What you ppl think about this?

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/r...04/06_13-18/SAL

about a boat in the C100. Anyone that was there shed another light on this?

I'm missing something - what are you talking about?

I didn't sail the Saturday leg; too windy for my crew (I didn't want to have to explain to my sister how I got her daughter injured). I think this was an Inter 20. The crew injured their eye and was transported to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. I understand they are going to be OK. The report is wrong in that they weren't overwhelmed by deteriorating weather; the weather was seriously bad (if lots of rain and too much wind is bad) from the start. We also understood that the cat sailors got the boat upright and then got help for the crew and had the boat towed back. Maybe the keel boater didn't make such an heroic rescue...

12 boats started and 7 made it to Soloman's so the day was sailable (if tough). Chris Brown took line honors on an 18HT with WF crewing for him. The second day was a pussy cat with 3 to 8 mph winds.

David
H20

I don't see any article about the c100...?

They didn't reference it by name Jake, but thats what they were talking about.

I can be 'thick' sometimes but I just don't get it. There are three article links on the page you provided (that I see anyway) and I can't find any reference.

"Alberg 30 group celebrates 40th anniversary of a classic"
"Latest Sjambok ready for Newport-to-Bermuda Race"
"Gary Mentesana captures Irey Regatta"

Which one is it?

Try this link.

http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi-bin/read/2004/06_13-18/SAL

thats weird. The first URL works at work, but not at home.

Sorry Jake.

It's your browsers cache and it's settings.

Dave

I'd say there were more than a few holes in this story. Who were the "men" on the "20-foot catamaran?" What was their experience level? What kind of boat was it? Who owned the boat? Which of the sailors was the skipper? Where is a quote from the race organizer regarding the race and it's safety record? Where is a quote from the cat sailors telling their side of the story? What really caused the capsize, did something break, was it a big puff, a wave, a rouge blue crab biting someone on the toe? I've been a journalist for more than a decade and I can't believe the editor didn't send this one back to the reporter for more research.

I was there and did finish the race. It was truly a wild ride--all 50 miles. Both the skipper and crew were competent sailors and were 2nd boat around bloody point before their unfortunate accident.

I do not believe they used poor judgement. No more than anyone who does distance races on 20' cats.

The article did have several holes. The part about the 30kts and 6-8' foot waves was true. I thought some were even larger! It's rare that you see cresting waves on the bay--it truly great to be on an I20 that day!

Both sailors were going downwind when the boat stuffed into a wave, pitchpoled, and turtled. The part about the separation I believe is true, but it was not from the first capsize. My understanding is that they righted the boat from turtle, and during the process the boat got away from the skipper who was hanging on to the dolphine striker. He had to let go before the boat capsized again several yards away.

He was picked up by the larger power boat a few minutes later. The part about the hypothermia I don't think was true. Both were in dry suits--although its possible. The crew was injured in the eye.

It was a great race, although not for the faint of heart.

Don
I20 511

What can we learn from this ?

1) People will sensationalise the event to make a story about it.
2) Catamarans DO capsize. The issue of crew separation is a serious one. It prevents the crew who is still with the boat from being able to right it, and the other crew who is swimming may not be able to catch up to the boat, or may be unable to do so due to concussion. This has happened many times, sometimes with fairly serious consequences.
This occurred in the Malawi 500, a race from South to North on Lake Malawi. It can get pretty nasty even on the lake, some 700km long body of water. An I-20 skipper was separated from the boat leaving his son on the boat, who was unable to right the boat, and the skipper had to wait until after dark before using his flares. It took them a good few hours to locate him, after 9pm I believe. He was less than 500 metres from the boat. The good news is that they did find him, and the water wasn`t so cold, or hypothermia could have become an issue.

So how to prevent this ? I read a post a while ago on the subject of tethering yourself to the boat by running the mainsheet through a climbing caribener, but I think that could become dangerous in some instances, like being trapped under the boat. Perhaps a Quick-release caribener would work, such as those used in paragliding.
I`ve been separated from my boat sailing solo, and had to swim like mad to just manage to catch the tip of the mast, and could barely hang on, the trampoline makes quite an effective sail. If I`d missed the mast the boat would have been gone, it was going much faster than I could swim.

On the first point, I`m going to assume the following :
- The race organisers would have required the necessary safety equipment to be carried by all competitors.
- The competitors concerned did have those, ie flares etc.
- They had not yet reached the situation where either of them believed they required the use of them, or they would have used them.
- A passing yacht / powerboat saw them & offered assistance, which, given the circumstances, was fortunate since a crew member was injured, and the skipper may not have been able to catch up to the boat, in which case the crew would probably have used his flares, so the situation could have become serious.

