Invention ideas??

It seems like almost all sailors are tinkerers, inventors, closet boat designers. All of us are constantly trying to think of newer, better, faster, easier, more efficient (or more complicated), cheaper (which sometimes end up being more expensive) ways of doing things.

So what have you invented, or what would you like to see somebody invent -- related in some way to sailing, of course?

Just as a trivial example, I was thinking that for regattas that provide lunches to all the sailors on the water, it would be neat to have some kind of inexpensive, waterproof, floating container to put the individual lunches in, so lunches could be thrown to the sailors, and if it missed, no problem because it would float, and getting your lunch would turn into a man-overboard retrieval drill. (In this case the incentive would be hunger.) Maybe something made out of bubble-wrap?

And why can't somebody invent a mast flotation device that the serious sailors will accept?
Why can't somebody invent an anti-lightning device?
Why don't the wetsuit and drysuit manufacturers come up with products that allow for both men and women to eliminate without stripping? I'm sure the astronauts have this figured out somehow.
I invented the "auto-park" system to keep your boat in a parked position on the water so you can work on things -- especially useful for single-handers, but I would want it on any beach-cat. But nobody seems to be interested. That's the trouble with some inventions -- the inventor is the only one who cares about it.

I figure this is a thread that could go on forever.....

P.S. There is already a very long thread on various ways to make storage boxes for your trailer, so if you have something on that particular topic, you can add to that one.

i am always tinkering. two of the most usefull things i made were a furling system for my prindle 16 that cost less than $100 for the whole thing installed. it works great andthe other thing is a sail timer, but not just a plain sail timer. i have a garmin gpsmap 176 that i use when i race on monohulls. it has just about everything except a countdown timer. it has the capability of displaying water temperature if receiving data from a nmea device. the timer i built outputs the remaining time and all other numbers to be displayed on the nmea temperature sentence. it has only a power switch and one button. pressing and holding the button places it in set mode. it counts up by minutes incrementing every second. after you let the button go, it waits for another press of the button to begin the countdown. the time is displayed on the gps display.

if you like that, it gets better. after the race starts it changes mode and becomes a tactical compass. it reads the heading from the gps and compares it to the heading it was at when you pressed the button (you set the starting heading each time you tack by pressing the button). it subtracts the starting heading from the current heading, does some math to determine if there is a head or lift and displays the angle in positive or negative degrees. when you mark the starting heading for the tack it samples the heading for 5 seconds and then averages the headings over the 5 seconds to take into account any quick adjustments the skipper makes to the heading at the beginning of the tack.

i built the timer/compass for about $70. it is a small microcomputer in a case that is about 3" x 2" x 3/4" with the button and power switch in the case. it could easily be smaller and have a remote button or buttons without much modification.

i figure when i buy my monohull (i'll also keep the prindle) i can mount it below with the other instruments and have a remote button in the **** area for racing.

I think of sailors as great improvisors...

[color:"red"]Take what you have at hand at a moments notice in the face of grave danger and at great personal peril to fix a problem that inexplicably pops up at the most inopportune time… without loosing position on the race course. [/color]

I'm actually interersted in making current systems better.

For instance the mast rotation system on my H17. It sucks. I don't like it at all. I'm always checking out other boats then trying to "rig" something similar, even if its not class legal. My Jib sheeting setup resembles more of a TheMightyHobie18 than a 17 sport. I'm also trying to put together some beach wheels just because I'm a college student thats not afraid of taking chances with my personal health :P

I'd like to see a Hydrofoil kit that I could just buy and bolt on to my hulls and take off like those neato windriders. Alas, nobody has the time or patience to do something like that though.

Mary,

A long time ago a thread was started about asymetric daggerboards or tacking daggerboards. It still rank among the most read ones. Afterwards, there was another thread about the use of tacking daggerboards in the 505 (mono) class.

Both concepts are good and deserve being developed, but, as you probably already know, my favorite is your idea of a "speed improving chiken float" - a masthead float that would actually improve speed.

A guy who works with aerodinamics told me that it should be feasible and the improvement in safety is certainly worth the work. We won't name it after you, though, because some people could insist in calling it chicken float .

Cheers,
Luiz

Luiz,
Perhaps "chicken" float would be appropriate, since I grew up on a chicken farm.

