it's own forum, so that those that don't want to see it, etc., don't have to.

Yea, those Todd's, those hyperintelligent types!, oh wait, I don't get it- Ba ha ha

You guys nailed it...............
Smooth glossy uncluttered front page, forums condensed and perhaps a check box in the lower corner for "notify me when a new post is posted" to a thread your involved in.

The SA reference was merely for the look. Has the really cool column of vids of current events and races right down the middle. There's plenty of beachcat action captured on video to do the same, albeit MOST of the cat action is in Europe. There is currently as we speak a TON of innovation, design and engineering going into the next generation of catamarans, they're damn near airplanes now. Although very few can afford cutting edge catamarans, the catamarans over the last 30 years will soon become dirt cheap as the pro's want to upgrade leaving lower and mid level sailors a chance to snap up a 10 year newer boat while flipping their current boat to someone under them, ect ect.

http://vimeo.com/83829320

Currently I see great entry level catamarans, turn key , nothing needed with trailer for $1000 - $2000. Various brands.
Lots of options and newer catamarans for $3k - $6k Race ready and clean. How much does golf gear, hunting gear, fishing gear run? You cant do ANY of that with your woman! Hahahaha

Many people I chat with at the lake are blown away by how cheap I tell them they can get a decent boat for.

Tim, thanks for taking the time and showing the interest to help our sport and this site. As someone who only checks in about every 6 months, its always great fun to see what's going on now. Based on how many responses your thread has generated in the last few days, and from a variety of posters, I can't say I am seeing a huge drop-off, but I leave that to the regulars to assess.

What's great about this site, is I feel it is the heart and soul of Rick and Mary. They have made sailing their life, and this site is their family history, and they have invited us all in to be a part of their family. Too much change and perhaps some of that would be lost.

That said, I do have an engineering background, and spend some time with website design, and do understand your desire to modernize the forum.

What is really happening is a much larger shift of how we all communicate. From the printing press and bibles and then magazines and newspapers, it was about 400 years that print media really dominated. Then Radio for say 20-30 years (and still some) and then TV for the past 60. Just in the last 15 years, has the internet slowly taken over, and social media in the last 5, to the point where many newspapers and magazines have gone/are going under, bookstores have closed, TV has diversified to cable, and now to internet, and most people spend more time on mobile devices than with TV or books or print or even desk top and laptop computers. Incredible, massive, rapid change if you look at the whole picture.

Then look at facebook winning over myspace. The rise of twitter. (Jay I think it would be #twit . Instagram, etc. But i promise u in 2 years, while these will likely still dominate, new ones will arise, and perhaps eclipse these. Google, facebook, Apple alone have enough cash to buy EVERY SINGLE OTHER MEDIA COMPANY IN THE WORLD. Apple could buy ABC, NBC, CBS, and FOX if they so wanted. Pretty crazy.

So should we radically change our known brand to chase down the latest fad? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. But I tend to like the idea of a cleanup more than a major alteration, and of course no moderation (we all need to respect each other of course).

What I do know is this site exists because Rick and Mary come to work each day and keep it going. While the rest of us may get wild hairs about contributing to the site/sport/whatever, realistically, it takes a dedicated leader, and that is Rick, and if he wants us to help him update it, then I think we will step up and do so. If he is happy with it, then I think it stands as his until he asks someone else to help out. If someone else does come in to help out, they/we will need to be very dedicated to see the project thru to completion. The last thing we would need is a half baked renovation.

Well I think I just spend a page saying nothing really, but that's part of the fun of this site. Tim, maybe you should PM Rick and see how he feels about it all.

later

Larry

P.S. Everyone stop playing on your computers and please come sail in the Florida 300 this year, thank you.

So, as far as I have followed this (meta-)discussion about the forum itself correctly, nothing really will be changed.
I'm very pleased with that; a sigh of relief here on the other side of the ocean.

P.S.
I must say that I enjoyed Karl's honest outburst in his latest post very much. It was exiting to read and in fact epic....


These posts are for me the currants in the porridge.

Lots of great input in this thread if nothing else it got some people to start posting a bit more, I see Wouters name mentioned a bit, to follow what happened you really need to read most of the junior sailing thread, in particular trying to get the F12 going, he delayed writing the box rules by a very long time when we had people waiting to build boats, then he claimed ownership of all things F12 globally, then when nobody agreed had hissy fit and left

Not too crazy... just business as usual for the BORG

Great to see you checking in Larry. Good luck on the 300+

And yes, Karl, you beachcatters are a minority of a minority. As a third-legger, I guess I'm a
minority of a
minority of a
minority

or m-cubed I guess?

M^3?

And yes, those Nazis are always to blame. Indiana Jones taught me that as a child. In Diana Jones taught me other useful things though.

For some reason I can't visit this site at all on my iPhone 6. Anyone else tried it?

Finally, after all these years, man has created the first truly "smart" phone!

...sent from my dumb old Android...

Mike

Yes Tim - same issue here. I get an "AccessDenied" error.

I think it's recognizing the mobile browser, prepending the m. at the beginning as in http://m.catsailor.com/ and the site is probably not set up to handle a separate mobile version.

Going directly to the forum URL does work.

Bingo! Looks like there was an attempt to make the front page smart phone aware but it was either not tested or didn't work right away and the developer bailed. If you want to get to the forum from your mobile device use http://catsailor.com/forums, preregistration: http://catsailor.com/registration

Kind of a pain but you can get there. The site needs a little love.

Dropdown menu ->Request Desktop Version

will fix issue on mobile chrome.