Little America's Cup is Revived!

(We have been sitting on this story for two weeks, and we were sworn to secrecy and not allowed to print anything until the official announcement was made. That happened a short time ago. Unfortunately, we are not able to load things onto our welcome page right now because of a glitch that resulted from moving our server to a new location. So I am posting the story that Rick and I wrote right here for the time being. Just couldn't wait any longer.)

The International Catamaran Challenge Trophy (ICCT), also known as the Little America's Cup has been lying dormant now for seven years ever since Duncan MacLane of the USA skippered Cogito, with Erich Chase as crew, to victory over the Australians in 1996.

The race has always been on C-Class development boats, but a new format was announced today that will feature match racing on Formula 18HT catamarans. For this first year only, the ICCT will be done on production Bimare Javelin 2's that will be provided for the event. This exception is being made to facilitate getting the event on the water this year. To clarify, the Deed of Gift has been changed to provide for the event to be done on F-18HT's henceforth, so after this year, it will be open to all F-18HT's.

Twenty teams will vie for the trophy September 27 through October 2 at Newport, Rhode Island – ten of the teams will battle it out for the Defender Group (United States sailors) and ten of the teams will fight for the top position in the Challenger Group (sailors not from the United States). Then the top team from each group will sail for the Little America's Cup. Sail Newport is hosting the entire event.

The trials will be over a two-day span with a third day allowed in case of inclement weather. That would allow three days of match racing for the top Defender and Challenger. There are plans to run 20-minute races with windward-leeward courses twice around for the trials and starts going off every five minutes. This is necessary since it will require 48 races to determine the top boat from each group. That means 96 races in total, and that is before the real racing begins. The defender and challenger then will be competing for three days.

June 1 will be the deadline for team applications. Only ten teams will be accepted for each group – the Defender (USA) Group and the Challenger Group (non-USA). If more than 10 teams apply, a decision will be made by June 15 on the final competitors to be accepted for the event.

The International Catamaran Challenge Trophy was born in 1961 when the Sea Cliff Yacht Club of Long Island, New York, donated the trophy initially for competition between England and America. The intent was that the competition would be held every two years.

The event was held 22 times from 1961 to 1996 when Cogito, the U.S. challenger skippered by Duncan MacLane and owned by Steve Clark, defeated the Australian defender Yellow Pages Edge by a score of 4-0 in the best-of-seven series. Cogito brought the trophy back to America after it had stayed in Australia for 11 years.

Ironically, the Australian boat, Yellow Pages Edge, had some bad luck in the 1996 competition that is reminiscent of the misfortunes of the New Zealand team in this year's America's Cup. During the second race, disaster struck. Skipper Simon McKeon and crew David Churcher lost control of the boat on the run to the leeward mark (reportedly in about 12 knots of wind) and Edge capsized, breaking off the wing sail. This left Cogito to complete the course alone. The next day was a lay day, which gave Edge time to put on a mast from a sister boat, but Edge was unable to win any race in the series.

From 1996 to 2000 the trophy was on display at Clark's home club, the Bristol Yacht Club in Bristol, Rhode Island. The deed of gift requires that if no challenge is conducted for more than four years (two events skipped), the trophy returns to the place of its birth, Sea Cliff Yacht Club in Long Island, NY. Steve Clark returned the trophy in 2000.

The deed of gift for the ICCT is overseen by a board of trustees, and potential challengers must go through them.

For the past two years, there were rumors that one or more Australian syndicates planned to make a challenge, but nothing ever became official.

According to one report, in late February the Australians made their challenge bid, but they were told that it was too late, that other arrangements were already being made (referring to the plans to do the ICCT on the Formula 18HT).

Steve Clark, whose boat Cogito is the defending champion, is understandably upset that the format has been changed to use an 18-foot beach cat instead of a C-Class. According to Clark, it was actually in December of 2002 that the Australians submitted their challenge and "they were told to go away."

In a release on March 5, Clark said, in part:
"We have learned that the Trustees propose to replace the regatta which showcased the most efficient sailing machines on the planet with a round robin regatta in production beach cats. Talk about lowered standards! Talk about dumbing it down!
"In spite of the decision of the Sea Cliff Trustees, we have met with the Australians and believe they are a viable team. We anticipate proceeding with an event in the fall of 2004 to again determine who has the fastest course racing sailboat in the world. Stay tuned for new developments."

