Alter Cup 2016

Any reports from this year's event?

It looks like there are a few past TheMightyHobie18 NAC champs registered, so I would expect there is some tight racing.

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They're running it through Regatta Network, here's a link to results:

http://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_regatta_results.php?regatta_id=11833&show_crew=1

Race details show Liz Walker as the PRO, is that correct?

Mike

Whoa, after 7 races, Marshack/Pioszak have 6 bullets and a 2!?!?

Mike

Can you explain how that is surprising? I'm not familiar with the competitors below Ken (TheMightyHobie18 national champions from the heyday??). Really not all the surprising as while the boat is different downwind from the A and F18/F16 that Ken comes from, its not that different upwind from those boats and first to the top mark can usually hold that lead downwind...

Some of them are recent champions. Ken is a legendary TheMightyHobie18 sailor, but that's an impressive set of scores regardless.

Mike

Mike it is, but look at Easton/Burds scores at major NE regattas where they have lead wire to wire against teams that are consistently ranked in the Top 10, including Ken...

Different boat, different event, and I realize the Alter Cup is a big deal but the TheMightyHobie18 is no longer a big deal boat. If the event was being sailed on F18's or Hobie 16's I would find the result more surprising, simply because of the depth of talent in those fleets, not saying the TheMightyHobie18 guys aren't competitive but I don't believe they are travelling internationally, sailing Olympic events etc. like many of the F18 and H16 sailors are.

Right, which is why we force the rotation of disciplines (S/H uni, D/H sloop, D/H spin), otherwise it becomes meaningful only to the spin sailors.

Using different classes (instead of always H16, A Cat and F18) is intended to make it more challenging.

We will be setting up a new survey soon to check in on our progress.

Mike

haven't been following this as closely as usual. Did you say they were using H 18? I didn't know they even sold those anymore.

Or are they talking that WildCat 18 footer Hobie sells?

If AC is using out-of-production boats, how do/did teams get platforms?

The Alter Cup is a BYOB. (Bring your own boat)
The championship rotates between three disciplines (All BYOB).
Spinnaker, Single handed and Sloop. So Round One was

F16s/ Pensacola
Hobie 16's San Fran
A Class/ Newport

F18s
Hobie 18s are part of the second round.
Perhaps the Isotopes or the Waves will step up for single handed class and complete the cycle next year?

Basically, if your class holds a nationals you would have standing to host the Alter cup.

The small endowment that multihulls control and supports the championship is unique compared to monohulls and the other championships..
US sailing Adult Championships

The provided boats /qualifier was not affordable AND was hostage to the marketplace because you were restricted to classes that were selling in the US. In practice... only spin classes were available and this excluded 2/3s of the sailors from effectively competing. We made the decision to take a minimum draw on the endowment to keep things going.

The change in championship format allows the entire community to have a turn at competing in a high quality championship for a very cool trophy.


Personally, I am DELIGHTED to see Gordon Isco, a true leader in the sport, from the earliest days, out on the race course on a Hobie 18! Proof to me that this format is a great opportunity for all racers in the sport.


If you think the championship should crown the best multihull sailor in the country.... go join the N17 class, the Olympics define the pinnacle of small multi racing.

Looking forward, should the championship committee add a fourth discipline. Large Multi's? eg.. the M32 or the F32's

And/Or should they add a handicap division using SCHRS and grouping Sloops (Hobie 16s, Hobie 18s and Hobie 20s) or Spins (F18s F16s)

Should the Championship Committe refocus the funds on Junior multihull championships?

You can make a strong case for all of these options. As Mike notes.... He will be looking for input and a consensus to work with the championship committee moving forward.

Remember, there are TWO different Committees here with some overlap in membership. Multihull and Championships.

Very interesting debate. I'll state that I think the current format is better than it has been in the past, but I think we need to consider what the Alter Cup actually means? To me, a young guy, it really has no meaning as to me the H16 National Champion or F18 National Champion or N17 National Champion crown the best double-handed multihull sailors. Is this intended to crown the second best, the Portsmouth handicap champ or??

My opinion, F16's and F18's should race more together but I know many do not share that opinion, and I respect that logic as well (reduction of fleet splits, we already have F16/N17/F18 competing for sailors). That being said, I don't think we want a major championship historically sailed in one design boats decided by SCHRS, though the Dutch Texel Open does it and that is without a doubt a very successful event.