Mary

No way. If having your name exchanged with "chicken" from time to time is no offense or embarassment to you, then you can choose one of the following:

"Mary's Float"
"Mary's Fast Float"
"Mary's Topmast Float"
"Mary's Power Float"
"Holy Mary"

Or invent another name you prefer. But you deserve to name it, because it was your idea - we all read about it in the magazine.

Cheers,
Luiz

1. I built a box that we put on the rear crossbar of our Nacra 6.0 to help us raise the mast. It is approximately 28" high, and when the mast is connected to the ball at the base, it gives a much better angle to start lifting the mast from.

2. I installed a temporary gin pole on the trailer between the front crossbar and the mast support. This allows for a better angle for raising the mast using the trailer winch.

3. I also built a light bar which hangs from the 6.0 rudder castings so the trailer lights can be easily removed for either trailer launching or just to prevent mechanical damage.

That's all I can think of right now.

A few years ago I kicked around the idea of a masthead float that would improve performance. Using a square top main and placing a foil on top to form a T. This would stop the air from spilling off the top and make the top more powerful. Much like the winglets found on modern aircraft.

Of course the problem is would it be class legal? Would you want that thing slicing down at you if the boat next to you capsizes?

I think for it to work a manufacturer will have to get involved a design a boat that uses it.

Mike Catley

Hi,
I Would be very interested in idea nr. 1
Do you have a picture or drawing ?

MauganH17,

If you had the time, I would like to learn more about modifications or ideas for the H17 that you have come up with. I am 'bringing one back from the dead' and will have it ready by spring, the only mods I have so far are a homemade bridle spreader made from an old H14 boom and I have not decided to set it up boomless or not, but if I use a boom I may use a TheMightyHobie18 or even a H16 style gooseneck to et the boom up a little.

If you had time for a discription that would be great!!

Thanks,

Mike
P16
H17 (in progress)

The idea should work.
It could be executed with soft material (foam, for example) to avoid injuries from accidents.
It would not be class legal, initially, but if the concept worked, people would actually insist in making it class legal, because it improves speed AND safety. Even race organizers would insist to make it mandatory. That's why it is such a good idea.

Cheers,
Luiz

Couple nice things about it, You would be able to get the same performance with a shorter mast ie. less drag and more efficient sail. Righting the boat and stepping the mast would be easier..shorter mast.

Mike

Any inventors out there know how to rig a headsail pole from a forward crossbeam? Here's the requirments:

1. Nothing concerning the pole should come aft of the forward crossbeam.

2. It's gotta be strong and stable enough to handle a Hooter and decent wind.

3. It has to be something I can make fairly cheaply, that uses readily available parts

4. The less complicated the better.

My idea was this:
Using two windsurfer-mast sections- Connect the base of each where the forward beam connects to the hull on each side. Angle the tops inward and connect them together so they form a triangle. Run control wires from the tip of each to their respective bow (this should also be able to induce pre-bend). Hang the furler below and just aft of where the tips connect.

This should give me a base with four attachment points and enough stability and strength to handle the sail while leaving the forward trampoline free of obstructions.

Any coments or entirely different approaches?

The arrangement you describe does not have anything holding it "up", so I guess you must use a Hooter, or something with halyard in luff, you can't use spinnaker that is doused, right?
I think you might also consider the angles involved. How high above bow tips is the tip of the pole (apex of triangle) going to be? Will force on bow tips be upward, or all inward?

It looks like your setup would work well.

I am curious about one thing:

By "forward crossbeam" you mean a third crossbeam in front of the main (mast) crossbeam, am I correct?

If this is the case, then your setup is better then the usual spinaker pole setup because chances are that a forward crossbeam is not designed to support the additional load in the middle.

If you don't want a forestay to keep the tip up, maybe you could use rigid bridles (carbon would be best but wood or aluminum are fine too). Just raise the tip enough to avoid that the bridles are in the same plane as the former masts and it will stay in place.

Cheers,

I suppose I should've mentioned that I plan on running a Hooter. I did mention the furling drum somewhere... a small wire stay and the halyard would run from there to somewhere up the mast.

I would want the sail to mount fairly low to keep the CE down about as much as I can. I don't know what the forces would be, but with a hooter I'd believe they are primarily inwards, similar to a jib....

