Sail from FL to Bahamas?

Ok, maybe I'm crazy. I'm not an open water sailor, and have very little time "out there"

But I do have an idea. How about a sail to/from the bahamas on a beachcat? I know it would take hours, but isn't it only 60 miles away? I also understand that open water is vey different than coastal water. It can become very rough very quickly.

I wouldn't want to do this solo, or even with a single boat. Any ideas? Stories? Etc?

I have thought about the same thing! doing some island hopping after I got there. But everyone I have talked 2
about it acts like I am nuts!

Doug Ramsey
TheMightyHobie18 #4383

I took a jetski across from Riviera beach to the westend back in 97. Then went around to Freeport to find a hotel. I'm not sure if its still open but I stayed at Running Mon. It has several slips for hotel guests and its right on the water. I went over the 4th of July weekend. That seems to be the best time as far as weather and there is lots of boats crossing on that weekend. I had a GPS, a radio and an extra 13 gallons of gas strapped to the side so I was well prepared. The only rough part is just as you approach the island, the long gental swells get much steeper and closer together. I say get a few people together and go, but be prepared.

I've thought about that too - I've sailed several 100 mile events but they were usually along shore lines. That certainly would be a big step to cross open ocean.

Well looks like we got 3 boats here, Let plan a crossing!
in 2004. Anybody game.


Doug Ramsey

First of all, there is a reason they call the area the "Devil's Triangle." There are many boats and people lost in that area. And I don't think is some mysterious doings that cause it -- just people doing dumb things in an area that has some pretty treacherous stuff going on.

For over ten years I was a charter captain out of Miami and running trips to the Bahamas on a 67' ketch that slept 28 people -- it was more of a motor sailor with a huge diesel engine.
As big as that boat was and with all its tonnage, it was often tossed around like a cork in the Gulf Stream. Whenever there is an opposing wind to the Stream (current can run over 4 knots at times) the waves stand straight up. That gives 44-miles (the distance from Miami to Bimini)of square waves that you must navigate.
I don't think a normal beach cat would hold up in those conditions.

The direct course to Bimini from Miami is 115 degrees. While the true course is around 100 degrees, you need to allow about 15 degrees for the Stream, so you need to steer more to the right. That is in a boat that is sailing around 8 knots. If you have a boat that can make 15 knots, you could cut the 15 degrees in half.
Of course, back then I used dead reckoning -- gps was not around.
But, let's assume you must take a heading of 115 to 120 degrees to hit Bimini. That means you would want the wind to be coming from around 170 degrees.., or southerly. Sounds good, right?
Wrong! When the wind shifts to the south it means there is a front approaching.., and you certainly don't want to get caught in the middle of the Stream in a Frontal Passage.
If the wind is behind you.., or out of the West, you are right in the middle of a Front. Scary!
After a Frontal Passage, the wind may blow pretty strongly from North to Northeast.
Sounds good, Right?
Wrong!
When the wind is piping out of the NNE it is directly opposing the Gulf Stream and you will experience 20 foot seas that are straight up and down vertically. You literally drop off a wave into a deep trough. Many boats and people have perished in those conditions.

Also, when you get to the islands, navigational lights are not always working properly, if at all.

The Bimini area is the first of the islands making up the Bahamas. After that it is a long, long sail to the next islands. While there is no strong currents to contend with, there are also no navigational aids along the way. There is a slim pass through the reef that opens to deep water to get to the Berry Islands and Nassau. I remember the main light there had been hit by and intra-island commercial boat that knocked it down. It was out of commission for years after that.

At any rate, if you want to be in our magazine's obit column, go for it.
By the way, a good way to do this trip is to sign on as crew with any of the boats that annually race from Miami to Bimini each June. Lots of multihulls do the race. Many continue on to Abaco for a week or so of racing over there.
Much safer and more fun than a beach cat.
Rick

When I pick up my tornado, the first thing I wanted to do was to cross from Key West to the Dry Tortugas and back.

this sounds just as fun.

What about a sail over to Cuba? That sounds like fun.

Well, I certinly understand some of the dangers associated with it. I also have a lot of questions as well. Someone has had to of done this on a beachcat before....

