Catsailor Blog Spam

Hi Rick, I received an unexpected, unsolicited email from this site's blog.

I dislike spam (unsolicited email) and tried to Opt-out. I was shocked to see that your opt-out contains this message "Before you unsubscribe, PLEASE READ this NOTICE:
By unsubscribing you will removed from BOTH our Catsailor.com Forum AND the OnlineMarineStore Blog. You will no longer have access to your past forum posts and will no longer receive our blog or newsletter emails. This cannot be undone.".

As a web marketer (of 19 years) I have to tell you this is a poor practice. You risk angering your public (us) and losing your forum and site members (who are the lifeblood of your site).

If this was just about any other forum i am a part of ... I would simply unsubscribe and never return.

As an email developer - this is also a matter of legality... It is a arguably an illegal Can-Spam infraction under the "harvesting of emails" (since we have no business relationship, I have not opted-in, and you have offered a free service (this forum) and have harvested the emails to send out a commercial email.

I hope you will reconsider your practice and offer a double opt-in (best practice) to anyone who wishes to receive your emails, or at the least an opt-out that does not have additional repercussions.



FYI
What are the penalties for violating the CAN-SPAM Act?
A. Each separate email in violation of the law is subject to penalties of up to $16,000, and more than one
person may be held responsible for violations. For example, both the company whose product is promoted
in the message and the company that originated the message may be legally responsible. Email that makes
misleading claims about products or services also may be subject to laws outlawing deceptive advertising,
like Section 5 of the FTC Act. The CAN-SPAM Act has certain aggravated violations that may give rise
to additional fines. The law provides for criminal penalties – including imprisonment – for:
• accessing someone else’s computer to send spam without permission,
• using false information to register for multiple email accounts or domain names,
• relaying or retransmitting multiple spam messages through a computer to mislead others about the
origin of the message,
• harvesting email addresses or generating them through a dictionary attack (the practice of sending
email to addresses made up of random letters and numbers in the hope of reaching valid ones), and
• taking advantage of open relays or open proxies without permission.

- https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/do...n-spam-act-compliance-guide-business.pdf

Totally agree.

I agree that it's not ideal but the email also says (below the Unsubcribe text) that you can disable these email within your Profile settings.
There's a button you can click which disables "community emails" or something like that.

I would be fine with that.

I looked before, and just looked again in my profile, preferences, and subscriptions.

I saw no way to opt out of emails without penalty of account closure.

Rick? is there a way to change this preference?

I do not understand your getting upset by two short emails a month as small payment for maintaining this Forum for over almost two decades. You all have had your run of this Forum with absolutely nothing asked of you, except use it. Is that too much to ask?

And why would you label them SPAM?

The emails are informative newsletters, with general boating information some of which has been compiled from Chapman’s Book of Piloting and Seamanship and Annapolis Book of Seamanship.

The tactics and racing sections are from over 20 years of articles I have written in a column on tactics called “What If...?” This has been a very popular column with abundant material I have gleaned from over 20 years of teaching seminars with over 50 World Class Guest Experts spilling their guts out. When they spoke it went in one ear, and I plugged the other one.

To add a little spice I have also added the Best of Captain Noah Tall, which many consider a real hoot, and great spoof on advice columns.

Yes, interlaced are a few ads. This site and this Forum have no visible means of support, except for our store, which is not doing all that well. It needs to do well in order for this site and this Forum to survive. Times are tough and I have needed to reach out to Forum Members to let them know our store even EXISTS. Many don’t. I will make that MOST DON”T.

So, Please be a little understanding.

Click on:
1-My Stuff
2-Edit Profile (not Preferences)
3- Third item down says
"From time to time we send out emails regarding this community.
Do you wish to receive these emails?
No Yes "

But this will only work if Rick uses this forum module to generate his address list. If he harvests his entire list and emails/spams manually then this might not save you.

+1, Rick

You have my full understanding.

I've said this once before on this forum: I'm more than willing to pay an annual membershipsfee.

Catsailing costs money and most of us are not "poor" people.
So a few bugs for the hours of talking and socializing with like-minded sailors is a futility.

P.S. Bob, stop nagging about some emails. When you buy something on internet, you also get unwanted emails as a result of that.
The whole internet floates financially on advertizing.