We need to accept that our sport does carry some risks, and come up with ways to minimise those risks if possible, We wear PDF`s, carry flares etc, sometimes we could do more to prevent a situatuion, but until we become aware of the potential of danger, we don`t think of these things.
Anyone else have any comment on how to prevent crew separation, please advise ?

Cheers
Steve

Steve,

Isn't this how most articles are written? Go for sensation first, and then follow up with the facts later (if necessary)? I guess if they had written this based on all the facts then they wouldn't have been able to use such an eye catching headline.
Am I the only one that doesn't believe anything I read in the papers or see in the news?

got it now...

Hi Don,
A little drag chute off the bow of the overtuned boat would have made this situation much safer.
Bill

All,
I'll post on this in about an hour, I've got a meeting to go to, but can shed some light along with what Don and David have said.

Keith

On the first point, I`m going to assume the following :
- The race organisers would have required the necessary safety equipment to be carried by all competitors.

True: see www.sailcrac.com for the NOR with the required gear. We are always open to suggestions. Please remember... this gear is a race requirement not saftey gear. (The coast guard specifies those requirments) We could required a dancing hula girl statue on the spin pole for eligiblity! Skippers assume all responsiblity for sailing and or continuing to race.

- The competitors concerned did have those, ie flares etc.
True!

- They had not yet reached the situation where either of them believed they required the use of them, or they would have used them.
True!

- A passing yacht / powerboat saw them & offered assistance, which, given the circumstances, was fortunate since a crew member was injured, and the skipper may not have been able to catch up to the boat, in which case the crew would probably have used his flares, so the situation could have become serious.
True!

We need to accept that our sport does carry some risks, and come up with ways to minimise those risks if possible, We wear PDF`s, carry flares etc, sometimes we could do more to prevent a situatuion, but until we become aware of the potential of danger, we don`t think of these things.

Well said!

Anyone else have any comment on how to prevent crew separation, please advise ?

Bill's drogue chute solution sounds like a very good idea.... pulling the spin out would have worked as well in this situation.

Without the freak accident resulting in injury. ....this situation would have been no big deal for these sailors.

Note: We have had instances when sailors did not carry the required gear and a sailor was seperated from the boat. In that case, another racing cat rescued the skipper and returned him to his boat. The skipper was DSQ'ed from the race and suffered no end of crap about his poor judgment.

We have had sailors out at night and one launched a flare generating a coast guard response for a non emergency. This was a another case of poor judgment and we now review the Coast Guard rules before the race.

Mark Schneider
PRO, C100 2003.

This is a quote from the article:
"Most boating accidents occur due to poor judgment," said Owings, a no-nonsense sort. "For those guys to be out racing a 20-foot catamaran in those conditions was ridiculous. Thank goodness they'll both live to sail again."

and this is another quote from the same article:
"Owings, an 84-year-old farmer...was headed for a Singles on Sailboats rendezvous"

To me it seems even more ridiculous that an 84-year-old farmer was headed for a Singles On Sailboats rendezvous.

but that's just my opinion...

Steve

There are some publications that report stories this way and they give ethical journalists a black eye. In every profession there are some who are too lazy or too incompetent to do a good job and thereby make it tougher for true professionals. That's not to say that mistakes aren't made by good reporters. Even the best journalists screw up, particularly when working under deadline pressures, but this story is a joke and so obviously lopsided that even the most gullible reader must be skeptical.

Most glaring is a the lack of quotes from the cat sailors. I still don't know who these guys are or what their story is. It's fair to be cynical when reading newspapers, watching TV news, or particularly when reading internet news. The glut of media outlets has made competition fierce, pushing breaking news outlets to get the story published fast, but quality newspapers and magazines remain one of the most thorough and accurate news sources.

LOL Steven.
If one person is still on the boat, why not turtle it so the other can swim over? In my experience, it's not hard to get the boat back on it's side in 30 knots of wind.
Al

I was going to post the names of the sailors, but I've decided not to for now. Suffice to say that both of them are veterans. I consider both to be good friends and excellent sailors. Both have sailed the C-100 in good conditions and bad. The boat was an I-20.

The sailor crewing was injured, perhaps suffering permanent damage to his eye, only time will tell. So, one inaccuracy is that there was a minor injury. I don't believe the hypothermia claim, I do however believe the injured sailor was treated in a manner consistent with treating shock - blankets and such were appropriate. The skipper stayed on, even going back into the water to assist righting his boat with the Boat U.S. aid - just a little inconsistent with hypothermia.