Need to get aquanted with things like rescue range, epirbs, etc I suppose. I haven't made up my mind about doing it, but I'm exploring the option.

It is doable, if you pick your weather. But that's a problem when you are trying to organize a multi-boat crossing. It is hard to just set a date and say you're going to go for it on that date. You may end up having to postpone for days or even weeks. Your group of participants would have to be people who are very flexible with their disposable time and who are all able to wait for the right window of opportunity -- sort of like the crew of Playstation gets put on standby to wait for the most favorable winds to set a new record, and then they have to be ready to go at a moment's notice.

The prevailing winds (the tradewinds) are east/southeast at 10-15. The wind speed is good; the wind direction is not, when you are trying to go east. You would have to tack all the way across the Gulf Stream, and also compensate for the current, which is taking you north. It is about 45 miles from Miami to Bimini, but it is a heck of a lot farther if you have to tack all the way.

Rick already explained the potential problems when the wind is out of the south or west. And, of course, it is totally impossible when the wind is out of any of the northern quadrants.

In addition to worrying about the wind switching around to the north, you also have to worry about being becalmed out in the middle of the Gulf Stream. This has happened several times to the big multihulls doing their annual race across the Stream. So the ideal thing is to have a little outboard motor mounted on your boat so you can at least try to avoid being run over by a freighter.

The big charter boats (like Rick used to operate) all do the Gulf Stream crossing to the Bahamas at night, leaving the mainland about midnight. This is so that they can arrive at the Bahamas in the morning, in daylight, so they can see to get through the few and precarious, rocky openings.

I would think beach cats would want to do a daytime crossing; and, therefore, in most conditions they probably will not make it across until dark. So you could be stuck on the outside all night waiting until daybreak in order to get "in." It's not like you can drop an anchor there on the outside, because the water is very deep right up to the edge of the Bahama Bank. No beaches, just very nasty rocks. So you are just going to have to keep sailing around all night until daylight -- or take a chance on shooting through one of the openings, which might be tough if the wind is on the nose.

And then, of course, you have to immediately go to Customs and check in before you can go any deeper into the Bahamas. There is a Customs station at Bimini and another at Cat Cay. I'm sure there must be one on Grand Bahama Island, too. I'm also sure they are not open at night, so you would have to wait until they open before you can check in and then continue your trip.

Best possible scenario would be to get a fast reach over with a south wind preceding a slow-moving cold front. Stay in the Bahamas until the front has passed, and then get a downwind ride back to the mainland on the easterly tradewinds.

Just got back from Bimini for a Thanksgiving trip. The friend we stayed with had the story that a few years (maybe more than just a few) a pair showed up on a Hobie-18 after crossing from Miami. They entered the cut between North and South Bimini as the tide was rushing out and spent a long time tacking against the current to get in. After they were ashore the weather turned and my friend ended up with extended stay guests. Ultimately they flew home and retrieved the boat later I think.

They might have been more lucky than skilled at the time...

http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/delraybeachcatsailor/images/baham.html

In 2001 four or five Worrell 1000 teams, on Inter 20's, decided to sail over to Bimini sometime during the month prior to the Worrell. They had decent wind when they started, but when they got to the middle of the Stream -- about 20-25 miles from the mainland -- the wind totally died, so they turned around and came back.

Also, Theo, in terms of communications and safety, Rick tells me that when you are in the middle of the Stream, you are out of cell phone range and out of VHF range for a handheld (even for most regular VHF radios with antennas). He said nobody in the Bahamas responds to radio calls. If you are in trouble, you could probably hail a passing freighter, and they could contact the Coast Guard. And then, what is really scary is that the Coast Guard may ask the freighter to come to your aid. Those ships are not exactly known for their maneuverability. Sadly, we know this from personal experience.

Mary, sounds like you have the plan. I was thinking we would have to wait the weather out. Get the right conditions. Has anybody ever done this on a beach cat?


Doug & Stacy

I've been wanting to do the trip. I have been talking to a potential sponsor for a race from Miami to West End to West Palm (Singer Island). I am in the process of having my hulls gone through and reinforced. It would be good to do a recon trip. I have 14 years heavy ocean sailing off the coast of West Palm with lots of experience in the Gulf Stream (something to be approached with extreme respect). I just have to find a hole in my schedule.