The board of trustees for the deed of gift have made application to officially acquire the name "Little America's Cup" as a trademark name or copyrighted or whatever status is required to be able to keep someone else from using that name for another sailing event. (Randy Smyth suggested that "Little America's Cup" is kind of demeaning, and that it should really be called "Fast America's Cup.")

Correction: It was earlier stated that Peter Reggio will be principal race officer. This is not accurate at this point. The Board of Trustees is talking to Reggio about serving as PRO for this event. Reggio is well known in top racing circles, having been the PRO for the Louis Vuitton Series of the America's Cup, Sailing World's NOOD Regattas, and the Block Island Race. He would be a prestigious addition to this event, but nothing is definite at this point.

Hi Mary -Hi Rick ,-good article as always .

Sounds like a great event to be part of ,
I,m not aware of any --match racing on cats ,--
other than past Fast Am Cup events on C Class cats ,
these were more a test of design innovation .

We raced the Prosail event in Newport
and the Ultimate Yacht Race event close by in Mystic
in Oct ,then on H-21s new at the time with spin --in 88
---very breezy and cold that time of year ,-
but quarentees good high winds ,--and drysuits .

Interesting news for the 18 HT Builders -
how many are there now and several others planning
including Stealth Marine and Boyer ,--think there is the Jav 2
the Ventilo 18 HT --and a few others currently to choose from .

The Worrell is getting interesting also .

ugh. Its turned into yet another beach cat event. It would be really great to keep with bigger cats. C class or formula 40 or whatever, but not beach cats.

Don't get me wrong, I love beach cats, but the AC is supposed to be a no holds barred "ultimate" event.

Its like turning an F1 race event into a showroom stock event.

Carl,
You're right -- most catamaran sailors have little if any experience with pure match racing (at least in the U.S., and I don't know about the other countries). But it seems as though the ten teams that are chosen to vie for the honor of defending the Trophy should get some serious coaching in the art of match racing prior to the event in September.

Please see the correction posted at the bottom of my story in the original post on this thread.

I salute and thank those responsible for resurrecting this event. Let's face it -- It was DEAD. I always did enjoy the C Class catamarans, but the event always seemed like a design competition event more so, than an actual sailing event. Who could design the fastest boat, and would it stay together? I would like to see it continue, but under a different format. The new format is a great. How many beach cat sailors know anything about match racing? It's not how fast you go, but you just have to finish before that other boat. Just getting this event back on track is a victory for us all. I hope the critics hold their negative opinions for a while and give it a chance to grow.

Don

Mary,
Just an opinion:
Tony must be rotating slowly in his grave. After all the effort he put in to his Patient Lady’s and fabulous work he and Duncan did to make the Little America’s Cup the elate event it is.

After personally witnessing some of the Cup races and seen the work an ingenuity being tested on the water, call it what you may, but what you are talking about is no Little America’s Cup event.

In reality it should be run using the Aqua Cat 12. This would more fitting the memory of the real solid wing or most innovative C-Class of it’s time because the Aqua Cat 12 was the boat most abundant on the grounds of the Rowayton Yacht Club when the Queen was in her glory.

The new venue misses the whole point of the Little America’s Cup. It would be like running the Americas Cup using Lasers. Maybe next time that will be the boat of choice since the Swiss lack water?

It is not just match racing thing, there is something to be said about furthering technology. Sometimes it is better for an event die with dignity but as you stated it even sounded like there was hope for a real revival.

The new Australian C boat is almost finished.. Hulls are ready.. I have seen the new wing mast.. So it almost ready to hit the water..

It would appear that the US maybe afraid to compete one on one with the Aussie team..

"Fast Americans Cup"? that would suppose the F18ht is fastest beach cat available.

I seriously doubt if anyone would claim that is true.

He just meant that the cats in the Little America's Cup are faster than the monohulls in the "big" America's Cup.

