The perfect place for a cat sailor to live?

If money were no object and you could choose to live in your personal idea of catamaran sailing heaven, where would it be? And if you don't know, what is your vision of what the perfect place would be like?

78 degree water and 12 knots wind all year long. even at night. no bugs, 95 degrees and 60% relative humidity all the time, and free beer. something like guinness. none of that watered down stuff.

one more thing, NO PWCs.

charleston harbor sc, oh, yeah, watch out for the 900' container ships. they will sneak up on you and blow their horn which will rattle your jaw. and when the conditions are perfect, like dave's world, you can go outside. i will agree with the free beer part

I'd have two homes:

May-Sept (Summer) - Yankton, South Dakota, Hobie Beach on Lewis & Clark Lake. Big, deep lake, no wet suit needed, a beach for beachcats only, cheap camping and during the week there is practically no one on the lake.

Sept - May (Winter) Lake Mead, AZ/NV. Huge body of water with dry winds. Winter low pressure bring nice winds. Vegas is 30min away!

Sounds like Kaneohe bay to me (O'ahu)! But the winds are more like 12-25 and temps +/- 87 year round. You could get one of those houses with bay frontage and just launch right off your front lawn...

Of course, we are deep into the price is no object teritory here!

Drew

regarding those houses, i'll take three, and one of them man sized beers, the guinness, none of that watered down stuff.

Some place where theres "0" cell phone service...

thom

The criteria may not have included cat sailing, but the A&E Channel chose Burlington, Vermont as their top city in the US to live.

Top Ten Cities to Have It All

You warm weather lovers may not agree, though, given that the temps here did not get above single digits today. The cold has its benefits, though. Many of the folks who come here during the summer dream of moving to the state, until they experience the winter. The cold is our best form of growth control.

After staying with you guys in 1998, I would say you are. If 99% of my renters were cat sailors, and that were my only occupation, I could be pretty happy.
David Mosley
www.seacats.org
Columbia S. Carolina NOAA website

Right next to my two favorite catsailors in the world: Mary Wells and Rick White!

It would be a lot more convenient to shoot new videos, and I could live off the proceeds. When I was winning races, I could credit Rick and Mary. When I was losing, I could blame it on them too. After all, if you're going to take credit, you also have to be willing to take the blame!

Sail faster,

Tim J.

Mary,

This is an issue I am very interested, for I plan to live this situation, eventually (hopefully?).

Before my reply, please note that I don't know enough about the conditions in the US (lots of participants can give a better input), know only part of the Caribean ( the residents will probably give a better informed opinion) and the place I know better is Brazil.

Also, I never needed to owe a wet suit or heavy weather suit due to the mild weather conditions prevailing in this area of South America. (but the price of tropical sailing is a worn out skin - sun protection lotions are necessary ALL the time - even when fully dressed, according to physicians)

Anyway, for this tropical South America sailor, the perfect parameters seem to be the following:

1) location very close to the tropics (15 to 25 deg. North or South) for ideal temperatures all year round.

2) trade winds.

3) a mix of clean protected waters and offshore sailing access, ideally a lagoon opened to the sea + a reef protected beech + open sea. A bay or river mouth is less desirable due to the tendency to have big cities and heavy economic activities (dirtyness, polution, etc.) in the vicinity

4) white sand beaches, for obvious reasons.

5) Enough infrastructure to assure the beer, spare parts and other amenities - but not too much, otherwise the peace is spoiled.

6) Racing and cruising activities nearby - nice cruising destinations available for day sailing.

7) Weak currency (to make the money last longer)

Based on my limited life experience, the following places fit the description:

a) a Caribean island. Possibly Cayman, one of the Bahamas, the Grenadines, etc. We assumed that money is not a problem, but prices are high, due to the proximity of some US milionaires...

b) The Buzios / Cabo Frio region, north of Rio, Brazil. A great place. Salt water lagoon, protected and offshore waters, easy access, close enough to Rio for infrastructure, currents maintain the water clear and the wind is perfect.

c) Angra dos Reis, South of Rio. The wind is lighter then Buzios, but there are 365 islands to visit, among other cruising destinations. Even better infrastructure. The nuclear plant could spoil all this one day, though.

d) Beaches close to selected cities in the Northeastern coast of Brazil, like Aracaju, Maceió, Natal and Salvador - they lok like the Caribean. Only a bit too close to the Equator and with less sailing activities (but this will be seen as an advantage by some...).

e) Beaches in the island of Florianopolis, Brazil. A bit less paradisiacal, but much more civilized. Only a bit colder due to not being tropical.

I look forward to the input of the Europeans, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans and maybe someone with asian experience.