Talk the M32 class, I could see them being interested, and probably even bring some money to the table.

I would say focusing on junior multihull sailing is sorely lacking in this country. Very sorely lacking. The kids want to race these fast boats but don't have avenues to them, and we don't have the youth multihull championship avenue that GBR and Europe have, resulting in a slightly less talented NA N17 teams than other countries with such youth opportunities.

While I agree with most that the AC would need to be on single type of boat (not raced PHRF, portsmouth, SCHRS or whatever) I would be hard pressed to find an H17 if I chose to try and qualify for the 2017 AC.

I suspect that limiting the selection of boats to those currently in manufacture would be problematic, as well (especially in affordability criteria)...?

let's see...
Single non-spin:
Wave
A-Cat
Weta (screecher?)

Double non-spin:
H-16

Single spin:
F-16 (maybe?)

Double spin:
F-16
F-18
N-17

Tris & bigger cats
Sprint 750
Weta
(new) stilletto
M32


What other boats are out there being built/sold and have critical mass for AC qualifiers?

I would second the idea of refining the AC as the top event for youth multihull sailing. Not sure how much "weight" an AC win would have on an adult's sailing resume (vs. perhaps a National or World level ranking) when looking for professional type sailing gigs.


I believe there may be several multi platforms for the youngsters which could be suited for the AC if enough youth programs adopted them. Similar to Laser radial or 420... And that may allow for several iterations of AC to use the same platform which would justify the cost of acquisition a bit more than changing platforms every year?

Heck, in a perfect world an AC champion would qualify for the olympic team...

I fully agree that we need to focus on youth and development. Otherwise, the whole thing could crater. Having said that, this is a respected adult championship and we need to work to retain that status.

The youth thing is a real problem. There was not enough interest this year to hold the Stevens Trophy event, and that is not healthy for us at all.

Mike

Well, it's official. Ken and Valerie are your new Hobie Alter Trophy champions! Great story here:

http://www.ussailing.org/multihull16-final/

Mike

Currently being produced does not have to be a criteria.

So, possible single handed classes are Waves, Weta,s Hobie 14... (Still an active World Sailing Class) and Isotopes. I believe all of these classes have a nationals in 2016.

Active sloop classes are Hobie 16s 18s and 20s.

Active spin classes are F16s F18s and of course the N17. I don't think the Nacra 20 or any of the flying boats get a critical mass of 10 boat to an NA's. The pending redesign of the n17 could make thinks problematic tho.

Lots of good choices tho.

It has been a few years ago that I suggested the Super Wave.., Wave with bow sprit and roller furling Hooter. This would accommodate two small kids or one bigger kid. And the cost would be far lower than any other Youth ideas out there.

But, alas, I was ignored.

Build it and make it happen.

Mike

I had always believed this to be true, but perhaps I'm not seeing the attendance at qualifiers needed to establish this as fact?

And your comment about the kids events makes me sad. Any really prominent reason strike you? Affordability of the platforms? Access to quality kid-only courses/races/events?

I mean, seriously, there are a billion optis out bobbing on any given weekend racing in circles. They all just go to Baseball when they turn 12 or something?

There isn't as clear of a pathway for youth cats. Mark has mentioned it before, it's partially a social thing, and partially a college pathway thing. Makes me sad, too.

The main problem with the qualifiers was inconsistency. Some areas were very strong, others were completely lacking. There was a secondary issue with having certified officials running them, but we could have overcome that with better attendance.

The cost of the provided boats was the primary reason for the change to BYOB, and made the qualifiers obsolete.

Personally, I think the lack of qualifiers is a huge problem, as now there's no nation-wide series carrying the US Sailing flag.

Mike

We use Open Bics but we're faced with the same thing.

We hold team practice on Sunday's so we don't have to contend with baseball/volleyball/surfing/etc. What we see is when the kids hit high school, they drop out because if their friends aren't doing it, they aren't doing it. We manage to retain the hardcore kids but the numbers are small.