As far as which is faster, an F-18HT or a C-Class, two people now have told me that they think the HT would beat a C-Class on a buoy course because the HT's downwind advantage with spinnaker would outweigh the C-Class' advantage upwind with wing mast.

The problem in such a match would be agreeing upon the course to be used. All those years when the C-Class cats were doing the race, they used a triangle course that heavily rewarded upwind performance -- about 43 percent of the time upwind compared to 17 percent downwind and the rest in beam and broad reaching.

The new format for the 18HT's will use a windward-leeward format, but even that can be manipulated to favor upwind or downwind performance, depending upon how many windward legs and leeward legs.

So the real problem would be agreeing upon a course that would be equally fair to both boats.

From reports on forums at this site, it sounds like the Australians who tried to submit a challenge have a C-Class almost ready to go, and Cogito owner Steve Clark has already gone on record as saying that he thinks the Australian challenge is viable and that an event between the U.S. and Australia can be done in 2004.

The question is, will it be done for the International Catamaran Challenge Trophy? I presume that will be up to the trustees of the Deed of Gift.

But this year and this new format are what everybody should be concentrating on at this point. Let's see how it works out. It is just great that the trustees have taken some affirmative action to get the show back on the road after this long hiatus.

It's too early in the morning to think of all the things I should say, but, I have to agree with Terry and Stewart. It is pathetic.
Have an International match racing event on cats - great ! But do not try to call it the Little America's Cup.
The Little America's Cup is part of the history and development of cat sailing.

If the America's Cup was just a match race, without all the history and stories attached to it, would syndicates spend millions trying to win it. They want to be part of history.
The Little America's Cup is about development, pushing out the barriers, etc., and it has HISTORY.- Names from this side of the Atlantic like designer Rod MacAlpine Downie and sailors like Reg White, who won in 1964.

Great event - call it by any other name.

Actually the wing is best in 3/4 reach according to Bruce Proctor skipper of Quest 2, Quest 3 and Miss Nylex twice winner of The I.C.C.T.. whatever it is now (the F18ht trophy?)..

According to VYC rating Miss Nylex and her successors have a rating of 57.. The Tornado with genacker has a rating of 66.. If these ratings are true (and they are based on many years of true water effort not speculation) then your friends are suggesting the F18HT is almost 14.5% quicker than the Olympic T.. *chuckles*.. If that is the case then why did the Tornado in that race you had over there recent (bridge to bridge?).. I mean the F18ht would be 8.4 minutes faster per hour!!


Yes one could make a race designed for F18hts.. Short legs uphill and downhill to maximise tacking an gybing but even then they would be worked hard to maintain a Cs speed.. The race would still be won on the uphill legs.

But your correct the trustees have made a mockery of the original trophy.

Finally for the record.. I have walked around the hulls of the Au C.. Yes they would be competative against any C sailing. I have seen the wing mast.. The skipper is good being an exOlympian in Tornados.. Wining a bronze if I recall.. I also believe a second Aussie C is being designed with wave piercing hulls and a new wing mast to trial against the current C.. But the mockery made put paid to the new boat Im not sure..

Information that was given to me that the Deed of Gift was changed to specify F-18HT's is incorrect. I have now read the Deed of Gift, which was only made available to me late yesterday, and I believe the applicable wording is in paragraph 4(b):

"The Trustees, in furtherance of regular international competition and the development of existing or new Classes, shall, from time to time, select the Class of catamaran in which the competition shall be sailed, and shall publish such information upon each selection within sixty (60) days of the completion of the previous competition."

Sorry, but this is a story that is still evolving, and there may be more corrections and clarifications, which I will pass on as they become known.

A link to the "real" story is on our welcome page, and from the story there are links to the deed of gift and other information associated with the event.

Dermont and Steward,

I applaude your fierce sense of nationality. However, an important point is that the F-18HT class is a developmental class, very similar to the C-Class. Both classes will allow for development and experimentation. I understand that once the initial event or two are held on production (supplied) boats, then it is going to be a open game! Within months after the failed Australian C-Class challenge wanted to stage their event (fall 2004), the ICCT (Little America's Cup) could be sailing on "open" F-18HTs. These open F-18HTs could be every bit as innovative (read their rules) as any C-Class cat, only more affordable.