Cheers,

Luiz,
In those places is it possible to actually have a waterfront home, so you could keep your boat right there on the beach in front of your house? If that is not an option, can you leave your boat on any of those beaches, mast up, and not worry about it being stolen or vandalized? Are there sailing clubs or catamaran fleets in those areas where boats can be left permanently? When you live in a sailing paradise, you want to be able to just put up your sails and go whenever the mood strikes you. I would think that would be one of the ultimate priorities.

That would be on my (dream!) 40 foot catamaran, hoping from an island to another, with some ocean crossing from time to time. A good sailboard on board would compensate the lack of a beach cat.

I live on St Croix in the USVI....we have the good fortune to be able to sail pretty much all year round,,except for an occasional hurricane its pretty much a sailors heaven....living right on the water is certainly a nice plus,,,but also very expensive...Im about 15 min from the yacht club where I keep my boat right on the beach...the summer highs are in the upper 80s while our winter is the low 80s,,,tough to take but we mamage..lol...the water temp drops below 80s so we pull out the wetsuits...the trade winds are pretty good all year...the norm in the winter is 10-20...summer there are some lulls but not bad at all....but the warm weather all year round is the best,,,,

>In those places is it possible to actually have a waterfront home, so you could keep your boat right there on the beach in front of your house?

You can. Prices go up as you approach the waterfront, but are lower then the US, for similar locations.
Buzios is the most expensive followed by Angra and Florianopolis. The Northeastern coast is a lot cheaper. Needless to say, prices depend on the exact location within the region.

An interesting fact: the Brazilian law establishes that all islands and all land 150 m from the high tide line are public property. "Waterfront property" does not assure exclusive access rights.

>If that is not an option, can you leave your boat on any of those beaches, mast up, and not worry about it being stolen or vandalized?

Depends on the specific beach we are talking about. As a rule, when you move away from the big cities/downtown things get safer.

> Are there sailing clubs or catamaran fleets in those areas where boats can be left permanently?

No catamaran fleets exist outside the main yacht clubs. Small sailing clubs are present in all this places, generally close to downtown and sometimes in less atractive - but sheltered - locations. Note that prices are not nearly comparable with the US. Also, there is no atitude or discrimination against multihullers. Actually, most clubs are small and new members are wellcome. (exceptions are the main three or four traditional clubs located in big cities like Rio - but those do not fit all the required conditions).

An interesting fact: in the northeast, fishermen (called "jangadeiros") have their home close to the sea and live their small sailboats in the beach. They are very easy going people and accept to take care of our "fancy toys" for a few bucks - even out of friendship, after it is established - but only if you are also nice.

The number of "Jangadas" in the area is estimated to be at least in the thousands, maybe tens of thousands - but no one knows for sure.

Cheers,
Luiz

Jacques,

As you probably know, Frenchmen are the most frequent sailing visitors to Brasil. Right now, there is a big group of cruising multihulls wandering around the country.

There is even a frenchmen in Aracaju producing multihulls and exporting to France. He is building an 80 ft carbon cat now (among others), but I am afraid I don't know much about his operation.

About one year ago in Angra, I met Cristophe Barreau (designer of the Catanas) who was finishing his one year sailing vacations spent on board a Catana with his wife and two girls. He also liked very much the region.

The popularity of Brazil as a sailing destination in France increased a lot after Eric Tabarly visited Angra when Pen Duick V (the black ketch with uranium keel) stopped in Rio during the second round the world race. He went to a friend's house there and obviously liked it very much.

Almost all of his crew are now top multihull sailors and influence the multihull - and sailing - comunity there.

Cheers,
Luiz

How much would a couple with two kids spend to live there - consider your lifestyle?
Does one have to be a US citizen (immigrations restrictions)?

Thanks,
Luiz

Sounds almost perfect - but for the hurricanes.
I forgot to mention that there are no hurricanes, vulcanos, earthquakes, tidal waves or any other natural disasters in Brazil. The only disaster is part of the population... (just a joke, of course).

How much would a couple with two kids spend to live in the US Virgin Islands - considering your lifestyle?
Does one have to be a US citizen (any special immigrations restrictions)?

Thanks,

I'm sorry to say this but having lived in Latin American I can tell you that petty theft is a constant and rampant problem in the islands and on the continent. If it isn't welded in place, it's gone. Americans are constant targets for thievery. "Panales hurrican" on the windows of one's house is only just enough protection to keep out the theives for a while. A "house sitter" is a necessity for long absences and then you may not be able to trust the sitter for very long.

The thinking by the local populace is that norteamericanos can well afford to replace whatever is stolen. "Respeto" for one's property if you are a norteamericano is not widely practiced.

