Condor help

I have a sight problem that maybe somebody on here could help me with. I have back in my possession a circa 75 Condor catamaran built by Zygal boats in England. The problem I have is I have some missing parts that I either need replaced or fabricated. If anybody has any parts, measurements etc please let me know. What I need is the front cross bar length as well as the front bridle height at center along with the angle going to the top of the bridle from each bow. Thanks for any help.

Brian, You might try posting at thebeachcats.com as well. I'm sure Damon at the beachcats dot com would appreciate a picture of your boat. I'd like to see what a Condor looks like myself. I suspect that someone from one of the two sites will give you your answers. Good luck!

Yes, I would. Never seen a Condor cat either. Although they are mentioned on the Irish Catsailing site.
http://www.catamaran.ie/news/1999/history.htm No pictures though.

I'll have to get ahold of a digital camera or find the pics that I used to have around here somewhere. I found that page last night myself while trying to find info on the boat. What I did find out was that the Hurricane 4.9 was basically the same boat but modified but again I can't find any pictures on the Hurricane either.

I was about to respond that I used to race against a Condor and sailed on one in the Ft. Lauderdale to Montego Bay Race, but then I finally saw the word "catamaran" and that blew out that post. The Condor I know of is a trimaran.

While you are putting pix up, also post one on our picture site.
It is located at http://www.catsailor.com/gallery/
At that point I believe all you can do is view what albums are there, except those registered users that want to keep personal albums unavailable. (Neat way to collect albums of family, friends, etc and not have them stowed in the attic, yet still private)
To post pix you have to register and give a verifiable email address. You will not be able to post until the program emails you back. At that point you can log in and upload pictures.

To get started you need to start an Album or two or more. Click on Click on and then in the box below name your album. If you want more than one, Click on again and again until you have all the Albums you want. Then click on

Then all you have to do is Click on , select the Album you want it in and click on Upload.
The size of the pix is limited to no more than 2000 x 2000.

At any rate, that is the basics.
Thanks,
Rick

After doing a LOT of hunting I did manage a obsure picture of a Hurricane 4.9 which is basically a modifed Condor. I can't tell what mods were done but the hull shape looks pretty much the same from what I can tell. Hurricane 4.9

Brian,
I got your email this morning. I was rushing so I did not answer. I took some photos of a Condor at the Club today and will get those measurments hopefully tomorrow.
The only difference between a Condor and a Hurricane 4.9 is the rig. When Reg White started building the Condor, he decided to add an extra bit of power, so he designed a larger rig, taller mast and greater sail area.
I will be in touch.
Dermot

I owe you big time Dermot! I did run across a bit of info earlier that had general measurements for both the Condor and the Hurricane and did notice that the Hurricane carried a bit more sail area. Maybe you could tell me if parts are still available for a Condor/Hurricane 4.9. If all goes well I hope to have the boat back in the water this summer. I still remember how fast the boat was especially in a heavy chop. We could be out in water that other boats couldn't due to their tendency to play submarine commander. lol

You wanna see a Condor, well don't get your hopes up. I am not used to posting Pictures, and my scanning is not too good. The quality of the pictures from old magazines and posters leaves a lot to be desired.

The Condor was designed in 1969 by John Mazzotti. ( He also designed the brilliant single hander the Unicorn - still raced, probably the first "A Cat" see www.catamaran.co.uk/unicorn/unicorn.htm ). The Condor was quite advanced for its time, but it had a series of "not so great" builders and, when the much simpler, but equally fast, Dart 18 came along, the Condor was left behind. By the time Reg White took it over it was too late, even with the Hurricane 4.9 rig.
I hope that you can find it at:
www.catsailor.com/gallery/index.php?cat=10029

Wow- those Unicorns and Condors are beauties!

They are a bit old but they still look beautiful to me. Thank you so very much for taking the time to help a Yank out. I will tell you this much though, for a boat of it's age I still think it stands the test of time. Too bad it never really hit it off very well over here because it was a fine sailing boat.

Dermot,
I was surprised that on the Unicorn website it does not say anything about the fact that the Unicorn (an A-Class cat) was a primary candidate, along with the Tornado (at that time a B-Class cat), to become the first Olympic class catamaran. One of the main requirements was that the design had to be capable of being home-built to keep the Olympics accessible and affordable.

Both boats met that requirement, but the home-building theory doesn't seem to have worked out very well for the Olympics.

I always wondered about the home built Tornado's and such myself. I'm sure with my great woodworking skills I might end up with something out of Tom Sawyer if I'm lucky.

I just got ahold of some really good Condor pictures. If you want to take a look at them they are here: Condor Pictures

That's the genuine article alright !
You can see where the extra hatchcovers have been fitted to facilitate work on the centreboard casings, which tended to leak. Mainly because they were transported on a unique road trailer. The cat faced backwards (or the back faced forward). The hulls were supported by two padded cups (sounds risqué)
in the centre of each hull and at the centre of the rear beam. This support was also the mast support. The padding on the hull supports wore away over time, and while travelling the metal ate into the hulls.
It is easy to spot the French K L beside the Condor,and the Dart launcher under the Condor but who recognised the red Dart 16 on the other side. And another yellow Dart 16 further down with its rudders in the upright position..

No, I don't know who owns the van in the background - but I bet that it has a UK reg.

