The new DNA F1 A-cat

I can only imagine what the price is for this sucker, but wow...check this thing out:

http://www.catsailingnews.com/2016/04/a-class-dna-2016-f1-coolest-sailboat.html

It definitely looks good!

According to a DNA employee posting over at Sailing Anarchy ( LINK ), the price will be around 21,750 Euros which is about $24,800 USD right now with a boat that is "ready to sail" including all lines, etc. I find that a little hard to believe that it will be that affordable but that's what he said. I'm pretty sure the last iteration of the DNA cost that for a platform without a mast or sails.

I thought it said for a platform only no mast or sail?

what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam...

Hmmm. Possibly. He said:



I suppose "ready to sail" was tempered by "everything related to a platform is included"...only after you add a mast, boom, rigging, and sail.

I would think so. The wind as a power source is fixed so anything you can eek out of it would be significant at the pointy end of the fleet. In wild guess mode, I'm guessing they might see as much as a 5% bump in aero efficiency with the boat at 25 knots. Foiling upwind/cracked reaching is probably seeing close to 30 knots across the deck.

First off - way cool boat. I want one. Now! Just need to rob a bank.

On the importance of drag reduction, I think its a bigger deal than we think.

Check the simplified biking drag calculator halfway down the page here: https://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/aerodynamics1.html
20mph apparent wind yields 10.5N drag = ~2.4lbF (yes, dirty units)
30mph apparent wind yields 23.7N drag = ~5.3lbF

This is for a cyclist + bike. I know its apples/oranges for us, but still meaningful

From the article:
"On a flat road, aerodynamic drag is by far the greatest barrier to a cyclist's speed, accounting for 70 to 90 percent of the resistance felt when pedaling."

On a % basis, the aero beam figures might be small compared with all the other sources of drag. But all things being equal on an absolute basis over a 40min race, it adds up.

Maybe we should start wearing skin-suits?

That's how I interpreted it. But still not too bad considering the platform was close to that price before if I remember correctly.

yea but what happens when you bury the bows down to the front beam. does that drive you under?


And Wow is that sexy!

I'm going to need a towel.

Maybe. But you certainly won't appear on anyone's radar display with that carbon shape... So good luck seeing your nose-dive on radar/video

I'm a little awestruck at how this F1 DNA will probably redefine what a "modern catamaran" will be in the near future. They put a lot of thought into this boat. While I'm still not sold that foiling is everything it's cracked up to be (particularly on inland lakes), boats like this make it start to really look purposeful. The fact that Mischa was foiling this thing upwind and tacking through 105 degrees is impressive.

I bet the mast will see the next development step with a different profile. Although bend characteristics have changed quite a bit, the standard a-cat mast configuration has been relatively unchanged for several decades and it just looks "old" when it sits atop this boat.

I presume you guys also noticed that the trampoline has an upper and lower layer. The control lines that go through the top do not penetrate the bottom to keep the air flowing through the bottom smooth.

JC mentioned in his podcast about the benefit lower COE when foiling. perhaps this might indeed change mast/sail/wing design as well?

I've been thinking that front beam fairing needed to happen for several weeks now. It also helps solve the problem of the mast rotation bar which was less than ideal.

I love the boat, visually I think it obsoletes all of the current foilers. I have mixed feelings on that. Though I am glad the see the price is similar.

I've been wondering if the stability of foiling means a wing mast would pay now?

I want one. badly.

found a price list. Fully equipped in clear carbon with foil covers, boat yard cover, lycra trailering cover, mast, boom, standing riggin/trap, sail (decksweeper), etc....30.690 Euros ($35,000 USD) before delivery / taxes.

If you want it painted a color, it's an extra $1,100.

That's kinda what I was thinking about the mast development. Maybe not a full-on wing sail (weight) but a significantly larger (possibly structured) mast with a smaller fabric sail behind it. ...Something somewhat between both worlds.

Ben Hall talked about his in JCs podcast, too. Apparently with a few updates it would be ideal.