Spam = unsolicited email - I did not request, nor opt-in.


I wouldn't care at all if you had an opt out option that did not remove me from the forum community.


Your statements contradict each other
a. Nothing asked in return except use it (the forum)
b. Use it and be required to accept spam 26 times a year
Furthermore, our posts are used in your commercial newsletter. I have seen my posts in your newsletter. We are (unpaid) contributors to your commercial print newsletter, so there IS something "Asked in return".

I am not upset, I am flooded with SPAM every day. About 40 every day. I wish to reduce this as much as possible.

I am telling you this Unsubscribe (with penalty) and be removed from the community is not a "best practice" and as a matter of fact it is a good way to upset and lose subscribers, and potential customers.


Who's Bob?
Thanks for your input. When you buy a product you have a business relationship with that vendor. That gives the vender a business relationship and is considered a "somewhat" acceptable reason to send requested spam. The business is also required to provide a working opt-out of any future spam.

Well you.
As I remember me, you're first name was Robbert, isn't it?

Totally agree. These emails are SPAM and I personally find them to be annoying. Just give people the option to opt-out.

sm

I use Outlook for my mail and simply create a rule that moves unwanted emails to the Deleted Items folder. I'm sure other programs have the same option. Just create a rule and be done with it.

I use MailWasherPro, and can teach it what I don't want. All the bad stuff is in red background, the good stuff is in green, and the unknown in white.
The good thing all the bad emails are deleted from the server, not your computer.
Rick

I have edited my profile/ preferences to not receive "emails regarding this community"

If i receive another one I will cancel my account and all my posts (as your optout's only option).

Yes, I hope that works. I hope so.
However, I don't understand why it bothers you so much that I make an attempt at making some money to pay for this site and Forum.
An email every two weeks??? And you say you get 40 per day.
Funny.
Rick

Bob, obviously you are a layman with regard to legal matters.

This forum is not a business with a business-like connection to the members who write posts.
No, it is a service provided by Catamaran Sailor shop run by Rick. The reason why he provides this free service is obvious.
Infact so obvious that it can be considered as common knowledge with each writing member. Especially if the membership is more than 10 years.
The same applies for the fact that everybody understands that, though this service is free, it has to be paid for by Ricks shop.

So, there's no misleading, no false expectation between both sites of the relationship!


This all makes your appeal on the CAN_SPAM Act invalid (to be honest its a laugh). There is no Judge in the U.S. that will consider the action of Rick as an infraction on this Act.

Don't be a fool.

It doesn't bother me AT ALL that you try to make money from your site/store/newsletter just the opposite. I hope you do very well on it.

What bothers me is that there didn't seem to be a way to opt out of unrequested emails (from a legitimate website/store) without the penalty of having my account and almost 4000 posts removed.

1. My name is not Bob. - you obviously do not know me

2. I seriously doubt I could be considered a Layman (with legal or Can-Spam matters). I grew up and worked in a family owned law firm and was a pre-law student until I decided it wasn't for me.
I have been a professional web marketer for 19 years now. My current employer sends out over 600,000,000 (yes 2/3rds of a billion) per year (all opt-ins).

3. - This forum is not in question. The email that was sent contains advertising for goods and services. That makes it a commercial email that falls under the jurisdiction of the Can-Spam Act. I was not talking about suing Rick ... I was giving him a heads up that his newsletter has some questionable practices (harvesting emails from his "free" site, not clearly marking the email as advertising (which it contains), not offering a opt-out that works within 10 days.

I was also telling Rick that his practice of removing his members from the forum if they opt-out is a poor practice that will cannibalize his own membership...

you may want to read up on the laws so you accurately can speak about them before you start telling others what a US judge will do (PS it's the FTC, not a judge that will dispense any fines over a can-spam infraction....unless also criminally prosecuted) - https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/can-spam-act-compliance-guide-business

Okay Andrew, your decision to stop a law-study is now clear. And ofcourse I'm not mocking you for that!

I respect your family background and your drive now to chase after a legal issue which you think you have.
Still I keep saying that you make a big mistake in doing so:

In a civilized society there is law and there are events and circumstances which need regulation by the law.
Applying the law is always done by judges, special commitees, governmental offices, etc. If it was simple and easy to apply the law, there was no need for that judment level.

