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2015 Nacra 17 Worlds

Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 06/28/15 12:33 PM

First day of racing for the 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds is Sunday July 5th. This is a huge event for the US teams for a couple of reasons.

1. The US still needs to gain a country berth for Rio

-Ideally, we would gain one of the three berths available in Aarhus. If not, lets hope Canada, Aruba, and Puerto Rico all qualify!


2. The results of these worlds have major implications on the US selection process for Rio.

- The selection events for the US team are the 2016 Miami World Cup and 2016 Worlds in Clearwater.

- Entries for Miami will likely be limited, and the results of the 2015 Worlds determine who gets spots at Miami. No Miami, no Olympics.

From the selection document:

"2. For the 2016 ISAF Sailing World Cup Miami, if limited entries are
enforced, MNAs will be awarded a certain number of spots according
to a system described in the Notice of Race. US Sailing will award
entries to its athletes using the following criteria:

The first two entries in each class will be awarded to the two highest
finishing athletes or teams at the 2015 class world championships.

If a third entry is available in a class, it will be awarded to the highest
finishing athletes or teams at the 2016 MLK Weekend Regattas at
Coconut Grove Sailing Center (470, 49er, 49er FX, Nacra 17, RS:X) and
Lauderdale Yacht Club (Finn, Laser, Laser Radial) January 16-18, 2016.

If a fourth entry is available in a class, it will be awarded to the third
highest finishing athletes or teams at the 2015 class world
championships...."

US entries:
Mark Mendelblatt United States USA027 Carolina Mendelblatt
Sarah Newberry United States USA278 Matthew Whitehead
Michael Easton United States USA 234 Katie Pettibone
Steph Hudson United States USA123 Evan Aras
John Casey United States USA204 Kristen Lane
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/06/15 02:42 PM

First day of racing cancelled due to no wind.

Postponement this morning because of too much wind, but it sounds like they are racing now.

Results will be here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/438966762/Nacra17%20-%20Results.htm
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/06/15 03:47 PM

It is interesting to see the number of teams that decided to stay on the beach. It's a gamble to burn your throws early. Mike and Katie are posting very consistent numbers.
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/06/15 04:35 PM

I think the results are a bit misleading currently. There are two fleets- yellow and blue. Yellow fleet have finished two races (Easton is yellow), now blue is on the water (Newberry) but have only finished one race, and have a DNC for race two. It would be nice if they didn't use DNC for that purpose!
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/06/15 04:37 PM

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/06/15 05:35 PM

Results are up for today: two races each fleet (they may do a third, not sure): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/438966762/Nacra17%20-%20Results.htm

As a reminder, the countries that are qualified: 1 FRA , 2 ARG , 3 AUS ,4 ITA, 5 NZL, 6 SUI, 7 GBR, 8 DEN, 9 AUT, 10 NED

Three spots available at 2015 worlds:
1. ARU
2. GER
3. ESP
4. GRE
5. USA (Newberry)
6. PUR (Figueroa)
7. URU
8. RUS
9. CAN (Ramsay)
10. NOR
Posted By: Tony_F18

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/06/15 10:40 PM

Bad day for JC :-(

[Linked Image]
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 01:25 AM

That's not fast (or cheap)...

-Captain Obvious
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 02:43 AM

That's weird, a broken N17 mast...
Posted By: Jake

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
That's not fast (or cheap)...

-Captain Obvious


Well, technically speaking...it could be fast depending on how anxious the rib driver is. But that does indeed have a very high suck factor.
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
That's weird, a broken N17 mast...


Oh come on Mark you can do better than that? Oh sh1t Karl said that, damn marriage has made you soft, are you getting fat too?
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
are you getting fat too?


eat what you want... sail bigger boats.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 01:53 PM

Has anyone done the statistics on which team breaks more masts (per regatta, hour of sailing, etc.)? Just from reading here, JC seems to have gone through quite a few. Could technique play a role? I've heard that reasoning used for masts breaking on other designs.

Mike
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek

As a reminder, the countries that are qualified: 1 FRA , 2 ARG , 3 AUS ,4 ITA, 5 NZL, 6 SUI, 7 GBR, 8 DEN, 9 AUT, 10 NED

Three spots available at 2015 worlds:
1. ARU
2. GER
3. ESP
4. GRE
5. USA (Newberry)
6. PUR (Figueroa)
7. URU
8. RUS
9. CAN (Ramsay)
10. NOR


Results for the first 2.5 races from today are up. ARU and GER are going to be extremely difficult to catch, so it's really a race against Iker (and the rest of the teams on the fence) for the final spot. Talk about a daunting task!

Mike

Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 02:58 PM

do you get redress for an equipment failure (like the broken mast)?
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
do you get redress for an equipment failure (like the broken mast)?


I've only seen that card successfully played when the equipment was provided. That's not the case here and yikes what a can of worms if you're allowed redress for equipment issues.

Imagine the situation where you're having a bad race so you break your stick because you have another and redress gives you a better score.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 03:26 PM

Redress is never given for equipment failure in BYOB events, RRS does not allow for that (think: whose fault is it).