I agree that this boat is bad butt. All of the details look so nicely executed. I think a few are coming to the US this summer as are new eXploders. As I understand it, both manufacturers now use CFD for analysis and design. Incredible to see that level of refinement for a small catamaran.

Foiling is really powerful even in the lake environment. At Lake Lanier in lighter air if I or others can get on the foils, the distance to other boats increases dramatically. At the very best case for foilers in just foiling conditions, they can sail about the same angle as a boat that is going mild downwind but be foiling. It's a good thing we have gone to breaking out classic and foiling boats in scores for this reason.

The downside seems to be that as the boats get more optimized for foiling, they are suffering on mild downwind performance. I haven't seen any deck sweeper that will go as well as a regular sail and boom configuration in light air downwind.

When I bought a DNA before in 2012, it was 15.5K Euros for the platform, so this one has gone up about 5K Euros and a ton of advancement in style and design and performance.

PS - check out the sealed trampoline Bach made for me on the eXploder. I think he has gotten quite a few orders and has started putting a lighter pentex material underneath to reduce weight a couple of months ago just like the newly released DNA. Way to go Carolina Sails in Greenville, SC. I noticed the boat felt quicker upwind even when sailing with a traditional rig and not the deck sweeper Bach built for me that I use now. I also seem to be getting better gas mileage when towing and noticed the trailer getting a little skittish at 80. It's cool that both the DNA and eXploders from the last several years are already built with a wing shape in the underside of the trampoline. [img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgjgssc2z6yf0jp/2015-11-20%2016.28.19.jpg?dl=0[/img]

I really wish you guys would come up with another moniker than "classic".

Like what, "floater" or "wave hugger"?

That new boat is unbelievable.

Mike

average
classic
clichéd
conventional
exemplary
hackneyed
model
most characteristic
paradigmatic
prime
quintessential
representative
standard
stereotypical
stock
textbook

No, no, no...something contextually entirely different. A "classic" car is old as crap. My A-cat is not old. To infer that an A-cat that is only a few years old is a "classic" is just terrible marketing for the class, bad for boat resale value, and marginally insulting (it's obvious that the "classic" moniker was conceived by people who owned foilers). Besides, the real "classic" a-cats have always been the higher weight wood a-cats that even have their own portsmouth rating.

Full Foiler, semi-foiler...something like that. We essentially have two different classes of boats. While it's likely that the future class will eventually be all foilers, that isn't set in stone just yet. Even the non-foiling A-cats are a genuine pleasure to sail and unlike what happened with the moth, there really isn't another boat that competes with the features of either a-cat variation.

Maybe the foilers should be the ones that get a new designation - let's call them A-cat-BMWs. (Buying My Wins)

Good feedback, Jake. I'm not sure where the classic term came about. I probably first heard it from John Scheifer a few years ago when the C board boats were going faster and faster. John is definitely not a foiler!

You are exactly right on all the boats being quite good as they are. A 2002 Flyer will still give tremendous pleasure to sail compared to most any other cat out there.

Sometimes people say floaters and foilers. And the importer of eXploder called himself a sinker because he is a non-foiling foiler. I'm up for any good name and welcome ideas.

Looks like built in one piece like the Whisper cat from England. That would account for the lighter weight and the shape of the beams. very cool
Some one should re visit the sloop rig now that they are stable foiling.

That might explain it English isn't his thing.

"Displacers"?

Or "low-riders"?

I kinda like low-riders.

The problem is the older C board boats still foil too, but not very often. I watched Ken Marshak foiling upwind one time on his 2012 DNA C board boat when sailing in heavy air on a close reach back to the beach. It wasn't stable flight but it was definitely getting up there. And here is another video of him sailing in heavy air and trying to get air born by mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzgmXL32U5s

low-riders is fun.

Thanks for the shout-out Bailey.

I thought the old boats were called the intergalactic fleet?