So you make the mistake of taking some Act for spam and, with that text in your hand, just reason that in our case Rick is doing something wrong. If you had finished your law-study you should have learned that this one-to-one reasoning is not what applying law is.
As I explained in my previous post there are obvious and resonable circumstances in Rick's case that protect him against "prosecution".

In your world there would be no lawyers!

which begs the question... would you still frequent the website if it were behind a pay-wall?

Does the user agreement include the ability to use information posted on this web for the hard-copy issue and/or other purposes? Is any of this "content" protected in some way?

As you mentioned earlier, this is the model the internet survives on. While I may or may not agree, I have come to accept the inevitable to a certain extent.

I guess my more pertinent question is why Rick's web-store isn't performing as expected. I doubt it is due to pricing. Is the format out-dated? Is it being marketed to the wrong demographics?

It is well beyond my skill set (I fell off the bus with ENIAC), but you social media gurus could possibly offer a world of help to keep this the flagship site it hopes to be.

I typed this on a punch-card to upload...

I was a bit surprised to see this, but there is no user agreement upon sign up ... only a few rules.
(I am not a lawyer, but I did stay at a holiday inn once).... this is a public site, I would GUESS that anything posted here could be re-produced and feely disseminated. That doesn't mean that a lawsuit couldn't happen, and someone could make a claim that they contributed to the publication of a (for PAY) print newsletter and were entitled to some of the money collected. Not sure that case would have any legs to stand on... but isn't the point. Legal fees would be required to defend against that type of lawsuit. That is why most sites have lengthy disclaimers that would contain verbiage to avoid sed actionable items



If asked by Rick, I would be glad to give my opinion and advice

I keep telling you I have no "chase" on at all (besides to have an opt-out that doesn't remove my account)
any other "legal" data was a heads up to Rick... you seem to think I want to sue him... I don't

Andrew, you are really starting to be a pain in my .... You are endlessly repeating that you want an optout from Rick with no consequences.
Well, even my grandchildren know how to block unwanted mails in their computer.

So, wat exactly is your problem??? Stop this nagging or leave this forum, please.

Thanks for your input
I was responding directly to Rick's comment saying I was upset.

there is a way to block comments from users that you don't want to see
Please block my comments if they bother you, otherwise feel free to continue to comment, and I will respond or ignore

(click on my username, then "ignore this user")

Interesting concept debate... by allowing this "block/ignore" feature is the administrator allowing restriction of the concept of "free speech"?

I am of the personal opinion that you have the right to say pretty much anything you want, and I have the right to ignore you. But others' opinions vary

Jay, You can't block me. If you put me on ignore I will drive south and tape print-outs of all my re-diculous comments to your front door.

Yes iI found this also an unknow (to me), but interesting concept.
And I agree with you that one has total freedom of speech on this forum.

The reason why I got angry on Andrew is that his arguement is not only legally invalid but is moreover inappropriate towards Rick.
It's childisch (like a child who doesn't get what he want) and it's impudent to the host Rick who offered him so many years a free podium of speech.

As if there's no moral obligation at all.

Let somebody on this forum please reassure me that this conduct is not the American way, please.

My advise to Rick is to implement some statements in the forumrules that use of this forum (by writing posts) means that he has the right to advertize on the site and in emails.
Second, the posts are not the intellectual property of the members and can be handled, published or sold as he wishes.

you continue to think I had a "legal fight" with Rick.
I didn't.

Are you / were you ever a lawyer or a Judge?

"and it's impudent to the host Rick "
Please show me any example where I was rude or not showing due respect to Rick - I was very polite and respectfully explaining my displeasure with one of his emailing policies.

Please read this post once again with an open mind, Andrew.

It says it all.

I have read it again with an open mind.

Thanks for your input

Ha!

Your mind control will not work on me, jedi

No, this is not the 'merican way. We usually nuke people

To answer Jay, which I think is important,
"I guess my more pertinent question is why Rick's web-store isn't performing as expected. I doubt it is due to pricing. Is the format out-dated? Is it being marketed to the wrong demographics?
"

A bit of history is required, I suppose. We started the store in the early 2000s with software that was not easy to use, but were doing excellent revenue and had a staff of three to work it. Not much profit, but doable.
At that time we were sending out a similar newsletter which was well received and enjoyed. Consequently, good revenue.
Then I invested in much more sophisticated store software, and quickly were able to put up around 17,000 items in the store with graphics. It has lots of bells and whistles.