The playas in the rural parts are generally the most likely places to have something stolen because, (1) it's less populated so the crime will less likely be witnessed, (2) the young people are much poorer and are more tempted, and (3) the local police will overlook the incidents as a minor problem and the young thieves take advantage of the practice. I finally started placing the broken rental car windows, windshield wipers, stolen watches, shoes, cameras, clothes, towels, suntan lotion, etc. on my expense account. It's a cost of doing business down there. You could be six feet away from your beach towel and have it taken. Mind you we did not look, talk or act like touristas from Hicksvilee, either.

Brazil would be a perfect place for sailors but the polarization of the classes is too striking to make it a desirable place to live unless you are born of the culture. There are many sociological and political factors to consider when moving to the perfect place for sailing.

Dean,

I tend to agree with your evaluation, especially with regards to the big cities and their vicinities. In Brazil the worse cases are Rio and Sao Paulo. But the chances of such places being included in the list of eligible cat sailor's paradises are as remote as New York's...

It is probably incorrect to apply your Latin American experience to ALL places and ALL people in Brazil, especially most of those simple fishermen living from their work in unspoiled beaches, far from the capitals.

Remember that the country is bigger then the contiguous continental US and it would not be fair to judge Boston or US Virgin Islands after an experience of living in Miami, for example.

That said, my statement is true:

"They will care for your things out of friendship - if you are nice to them".

But maybe I should have added - "...otherwise, you are just a rich (foreign) guy - and worth taking advantage of"

Take care,

Hi luiz

I think I know the guy in the process to take over the shipyard building this 80 ft cat (Van Peteghem Lauriot Prevost architects?), he is a very good friend, living in Ft Lauderdale. He got converted to multihulls after a long career on monos. Outremer catamarans are to my opinion the best compromise between weight/cost/performance on the market for now. Do you know these boats? I know there are some in the area.

Look at their site:http://www.catamaran-outremer.com/

-- An interesting fact: the Brazilian law establishes that all islands and all land 150 m from the high tide line are public property. "Waterfront property" does not assure exclusive access rights --

We have the same law in France: the principe is "Sea belongs to everybody". Great.
Living in US, I am always upset when I see beach front access barred by big signs "Do not trespass -- Private property". Something wrong.

While we do struggle to maintain access to waterfronts in the US, we do have a thing called the Public Trust Doctrine. Rooted in ancient Roman law that said that the rights to navigation, fishing, etc. belong to the public, the doctrine states that "navigable waters and the lands that lie beneath them" belong in the public trust. The part that is arguable, however, is to what extent the doctrine applies. When the waters are at high tide or flood stage? Or, the low water mark? (I would argue the former.)

Furthermore, here in Vermont at least, the law states that docks, etc. that extend significantly into the "public trust" areas can only be allowed if they serve the public good. Our threshold for review/permit is 75 feet.

Several years ago, a local oven-making manufacturer decided to build a 330-foot dock so that their execs could tie up their sailboats. The thing looked like a causeway extending into Lake Champlain. Seeing that, I decided to test the public trust doctrine and filed an appeal of the company's permits. I took a lot of flack from some, and got nicknamed "shorehugger" by others, but won the appeal. Blodgett Dock Sinks

you have to go through the normal steps to live here just like living in the states.....living costs can be about as much or inexpensive as you like.....my son was living in 2 bedroom cottage right on the water that was $1500 a month...me on the other hand live in an apt thats less than 500....its inland but I can see the water....so just depends on how much you want to spend

where in Au? where I am is perfect (west coast).. but one could easily live anywhere on the east coast from Melbourne all the way to Darwin and have more that ample sailing..
I havent sailed in Tasmania or Adelaide to give comments..

LUIZ-- An interesting fact: the Brazilian law establishes that all islands and all land 150 m from the high tide line are public property. "Waterfront property" does not assure exclusive access rights --

JACQUES-We have the same law in France: the principe is "Sea belongs to everybody". Great.
Living in US, I am always upset when I see beach front access barred by big signs "Do not trespass -- Private property". Something wrong.

LUIZ
I am afraid the reality is less democratic then that.
This law was enforced in all Spanish and Portuguese colonies in order to give the army and navy legal access to islands and shores. This was necessary for protection against pirates/corsairs.

In Brazil two important invasions of this origin occurred and were repealed: a Dutch attempt (Nassau) in the Northeast and a French attempt (Villegagnon) in Rio.

Cheers,

Jacques

Thanks for the information - I did not know that Tecna was about to be taken over.

All I know about them is that they are located in one of those sailing paradises (Aracaju) and that at least three professional multihull builders / designers in Brazil also moved to Aracaju. Maybe it will become a multihull center, someday.

I liked the Outremer cats, but remain faithfull to my Catri.

Cheers,

Two questions:

1-What is the cost of living in Australia? The same as in the US but in AUD at 0.59 instead of USD?

2-any imigration constraints - I know it was not an issue in the past, but maybe things changed?