Craig
TeamCyberspeed.com

I'm in Daytona Beach, but I can meet somewhere. Lots of Prep to do for me to feel comfortable

I actually happen to be in Daytona for testing for the 24 Hours of Daytona. I will be here till tomorrow if you want to meet out for drinks tonight. Let me know.

craig@teamcyberspeed.com

Latest crossing seems to have been on an Inter 20, by Katie Pettibone & skipper who`se name I can`t remember - A small write-up was in Sailing World mag, November 2003 issue. Apparently they experienced conditions which Rick describes, no wind in the Stream, then short steep waves & strong winds. In spite of this they crossed in 3 hours, the return trip took much longer, total trip time was 15 hours, not too sure if they did it all in one go or on separate days. Katie Pettibone wrote the article, and recommends waiting for a Southerly wind I think, also says it`s within reach of a lot of cat sailors in the area. Maybe she has no idea of some of the dangers which Rick mentions !
That`s all I remember, perhaps if you can find that issue it might help, although it was a short write-up.

Cheers
Steve

The skipper was Christophe Ribot. The story on page 14 says that on the retrun trip, the wind died in the Stream before piping up again to 30 knots. They ended up finishing 26 miles north of their intended destination at 1 a.m.

Hello All,

Well, what appears to be an interesting trek, as Rick warns, is full of potential harm to small vessels ( such as beach cats),...take his post as serious information.

We cross over from St. Croix to St. Thomas here in the Caribbean for the race seasons. It is around 35 miles of open ocean.

Sometimes, it has been very nice,..and uneventful,.....other times,..**##%%@@!!!.

Surprizingly enough, there are no 'nice ocean rollers', for the waves bounce off the islands and do there own thing( even at 35 miles between them)

Once you are out of sight of land,..it is tremendously ALONE and the reality hits you,.....if something went wrong,..even minor,...you are stuck!

Luckily, we were always prepared with sound rigs and nothing happens.

The trip takes 3 hours 40-ish minute on a good day,....and 5 hours on a light day.

With proper support by attending motor vessels, we have planned a distance race, as a feeder to regattas,..but it never jelled,.....last year I shipped the I-17 over and eventually sailed it back a month or so later with a friends I-20............by the way, the I-20 is an excellant open water boat,....the I-17 is not( it just pitches too much in big seas)......

....it could be fun if you do it right....,..I think a ARC 27 with a 22 foot beam and outboard may be your answer here....


regards,
Bruce
St. Croix

"I think a ARC 27 with a 22 foot beam and outboard may be your answer here...." Bruce, St. Croix

If the goal is just to get to the other side the best answer is airplane. In this case the destination is not important. The important thing is the challenge of getting there in a small beach cat. Right?

Thats correct Mary.
There are a few of us talking about doing it sometime this summer. We are thinking 4 boats would be a good numnber, that way if someone gets into trouble, there can be at least 1 boat to help/use as a lifeboat. Planning is in the very beginning stages at this point. Obviously the boat will be gone through, rigging replaced, things checked etc...

The reason to do it is the challange, without a doubt. 1 day over, one night there, one night back (assuming the weather is good to come back) Thats the plan right now. Please don't take offense to me still wanting to do this. I understand some people don't "recommend" this journey. But if we do it, I would like to get all the advice and help that is out there. I'm certinly not a gung-ho type.

I have been across the Gulf Stream several times, always at night except for one time when I had to come back to the mainland on a small powerboat. There was no wind on that day. It was extremely spooky. There were no waves. There were swells, but they were not like ocean swells that go in a certain direction. These were very long, low, flat, lazy swells that seemed to be coming up from somewhere below and didn't seem to be going anywhere -- just heaving up and down. It was like the Stream was a living thing, like it was breathing. Very eerie sensation.

This is a old report from 'the daily sail'

Claire Bailey and PlayStation captain took at 20ft Ventilo cat from Antibes to Corsica


Playstation captain David Scully likes fast sailing and slow dinners, so a quick blast across the Med for a romantic dinner in Calvi, Corsica, sounded like a great way to spend an evening.

