Kid's Cat

There goes another crazy idea:

I dreamed about a "Kid-cat" using as many Optimist parts as possible. Then, the "upgrade kit" - cheap, because it would make use of existing Optimist parts - would allow kids to choose if they want to sail the regular Optimist or the Cat version.

I'd expect that kids sailing the cat would soon discover that they are faster and generally more interesting - and develop an earlier interest in multihull sailing.

The Optimist rig is extremely easy to move from one boat to the other. In my club (and probably most places), the rigs are left assembled inserted in small tubes that were cemented into the ground near the wall of an enclosed area. The hulls are kept elsewhere. If we made a small cat that could receive the same rig, a kid would be able to use either the Optimist or the Cat anytime - no fuss.

It woud be better if the same daggerboard and rudder could be used - ideally one each, instead of a cat's usual double rudder / double board setup.

If this is not technically impossible, then the kit would be a) two hulls and b) a connecting platform w/daggerboard case, mast support and rudder gudgeons.

Sounds simple, but... Can it be done?

A great multihull for kids in the optimist age and size range is the Windrider 10. We use these boats in some kids programs and we have the kids out sailing a triangle course in less than an hour (they are actually on the water in about 15 minutes). It is not the traditional yacht club way of learning to sail but kids are hooked quickly on the speed and simplicity of the boat. The boats are relatively inexpensive, car toppable and are a great boat to get young kids hooked on sailing and multihulls. You should check one out!

I understand what you are talking about. I am considering a 13-14 ft boat that would at least start by using a Laser rig. I have several rigs, boards and rudders in my garage and attic. The cost of the boat goes down drastically if you can use existing rig, rudders and dagger board.

I am looking at tunnel hull boats, like the Laser Vortex or Hobie Bravo. I have discovered these are not catamarans, in the classic sense. The water flow is different. They are based on 70's International Moth's. The Moth at 11 ft and very light would match your Opti. If I can find plans I will pass them on. The Tunnel hull is considered a dinghy by Yacht clubs and easily accepted.

I will write a more complete post, when I find more but I will tell you what I know about the tunnel hulls. The Tunnel Hull looks like a catamaran and sails ~like one but doesn't work like one. Water flows around each catamaran hull independently. In tunnel hulls the water is one flow path. The water is forced between the hulls and the passage gets smaller toward the stern creating lift. At high speeds, it planes. At low speed it works like a cat. It is always very stable. One reason I think the modern designs are so slow, is they are heavy. The Laser Vortex and Hobie Bravo weigh 200-250 lbs. The Moths were ~ 40-50 lbs

Something shaped like the Hobie 12 Monocat might work.

Here's a four page brochure for the Hobie Monocat.

Hobie Bravo
Hobie Wave

I gave a Bravo a whirl this summer. It was fun.

That's exactly the concept tha I'd apply to the Laser rig.
Maybe it could be made smaller for the Optimist rig.
Thanks!

watch out for the spyware, malware, viagra pushing ads and popups on the beachcat site

Mike,

What have I done to offend you? Could you explain your comment?

Mike,
I've been a big fan of thebeachcats.com site since it started up and I haven't had any of the problems you've mentioned. Maybe you should check with your internet provider??
Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio

It's not my ISP... the content on the site is fine but the banner ads hosted by fastclick.com and served by http://cserver.mii.instacontent.net/ are promoting "tools and services" which are what I would consider the web site equivalent of email spam. The banner ad company is the problem... allowing blatently misleading advertising such as pop-ups that say "your machine is infected with spyware... click here to clean" after which they will install their own ad tracking software (spyware). As the promoter/owners of a site we should all carefully check the policies of any ad provider that we allow on our sites.

Sorry I wasn't clear the first time... there is great content on the site.

Damon... you have not offended me but the banner ad provider on your site has. See other post above.

When I was a kind, we had a small cat with a sunfish sail. It was slower and uglier than a real sunfish. The lee hull would sink before the winward one would raise. It was fun for kids, no doubt, what we enjoyed the most was riding on strong winds, where the rest of the boats were in trouble..

If you want to develop interest for multihulls, you have to make a decent machine, big part of the fun consist on controlling the boat, a stable catamaran might be boring. It fact, later my father changed it for a laser II, we were surprised about the higher speed and fun it provided. Until now I find more mystic on sailing a monohull, being able to raise a spi, etc. I recently got a catamaran myself, it is not ready to sail yet, I'm excited about the bigger speed and all that, but I still have to know it's mystic, my kid cat didn't give me that.

Something similar happen to me with snow sports. Snowboard is easier and more efficient on deep snow than skiing, but I don't find the same mystic on it. I do telemark skiing, the harder and the slower of all, but for me the most intersing.
(not saying I don't like cats)

Just bought my kid first Cat.....

It IS a challenge to design a cat platform using the Optimist rig and still make it fun for a kid to sail, but the use of an Optimist rig in a Cat platform doesn't necessarily mean it would be too stable or boring - at least I hope not.

Maybe the "mystic" of monohulls is because one has to manage greater risks at lower speeds, compared to a multihull. I believe it is more inteligent to manage LOWER risks with GREATER speeds in a properly designed multihull

Cheers,

I agree with this, although I hadn't seen anything like this on TheBeachcats.com myself, but I had some (two) complaints about the "sliding" ads called InVue. These were the most intrusive on surfing and I've decided to remove them entirely.