While redress is allowed for damage caused by other boats in BYOB events, I've seen that disallowed at a Worlds. IJ basically decided that the damage wasn't enough to make the boat unraceable.

Redress can be given for equipment failures in a BYOB event, but you have to prove that you didn't cause it (no fault of your own clause). I've seen this disallowed as well.

Mike

Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 03:28 PM

nope... no redress for breaking your mast.

Now ISAF can notice that mast breakage and they have decided that this should not be part of the competition and request the class under take a fix. That is how the Torando class moved to carbon sticks from alu extrusions. Marstrom designed and built the stick to be close to the alu extrusion. (bullet proof stick)

Is that an option here... oh wait. ISAF already had a hand in designing these masts to fix the nacra ones that broke all of the time..

no worries... they will get it right on the third try!
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 05:16 PM

Update after 5 races:

As a reminder, the countries that are qualified: 1 FRA , 2 ARG , 3 AUS ,4 ITA, 5 NZL, 6 SUI, 7 GBR, 8 DEN, 9 AUT, 10 NED

Three spots available at 2015 worlds:
1. GER (7th)
2. ARU (11th)
3. ESP (20th)
5. PUR (Figueroa, 23rd)
6. GRE (24th)
7. USA (Newberry, 25th)
8. CAN (Ramsay, 29)
9. RUS (30)
10. URU (32)

As far as the masts, I think a lot of it comes down to skill level and time in the boat. You just don't see breakages from the top teams. If you look at the top of the fleet it is the same teams, no matter the wind and sea state.

Note: edited my post because previous comment came across poorly and I certainly mean to disrespect to anyone who broke a mast
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek

MOP to BOP teams ??


decode please.
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 06:21 PM

Gold/Silver fleet splits are posted. Sarah and Mike in Gold, all other US teams in Silver. Tough break for Steph/Evan.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/438966762/Nacra17%20-%20Flight_assignments.htm
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 07:38 PM

Mid to back of pack?

Besson has really been the guy to beat all along. Showing no mercy here as well.

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 07:39 PM

somebody tell JC he's got to fill out his sailor profile on the ISAF website:
JC's Bio Page
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 07:45 PM

Steph & Evan missed gold fleet by a tie break!? While that's tough to take, I'd say they have a lot to be proud of, seeing as they're new to the boat and started late in the cycle.

Mike
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
somebody tell JC he's got to fill out his sailor profile on the ISAF website:
JC's Bio Page


You can tell him, I'm sure there's nothing lower on his priority list right now. Let us know how that works out...

Mike
Posted By: waterbug_wpb

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 07:57 PM

smile You bet...
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/07/15 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek

MOP to BOP teams ??


decode please.


Edited previous post
Posted By: Team_Cat_Fever

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by brucat
Has anyone done the statistics on which team breaks more masts (per regatta, hour of sailing, etc.)? Just from reading here, JC seems to have gone through quite a few. Could technique play a role? I've heard that reasoning used for masts breaking on other designs.

Mike


If I was to guess I'd say he's getting more speed out of the rig by sailing it in a fashion that is less/not forgiving of error, or possibly just not forgiving ...period. Such as lot's of downhaul and rotated back, downwind. Just a guess with no info to validate it, except personal experience.
How's that for a fvckin' PC disclaimer?
They're Hall spars now, not exactly a piece of crap.Everything has it's limits and JC isn't exactly the "throttle back" type.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 03:01 PM

Does anyone have a link to results from today?

Mike
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 03:55 PM

It doesn't look like the results are posted yet. You can get to the host site here: http://www.sailing-aarhus.dk/oc2015/nacra-17/
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 04:02 PM

Silver fleet cancelled for today

Gold fleet no start before 6pm local
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 04:03 PM

Some good race updates here. The news banner updates frequently.
http://www.nacra17class.com/
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 05:09 PM

Gold fleet heading out for a 7pm start (twitter)
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 08:45 PM

Update after 3 gold races:

As a reminder, the countries that are qualified: 1 FRA , 2 ARG , 3 AUS ,4 ITA, 5 NZL, 6 SUI, 7 GBR, 8 DEN, 9 AUT, 10 NED

Three spots available at 2015 worlds:
1. GER (3rd)
2. ARU (6th)
3. ESP (10th)
4. USA (Newberry, 19th)
5. GRE (23rd)
6. PUR (Figueroa, 26th)
7. CAN (Ramsay, 29)
8. RUS (30)
9. URU (33)
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/08/15 10:22 PM

Three night races, and we're moving up! Awesome! How many medal races do we need to win to clinch this thing?

Mike
Posted By: Marty M

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/09/15 01:21 AM

http://sailjuice.podbean.com/
Posted By: P.M.

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/09/15 11:35 AM

http://www.nacra17class.com/evening-sailing-in-aarhus-on-the-4th-day-of-the-nacra17-worlds/
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/09/15 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff.Dusek


This link still works and is being updated. No results for today yet.