Unfortunately, his transport for the occasion was not his normaly 125 foot maxi-catamaran, but a 20ft high performance Ventilo sport catamaran. Fortunately, his date was skiff skipper and multihull veteran, Claire Bailey, who cheerfully agreed to make the crossing with him. He persuaded her that they could twin wire the 100 odd miles between mainland France and Corsica in less than eight hours, have a great meal, and be back the next day. Fortunately, the weather was great for a midday departure, and the pair blasted out of Antibes already discussing the choice of entrée. Unfortunately, the fun only lasted for a few hours, and the little boat, named for the compass manufacturer, Tacktick, was left ghosting along in the glazed sea that local sailors recognize as 'la petole'.

Claire takes up the story. "My hopes for a romantic dinner that evening were fading rapidly, and the thought of splitting a packet of fig rolls and two stale Power Bars just didn't have the same appeal.

Alas, this became the least of my worries, as I felt my bladder becoming increasingly full. Of course, being the conscientious medic, I had insisted on us both drinking plenty of fluid to re-hydrate in the blistering heat. As my bladder reached it's elastic limit, I reached for the cooking funnel and tubing device I had invented earlier. Of course it was designed to fit through the fly in my drysuit, and "hey presto". Without going into too many details, yet another one of my 'good ideas' rapidly bit the dust. However it was a source of much amusement for David as he witnessed the fast ever exit from a Musto drysuit.

Just as the sun was setting we were joined by eight or ten dolphins, surfing around our little boat close enough to touch. Spirits went up, the sun went down, and we settled in for a long night.

David takes over. "Turn back? I felt obliged to ask the question, but with the moon rising, and the calm sea starting to speak it's night sounds, neither of us felt like rejoining the busy parade of the Cote d'Azur. We set watches, and had no trouble sleeping on the trampoline as the hulls cut twin creases in the calm water. Moon set, sun rise, and still no wind disturbed the carpet of mini portuguese men o' war that were so numerous in places they looked like wind ripples in the moonlight. Sea turtles munched busily on these little, purple, jellyfish babies, cleaving the surface of the sea with their oddly upraised flippers. Then it began to get hot..."

Claire says: "In fact, so hot that we decided to get rid of drysuits and thermals, and adapted the boat to shelter us from the frying sun. I looked around, following the horizon, and saw nothing. The sea was like a mirror, blue and clear. The sails draped on the rigging. We could have been anywhere.

Dufdufdufduf. "Sounds like a helicopter", I said to David. "Oh, don't be daft, was his reply, It's a powerboat engine." His confidence reassured me until I actually saw the 'bird' circling us. David did then admit that he was wrong! Good job, really, as two minutes later the helicopter doors opened, and out dropped a diver.

We stowed the empty kite and stood by with the mainsheet in hand, as the downdraft was the most wind we had seen for 14 hours. The diver swam rapidly toward us.

Bonjour, ca va?, said the swimming gendarme, hanging by his elbows from our hull. 'Mais, bien sur', we replied. On receiving our assurance that we were fit and healthy despite being more than 12 hours overdue, he was winched back up to the chopper, and we continued toward Calvi, after a brief spot of skinny dipping!

'Life is life, and fun is fun' thought David, "but I was ready for this trip to be over. The high coastline closed with aching slowness. We rounded Pointe d'Espano doing jibing angles in a light and faltering sea breeze, relying on big boat style trimmer-driver dialogue to maintain concentration and maximize VMG. Finally, we hit the beach just after 1700 hrs."

A bottle of cold water and a beer were at the top of the 'To Do' list, but first we chatted with the local journalist, and posed for the obligatory photo on the boat. The local welcome was so friendly that we were doubly surprised when we opened the Corse-matin newspaper at breakfast the next morning, to see the photo and article, closing with a note that we had broken French law by sailing offshore in a beach cat, and that the police were after us to issue a summons!! In the middle of croissant and coffee, we suddenly felt like Bonnie and Clyde.