"Intergalactic" started when the ISAF started giving people fits over using the word "World" in the event name. They threatened to ban sailors that participated in any sailing event with "World" in the title that wasn't an official ISAF event. Hence, some events started calling themselves the Intergalactic Championship instead. I think the Hobie Waves did this a few times.

I suspect in this case, that the A-cat "Intergalactic" event is another phrase we owe to that humorous Swedish John fellow

So the 2016 global A-cat Low-Rider championships will be held where?

I keep coming back to something like "A1" and "A2" for the foiler/non-foiler but the dad-gum manufacturers have been numbering their models with number designations that this would be really confusing.

Maybe we need a couple of sponsors to make us like Busch Cup and Sprint Cup

Green Room Graphics Cup sounds goo

I see the T rudders on this boat, but how are they adjusting the tilt of the daggers, or are they not? I didn't see any mechanisms on the hulls to adjust the rake of the boards/foils.

And I agree that adding a hard wing sail would make it even faster, but then you're really going to need a lot of help launching/retrieving it, more so if you have to insert the boards from the bottom with a full wing up on top, going to be a pita, and you'll need a big box to store the wing mast in too.

Rudder rake adjustment:


The top red plastic piece slides fore and aft to adjust the top of the daggerboard / daggerboard rake. Presumably there is a threaded wheel / line mechanism inside the hull to adjust the board rake.



Here's a LINK to the bigger picture.

Ahhhh, there it is! Thanks Jake. That is one slick looking beast!

For you guys who do foil, how much time, or how many times do you need to adjust the board rake while under way? Can you do it while out on the wire, or do you pretty much know about where to set it based on the wind/wave conditions, then set it and forget it? Is there an upwind setting, and a different one for downwind?

And once you set the starboard board, do you then have to crawl across the tramp to set the port board to match, or do they both move with one line?

Here's something else that flies, for only $16,000.

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=listing&main=

Click on the second add, the Kolb Firestar 2

wow.. is that a fish-eye lens on the camera? It almost looks as if one hull is longer (the near one) than the other (far one)...

Just looking at this gives me newfound respect for anyone who can fly this thing effectively with only two hands... let me think:
- adjust mainsheet/traveler
- adjust diamond tension
- adjust downhaul
- adjust daggar depth
- adjust daggar angle
- adjust rudder rake/angle

oh yeah... and steer, trap out, move weight around, etc.

How the F do you keep your "head out of the boat" with all that going on?

Timbo, normally we let the boards all the way forward for upwind and then pull them back before bearing away at the top mark to go downwind. You pull them back as much as needed and this can be done from the wire with most boats, just like adjusting your mast rotation. The rake systems generally have tight bungies that retract the deck sliders forward when the rake adjuster line is released.

The eXploders have come delivered with a system that allows adjustment of both boards from either side with a single line. The DNAs have been re-rigged in the US by their owners for this system too and I would guess the F1 has it built in.

In lighter air you need more lift and pull the boards back farther. In heavier winds, you are going faster and so the boards produce enough lift with a smaller adjustment. If you are sailing downwind and the boat isn't foiling, you can step back and help get lift off.

As boats begin to foil upwind, you may not have to adjust the boards at all. I don't know.

At first it seemed like the boats were getting more complicated to sail but over time we are finding they are getting simpler than the older ones. My process before the top mark is to pull the boards back and ease the rotator from the wire. So pull one line a foot or so and ease another the same and just play the mainsheet. Eventually I ease the traveler too. That is all you do until you reach the bottom mark. No need to adjust outhaul or raise boards or even cunningham now though it can be nice to ease the cunningham if I need power.

well, that is a relief to know that smart folk are working out simple solutions...

One of you will undoubtedly come up with a single control that switches from upwind mode settings to downwind mode settings (both pre-set by user based on conditions). Like a friggin lever with "UP" and "DOWN"

Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like it's pretty much one setting for upwind, one for downwind, and you don't have to play with it too much while you are out on the wire, I'm guessing you do have to move your weight around, forward and back, to fine tune the ride height once up out of the water? And what happens in bigger waves or chop that's high enough to hit the front beam? Do you go up and over it, or plow through it? So both dagger boards stay full down all the time too, is that correct? And the adjustment is only a few inches between forward and back setting?