I understand that folks working on C-Class challenges, regardless of progress level, are upset over the new format. They have to understand that they had their chance and blew it by "dragging their feet"! Ya' snooze, ya' lose!

Spinnakers are not necessarily faster downwind...Anyone want to race a Trifoiler or Rave downwind (in foiling conditions) with an 18HT? Efficiency might beat sail area, and oh yeah, the C's have a pretty big sail, too.

Congrats to the F18HT; those are in place.

Next I will elaborate on the merits of the decision which are entirely my own opinion and I welcome everybody to disagree.

I'm presonally disappointed that these didn't decide to go for the B-class rules. I feel that those are much closer to the original C-class setup and it would allow the Tornado to defend its reputation as the fastest beach cat around. In effect both the Tornado and F18 have been removed from competition by definition. In effect the choice itself has determined in which way development will be made. With the limit on minimal weight there can be no development there. With the rule that only a mainsail and 75 % spi may be used no developments like for example a hooter sail as championed by Rick White and the Orma tri's will be seen

. Both soft mainsails and 75 % spis have had most of their development done in the tornado, a-cat and F18 classes. I mean what will the reputation of the LAC become when an int. Tornado beats it in open races ? If anything the LAC should be be the epithomy of small catamaran design; what if other designs are build lighter, faster and more efficient then the F18HT; I'm thinking about Marstroms M20 for example.

What is left is the introduction of hard wingsails to the F18HT class, improvements in boards and rudders and planing hulls / hydro foils and aerodynamic improvements like wingshaped beams and aerodynamic suits for the crew and moving the spi gate to the mast top.

I fear that the first will upset the F18HT class a little bit. What if you have a javelin one-design boat and the next guy enters the competition with a LAC wingsail ? My point is that the class will be under pressure to go one way or the other. Either be an affordable high performance Formula class of equal racing (as it was intended to be) or go into a full gear arms race with big guys with serious money who will in only a few years modify the platform into a smaller version of Cognito which will be much less affordable and alot less practical to trailor. I hope the F18HT class will be able to beat the odds in this respect.

I don't think that there is much improvement to be made on the boards and rudders apart from hydrofoiling or bruce foiling.

Planing and hydrofoiling; well that would be a development. But of course when the last improvements proof effective they could make all older F18HT's obsolete with a very short timeframe.


So apart from the point above we are left with smaller aerodynamic improvements such as aerodynamic beams which the current round sections are clearly not. I wouldn't be surprise if the crews will start wearing special aerodynamic shoulder patches and helmets like the bobsleigh sporters are allready doing now.

So from a designers perspective there is not that much meat on the choice to go for a formula setup instead of say an old B-class setup. After hydrofoiling or planing has been fully developped in other than F18HT classes by virtue of the Mattia dynacat F18 and 16 and Ventilo Zipo than there is not much else to develop. Copy a wingsail rig from the latest C-class cats is not development.

The LAC was of course to a very large extend a competition between designers, maybe even more than between crews. Just as the current AC is. The choice will have revived the LAC but a large chunk of the original idea is gone. And the choice may even proof to be a kiss of death for the FORMULA part of the F18HT class.

I wonder why they didn't leave the thropy with the last guy who won it as he made the fastest cat under rules that nobody else beat ? Why let him defend it against platforms with wholy different rules, isn't that like stacking the deck and doing away with the hard earned honour of his win ?

Couldn't we name the new LAc different to set the two class (od and new apart ?

Also why limit a boat to 2.5 mtr width for practical trailoring when hard wingsails are not disallowed ? Wouldn't a 2,35 by 10 mtr hard wing sail be far more impractical to transport than 0,5 mtr extra width ? And if the wingsails are disallowed than what is left to develop other than hydrofoiling / planing ?

Enough of the negatism, so what can be changed in my opinion to spike the new LAC class a bit.

-1- One suggestion is to deregulate the 75 % rule of the spinnaker. This would allow the full development of Hooters which will otherwise will stay undevelopped as they are prohibited in all other classes.

