Phantom Flyer 18 Rating

Does anyone know what the subject boat would rate in Portsmouth?

1,000,000? lol...this isn't going to be easy. SCHRS has an active rating for the phantom and while there may be some conversion tables I would, personally, consider running the event under SCHRS ratings and save some of the hassle. Because the boat's actual capabilities vary wildly in differing conditions, it's not a realistic goal to try and handicap them with other standard boats. That's not to mention the fact that you are probably looking at handicapping a distance race which adds further angle of sail inconsistencies into the handicap. However, it wouldn't demotivate me from trying to beat the sucker - so, good luck!

What minimum windspeed is needed to foil that thing?

I'd say 415 for non-foiling winds, and 125 for foiling?

I think a Moth rates 98 non-foil and 68 foil?

+1

SCHRS is a MUCH more accurate tool for handicapping racing on beach cats. So long as your boat is stock, there is no need to measure and obtain a certificate; therefore for a regatta organizer to use SCHRS vs. DP-N, there is minimal impact/no additional effort.

That's how it works on paper. In the real world, it's been reported to be not quite so simple. Still the best choice for new designs, I suppose.

Mike

Thanks everyone, I understand what you are saying and have no doubt that you are correct. I will make the case that the floater cats be scored separately from the foiling (maybe, I understand that it takes about 8 Knots to foil) Phantom cat but if they insist on having a Portsmouth handicap what is your best guess for a Phantom Flyer Portsmouth rating (for example, what would the conversion be from SCHRS)?
Thanks in advance.

Use a moth rating until the Phantom can prove otherwise?

I'm curious what you mean by that.... The formula to calculate CT is essentially the same as for DP-N, so not like it's harder to use. Not to mention the fact that there is one rating under SCHRS, not five as with DP-N.

SCHRS: CT = ET/HC
DP-N: CT = ET*100/HC

There are currently 278 boats with published SCHRS ratings, so unless you race a custom boat, chances are there is nothing you or a race organizer needs to do. Granted, WE had challenges at the FL300 since we were using a modified platform, but we expected to have to be measured going in.

I guess the choice is simple, keep using an antiquated, poorly maintained not maintained rating system or move to one that is more accurate and kept up to date.

Back to the original topic, I'd tell the Phantom that they can race in a foiling only class/fleet, or be scored with a provisional rating, but not be eligible for official placing. The current DP-N tables are so fraught with error already, why make it even worse by adding ANOTHER BS number into the mix?

I agree, we don't need another thread about the pros and cons of these systems (there are plenty of those already).

I do agree that they should be in a separate foiling class, and/or provisionally scored.

Mike

the "difficult with SCHRS" topic relates to this thread:
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubb...p;Words=schrs&Search=true#Post282941

as far as converting SCHRS to PHRF, I would just do the following. It's all just a fart in the sky anyway:

SCHRS:
F18 Rating: 1 (scratch boat)
Phantom Foiler Rating: 0.89
Hobie 16 Rating: 1.191 (for sanity check of math)

Portsmouth Ratings:
F18:62.4
H16:76.0
Phantom: X

1/62.4 = .89/X ~= 1.191/76

Hobie 16 rating value between the two is off only by 2% so the math sanity is roughly, approximately, right if I hold my thumb up high into the light.

X = (.89)/(1/62.4)
X = 55.5


I would scratch in the Phantom at a portsmouth of 55.5 based off SCHRS

For comparison, that puts it up there with an RC-30 / RC-27 in portsmouth...which I wouldn't think is enough of a difference by default. The Nacra 20 is at 59...IF he's foiling, they're going to blow that number out of the water but if the wind is light and it can't foil, it may have a speed potential less than an F18. In the vein of having some sort of justification for a starting point, I would run with 55.5

Oops, missed that one... was at the GT300

Thanks again for your advice. Here is something I found online. The Portsmouth rating listed for the Phantom Flyer 18 is .601 derived from SCHRS:

http://www.schrs.com/pylookalike.php

That's the RYA Portsmouth Yardstick that is used in the UK. It is a different animal from US Sailing Portsmouth.

That explains the UK in the URL.

Perhaps consider an "exhibition class" with all the foilers and franken-boats which can't develop a reasonable number. Used elapsed time for that class so at least you have the data for future rating?

There are enough foilers and franken boats in Ohio to make an exhibition class???

No floater (Franken or established) should ever be raced against foilers. These are really two different problems.

The only exception I would make is if it's a charity event, and no one cares about the trophy (which rarely actually happens).

Mike

Best reason ever for being out of the loop on this board!

Mike

perhaps not, but I think those folks who cobble together stuff are more in it for fun than DPN ratings. The foiling boats pretty much know they won't fit in any floater fleet.

I guess if all you want is pickle dishes,of course you'd bring a foiler. Or a 72' tri to R2K