What were we to do? Our plan was based on sailing home as soon as we could, and ferries and fines were not in the budget. First we called Pierre, our weather router. 'Don't leave today, don't leave tomorrow,' he said. There may be wind on Friday. So, if we couldn't outrun the cops, we had better confront them. Deeply concerned, we called the reporter, got the name of his contact, and placed a call to Cross-Med, the rescue and sea safety authority for the region.

I explained to the official that this was not a spontaneous event, and that despite the small size of our vessel, we were carrying safety material and supplies that exceeded the French category three requirements for an offshore vessel. Our shore contact had followed correct procedure by reporting us overdue, but he had specifically stated that we were carrying a distress beacon, and had not expressed any concern for our safety. Fortunately, Cross-Med were very understanding, saying that the chopper we had seen had been on routine surveillance, and not specifically sent to rescue us. They gave us permission to depart when we were ready. The paper even published a retraction!

Having safely tested our endurance and the boat, we are now fired up and ready to tackle the TransMed world record attempt around the 18th July 2002.

If only you could find a Reynolds 21 to tag along.... Just add two or three trapeze wires to each side and spinnaker pole

I'd be up for doing this over Spring Break (Saturday, March 20th- Sunday, March 28th).

Depending on the costs involved, of course. Isn't there a $150 fee per boat now?
The Bahamas Cruising Guide

If these are truly serious intentions, priority should be placed on setting the date and place to meet/launch, course to be sailed, and creating a list of minimum requirements. Boat size, crew size, safety items, etc.

I would say... no less than an 18' boat, no less than 2 and no more than 3 people per boat, at least one GPS, at least one hand-held VHF in waterproof container, one gallon of water per person and x# of power-bars per person (as emergency rations), plus enough food, per person, for two days. Also some other form of propulsion, like oars and paddles if it's asking to much to add outboard brackets and engines to each boat.

I'm not sure about the 406mhz EPIRBs though....

Also, as always, this depends on weather conditions.

Ok, enough talking. So far we have two boats that are in for the trip. My boat and Theo's boat. Anyone else interested?

I would like at least four boats to go over. I live on Singer Island which is directly accross from the Bahamas. All participants are welcome to stay at my condo and the boats can stay on the beach in front. We just need to know who is going and find a date that is good for all. Once all plans have been set I will try to get some media coverage. Theo, I will be in Daytona this week for the 24 Hours of Daytona. Call me so we can set a time to meet at the Ocean Deck and talk.

Who's on board?

You guys will be going overboard with the safety equipment right? EPIRBS, personal strobes, etc.? Your safety is paramount.

If I had my tornado right now, I would go for it. My H17 would sink before it made it to the bahamas

Count myself and my Hobie 18 in. I live in North Florida but I'll meet you guys when ever. Seems like March and April are popular crossing months. Keep me posted. MSCN78@aol.com

Please don't end up as another statistic that we have to debate here later....consider renting an EPIRB if you guys don't already have one:

http://www.boatus.com/foundation/epirb/faq.htm

Thanks for the link Jake, that's great information. I'm fixing my G-Cat 5.7M up (retrofitting a TheMightyHobie18 rudder system onto it), and also looking at selling mine to buy a G-Force21GP if I can contact the owner and convince him to sell the boat (haven't seen it used in a long while). I can't commit to making this trip until my boat is ready or I've bought the other boat, but I am trying to be ready for this. (and I wouldn't hardly consider doing this without an EPIRB)

Maughan- If you'd like to go, I'm sure you could crew for someone making the trip. If my boat is ready in time, I'd sure like to have some experienced-yet-crazy crew aboard.

depends on when the trip is. I'd need a solid 3 month notice ahead of time to be sure to get the time off work. I've already planned out a majority of my 3 weeks of freedom.

You guys definitely need an epirb on each boat (406 much preferred). Also, handheld VHFs often go for only 5 miles, and their batteries are unreliable in salt water (e.g. beachcat).

Each boat needs to be COMPLETELY independent of the others. When the weather goes bad or something breaks, you can not count on another cat being able to help you. It is highly likely they won't even see that you are in distress (esp. at night or in bad weather).

I have done about 20 crossings from L.A. to Catalina Island (25 miles), and 5 times in the Newport-Ensenada race on a cat (145 miles down the coastline). Please see http://www.whitecaps.net for how we organize things. Keep in mind that we have much milder weather in SoCal than the Gulf Stream.

