Spinaker sheet, knot placement options....

Hi all,
I read the 2008 thread about spin sheets I think started by Karl.

Jumping ahead to my question,
I'm usin a spin sheet, with a short pigtail spliced into the middle of it- and the pigtail goes to the spin clew via a small bowline.

This method makes two ends of the spin sheet on the tramp after feeding thru the spin blocks on port and starboard.

This is the system I'm using for the sheeting system on my kite.

For those that have the ends run back like this, what do you do with them?
At first- I was taping them end to end so it would go thru a large block near the back of the tramp.

MOre recently, I'm tying each end to a bungee the runs in front of my rear crossbar at the back, from beam to beam.
This has worked OK also.

YOur systems on this?

TIA

We use this system as well. I have spliced eyes in the ends of the sheet and use a soft shackle to connect the ends together. I've tried to run them through a large plastic ring attached to a bunji at the back of the trampoline to keep them clear but my crew prefers to have the spin sheets loose on the trampoline. He manages them well and they are rarely a problem so I don't interfere.

I think the length of the spin sheet is key here, though. If they're too long, they'll wash off the side. They need to be JUST long enough that the crew can get his foot in the back footstrap while sheeting the kite at a deep angle...no longer.

I run a similar system, works great. Shock cord takes up the extra for me.

I think Ted's argument against the bunji is that our spin sheet doesn't have any slack in it and the bunji pulls things at angles and interferes with his sheeting from the trapeze. The bunji would probably be fine if the sheet were longer (and then we would need that bunji more).

I recently switched to the same system that Ding uses ... with bujis pulling the loose ends toward the edges of the trampoline. That bunji actually runs through a double block at the end of my tack line so the bunjis go loose when the kite tack is pulled out. Ted is not a fan of that system so we're going back to the previous way where he just manages the loose sheet.

We have a small ring on both sides of the trampoline (1cm diameter) about 60 cm from the rear beam (4th or 5th screw on the Nacra).
There is a piece of bungee that goes from side to side via the dolphin string (to keep it from dragging).
On both sides of the bungee there is a loop where a knot on the spinsheet attaches to, this way you have separate sheets which is much easier for the crew.

Thanks Jake, Tony, Bacho;

Jake, my tack line now has a bungee the pulls slock out of the tack line when it's doused and the other end is attached to a ring the halyard goes thru.

Tony,
Dolphin String?

Mike and Tripp were gracious enough to share several details of their rigging on their previous F18. Some of it pertains to this discussion.

I sail one of their old boats. My tack line pulls slack out of my spin sheet by way of a couple of rings at the back of the trampoline attached to that bunji on the tack line. When the spin is up, the bunji is slack and it lets the spin halyard free. When the spin goes down and the tack line pulls forward, it tensions the bunji and pulls the halyard back to the rear of the trampoline at two points.

http://www.microwindracing.com/boat.html

I just tie the ends together with a fisherman's knot.

I don't mind loose sheet on the tramp. I like the crew throwing it back to the skipper, so once the kite is hoisted, the slack in the sheet is being taken up so it's that much close to be sheeted correctly. But, I don't have much on the tramp for lines anyways. Most everything is underneath.

We tie the loose ends together with a fisherman's knot as well. We also have the ring from the clew that our retrieval line goes through that was discussed in another thread. That pulls the clew deep into the snuffer and eliminates a lot of the spin sheet slack. After each race I also gather up the excess sheet and stick it under the starboard hiking strap- keeps it nice and neat for one beat at least!

I sailed Tony's boat (I think) with the separate sheets in Thailand. Personally, I much prefer the continuous sheet.

Thanks again Jake.
Yes, that is a great site with decent pictures, I have that page bookmarked and refer to it.
When I watched our CRAW video form 2010 F18's in Racine- It seemed as though they put some bungees to the tack line of the spin, so when it 's hoisted- the lines are slack, and when it's snuffed, it tensions the bungee which goes to the halyard and I think the spin sheets are on it also? NOt sure have ot watch it again.