-2- Deregulate the sailplan design. Remove the limit to only a main and spi. Set a higher limit on the sailarea or even allow all sail sizes, preferably taking one limit over all sails. Lets see what the optimal ratios are between main, spi and possibly jibs. As I recall the LAC course features a significant reaching leg. Such an open sail plan could allow the crews to optimize the platform to perform superbly under all conditions and not merely in a few special conditions (just windward / leeward). I think a minimum requirement of a LAC design must be that it can beat a H16 in all conditions (Texel 2002 !); otherwise it will be pretty embarrashing. it will be like beating Alingy's AC boat on a sunfish. Great for the Sunfish but very bad for the LAC rep.


-3- Adjust the width rule which when literally applied would measure the overall width over canted boards and T-foils rudders.

-4- Wildcard high performance classes like the F18's, Tornado's and iF20's to challenge the new LAC platform. If the new LAC can not beat these classes consistantly than it will be time review the rules / choice. If it can than it will have proved that it deserves the LAC status. It will at least put a pepper up the behinds of F18HT designers and hopefully result in some lasting improvements that will progress cat sailing in general.

Like I said in the beginning of my post, this is just my personal opinion and I congratulate the F18HT class with the selection of their class as the LAC.

Wouter

I am not sure what my "fierce sense of Nationality" has to do with the Little America's Cup. Ireland has never had a challenger for the Little America's Cup.
Sir Thomas Lipton and The Earl of Dunraven were both Irish challengers for the America's Cup, but that's as close as it gets.
I mentioned Reg White (from England - that's across the Irish Sea from Ireland)because I know him, I race one of his Spitfires at the moment.

While I do not want to speak for him, I think that both Stewart and I feel that the F-18HT is a little bit lightweight (I do not mean weight as in lbs) for an event with such a prestigious background.

I have read many other posts today, some suggest using the B, or C class platform, Formula 40 - 60, or maybe based on the Formula 26 or 28. This is more the spirit of the Little America's Cup.

As I said before, I think that bringing the top cat sailors in the world together on one design cats is a great idea.
I think that calling it the Little America's Cup is ridiculous.
Lets have the International Cat Match Racing Championships and also revive the Little America's Cup - maybe in a new format.

I am not knocking the F-18HT, but while it is an interesting class, it really does not exist outside the US and maybe Italy, where it originated. All the top beachcat sailors sail the Tornado or the F18.
Is it a suitable cat to be the centre of International cat sailing ?

Dermot.

Dermot,

What is so different about the B Class that would make it a better choice than the HT? OK, its longer and wider-what else? Not much.

The HT rules will encourage development, however I would not be surprised to see a new rule regarding mast max chord to protect againt wing sails.

Wouter,
The point is not that the HT is the fastest beach cat, as it certainly is NOT. It is in effect a developmental class and not a true formula class, IMHO. This fact makes it an excellent choice for this event. I know that you have held some disdain for the HT class, after reading your post over the past year. For this reason, I was waiting for your post and you acted as I expected.

The choice has been made and the Little America's Cup (ICCT) is going to using F-18HTs for the foreseeable future. It would be advisable for designers/sailors that covet the cup to begin planning their F-18HT projects. I see that John Pierce of England and the folks at Flyer in Germany are already getting their new F-18HTs ready! This is exciting!

call the new challenge the F18HT international whatever.. but dont use the title "Little Americas Cup" or "Fast America's Cup"..
Neither is true..

The Old mug is between clubs.. This new event isnt..
The Old mug is between boats designed and built in different countries.. This thing isnt its Italian boats sailed by whoever..

If an yanks win/defends this time.. Will they be allowed to next time to defend on a BIM F18ht?

49-er,

of course everything I say and do can be placed in a framework of perceived unending hate but do you really believe that yourself ? I'm not that kind of monster ! (joke)

From memory the HT class was setup between Ventilo, Bim and Marstrom to produce high performaning catamarans that could race eachother. If anything this is much closer to a formula class (hence the name given to it) then a development class in the order of the original LAC C-class and A-class. It is not just me, that is the way the HT class started halfway throught the 90's.

It may well grow into something else and closely approximatie a pure C, B, and A class rule setup but what's the point in introducing as "slightly smaller" B class format when the B-class is perfectly suited to begin with most resembling the original LAC format. Why, start on just a one-design format in the first year. Wouldn't everybody concur that the LAC was very much about designing a better boat than your competition. Maybe more than half the challenge was better designing. But the choice has been made.