The claim that the boat was capsized due to being overwhelmed by the large seas is a bit dramatic.

What happened, if I remember right from their story - After rounding Bloody Point, they stuffed the bows a couple of times, no problem. Then they stuffed and the skipper's foot came out of the foot strap. He did the usual tour of the front of the boat, then swung around the back to the other side. His trap line came unhooked and the dogbone shot toward the crew, hitting him in the face/eye. They capsized. I believe they righted the boat successfully, but ended up capsizing again after they got going. I think they righted this time too, but then the skipper got separated from the boat, the boat capsized (I believe it went turtle). The injured crew was having problems seeing, so there wasn't much he could do to help by himself, and that probably contributed to the final situation. It's at that point that the assisters came upon them.

I don't recall them saying that the CG was called, but two Boat U.S. boats ended up coming out - one took the injured sailor to land, while the other helped right the boat and tow it back to Galesville. The injured sailor ended up at one hospital, then was transferred to Hopkins because it was believed the injury was beyond the capabilities of the first hospital. Initial reports we got were of a shattered cheek bone and fractured orbital socket. In the end, there no broken bones at all, but he did suffer a injury to the eye itself, and only time will tell if sight will properly return to that eye. We're all pulling for a full recovery for our good friend and mentor.

I don't believe they were in risk of a fatality, they were well equipped and would have used the radio for help if they needed it. As it was, the boat that assisted them happened along at an opportune moment. That all having been said, it is serious to be separated from your boat in heavy weather, and shouldn't be treated lightly. But, as they were second around the lighthouses, other cats would soon be coming through that area and would have assisted.

As for the rescuers other statements about judgement and racing catamarans, well, I'd say those come from ignorance. I personally believe that the conditions were very tough, but not out of the acceptable range. Out of the 15 or so boats that registered, 7 finished (one was a DNF for not making the proper roundings). Of those that did not finish, some did not take the start, and some retired after experiencing the conditions near the West River. So, people did excercise judgement based on the conditions and what they felt confortable with. The boat designs in use have proven themselves in such conditions and worse. Had the eye injury not occured, I have no doubt that these guys would have been in the top of the finishing order on Saturday.

From our personal experience in the race, the conditions were rougher getting out of the mouth of the West River and around Thomas Point then they were after Bloody Point. We broke some stuff but our biggest realization was that it would be better after the lighthouses, and it was, for us at least.

That all having been said - I agree with Bill that a drogue is a good thing to have in conditions where the boat might blow away after capsize. I used to carry a righting bag on my 18 with just such a purpose as one of the reasons. We also encountered driving spray that made vision difficult - good protective eyewear is a must even if you don't need sunglasses. But eyewear that's also able to take a hit would be a great thing to have, and could have helped the injured sailor. It might also be prudent in heavy conditions to wear head protection - I never thought much about this before, but I'm giving it more thought. Tethers are worth considering.

As for the folks who assisted - many thanks, it was truly good that you came along and helped. Thanks again. But it's a shame that tone was taken in the article without true knowledge of the capabilities and preparation of the sailors involved. Badness can happen to all of us, and as sailors we all face the prospect of receiving aid in a bad situation. I'd stand by their decision to race on that day.

Even though I've told this story, I'll not claim that I speak for the sailors involved, they may have their own to add and may disagree wtih what I've said.

Keith, you should mail this post in to the publication/site with perhaps the participants reviewing and/or adding material. I think it's worth the trouble and they might print it, surely a worthwhile follow-up with far more facts than the previous story, which focused on the 84 year old man and the tale of a "valiant rescue."

kh

ABSOLUTELY

I don't know this publication, but it has done a disservice to catamaran sailing and sailors. The editor has a responsibility to get this one right. I suspect that the guys on the I-20 were far more competent than the farmer on his way to a Singles on Sailboats gathering. His help was warrented, but his comments were ignorant, as was pointed out. Kieth, if you know the full story, and it sounds like you do, a call and/or a letter to the reporter and his editor is a good idea.

Just 2 more cents...Where was the chicken line? There is no good reason to take a ride round the forestay by stuffing the bow. A chicken line is easy to use, does not need to be a hawser, and is [color:"red"] not [/color] a mark of incompetence.

Yes - I think some response to the editor is in order, we'll work out what's appropriate between the sailors themselves and CRAC.

If there were chicken lines, I don't believe they were in use. I do know the skip was using the footstraps.

We had chicken lines on our boat, but I honestly felt comfortable just using the footstraps myself in that area. Maybe that was a false sense of security...