What happens if you pick up a weed or a trash bag on the bottom of the foil?

Tell you what, Timbo... Buy one and let us know

Or (better) help out one of their regattas (mark boat) and watch the hotshots make it look super easy

Timbo, they're getting more of a four pointed lift out of both boards and rudders and are shifting toward a system where they use both daggerboards instead of raising one on each tack/gybe. The stability is increasing as a result. It's not totally unlike the lift distribution on a typical airplane but the wings on the rudders (aka, horizontal stab) are carrying more of the balancing load than they used to and it's getting closer to sitting on four legs instead of balancing on the daggerboards with the rudders providing attitude trim.

The issue with USED to be that the boat would porpoise badly trying to get to stable flight if they tried to more evenly distribute the lifting force between the boards and rudders (early Team New Zealand / Pete Melvin testing) but it looks like they've found a happy medium on the A-cat that results in pretty good stability and without the need to constantly adjust stuff. This may be where the foiling catamaran has an advantage over a foiling monohull (like a moth).

well said, Jake. I didn't know about how they proportion the lift. Interesting.

Yes, Timbo, the boards stay down all the time. This is great because it keeps the boat like a normal racing catamaran with good tacking and gybing. I do move my weight around a little to get lift off or fine tune the flight attitude but it is pretty subtle.

When you are sailing 12 to 18 inches above the water, the waves really aren't a factor like they used to be. You can surf down the longer ones still on foils and the bows will sometimes cut into the back of a wave but generally pretty impossible to stick the main beam unless you sail in bigger conditions than I'd ever want to sail in.

In Miami we had some pretty big chop this year at Bacardi Cup that would hit the main beam on occasion upwind. Downwind that chop and the big gusts associated with it were a little unnerving to foil in, so I healed the boat up and skimmed along instead. The boat won't foil when it is not flat and this is handy for coming in from the wire for jibes too. In skimming mode the boat just kind of touches backs of waves but doesn't bury like it normally would. Not as fast but still quick. In fact, on one race I was getting tired and tried sitting in downwind without the boards back to be more conservative. The boat actually was harder to sail because it kept stuffing waves and getting water over the main beam. I was surprised but I guess the manufacturers and foiling advocates who said lifting boards could actually make the boat easier to sail were right.

It's amazing how little change in board rake is required to make them foil and how much your body weight changes things too. The boards move back a max of 2 inches or so. I usually pull them back half way or a little more light air. If I don't foil, then I go back to the back foot strap and just stay in that one rather than the forward one and that usually does the trick.

Yeah, you first! I would like to see some at a regatta, when/where's their next big one?

A fellow a-cat sailor had an idea that I twisted around a little. Suppose the non-full-foiling type of a-cat is the LR (Low rider) fleet. Maybe NF fleet (not foiling)? That's generic enough and moderately sensible - or maybe something else along those lines.

Yeah, baby... low riders rule

I am good with low-rider. You like it better, Jake? Did the other A sailor as well?

Those low-riders are still fast. Ben Hall got 3rd overall on his DNA C board boat (missing what would have been a three way tie with two foilers for first by one point ) last weekend in Panama City with 24 boats. He was very fast downwind in light air and made good calls.

I don't care that much for the phrase "low rider" but "LR Fleet" has a ring to it. It makes sense and using the acronym will see everyone's recollection of what it stands for gradually fade at about the same time it simply transitions to being "what that fleet is called".

I can't find anything that conflicts with it in the sport other than "Lesbian Robot".



edit: Wait, crap...this was in the back of my mind and I finally placed it. Ian / John Lindal's boat, the LR3 (4, 5, etc) is a bit of a conflict with that. Curses.

exactly! He has the LR line up to LR-6 now.

That's also the term for a non-foiling moth fleet - low riders...