You ask what is so different about the B-class :

Well

-1- It allows the tornado to defend its rep and does not exclude it by definition. Some goes to other boat designs; we all know the F18's are the boats to beat in high winds and the if20's are darn fast in the lighter stuff. Most of the LAC was also about getting the best platform for the expected conditions as the bigger AC is and was.

-2- There is no doubt that a wider boat would be faster in the higher windstrengths. We talking about the LAC here right ? The best of the catamaran design.

-3- B class has no minimum weight; just like the old C-class of the LAC. If Stewarts info is good than the new C-class challenger weights in just above 300 lbs. We already now a B-class cat can be made for as little as 108 kg's (marstrom M20). Weight reduction was a major development in both the A's and C's and contributed heaily to improved speeds. Much more development is promised in this field by example of the M20.

-3- The B-class sets only limits on max sailarea (2 sq. mtr. than the F18HT ex spi) max length and max width. Apart from that everything goes. HT class sets additional limits on which sails to use, mastheight, alignment of the hulls (parallel; no toe in or toe out), it sets a shape limit on the spi and once I even read about a rule which limited where the stays could be fitted to the mast. Now there is even talk of disallowing wingsails, which by the way the current rules allow. But at the time the rules also allow only one design of one specific designer to be used. Great for him, but in all honesty this not comparable to A, B, C class rules and much more comparable to a SMOD class. The last rule pretty much assures no development in the first year, something that we have come to expect from the LAC.

I would like to add the A-cat class itself has removed herself further and further away from the original A-class rules too. Limits on mast cord or disallowing hydrofoils were never part of the original A,B,C,D, class concept and are much more closely related to formula consideration of equaling overall performance to enforce equal changes to sailors. The F18HT does resemble the A-class closely but development in those two classes have closed down considerable and even been knowingly limited by additional limits.

These are just objective considerations which eerybody may check for himself, if you want to call this "disdain" then that is fine with me. Fact of the matter remains that the LAC was characterized by pure and unlimited development and that both the A-cats and F18HT class are increasingly limiting this developement. For reasons of survival I expect both classes to disallow wingsails at some time in the future. This was my point in my original post.

But you are correct that anyone could have expected such a reaction of me to this announcement as these are exactly the same reasons which underlie the rules in the formula class that I'm involved in. To me these issues are undeniable and have been proven over and over again in the past and have been excellent described by researchers like Bethwaite and that guy of NASA in the 1950/60's) whose name I just forgot.

One correction is in order; In the foreseeable future the LAC will be exclusively raced on Javelin 2's. After that mabe the F18HT format although there is some rumour that the committee may choice different platforms per event. Maybe we can even hold the LAC on H16 one time ? If i were the owner of cogito I would refuse to give up the cup unless any new platform decided upon by the committee raced against cogito and has beaten it. I would assume that that is the right of the victor of the last challenge.

Indeed, Stealth marine is designing a F18HT or rather a 3 mtr. wide F18HT alike platform which they will cut down to 2,5 mtr for the US market. Flyer lists his development of a F18 above a F18HT and Boyer is currently designing/building exclusicely Capricorns F18's, Taipans and A-cats.

Naturally this may all change in the future but I expect the chances for this to be very slim when the LAC is limited to only javelin 2's. There is not much that other designers can do to participate in the short term is there. This while they can enter into the F18's class and race in it at any time of their chosing.

But more remarkably co-founder of the F18HT class and 2000 , 2001 EU champion boatyard Ventilo is excluded from this honour in the first year. Their design is older than the javelin 2 by years but still they are not allowed to enter the new LAC challenge. Why ? Why exclude sailor who want to bring their own Ventilo's ? Doesn't Ventilo design and yard deserve as much of the honour and positive feedbacks of the new LAC as the Bimare javelin design and yard ?

Now I may have special relationship with the HT class but with a precedent like this do you really think other builder prefer investing into a HT platform over a F18 platform ?

I think this is highly unlikely.

Anyways, my main point still stands.