Luiz-
Yes, I have forward crossbeam, not a bow foil.

Here is a picture of the factory-intended set-up.
Instead, I shackle the tack of the Jib right to the eyestrap on the forward crossbeam and use a H-16 style jib halyard "up-hual" to adjust luff tension. It keeps the CE low, was very simple to rig, and allows one line to do both jobs, creating less clutter.

I am reviving this 2-year-old thread, because I have an idea for something. Probably already exists, because that usually turns out to be the case, but I haven't heard of it.

How about a digital "level" to install on beach cats (or big multihulls, too)? An attitude detector.

Everyone who races beach cats knows that weight distribution is very important to speed. And the reason weight distribution is important is that you have to try to maintain a certain fore-and-aft attitude of the boat in the water for maximum speed, as well as a certain optimal lateral attitude (amount of heel).

Of course, I don't believe in looking at a lot of instruments when you are actually racing, but it could be a valuable training tool so you can find out what angles and attitudes work best for your particular boat in various wind conditions.

So what we need is a digital read-out "level" that will show the boat's fore-and-aft and sideways attitudes in the water. If these digital attitude read-outs can be correlated with GPS speed readings, you have one more tool to figure out exactly how to balance the boat weightdistributionwise for maximum speed.

I know that there is a safety device for big multihulls that senses the amount of heel, and if it gets beyond a certain point, sheets are automatically released. But what I am talking about is a lot more sophisticated.

What do you think?

For the benefit of novice racers, there could be an alarm that goes off when they are sitting on the back of the boat and dragging the sterns in light air and they need to move forward. Or when the bows are digging in too much in heavy air and they need to move back.

It could drive sailors crazy! It could be called BAD (Boat Attitude Detector).

P.S. If YOU have an invention idea, please look at my original post on this thread and read through the whole thread, because maybe somebody has already thought of it, or something similar, to which you can add more ideas.

Maybe someone should look at the system with 2 thin carbon fiber "sticks" that hold up a conventional spinnaker pole on Marstrom M-20s and A-cats. This appears to be advantageous, altho I don't know why, having never seen one in person. (There is no forward crossbar here because this is a modern design).

Dave,

There is no advantage to the M20/M18 setup. The double bridle setup when flying a spi is not very nice. It tends to foil up manouvres with the spi. Best for spi sailing is the single forestay with a bridle setup. When you do this then the traditional spi pole setup with lines is easiest, cheapest and best.

Wouter

Dave,Robbie Daniels had a M20 here for some time so I got a chance to check it out. I think the only reason they used the "carbon sticks" is because everything on the boat is carbon.

I know this is a revival of a revival, but I'd love to see pics of 1 and 2. A gin-pole/A-frame/ angle-improver setup is relatively easy to work out. My problem is how to slide a 31ft mast out past the rear crossbeam and support it with it turned 90 degrees to get it onto the ball and then limit the mast turning back straight until the downhaul is clear as it's lifted with a winch/gin-pole arrangement.


Working on the non-"chicken float" chicken float. Some time in a wind tunnel sure would help.

Here is an idea that was suggested to me by an "old Salt" but I haven't tried it .....yet. It makes some sense since I too, have the type of mast that requires a 90 degree turn.
He thought I should rivet another tang on the side of the mast (so that the pull would naturally turn the mast 90 degrees) and abandon the forestay as what I attach to the winch. I haven't done it yet because I don't want to drill more holes in the mast # 1 and # 2 I haven't figured out how I would attach a line to the tang that didn't have to be left in place while I was sailing.
For holding the mast in place at 90 degrees I just fabricated a PVC pole with a "V" on top and bottom that rests on the ground but holds the mast on its side 6 feet off the ground behind the rear beam. I use the pole to help lift the mast while my helper cranks the winch. With the 6 foot pole I can lift it high enough without having to climb onto the tramp.

Let me know if you can think of another/better way. I'm all ears.

Greg

how about someone post EASY to make, relatively inexpensive cat wheels? I bought a used set and.. well... I have spent more money on them than if I had just bought brand new ones! But it seems like 400$ is a little excessive for something that seems so simple.

That'll be the best 400bucks you ever spent. I want a combo Lifejacket-harness !

yeah, I know... but if I were to buy new ones now the total cost would be something like 700$!!!! my stupidity for not getting new ones to start with, but still.