While I am at it, as well as the UK and Irish Condor fleets, there was a reasonable French fleet at one time, and also for some reason, one in Cyprus.

I have added another photo to my Condor album. It shows one of the last Condors built by Reg White in 1988. It is now based in Galway Bay Sailing Club.
It also shows the trailer arrangement, although I don't think that the mast should be resting on the forebeam.
Over on the right hand side, I have just spotted the only Prindle 16 in Ireland. It is now red, but was originally yellow. It came from Canada in the early eighties in a container as personal luggage, with a Doctor (originally from England) who came to work in Ireland.
I have just had another query from someone in England, maybe we should revive this class !

Wonder what it would cost to build that boat today. It would be nice to take the hull design of the Condor and put a more modern sail plan on it. I love pipe dreams.

Scale it down to 14' and change to dagger-boards, toss 300 sq. ft. of sail on it and race in the F14 class

I think the basic hull design is fine. The only things I would update on it is the rudder design and the sail shape. One question Dermont. Where did Zygal figure into the Condor's production run?

There was (is) a Zygal Boatyard in Whitstable and Sharp Catamarans in Whitstable were the builders in 1981. I also know that there was a Condor fleet there in the Eighties. It is not far from Brightlingsea, where Reg White is based.
In 1970 a guy called Arthur Edmonds was the Condor builder and brought the first Condors to Ireland. He came over and raced against the Shearwaters to prove that the Condor was faster.

My Condor has a plate on the port hull that says Zygal Boat's in Whitestable so I've always assumed that was the company that built my Condor.

Just one question...why daggerboards? Ever tried to lift up two daggerboards when coming towards the beach on a nice beam reach? I'll keep the centerboard layout thank you very much.

If it's for home-building, a dagger-board case would be much easier to do. Also, if you're coming in to shore on a beam reach you should let the main out to take pressure off the boards and slow the boat before slamming into the beach.
Centerboards don't rotate all that well on a beam reach either. I've crewed on my friends P18-2 and we were double-trapped and flying through waves and hit a sandbar with the leeward board. It didn't rotate up at all, just lost a small chunck off the tip.

I never had a problem with mine rotating when coming ashore no matter what the speed. The big pain with my Condor was the rudder design. They were not of a kickup design, you had to reach down and pull a T handle on each one to get them to unlock. As far as flying into shore, I did mean that as a joke. I do recall (going to give my age away a bit) seeing a Sizzler coming in and neither rudder kicked up then the boat came to a screeching halt on the beach with one guy in the trap. Let's just say it was breezy that day and the guy in the trap got to go flying when the boat tipped on it's side. For those of you too young to know what a Sizzler was it was an all aluminum cat that to me had to be about as ugly as an Aqua Cat.

I saw a Condor loose both its transoms when he hit a sandbank !

That's really quite funny, as I tend to fly my G-Cat into shore when there's a nice crowd nearby. Those deep-V hulls dig right in and send my flying on the trapeze. I've got a neat little dismount that sends me right up to the bow so I can start dragging the bow into the wind. However, my G-Cat doesn't have 'boards

Earlier in the same day as I mentioned in my previous post, we had both boards up on a broad reach coming into shore. We surfed the P18-2 on a nice little 3' wave into the shore and slid so far up the beach that we were out of the wet sand. A couple guys surfing a kayak gave us a little cheer



Hans Geissler was talking to me about Sizzlers. He said that is where some of the inspiration for the G-Cat design came from (he used to sell Sizzlers). I remember the red one from Jaws, but that's about it....

Reminded me of this picture

I thought condor's were all but extinct. Beautiful birds though... If you are having trouble with your's, I think you'ld be better off taking it to see a vet, instead of posting here. These guys will tell you everything will be ok after a bottle of rum. In fact, they might try and convince you to feed the bird rum as well. In any case, YRMV.

Brian I have recently joined this chat room and read your questions regarding the Condor. I have a sailing buddy that owns a reg white 1986 one. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience with this boat(it is his second one). Would you like him to contact you? Randy darter159@aol.com

Here's the deal...

EBay Condor

Darter you've got mail. I have tried to contact several people in the UK regarding info and not had much success. I last emailed a chap at Sailspar but never heard back from him. The boat still is in my back yard in pieces BUT I can report that the Hobie 14 Turbo I aquired is coming together nicely if I can just find a new jib for it and get the main reparied.

Dermont still not having any luck on the spars and other pieces. I never did hear from anybody at Sailspar.

Try Andy Web in the UK :

awsailboats (at) rya-online.net

he should be able to help

Sorry to hear that Brian.
Sailspar are the people who originally made the spars for the Condor, so they are the ones to contact. They told me that they would deal with you.
Sailspar Ltd
Phone 01206 302679
Fax 01206 303796
www.sailspar.co.uk

As Simon says, Andy Webb (contact me via this forum and I can possibly get you his contact info) certainly knows the Condor and also deals with David Beech in Sailspar. Andy is currently building new Shearwaters (a design older than the Condor), maybe he might take on the Condor as well.

Dermott, I would not put e-mail addresses into public forum posts, the web crawler software WILL Pick it up and snow the account with Junk. I'd suggest you ask Rick to edit it out.

Thanks Simon, I have done that.
I wasn't thinking, I hadn't been on the forum for a week, saw Brian's message and just sent off a quick reply.
Dermot.