And thanks Jeff and Karl for your input as well.

Todd

When we first got our boat we ran them through a bungee at the back of the tramp but quickly got ride of it. I personally prefer simplicity when it comes to the sheets.

This is a rule I apply with everything on my boat. I've been burned too many times by trying to get too cute with a system. If something gets sideways I want to be able to see and fix it quickly on the water.

does "Cute" = fast?

Not in my opinion, it does look sexy on the beach though and can mess with peoples head and that does have value.

sort of like your spandex... the messing with people's heads part at least.

That spandex was indeed fast.

And everyone is wearing it!

Picture of our spinsheet setup: http://1drv.ms/1OJTzNh

Off topic: I took some very cool pics of some cats overhere in Carnac, France:
http://1drv.ms/1OJU6z0

Tony, love the new DG Press graphics. Best of luck in Carnac!

I run mine continuous and tie a figure 8 knot through the clue of the spinnaker. If I'm doing a long distance race I add a set of blocks at the clue and just tie a figure 8 stopper knot through that for the 221 set up . I noticed none of you guys are running continuous Spinniker sheet like this. Can you tell me why. I have not had mine foul, ever. I like continuous systems for obvious reasons. I run a bungee from side to side on my rear being with a single block on my Spinniker sheet runs through that for take up. At the other end on the clue I have a strop that pulls the sheets into the sock when I take the kite down. Is there a reason that you guys are doing it differently is it just that you don't like the spinnaker sheet running across the tramp or is it just more convenient for you to have the sheet placed where it's easier for the crew to grab it ? It does look very neat and convenient in the picture that I think Jake put up I am assuming that the end of the sheet goes to a bungee under the tramp?
I guess what it does is makes it so that the crew does not have to go lee to grab the sheet correct?

Thanks Tony for the first picture, that's how I"m going to run it in this years GT300.

I think so Azcat, and I reallyt like your avatar! She still around?

21 years, I think.

[quote=Tony_F18]Picture of our spinsheet setup: http://1drv.ms/1OJTzNh

Off topic: I took some very cool pics of some cats overhere in Carnac, France:
http://1drv.ms/1OJU6z0 [/quot
Tony, what is the single block on the bungee at the skipper position, stb hull , white line exiting?

Also, if you're not using a take up strop on your clue to get rid of your spinnaker sheets, you're ending up with a lot of sheet on the tramp when the kite is snuffed, correct?

Also, lets say you're doing a distance race and basically on one tack/jibe for many hours and you wanted to run the sheet from the clew, theu a block on the clew and have the end attached to the shroud (cleat, ball and loop, etc.) to make it much easier to work the sheet:

In the case of the spin sheet being run with:
A pagtail burried in the middle of the line tied to the spin clew and the ends tied off or tied together at the back:

That method kinda make it impossible to so that.

Any other options? I may go with a block on the clew on the port sheet side/so when sheeting on a starboard my crew has a 2:1 on the spin sheet.

If you taper the ends of the spin sheet, the knot(s) at the clew won't interfere with anything... and still leave you the option of the 2:1 setup mentioned earlier.

Can you get an auto-ratchet block with becket arrangement? That would give you an anchor point for the 2:1 when needed.

That's the spinnaker's tackline.
It goes from under the front beam to a block at the shrouds, through the block you referenced and back to the shroud where its spliced to the block's center.
Normally tack lines are 1:1 but this one's 1:2 so I only have to pull halve the length, the line is thinner than standard to not add any extra friction while pulling.

Got it

Okay Tony, so your Spinnaker sheets dead and on top of the tramp but a small attached line goes through a turning block, under the tramp and is connected to the other side. On the way across the bottom of the trap you have a block on a bungee pulling the slack out of that line is that correct? Or is that just a bungee attached to the end of your Spinniker sheet? I have attempted this in the past and didn't have good results so I took it off . But I did not taper the spinnaker sheet either, that would actually be a very good idea . Has anyone used this set up in conjunction with the strap on the clue of the kite that gets rid of the spin sheets pulling them into the sock?