"for class specific reasons the development in the new LAC will be actively limited (SMOD, disallowing wingsails, etc) or the old HT formula format will be lost to wingsail introductions and other old C-class technics that will result in significant inequalities among boats."

Please react to the points layout and not merely to me assumed bias in this issue.

With kind regards,

Wouter

Arvel Gentry

Hear Hear ! ! !
I wish I could have said it as well as Wouter did.
I don't think there will be any winners with this format.

I just noticed in the press release that it says Bimare Jav 2's will be provided for the event in 2004, as well as this year. This is another correction that should be noted for my story at the beginning of this thread. Originally, I had been told that it would be open to all F-18HT's after this year.

Of course, the way the Deed of Gift is worded the Trustees are at liberty to decide what class will be used for the ICCT, so they are likely to be getting a lot of mail with other suggestions.

Come on you think millions of people are going to tune in to see two 18 ft cats match racing? How is this event going to be any different than the Alter cup or something becides the match racing part. I agree this is dumbing down not a step forward. I of all people do like the high price of some sailing events and efforts but heck the Americas is suppose to be the best against the best, including their technology.

The Worrell 1000 I will watch on TV but not two 18 ft beach cats match racing, doesn't seem exciting to me.

As the designer of the new Australian challenger for the Little America's I was bitterly disappointed with the decision of the trustees to reject our challenge, as was the rest of the team. We have been working steadily for approximately two years to get to the stage where we could challenge. During this time we kept the trustees up to speed with our progress. The first we heard about this new event was after our challenge was rejected. We certainly were not encouraged in any way by the trustees and this may be part of the reason why you have not seen any activity since 1996.

The international catamaran challenge trophy is about who can build the fastest boat on the planet. It is not about who can stitch up the best sponsorship deal to sell one design cats. If the promoters of this new event don't have metal to defend the ICCT then they should have forfeited the trophy and sent it to Perth in the mail.

Despite what these blokes think they don't "own" the Little America's Cup the hold it in trust for all the world's sailors. This move is a travesty and a betrayal of the heritage of the event.

It is to the great credit of Steve Clark and the Cogito team that they have decided to defend the their trophy

Damien Smith

Project Naval Architect
Australian Catamaran challenge

I, Mary Wells, am just transferring this message over to this forum and thread from the Old Forum. He was not able to post on this forum himself.

Posted by Nathan from 64.12.96.134 on March 09, 19103 at 08:10:11:

In Reply to: high performance yes but not HT posted by Stewart on March 09, 19103 at 07:42:12:

I have not been able to post to the new forum, despite getting a user name and password, so I am posting my response to "Sail S" here. Here goes-


Sail-S,

Having been in the Biz for 20 years, I have to disagree with you about the appeal of the smaller, more manuverable HT cats to the TV market. I have viewed clips of these cats racing around the cans and WOW they are exciting! The 18 Skiffs and the 49ers have nothing on these guys. Add some of the World's best cat sailors going after the cup, representing their various countries and you have a media event that is better than you can imagine.

The sporty, darty HTs sailed 20 of the World's best WILL be a lot more entertaining to watch than than two 25 footers sailed by ?????.

Besides, several of the former LAC have been won by default or due to mechanical failure of one of the two fragile C-Class Cats. If one broke, then it would only leave one other to race. Not much fun to watch. The last LAC, won by Steve Clark, ended this way. The Aussie cat flipped and broke a wing, never recovering. They had to use an older heavier wing and were never in the game. BORING! BORING! SNOOZE! NO TV APPEAL!

The Trustees of The Little America's Cup have made a brillant decision. Bravo

Yes I agree with Wouter and others who have voiced their opinion. A large part of LAC is the design aspect of the event. Custom design and build the fastest cat you can, and then see who is the fastest.

Also, the AC is an event with a very high cost of entry. Its an event that showcases best that unlimited money can buy, and that is partially why it is so popular. The "Glamour" aspect of the race is extremely important. If I can walk into a shop and buy an 18ht then I will be out sailing myself rather than watch.

And, the best sailors will still get to sail as crew.

The event is a great place to prove alternate technologies such as wing masts, foils etc, and these improvements could result in faster beach cats for us.

