home made-up standing rigging

Anyone had any luck making up standidng rigging themselves? I have made up some trap wires and have a swaging tool, I was thinking about adding a furler to my boat and making up the modified rigging myself, doubling the oval swages at each end. For a 19' boat. Is this a bad idea? Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks

bad idea for stays. Trap wires and lifelines are ok.

but anything that keeps the pointy end up should be hydraulically swaged.

How about the kevlar rigging or whatever is the exotic material of the month?
Perhaps, you don't need a special tool at the ends? just special fittings?
Difference in cost & weight would be interesting.

I though about it, but it is costly. I need to re-make up the upper forestay and two bridles for a P19 to add a furler. The swages on the upper forestay look just like what I can do with a hand tool, only I was going to double them.

i've been making my own wire rigging for years and have never had a failure. i have the cheap swage kit. when i want to be sure i double the swages, usually i just clamp the swage twice, top and bottom. be aware, i am light and sail a forgiving style with not much pressure. what works for me may not be appropriate for someone who 'dogs' his boat.

Are you guys talking about swaging or nicropress?

I think swaging. The ovals I wanted to use are like the ones from murray's, copper Nicropress ovals. But the discription says they are swaged on using the appropriate sized too. I was going to use a swaging tool like the one in murray's, the 19" two handled type. I noticed they do have a bolt together type swage it tool for nicropress sleeves. I sure would like to know the technical differences of the two.

The type that bolts together is time-intensive - much quicker to use the presses with handles. "Appropriate size" refers to the various sized holes at the end of the tool, which are marked for different sleeve sizes. I'm pretty sure Nicropress is just a brand name.

Most of the hydraulic pressed wires I've seen still have a thimble and swage at the top... so what's the difference? You still have a swage in the equasion. There are plenty of folks running around with wires they made up themselves. Double up and make sure you measure first, cut once with a good wire cutter to prevent leaving a "meat hook" sticking out of the sleeve when you're done. I bought a couple of beers for the shop manager at my local dealer and took advantage of his experience - nice neat ends and both shrouds are the exact same length, thimble to thimble.

Also, look at pre-made wires that are the length you need or just slightly longer - I paid a lot less by grabbing some H16 coated shrouds off the rack and trimming them just a bit.

Good luck - let us know how the furler comes out.

I agree with Big John. I use the same gear that he did at our local dealer. I have made up the complete set of standing rigging for my old 6.0, including the diamond wires on the mast. My crew and I are known for breaking things, but our rig has held up well. I hate those swaged ends. Salt water gets inside, corrodes it and you can't tell when it's about to go until it's too late. At least with a thimble you can see the wire and rigging. We've de-masted the 6.0 twice due to the swage failures. No more of those. Sure you can make your own rigging. We have pushed ours to the limit, and it does just fine. There is a trick to crimping it though that Capt. Kirk showed us, and yes, I'd use two.

Good luck and go for it.

Psailor,
I think Nicropress and Nicopress, both brand names, are totally different from swaging. I think the term "swaging" has just come into common usage to refer to what we do when we, also generically speaking, "nicropress" something.

Here is an article on this subject:
Can I use a hand swage tool to attach aircraft eyes and forks to 5/32 rigging?

Tom Wood responds:
The word "swage" is used so indiscriminately by catalog companies that it confuses us all most of the time. And since the integrity of the terminal fitting on the wire rope is at stake, it is important that the right tool be used to install each fitting.

But before we even go there, let me say that I am not generally in favor of using aircraft swage terminals for sailboat rigging. Since the pin sizes are smaller than marine swage terminals, once your boat is rigged with aircraft parts, you’re generally stuck with them unless you’re willing to drill out chainplates and mast tangs, opening a whole new batch of engineering questions. But aircraft terminals were designed to move the flaps and other control surfaces of light planes, not for the corrosive elements, vibration, and high loads of sailboat rigging—that’s why there are marine parts.

First it is important not to confuse a swaging tool with a Nicopress tool. A Nicopress sleeve is an oval soft-copper part with twin holes for making a loop in a wire rope or for joining two wire cables. They are often plated to a shiny finish. The tool that installs these looks like a giant pair of pliers, or a bolt cutter, but it has one or more round holes in the working end to compress the soft copper onto the wire. Unfortunately, many companies that make and sell these tools refer to them as "swaging" tools, which they are not. There are even smaller versions of these that use a pair of bolts turned by wrenches to squeeze copper ovals (or stops and balls) onto a wire, and these are often referred to as hand swaging tools, which they are not. These tools are for use on very soft materials and cannot apply the enormous pressure to truly "swage" a real fitting onto a wire.