Trust me, the first time the sun goes down and you can't see shore, you will really begin to wonder if this was such a good idea. I would highly recommend doing some shorter sails (preferably in bad weather) before setting out to Bimini.

Please don't become another statistic.

Alan Thompson
I20 - San Diego

Just completed my first cruise. Sailed from my home in Cape Coral down to watch the fast boats in the NAMSA Mid-Winters. You can't believe how easy it is to become disoriented, or how difficult to hold a course at night without any landmarks. Keep in mind that stars move and clouds sometimes cover them. I had to refer constantly to my GPS, which can be grueling in and of itself.

Also, I once raced a Hobie 16 off Singer Island in "square Waves" but only of 6-8 feet. Very, very rough sailing.

You guys need to remember the old saying " there are old sailors and bold sailors, but there are no old bold sailors"

Anyway, the trip has been done before. Jack Sammons refers to it in "Welcome to A Fleet." Incidentally, he also refers to being nearly run down by a freighter. If memory serves, his description had to do with red and green nav lights getting further and further apart!

Why don't you guys do a trial run in Florida Bay? There are lots of possible courses without having to contend with the Stream.

On the way home, saw lots of tents on Cape Sable with moored power boats in attendance. Made the run from Tavernier to Cape Sable with plenty of day light even in my boat (Tiki 21).

Sorry a little late in replying. My schedule this week has been crazy. Love the old/bold saying and a lot of truth to be had there.

I have been racing in one form or another whether it be go kart, cars or boats for almost 30 years and I am a firm believer in safety first. Jake thank you for the eperb rental information, I will definitely make use of it.

pete_pollard, I have been sailing on the ocean for 14 years and I am ready for this trip and anyone else going needs to be sure of their ability as well.

MauganH17 & Sycho15, what do you think your timeline is to get ready for the trip? We could hold off a bit if you have serious plans make the trip. I would hate to leave out anyone that wants to join us. MauganH17, please send me your e-mail address craig@teamcyberspeed.com

JohnFolds, I have your contact info and will contact you soon to talk. Where do you live?

Should be a great trip!!!

See "Jesse sails to Bahamas on Hobie 16" link story on the left side of our home page:
http://www.angelfire.com/fl3/delraybeachcatsailor/

I wouldn't do it, what if you DNF, like I always do? But a normal South East wind in the summer would be best, especially if you left from West Palm.

Pete,

I saw you at Tradewinds - that's a beautiful boat! I didn't think much of it when I saw the Tiki photos on the internet but it's much prettier in real life. Very nice!

Cyberspeed- I think your summer scheduling might be the best time for both Maughan and I. He'll need a good advance notice, and I'll need a little time to finish and test my rudder swap. I've yanked my old rudders, 'glassed the inside of the transmoms with thick woven-roving, and am grinding and filling the gelcoat cracks from when the Dotan housing twisted off. I've got some TheMightyHobie18 housings but still need to buy new blades for them.

I've been planning on buying a new set of sails for this summer anyhow, and am already saving up. All of my standing and running rigging is recent and has few hours on it, all of my blocks have been replaced and are working nicely. I went through those systems last summer.

I do have a Cheeta motor mount on my boat, but haven't yet got an engine for it. I'll get looking for some 2.5-4HP kickers, but was also thinking of setting my boat up for oars. It's too wide for a single person to row from the center (tried it before) but it would be fine for two people to each take an oar.

As for capsizing possibilities, I guess I should order one of Gary's Solo~Rights sooner rather than later After all, I don't know if Maughan and I are fat enough to right my boat when it's got a few extra pounds of gear onboard.

I have also been thinking about putting a tri-color and VHF antenna at the top of my mast. I could easily store a deep-cycle battery and VHF radio in a box in front of my mast on the forward trampoline. Mostly, these are all things I could borrow off my Seafarer 24 sailboat...

Pete Bollard- I've been thinking about sailing from Tampa Bay to Dry Tortugas this Spring Break (March 20-28). I know it's not crossing the Stream, but it should let me put enough miles under the keel to figure out which systems need to be tweaked.