I suppose we could still go with it. I'm looking forward to rolling into the yacht club with THIS playing loud.

Does that mean that the foilers will be playing Steppenwolf's "Magic Carpet Ride"?

Totally, just not sure how you lay back and hang your elbow over the hull while you bounce up and down...

Technically speaking, I don't "roll into the yacht club" on my boat.

to the starting area...

LR had meaning in the sport for at least 15 years as Luna Rossa, did it not?

Maybe you can get the RC to play your theme song from the signal boat from your warning to prep. That could be fun.

Mike

There are apparently a few conflicts with LR but the more I think about it, conflicts with a two letter designation are going to happen everywhere. I'm starting to think that as long as it doesn't accidently interpret into something offensive, it's good. I vote let's go with "LR fleet".

- As Mike pointed out it is consistent with what the Moth's naming for the full foiling / not full foiling fleets.

- It passes a logic test...the displacement/semi foiling a-cats do ride lower in the water than the full foiling boats

- I can't think of any way that anyone would consider it derogatory (particularly the acronym).

- "LR" is pretty bland from an age and value perspective so it shouldn't shape perception in an unfavorable way.

Whats wrong with Floaters versus Flyers?

For starters, a "floater" is an extra splash of liquor on top of your mixed drink and is usually offered in the kind of Florida Keys establishment that would employ an overweight, aging, grumpy, female bartender that smokes far too much.

And Flyer is a brand/model of A-cat....so pretty confusing.

I would rather not be called a floater.

and let's face it. The foilers will likely BE the a-cat class, eventually. I do argue it will be much slower than how the Moth transitioned because a small single handed dinghy has a ton of similar boats where-as a 165lb single handed catamaran really doesn't have any competing boats of similar design.

With that being the case, we're really just talking about what to call the boats that aren't full-on foiling today so they can be broken out in the scores to keep things interesting for those of us that own those kinds of boats. We don't really need two designations. It's just a subset designation for scoring at larger a-cat events.

Ummm, floaters are dead bodies found in the river

Or poopies

How's about A-Cat? That's got a nice ring to it.

While cleaning pools, I had a different understanding of the word "floater".

I shot a video at the Worlds test event and got a look at the F1 in action, although there was'nt much action due to lack of wind

Hey, Tony, I saw after your vid another drone-vid from you; showing a kite in strong winds ??????????

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwmdWyosWcg


How much was the wind and what's the max drones can do nowadays?

I wouldn't put mine up in much more than 10 knots unless I could run with the wind. It just hammers through the juice too fast on my setup. I need better props, lower kv motors, and I need to bump the voltage up and I could get better flight times.

My first quad I could fly in in just about anything. But it didn't have fpv gear, two cameras, a gimbal, or landing gear.

at first I was wondering what kinda boat you are talking about ...

I have a phantom 3 professional. It's rated to 21kts IIRC. I have only had it up in 15 or so so far. Totally stable in that. Not ready to try yet it over water in gusting 20+ though.

Wind in the kitesurfing video was around 15-22kts, flying around was no problem and I could hand catch it without risk of losing too many fingers
The video below I shot at a race which got cancelled because of too much wind, there was around 27-35kts, I mainly did it to find the drone's limit.
Only one boat went out that day mainly because they travelled too far not to
Video is still very smooth even in these winds (watch the jib to see how much wind there was):
https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/s...93230_159877180_cd_share_link_amzn_email

It's amazing what the gimbals do for the footage. I've got a DJI F550 that I run two cameras on. The flight camera is fixed, and the GoPro is on a gimbal. I can switch between the two and what comes back to the monitor. Flying through the gimbal is spooky. The on screen display is the only indicator that it is leaned over and you're fighting wind. When you fly through the fixed camera the image is all over the place.

Technology!

oh man, if this doesn't make you want one, you need to check that you still have a pulse:

https://vimeo.com/170827596

I'm taking the drone over to the Worlds tomorrow for some shots of the practice race