Now, if you want to get really confused, try to follow this. There are terminal ends made for lifeline usage that look just like a regular rigging terminals, but the part that is squeezed onto the wire is made of a softer alloy for use with, you got it, a Nicopress tool. These allow a rigger to build a new set of lifelines on the deck of a boat without the need to take all the fittings back to the shop. They are usually identified among the lifeline parts as "hand crimp" fittings and they should never be used for standing rigging.

OK, you with me so far? Here comes the next curve. There are true swaging machines that are portable and used by hand. For bigger sizes of wire rope terminals, these are often actuated by a small manual or hydraulic pump to draw the fitting through stationary jaws. There are also some manually operated hand swagers, but few boat owners would want to spend the thousands of dollars necessary to purchase one of these sets to re-rig his boat once every 10 years—I can hardly lift one.

One last bend in the road. Many riggers use what is called a roll swager, often made by and called a Kearney. These bolt to a bench and have sets of two wheels to compress the swage terminal onto the wire. It is operated with a long manual crank handle, although I have seen a few electrically driven units. Roll swagers are handy for small wire like your 5/32s of an inch on up to about 1/4-inch wire rope and are often used on lifelines and the standing rigging of small boats. Many traveling riggers have one bolted in the back of their truck or van. These put sufficient pressure on smaller swage fittings to give 100 percent strength of the wire.

The true rotary-swaging machine is a giant among tools. Most stand about five feet tall and weigh an actual ton or more. They have dies for each wire size that are hammered into the swage fitting multiple times by an interference-fit rolling hammer. In operation, they shake a concrete building and can be heard a quarter mile away, so there is no mistaking the fact that the terminal was beat onto the wire. These machines cost many thousands of dollars, a crane to install, and run on 220-volt, three-phase power—I’ve never met a recreational sailor that owned one.

So, with that long lesson, the answer to your question is "no!" Do not use what the catalogs sell as a "hand swager" for putting on swage fittings—they are only for copper sleeves and a few special lifeline fittings.

Some Reputable Ultralights use the thick coppery swedges (doubled up on critical wires). You have to measure to make sure you have the right squeeze, but that is good enough for me.
I am more afraid of trap line/wire/hook breaking than demasting, actually. Some one will eventually find the boat...
A few times the time the crew has wondered why I'm sheeting so hard with the hull coming up, only to turn and find... no skipper. (Skipper had death grip on mainsheet, ploughing thru the water)

been there done that - torn rotator cuff as a result too. I'll try to let go of the sheet in the future.

It was humbling looking at my crew on the wire - hull raising higher and higher - when looked back at me in the water and realized I was no longer part of the equation! To my surprise, however, he stuck with it and the boat rounded up and settled down.

I picked up the materials yesterday, and will make up the cables tonight.

Thanks to all for the input, and thenks Mary for the insight on the terms.

Don and John, any tips from what you have learned from Capt. Kirk that you would be willing to share?

Thanks,

Mike

P16
H17
P19 #357

Here's a link to a source of some usefull info on this.

Check out the new types of wire and rod end fittings available.


I don't reccomend any of the synthetics for standing rigging. All of it except PBO stretches more than the mfg's like to admit. In a boat as small as a beach cat, the weight savings are minimal and the extra costs (yearly replacement) are higher.

Hi Mike -

Sawyer did mine - he somehow gauged the length such that the end was just inside the swage furthest from the thimble, then he used the press to snug the second swage firmly against the thimble before compressing it. Nice finish with no meathook! Did it all by eye without spilling a drop!

Good luck - wish I had more practical advice for you.

I don't know what happened to the link, but here's a second try


www.bosunsupplies.com

Hi - Used to do lots of this for glider launching in the past.....

Short summary: It's best (for boat rigging) to let a GOOD pro do it for you. Small cost, large benefit.

Longer version: Sure, you could do it with the right tools, but for most people, you end up compromising. Even if it is not a safety of life issue, it's still a bummer to lose the mast in the middle of a sail or race (seen it/been there many times).

This does not mean that you need be a slave/subject to your Brand-Whatever factory. Your local sailboat (leaner) rigger can almost surely do a 1-st class job. If in doubt, try my local place http://sailingsupply.com/ . They do a very good job for whatever you need (small cats - large AC boats).

Sail fast & have fun,
Alan Thompson
I20 - San Diego