How about a telescoping mast? That would certainly make set up soooo much easier! Has anyone ever tried this??

Hydraulic or Telekinetic?

With all the talk about having a float "Bob" on the top of the mast, why not an inflatable float on the top with tubing down to a CO2 cartridge or inflation device that you trigger if the boat goes over. You could deflate it after you right the boat.

Howard

Now THAT'S funny!

Why not Virtual?

How about mechanical. It could have a system of blocks and pulleys inside and a line you pull on the outside to telescope it to its full length and then to release it. I wonder if anyone has tried something like this. It would certainly be an expensive mast, (and heavier also).

Am I wrong or do they have a cat with telescoping crossbars to increase beam?

Although telekinetic WOULD be the best!
Heck!! I wish I could make the entire set up Telekinetic!
That would certainly draw people to catamaran sailing! IN FACT THAT'S IT!!!! THE FIRST GUY THAT INVENTS THE FIRST TELEKINETICALLY SET UP CATAMARAN WILL MAKE MILLIONS!!!!

I can't do it. My ears start smoking when I try!

how about some rig where as you push the boat of the trailer a line pulls the mast up,is that a catastophy waiting to happen or what? I think city officials should open more beach mast up storage so we would'nt have to invent this particular method.

Take a look at the WaterWorld movie again if you need sailing ideas. Lots of nifty telekinetic stuff there- except the non-sailing part of the flick that was Hollywood crap. I heard Randy Smyth did some of the sailing bits.

There was a system like this. Inflatable ball at the top,tubing and co2 cartridge at the bottom. I don't think it was auto though.

Someone even posted an advertisement selling the device. I think today it could be automatic because they have the life vests that open on contact with water. Here is a thought...... IF the top of the mast had a foil as Mike Catley proposed and IF the ends of the foil had this inflation device would it not be able to lift the entire mast out of the water and get it to that critical spot where the boat is tipped enough to make righting that much easier?????? What I mean to say is that the wind would be able to affect the lifting of the sails and the hulls would be tipped to at least perpendicular to the water surface so in theory wouldn't that make the craft VERY easy to right? Would that not be another selling point??

Greg

The whole idea of a mast float is to keep the boat from going turtle. Righting is a different problem.

You guys need to think about towing your boats backwards. Makes putting the mast up much easier.

Mike. You mean with the sail on?? I can see how towing the boat backwards with the sail on might help bring the mast up. .....and back down with chunks of hull attached to the shrouds

Back to the telekenisis bit. I guess all catamarans ARE telekinetically assemblable. The sailors are the ones who have to learn telekenisis. Rick?.... Can you add that to one of your seminars??

I have seen enough masts dropped to steer clear of anyone hoisting it up, no matter how firm their grip appears.
The thought of the average sailor telekineticaly stepping their mast, well, the slightest distraction, and crash!
"Wanna Beer" (crash) short shorts (crash)bikini(crash) "What's your sail number?" (crash) now let's think where the shroud pin is? (crash)
I think the increased liability would exceed the advantage of not holding the mast as you hoist it into the power line...?

The mind is a terrible thing....

Are you stepping the mast with boat on the trailer backwards? If so what are the advantages to this? My Mystere 6.0 has no pins ("So every body get to hell out of the Way")in the mast base and so I tie it off using a fairlead on the mast near the base to another on the beam centre.Get on the tramp lift and push it upright and get somone to pin it. Now if there was a trailer A' la' tornado cat or Mrarstom I think, that tilted sideways enough to pivot the hulls vertical so you could attach the mast base and then walk mast till it was perpendicular, pin it to the bridle then swing the whole boat mast up, horizontal. Or you could compile all my ideas' on video take them down to parks' and recs' and they will probably be willing to give you mast up storage on a beach all by yourselves.

My latest invention (I'm going for the prize) is a lifejacket that makes me look buff. You know fat guys would wear them if I could do that!

good luck with that!

i have been making ritual wind indicators using model airplane technology for years. think of a hand launch glider fuselage with a wire shaft through the balance point, minus the wing and elevator. some of my early ones were made with balsa, bamboo, feathers, and decorative colored thread wrapping with shaft bearings similar to a rubber powered model plane. my recent versions have a colorful soda straw fuselage, vane made from half the bottom of a styro coffee cup (shaped and sanded), with a piece of sharpened pencil for an adjustable nose weight. these things are very sensitive and move in the slightest puff. they only last a few months so i am repeatedly reinventing them. wind seeker icons.