Can someone post the names / email addresses of the LAC organisers so that we can send them a cheery note on how we feel?
Dave

Perhaps reduce capital further, reference URL below:

http://www.microsail.com/f3photos.html

Great idea for another regatta. Those photos show that it doesn't matter how small the boats are -- the important thing is to have BIG camera lenses so the boats look big in photos and on TV. Don't they do that in the movies?

Anyway, something else: I got the impression from somewhere that after the first two years of using stock boats, the idea is that individual designers and builders could come up with new boats specifically for the LAC, designed within the F-18HT formula. I don't know whether that makes it more appealing from a development standpoint or not.

Mary I have to disagree when it comes to the point of people viewing this event as exciting to watch. I have several World videos and the Worrell 1000 videos and I have let people watch it and less than half way through they get bored (except for one). You see we are into it and is exciting for us but not for the masses. Now get a few formula 40 boats flying across the water and watch them stick to the TV. I just disagree and that is ok, yet I wish the event success.

I thought the same thing Mary. Maybe I got it from your earlier post, but I thought the HT's were just a way of jump starting the life back into this event. If that is the case , then I am glad to see this event back, but I think the big boys and their cutting edge designs should prevail from there on.

Don

SaiI-s, I think you are replying to the wrong person here. I have never said or even thought that sailboat racing is exciting to watch. I would rather lie in a hammock and watch rocks erode.

Despite all the wonderful efforts by people like Gary Jobson to make the sport more exciting and interesting and understandable from a spectator viewpoint, they haven't yet gotten me hooked on it.

The ONLY time I have ever found sailboat racing exciting as a spectator was when Rick and I were on our own boat up watching the Formula 40 races in Miami one time during that pro series. We were very close to the action (maybe too close), and it was absolutely spectacular!

It is impossible to capture the sense of power and speed of the boats on television. You have to be in the middle of it to FEEL it, not just see it.

It reminded me of the one polo match I went to a long time ago. We were sitting right on the sidelines of the grassy polo field, and you could feel the earth shaking from the pounding of the horses' hoofs, and you were close enough to see the sweat on their bodies and see the foam frothing from their mouths, and hear the lock "crack" of mallets hitting the ball.

That's kind of what it was like being in the middle of that Formula 40 race -- like a total sensory experience that helped you to relate on some more primitive, basic level.

But no matter how big the boats are, it just does not come across on TV.

And match racing? Only two boats? Sorry. I can't get into it. Monkey-in-the-Middle would be a lot more fun to watch. So as far as match racing is concerned, it makes absolutely no difference to me whether it is on Formula 40's or C-Class cats or Hobie Waves. It is just a tactical and strategic dance on the water. What does it matter what boats? It is all about sailing skill on two boats that are as equally matched as possible.

Seems like this whole debate is between those who think the Little America's Cup should be about the country that can design the best boat and those who think it should be about the country that has the best sailor.

Interesting.

Don,
Whatever the ultimate goal is for the LAC, at least the Trustees have stirred up a hornets' nest of interest about it, and that can only be good.

C CLASS CATAMARAN RACE IN 2004

The Australian Catamaran Challenge syndicate has issued a challenge for the International Catamaran Challenge Trophy (also known as the Little America's Cup) but this has been rejected by the trustees in favor of a factory backed event.

"We were bitterly disappointed," says syndicate coordinator Ian Jenkins, "The Little America's Cup was always about the building most efficient and technologically advanced boats, to sail in one-design boats really misses the point. The C Class Catamaran has represented the pinnacle of sailing technology for the past 40 years featuring revolutionary wing sails."

"Our boat is nearing completion in Fremantle, Western Australia and we will be ready to race next year," says Ian.

Steve Clark and the Cogito team, the previous winners of the Little America's Cup, have recently met with Ian Jenkins and have accepted a challenge from the Australian syndicate. It is anticipated that the new event will be held in Rhode Island in September 2004. More details of the new event will be released as soon as arrangements can be made.




Contact: Damien Smith
Australian Catamaran Challenge
Project Naval Architect
Telephone - +61 8 9434 6752
Email - pugwash@eisa.net.au