Damon,

You have had other complaints about the ads on your site because I complained to you myself on this forum,see http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...w=&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1.

Also the annoying sliding ads are still there I got one this morning.

Apart from the annoying advertising the TheBeachcats.com is a great site and still one of my favourates.

Hi Grob,

I have never see an ad on Catsailor.
You can find several pop-up killers on the web.
I use Zone alert pro. I don't see any ads or other onoying messages at all.

Could you tell me what page you saw it on? I really believed they were all gone, but it's hard to check, since they only appeared once per 12 hour period. The "pop-unders" are still there, you'll see only one per 24 hour period though. I wish I was just rich, so I didn't need to get any revenue from the site to cover expenses.

Damon,

Can't remember what page I saw it on, but I only visited four so I will email them to you off forum. Although when I went back to them I didn't get the ads again. I guess these ads are generated randomly. Also I haven't experienced any "spyware" for some time.

Getting back to the original subject of this thread I wouldn't have thought that a sunfish or laser rig would be strong enough to take the righting moment generated by a cat without some modification. Which is probably why the lee hull was designed to sink (i.e. before the mast broke)

All the best

Gareth

Sorry Damon, but since you don't seem to think it is a problem selling our privacy, time and screen space, I don't have a problem helping others block it...

Unfortunately popup killers still allow the sites to be paid for the practice as the software must retrieve the ad before knowing it is an ad. As a user you can block ads before the request is made and help deter this shady model...

For the TheBeachcats.com, assuming Windows/MS IE you should:
Browser:Tools:Internet Options:Privacy Tab:Edit (override area): add "thebeachcats.com", "fastclick.net" and set to "always block". This will block the tracking cookies but not the site content.

Now you can block fastclick ads from displaying by adding an entry in your "hosts" file with
"127.0.0.1 media.fastclick.net"
In W95/98 this text file should be C:\windows\hosts
In NT,2k,xp c:\winnt\system32\drivers\etc\hosts
On a MAC use format "media.fastclick.net CNAME 127.0.0.1" (save this through the TCP/IP control panel).
This will stop access to that site by re-directing it to your local machine... you will see a 404 error screen where the ad would have been.

Read more at:
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~atman/spam/adblock.shtml
http://ssmedia.com/utilities/hosts/

Both sites have a full list of ad providers you can block locally and significantly speen up your browsing if on a slow connection.

I don't even know how to respond to all that, so I won't.

I apologize to the original poster, Luiz, for helping mess up his topic about a kids catamaran. And to Rick White, for the off-topic discussion of TheBeachcats.com.

Thanks go to grob (Gareth), for sending me an email that helped me track down the remaining slider ads and remove them.

All I was trying to do, was point out a boat I thought sounded like Luiz's description. I should have ignored the ensuing comments about my site.

Yeah man, don't let them get ya down.

I don't think anybody that complains about popups or banner ads has ever had to front the bill for a bandwidth intensive site.

Its not free people.

Luiz, risk is far away from being my goal when I sail. Speed is just part of it, not the whole thing. The skills that are needed and how to develop them are quite more interesting. Intellingent is to do what you enjoy, if I would like speed I would go to a motor boat, if I would like risk I would do bungee jumps. Diversity is good too, I do like cats, just got one, but I'm not quiting monohulls and I'm not interested on theaching my kids to prefer one oe the other, I will be happy if they prefer motorboats or snowboards.
Hey, I think a kid cat is a great idea, not just because it might be faster, I was just trying to comment that it should be a good one, Optimists are good boats, not easy improve them.

Seems to me you would have more tied up in a optimist based kids cat than a production cat with spinnaker...

http://mystereowners.org/mystere/ 3-4k. Some very good used ones for less than 3k.

It is a good point and it made me think

The small cats we are talking about are roughly the same width as their monohull siblings. The Max arm lenght will be 6.5 ft instead of 5 ft for the Laser or 5.5 for the Sunfish (For monohulls center of bouyancy to center of mass of a 6 ft man hiking) There is not that much difference in righting arm

These rigs are unstayed. They deflect before they break.

These rigs are way overbuilt but not stiff, they bend

At a gut level, just based on my experience, I don't think I could break a Laser rig if I put it on my Tornado

As a computer Junkie for more than 20 years I would not recommend the addition to the hosts file that is posted here. 127.0.0.1 is the internal IP address for yourself and naming it "media.fastclick.net" seams like a bad idea to me. You are in effect confusing your IP Stack into thinking that you are called "media.fastclick.net" There are ways to block the popups without compromising your own security. I would not do this, and My recommendation would be to investigate this kind of thing thoroughly

I've always thought that the design on the site below would be an excellent kid-cat, and would lend itself to a Sunfish or Laser rig for simplicity and reuse. Start beginners on an easy and low power rig, update to sloop for more experienced kids. It looks very simple and inexpensive to build, in the spirit of the original Optimist pram. A sailing club could build a bunch of these on the cheap and voila, a pre-Hobie-16 age youngster cat sailing program. Get a couple of clubs to do it in a region and whole new thing could be born.

Awhile ago I posted a challenge for the designers that lurk around to come up with something like this, and nobody responded. But maybe because this existing boat might already be the ticket.

http://www.stevproj.com/SpecPurp.html - scroll down a bit, there's more than one design on the page.