Good Idea.


GARY

As for limiting the mast from the 90 degree position:
I have a non-stretch line on a the winch which goes through a block setup up at the top of the mast support on the trailer. The height is just right for leveraging the mast once it's on the ball and raised about a foot or two off the rear crossbeam. I attach the line around the mast above the spreader and tie it back onto itself with a trucker's loop(I make the loop point the same as the forstay end length to allow me to untie once the mast is up). This keeps the mast at 90 degrees when raising.
For side to side control I use my jib blocks with cleats clipped to two eyelets on my trailer cross member on either side of the front crossbeam. The jib sheet is then attached to a trap wire per side.
So from one position I can crank the winch, raisng the mast and steady the side to side motion with the jib sheet.
There's room for improvement but since I only set this up once or twice per season it works for me.

Tim

I do have my boat backwards on the trailer.It's just a lot easier to set it up by myself. I have a pin for mine, most tie on though. I tie my spin. halyard to the front spin. pole tang before raising. After I raise it I pull that and cleat it then jump down and pin it. The only real negative to doing it this way is if you drop it your car takes the hit. I think the big advantage is the angle of the mast before raising.I neeed to get my mast support modified so I can slide it up and pin it. My goal is to be able to get my shoulder under the mast before I start to push up. A lot easier on the back. I'll take some pic's this weekend and post them next week.

We had a guy here with a 18sq. He modified his tilt trailer. He added a 5hp gas motor and hydraulic pump and hydraulic ram. Tilting his boat for trailering took seconds. A tweak to the geometry and your idea would work.

And Bob,just so you know,I understand your posts. Must be a Canadian boat thing. LOL.

Mike,

If I understand what you are doing, you rest the mast on the car to hold it high enough to help when you raise it. I have an H-16 and made a tripod that I set the mast on to hold it up when I raise it. That may be a way for you to hold the mast up (and turn the boat around on the trailer). I extend the jib halyard with a length of line and tie it off similar to what you describe, then pin the forestay. The tripod is 3 poles and some rope, not much to it.

Howard

Here's one from a old Hobiecat magazine.


Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio

No the the mast stays in the front mast support.(thats the front of the trailer) That does the same job as your tripod. After I untie the mast I stand on the tongue of the trailer and slide the mast until the diamond wires are over or past the mast support. Then I go to the other end lift the mast out of that support and slide it back and pin it. So when I stand on the back of the boat the mast is about chest high before I start raising.

Not an invention so we've hijacked this thread.

Towing backwards (stern forward) solves a lot of problems if stepping solo. On our beach you can regularly see solo mast stepping on all kind of boats like Mike's Mystere 6.0 as well as a Mystere 5.5, 5.0 and 4.3, a P19, P18, P16, GCat 5.7 & 5.0, Hobie 16, 18 and 20, and ALL Darts. I think Smitty even runs his I-20 this way.

Here is a photo of my M5.0 with the mast in the trailer cradle as I begin my lift, mast pinned with a long screwdriver. The downhill slant holds the mast past vertical as I step forward to clip the forestay. Quick, easy, solo; NO INVENTION other than a good idea. Note the P18 doing the same in the background.

Now I know why the cradles are on the front of the trailer,I have been towing the boat bow forward there was too much room in the cradles. No wonder I've been doing so crappy in the racing scene I'm towing the boat backwards!

Sure beats sailing your boat backwards... That, from what everyone tells me, IS SLOW>

Nice Dave,

Now I don't have to take any PIC's. And your probably right, this isn't an invention. In fact it kills the need to invent ways of supporting the mast like tri pods. Bummer.

Dave I think it's fair to say this is a "developing" thread.

Developing Thread:

The earliest humans in the hunter gather stage made clothing out of animal skins. Only as civilization developed did weaving and more sophisticated clothing production begin.