Then in the late 2000s the bottom dropped out. I blamed the economy, the government, or whoever. But, I had also stopped doing the newsletter.
About 2 years ago I made the discovery that Search Engine Optimization was required to get internet biz. No longer did Key Words do the trick. So, hired at least 4 companies that promised the moon, but cost to high heaven, and no response.

Last year it was down to just me and not much income. My niece is in the internet sales biz and got me started on Wordpress and blogging. And sending out newsletters. I did a few, but let it go, and now have started again.
By the way, I did a complete face lift to www.OnLineMarineStore.com and the landing page is quite impressive.., or at least I have had folks so tell me. It is easy to navigate and has a great search engine.

And indeed, revenue is beginning to come back, albeit not like in the early 2000s. Again, with 96 million unemployed people in the USA, there a far less buyers than before.

Also, this latest thing is not a whim.., this is a MUST.., this is now survival. Times have been very tough and my resources are very thin.
The store and this Forum need to survive and that is what I am attempting to do.

Don't let us fool you Rick. Most catsailors are not unemployed although we complain like we are...

Thank you for the history. Good to know you've got folks working on SEO (or whatever voodo they call charging you money).

Perhaps the easiest is to get people who use the site often to refer their catsailing friends to the site (and store). Patronize those who support your interests... right?

On totally other (and far more important) topics, how is Mary?

These are not the droids carbon fiber foils you are looking for.

Not good, and thanks for asking.
Really never thought she would make it that first week in January when she was in that coma while intubated. Good genes, I guess.

I had no idea.
Sending positive thoughts and prayers your / her way

From Bureau Of Labor Statistics, Department Of Labor

THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION — MARCH 2016
Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 215,000 in March, and the unemployment rate was little changed at 5.0 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. Employment increased in retail trade, construction, and health care. Job losses occurred in manufacturing and mining.

Household Survey Data
In March, the unemployment rate (5.0 percent) and the number of unemployed persons (8.0 million)
were little changed. Both measures have shown little movement since August.

Among the major worker groups, the unemployment rates for adult men (4.5 percent), adult women (4.6 percent), teenagers (15.9 percent), Whites (4.3 percent), Blacks (9.0 percent), Asians (4.0 percent), and Hispanics (5.6 percent) showed little or no change in March.

The number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks or more) was essentially unchanged at 2.2 million in March and has shown little movement since June. In March, these individuals accounted for 27.6 percent of the unemployed.

In March, the labor force participation rate (63.0 percent) and the employment-population ratio (59.9 percent) changed little. Both measures were up by 0.6 percentage point since September.

The number of persons employed part time for economic reasons (also referred to as involuntary part- time workers) was about unchanged in March at 6.1 million and has shown little movement since November. These individuals, who would have preferred full-time employment, were working part- time because their hours had been cut back or because they were unable to find a full-time job.

In March, 1.7 million persons were marginally attached to the labor force, down by 335,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) These individuals were not in the labor force, wanted and were available for work, and had looked for a job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed because they had not searched for work in the 4 weeks preceding the survey.

Among the marginally attached, there were 585,000 discouraged workers in March, down by 153,000 from a year earlier. (The data are not seasonally adjusted.) Discouraged workers are persons not currently looking for work because they believe no jobs are available for them. The remaining 1.1 million persons marginally attached to the labor force in March had not searched for work for reasons such as school attendance or family responsibilities.

Establishment Survey Data

Total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 215,000 in March. Employment gains occurred in retail trade, construction, and health care, while job losses occurred in manufacturing and mining.

Retail trade added 48,000 jobs in March. Employment gains occurred in general merchandise stores (+12,000), health and personal care stores (+10,000), building material and garden supply stores (+10,000), and automobile dealers (+5,000). Over the past 12 months, retail trade has added 378,000 jobs.

Construction employment rose by 37,000 in March. Job gains occurred among residential specialty trade contractors (+12,000) and in heavy and civil engineering construction (+11,000). Over the year, construction has added 301,000 jobs.