The hardcore are easy to pick out. They're considering colleges that have sailing programs. One was recruited by a top Oregon school but all they had was a sailing club. Clubs are like intramural sports. She's heading to an east coast school that has a good program.

When I was the Council chairman I started the Fast and Fun program to introduce youth sailors to multihulls. We had Hobie Waves and a semi to transport them. The idea was to travel to clubs around the country and give the young sailors a chance to experience a catamaran. Art Stevens took over the job of running the program and did a good job on the West coast but it never made it around the country and eventually died on the West coast.

Gordon Isco

We certainly remember that! There is a fleet of Nacra 15s being shipped around in a similar fashion, but without the formal program or publicity.

US Sailing is also trying something similar (but borrowing local boats), and providing coaches. Try it Out is the new program.

There isn't an organized path from there. If kids like the boat, what do they do next? Single-boat sailing, even with coaching, is not going to satisfy anyone. They need consistent fleet racing opportunities.

Mike

should any new youth feeder program carry the IOC edict for mixed gender teams?

It seems the two Opti programs I recently observed were dominated by girl sailors. Having the mixed gender teams on multihulls as they move to different boats might keep at least some of them?

Gordy, Fast and Fun is alive and going strong in Seattle. See www.sailsandpoint.org. This year 60 outreach programs using our 12 Hobie Waves. Glad to see you back on the H-18 for the Alter Cup. First time we raced with you was at Lake Whatcom, WA H-18 North Americans, 1982? Caleb and Tom Tarleton.

Don't forget the Hobie 17 for single non spin. Strong event H-17 North Americans with the Alter Cup this year. Talk of returning to the Gorge or Cascade Locks on the Columbia River for the Alter Cup in 2017. Large fleet of H-17's in the Northwest, anxious to see that happen.

From what I've seen, the programs are gender-neutral. Mark reported that the girl sailors were doing a better job than the boys on the cats at the MD Try-it-Out.

The work being done in Seattle and Saratoga are the shining examples to follow. If we could find a way to replicate those programs nationally, we'd be golden.

Mike

Well, I will postulated that th kids are no different here than there. So it must be something else... parents? organizers? climate? Coriolus effect? Lead Pipes?

I got over 70 very talented kids out sailing Nacra 15s at the following clubs this summer. The pool of kids is out there. It has NOTHING to do with college sailing or what is currently being sailed in Junior Sailing. All we need to do is tap into the kids that are out there sailing in the junior sailing world and show them that there is another way. It won't be for everyone, but if we pick up some then we have invested in the future of catamaran sailing and to me that is the best thing that I feel can ever happen. I've put no pressure on anyone to buy a boat but I'm of course encouraging it if they express interest and trying to get them involved in multihull sailing of any form afterwards.
A little bit thrown off by Mike's comment about the PR... woud have loved to do more but it was a grassroots effort funded by Nacra to get kids exposed to high performance multihulls. I tried my best to publicize it on Facebook, but I realize not everyone else is on there. I need to do some other press releases but it's tough being a one man show. Any support from the Cat Sailing scene would be great but to be honest $ is the biggest road block for getting it to more clubs, I can't drive it hundreds of miles from one club to another and still make it affordable. Probably why the Fast and Fun died on the West Coast.
I'm also doing a 3 day clinic for some teams this weekend in Newport and have the U.S. Sailing Youth Development Director coming down to check it out and getting about 16 more kids out before the trailer heads to Florida for the Youth Multihull National Challenge. I've also been working hand in hand with US Sailing Olympic Development Program and the 15 will be involved in this program very soon.
This is in Lieu of the multihull class being sailed at the US Sailing Youth Champs and because the Aurthur Stevens Trophy was not given away there it can't be given out this year, trust me I tried.
Yacht Clubs we did Nacra 15 demos at this summer:
Chicago Yacht Club
American Yacht Club
Roton Point Sailing Association
Norwalk Yacht Club
East Greenwich Yacht Club
Sail Newport

-Todd Riccardi
Nacra North America

That wasn't a slam, Todd. You simply didn't have the program-level PR that Fast and Fun did. Maybe over the winter, you can build a formal campaign to grow on the success of this year.

Mike

Todd, are the kids you got sailing connected to your FB page?

Could your kids/boats be lured to some of the local regattas? Or is that where you were doing it anyway?