Mike
Posted By: Karl_Brogger

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/09/15 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
That's weird, a broken N17 mast...


Oh come on Mark you can do better than that? Oh sh1t Karl said that, damn marriage has made you soft, are you getting fat too?


I am gaining weight at an alarming rate... I blame it on not sailing anymore, and eating on a schedule.
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/09/15 03:25 PM

Results for two silver fleet races are up. Not great for USA today. Steph/Evan ate an OCS, and plummeted to 11th. Mark M and JC stayed ashore.

Mike
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/10/15 02:54 PM

Medal race results are posted, it's all over for USA until the next qualifier...

Mike
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/10/15 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by brucat
Medal race results are posted, it's all over for USA until the next qualifier...

Mike


But based on Jeff's initial post for this thread if the US didn't get a spot in Miami there is no Rio for the US N17. So, if Miami has limited entries the US won't get a slot and therefore aren't going to Rio. Am I understanding that correctly?

Jeff, can you also explain that if CAN, PUR, and ARU get that allows for the opportunity for US team to qualify?
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/10/15 04:30 PM

The US has one more chance to qualify the country for Rio, and that will be at the 2016 Miami OCR. The Miami event will be the continental qualifier for both North and South America. ARU got their country spot at the Worlds that just finished, so in Miami it will be a three way fight between USA, CAN, and PUR for one available North American spot.

The Miami regatta is also the first qualifying event for the US selection, so the dynamics between sailing for the country qualification and sailing for the US selection could be interesting.

I assumed Miami will have limited entries, but talking to some folks yesterday that may no be the case. If it is limited, the US slots will be allocated as follows from the selection document:

"2. For the 2016 ISAF Sailing World Cup Miami, if limited entries are
enforced, MNAs will be awarded a certain number of spots according
to a system described in the Notice of Race. US Sailing will award
entries to its athletes using the following criteria:

The first two entries in each class will be awarded to the two highest
finishing athletes or teams at the 2015 class world championships. (Newberry and Easton)

If a third entry is available in a class, it will be awarded to the highest
finishing athletes or teams at the 2016 MLK Weekend Regattas at
Coconut Grove Sailing Center (470, 49er, 49er FX, Nacra 17, RS:X) and
Lauderdale Yacht Club (Finn, Laser, Laser Radial) January 16-18, 2016.

If a fourth entry is available in a class, it will be awarded to the third
highest finishing athletes or teams at the 2015 class world
championships...." (Hudson)

Definitely not over for the US, but only one of US, CAN, or PUR will be in Rio
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/10/15 05:08 PM

Well, the good news is that Sarah and Matthew finished ahead of PUR and CAN in this regatta, hopefully they continue that streak into Miami!

Mike
Posted By: David Ingram

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/10/15 06:17 PM

Thank you Jeff.
Posted By: Jeff.Dusek

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/10/15 11:36 PM

No problem... all I have been doing lately is sitting at a desk writing my thesis!
Posted By: brucat

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/11/15 03:12 AM

Get your a$$ to Newport....

Mike
Posted By: Mark Schneider

Re: 2015 Nacra 17 Worlds - 07/15/15 01:57 AM

Well.... what do you know... the emperor's birthday suit is looking a bit shabby to the sailors in the game.

Facebook threads by Howden illustrate the issues I raised two years ago..... but all that he offers is... well... sailors will adapt.

It has gotten so bad... that they are forming an ALTERNATIVE class association to address the issues.

Now the rank and file finally speak up... including Sarah N. who is arguing for wind limits.

Andrew McPherson notes the following.

Quote
Andrew Macpherson The T foil rudders would certainly help, but the main foil design is fundamentally flawed and the only proper solution is to change the main foil to a heave stable solution that will allow the boat to be raced in a wider range of conditions. This is something for the next Olympiad. The main focus now should be to align the build quality and warranty with the allowable conditions for racing. The current situation of crossing your fingers every time you go race in more than 20kts is the stupidest thing I've seen in Olympic sailing. Ever.

If the builder would back the equipment they sell (at crazy high prices) it would be ok. But the fight every time there is a warranty claim is tiresome, if there were multiple builders as we see in the Laser, 470, 49er you could decide not to give your money to a sub standard builder.... But this monopoly situation does nothing to encourage the builder to do better, on the contrary.... It's to their benefit to build stuff that breaks!


The crime is that even hackers like myself could see the problems years ago and the apologists poo poo d the obvious issues postponing the pressure on ISAF and NACRA

The MHC met with the US rep on the technical committee in Annapolis about the selection process... We asked about and we were assured that ISAF would regulate the monopoly they were giving to NACRA... FAIL

It is NOT like they haven't done this before... the 49ner was selected in part BECAUSE of the multiple builders providing quality control and price competition. Bethwaite FIXED the 49ner in the first quad so that they had a reasonable race boat... They improved the boat further in subsequent quads. Again. ISAF played a role.

So... at the very least... Can we finally stop the BS... that the top sailors can manage the boat... everything is perfect!
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