Spinning Threads

Using fibers both animal and plant to create textiles necesitated the conversion of those fibers into actual threads. The production of threads and yarns was a major step in the development of civilization. Twisting fibers to produce threads is known as spinning. It is a necessary step before further operations such as sewing, weaving, and knitting can proceed. Primnitive man probably first use rocks for spinning thread. Archaeologists theorize that rocks were commonly use by primitive peoples for spinning thread, but can not conclusively prove it. As the first humans to spin thread were nomadic pre-agrarian peoples, there is little archeological evidence. No one knows when man first began to refine spinning technology. It appears to have been independently developed in several different civilizations. Historians estimate that humans first began spinning threads about 10,000 years ago. Through much of history the only spinning device used was the dropspindle. Medieval European spinners often used a distaff to hold their fibers while they were spun on to spindle. This was commonly done at home by the women and children. The term “distaff side” today has come to mean the maternal side of one's family. Wool and flax in Europe were most commonly spun materials with a distaff and dropspindle. The distaff was a forked stick or staff around which a a bundle of cotton, flax, silk, flax, or other raw fiber was placed. The distaff was either held in one hand or secured in a waistbelt. The spindle was a tappering rod which was rotated by hand and twisted the raw fiber into a usable fiber. This dropspindle was the primary device used to spin threads for clothing and other textiles for most of European histopry from Egyptian mummy wrappings to the fabulous tapestries of Medieval Europe. It was effective, but was labor intensive, requiring an enonrmous amount of labor. This and the equally labor intensive weaving process made clothing in the ancient and Medieval era exceedingly expensive. Archeologists in the Middle East have found hand spindle whorls dating to 5000 BC in Middle Eastern excavation sites. One historian suggests that since the wheel does not appear until about 3500 BC, the use of dropspindles may have lead primitive man to discover the wheel. Perhaps during the endless hours of spinning fiber, man may have realized that the rotation of a spindle whorl of a spindle, man may have experimented perhaps by accident with that rotation, by dropping or placing it on a vertical instead of a horizontal plane--creating the wheel.

The Spinning Wheel

Using fibers both animal and plant to create textiles necesitated the conversion of those fibers into actual threads. The enormous length of silk threads created a huge need for some kind of winding device. Silk in China may date from the 27th century BC, although some authors give more conservative estimates, most agrree it was before the 14th century BC. No one knows when the Chinese first fiber winding machines, but they appear to have been developed out of a need to form silk treads out of silk fibers. There is mention of silk fiber winding devices in Chinese dictionaries by the 2nd century AD. The initial devices were quilling machines which may date to the 1st century BC. Actual spinning wheels. No one knows when they first appeared in China. It is known that spinning wheels were being widely used in China by the 11th century. By that time, cotton culture had developed in China and spinning wheels appear to have been a way of adapting silk winders so that cotton fibers could be created. Historians believe that the the spinning wheel was one of the devices that Marco Polo brought back to Italy from China. While this is conjecture, there is no evidence of spinning wheels being used in Europe until the late 13th century.

Weaving

Weaving is the interlacing of threads, yarns, strips or other fiberous material. It is primarily associated with the production of fabric for clothing, but other items are also woven such as baskets. Weaving is well established in aiciet socities where it was generally relegated to women. While weaving has pre-historic orgins, many technical developments over a long period have led to modern industrial weaving mills.

Cloth in CatSailing

Cloth is a very important part of catamaran sailing.

Nice Gary,
Dave your right it's been JACKED.

I saw this the other day. A novel way to cruise on a light air day, and get some excercise. Now to put a sail on it.
http://www.shuttlebike.it/articolo_in_costruzione.htm

and

www.shuttlebike.com

Welcome to Triathalon race developement

In the world of human powered boats, the Trampofoil reigns supreme for oddity. Maybe combine it with a small kite.

If it wasn't for the fact that you can't water start I'd be queueing up to buy one of those!

Wait til' you see the look on those fish when you go by on that in scuba gear though.

Someone apparently took my comment about tiller extensions to heart because I'm told that there are some new high-tech-low-weight-easy-locking hiking sticks now available.

Flying off shelves!

speaking of hiking sticks...mine is pvc tubing: very light, cheap, flexible, and effective. the tubing was forced over the cut off inner 1' end of the original H16 fg extension and fixed with a machine screw. the outer end has a pvc end cap cemented in place so it can't fill with water.

"speaking of hiking sticks...mine is pvc tubing"

what about telescoping?