Employment in health care increased by 37,000 over the month, about in line with the average monthly gain over the prior 12 months. In March, employment rose in ambulatory health care services (+27,000) and hospitals (+10,000). Over the year, health care employment has increased by 503,000.

Over the month, employment continued to trend up in food services and drinking places (+25,000) and in financial activities (+15,000).

In March, employment in professional and business services changed little for the third month in a row. In 2015, the industry added an average of 52,000 jobs per month.

Employment in manufacturing declined by 29,000 in March. Most of the job losses occurred in durable goods industries (-24,000), including machinery (-7,000), primary metals (-3,000), and semiconductors and electronic components (-3,000).

Mining employment continued to decline in March (-12,000) with losses concentrated in support activities for mining (-10,000). Since reaching a peak in September 2014, employment in mining has decreased by 185,000.

Employment in other major industries, including wholesale trade, transportation and warehousing, information, and government, changed little over the month.
The average workweek for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls was unchanged at 34.4 hours in March. The manufacturing workweek edged down by 0.1 hour to 40.6 hours. Factory overtime was 3.3 hours for the fourth month in a row. The average workweek for production and nonsupervisory employees on private nonfarm payrolls was unchanged at 33.6 hours.

In March, average hourly earnings for all employees on private nonfarm payrolls increased by 7 cents to $25.43, following a 2-cent decline in February. Over the year, average hourly earnings have risen by 2.3 percent. In March, average hourly earnings of private-sector production and nonsupervisory employees increased by 4 cents to $21.37.

The change in total nonfarm payroll employment for January was revised from +172,000 to +168,000, and the change for February was revised from +242,000 to +245,000. With these revisions, employment gains in January and February combined were 1,000 less than previously reported. Over the past 3 months, job gains have averaged 209,000 per month.

Hi,
One thing that could possibly help with costs of the site would be a donate button with a option for auto repeat donations for those that want.
Advertisers could be another possibility. The catracing blog guy has all sorts of advertisers on his little blog.

blessings.

since only us dinosaurs use this type of format (web/forum) vs. the yoots (social media/instant message feed)... I think the demographic is limited.

But how do you go and search FB, Twitter, Instagram, etc for the depth of topic information that you can easily do here on CS?

Is CS available as an app? I've never accessed this site with my phone/tablet...

The Forum is cell friendly, but not the site in general. I was told it would be pretty expensive to do so.
Rick

I think you're right, but think of the billions of $$ (great marketing there, )

A cheap and simple (possible) way to go .... would be to create a mobile landing page (m.catsailor.com) which has 2 links. 1 - store. 2 - forum. This way at least you could still drive traffic (currently you get a broken screen if you try to directly go to www.catsailor.com on a (my) mobile device)

Thanks.., good thoughts. Looking into it.
Rick

Have you considered switching the site to something like Wordpress
Wordpress sites use "themes" which include mobile layouts for multiple device types (Phones, tablets, desktops).
The content stays the same regardless which device you use, converting the main Catsailor page to Wordpress wouldn't be that much work since its a pretty simple layout.

Simple in theory, but every page must be rebuilt into a new site/platform.
I don't know how many pages are on this site, but I would charge at least $100 per page

I just spent over 250 hours on a wp project I did for an old co-worker. I under bid it by about 100 hours and am still paying the price (doing more work for free)

We probably have close to 1000 pages. I do use Wordpress for the blog. I think it is very clumsy to use.

WP is a very useful application that is widely used and supported (not suggesting you use it, just stating).

I don't love it personally, but it can be a very economical (cheap) way to get a robust, reliable, responsive (desktop/tablet/mobile) website that can look good, and pretty easily upgrade/change the look and feel of.

I'm a tech-bicil, but can't seem to get to the web-store using my phone. Thoughts?

It won't work with your phone... may be time to upgrade




PS works on my iphone 5s

www.OnLineMarineStore.com is mobile friendly. Just got it on my droid

and there you have it... Thanks for the address. I was using the catsailor.com which came up blank.

Operator? Key Largo 6533, please....

Despite opting out AND closing down my other account that was getting SPAM from this site - that email address continues to get SPAM from this site blog

I am a man of my word, and since you won't respect or honor my opt out request ... i have now requested to have this account closed