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New Speed Sailing Record

Posted By: Jake

New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 04:09 PM

Boys...we've got work to do....

From Sailing Anarchy:

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Subject to ratification by the WSSRC, the overall sailing speed record has been beaten last weekend by sailboarder Finian Maynard after a 46.82 knots run in the sailing speed channel of Les Saintes Maries de la mer (France). Wild


[Linked Image]
Posted By: Sycho15

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 04:16 PM

beautiful picture, I wonder how hard the wind was blowing?
Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 05:12 PM

The wind was between 35 and 45 knots and I would imagine that they are wearing weight jackets.
Posted By: John Williams

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 05:17 PM

Holy crap! That takes balls - wearing a weight jacket in the water!

Do you think it has a quick release??
Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 05:24 PM

Yeah - under that stretch shirt too! However, I think that ditch they're running in in France is only four feet deep max. Here's a link to an awesome video from that same location a couple of weeks ago. The first guy shown in the video is the new record holder (this video is not from the record run).

http://www.mastersofspeed.com/filez/video/canal30march.mpg
Posted By: mbounds

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 05:33 PM

Whoa, Jake! You might want to warn people that's a 96 Mb file you linked to.

Not safe for dial up and guaranteed to have your IT Director at work wondering where all the bandwidth went to!
Posted By: hobiesailor

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 06:24 PM

That's NUTS.... might also be some sort of body armor... a wipe out at that speed or hitting shore at that speed is going to HURT.
Posted By: David Parker

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 07:40 PM

I thought that black underwear thing was a trap harness but I bet it is French "Depends"...that speed might scare the sh#t out of me! Kind of "fall and die" sailing. Is the ditch lined with hay bales?
Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 08:37 PM

96mb? Whoaa...didn't know it was that large. I'm surprised our IT MPs hadn't come to visit me yet :-)
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/15/04 09:47 PM

Full write-up here

It was a touch windier than comment above suggest :

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"What a fantastic but grueling two days of rugged and psychotic conditions that actually went unsailed a lot of the time because the wind was blowing too hard for the equipment that we all had. 5.0’s were huge just to give an idea of what we were facing and that is what the smallest sails were for the most part. In fact, a modern 4.0-4.4 would have been the preferable size for just about everyone as we got hit by afternoon stretches on both afternoons whereby there was a solid 50-knots gusting to 60 for literally two hours at a time.

Be jesus... it was nuts and the lid literally flew off the top with the wind gods. Unfortunately the angle we were asking for was too much today (130-140) as big chop developed on the course making it very difficult to go fast.

Survival was the name of the game sometimes but breaking the record further requires calculated control, power and finesse, which is simply impossible to achieve in unison with the Mistral. The wind is far too irregular and twitchy to be super fast, fast enough for 50. We are looking for the big SE for that but it is clear that all the sailors were pretty happy with what we got and simply making it through the experience without injury!

Posted By: tigerboy1

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 12:20 AM

Speed sailing record at 46 plus knots??? What about iceboats? They are sail driven to speeds in excess of 70 MPH with the right conditions. Do we have to designate soft vs. hard water? Just letting people know there are FASTER wind driven machines out there.
Posted By: jfint

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 12:33 AM

speakoing of faster wind driven machines, big land sailing event in primm nevada, just outside Las Vegas, thanksgiving weekend. Wish I could make it. Anyhow, if it blows ther ethey will do some speed trails, I'll report back on what they do.
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 01:04 PM

Yellow Pages has fallen !!!

The record is for the fastest craft on water. (yes, Ice is also water ) but they have their own record category.

Anyone who has fallen off a shortboard at 25 knots will know how INSANE doing the same thing at almost double the speed, wearing 8kg of water ballast instead of a lifejacket.
They don`t fall off - they have BAD ACCIDENTS.

Hats off to Dave White (Son of Reg) who sailed a PRODUCTION BOARD at over 44. I want one !!!
Posted By: scooby_simon

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 02:39 PM

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Yellow Pages has fallen !!!

The record is for the fastest craft on water. (yes, Ice is also water ) but they have their own record category.

Anyone who has fallen off a shortboard at 25 knots will know how INSANE doing the same thing at almost double the speed, wearing 8kg of water ballast instead of a lifejacket.
They don`t fall off - they have BAD ACCIDENTS.

Hats off to Dave White (Son of Reg) who sailed a PRODUCTION BOARD at over 44. I want one !!!


Indeed, and he's Robert's Brother too - Top bloke and built like a brick outhouse
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 03:15 PM

Hi Simon,
"Indeed, and he's Robert's Brother too - Top bloke and built like a brick outhouse "

To do speedsailing at this level you have to weigh in at about 100kg, and then still wear weightjackets !!!
I can`t believe the size sails these guys hold down in 40 knots and more, I`m down to a 4,7sqm sail in 25knots, they are setting records with 5sqm or more, in 45 knot winds.

Dave`s record is in my mind the most impressive, just 2 knots shy of the real deal on a production board is unbelievable.

Sorry if I`m raving about these acchievements, but I`ve waited 11 years just to be able to say that sailboards are the fastest wind-powered water-borne craft once again !!!

Cheers
Steve
Posted By: SteveT

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 10:03 PM

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I`ve waited 11 years just to be able to say that sailboards are the fastest wind-powered water-borne craft


It was just a matter of time. Yellow Pages landed its record really quickly, but the specialty-built craft have proven unworthy of the task since then. Sailboards, on the other hand, have been chipping away at the 500-meter record ever since and have almost certainly broken it, but outside of the strict record-breaking format that the sanctioning body requires. The true grail of speed, 50 knots, is well within reach of the current crew of boardsailors. In fact, with the conditions they had, I'm surprised that it didn't fall.

I hate to generalize, but a catamaran will never go that fast, not with a crew in control of it.
Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/16/04 10:29 PM

Yeah, but if you could statistically look at the number of attempts and the number of vessels attempting to break the record, windsurfers certainly has a huge leg up compared to specialty vehicles like Yellow Pages. Statistically speaking, I would say that the specialty vehicles have a shot at getting the record back....YP set the record 11 years ago in a 25knot breeze. Their new boat is designed to be able to handle slightly more wind. I think we'll see a comeback from these guys now that the heat is on.
Posted By: SteveT

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/17/04 03:33 AM

Actually, both sides are constantly working to break the record and have made neumerous attempts all over the world. The key is finding the right weather. For windsurfers, the wind has to crank and the water needs to be flat - a nautical oxymoron. It also must blow at just right direction without much of a shift - another tall order. Purpose-built crafts need less wind, but most of them have serious control issues. I just did a story for Outside Mag. about a British outfit called Speedrocket. They have been working on the design for several years and are confident that they can break 50 knots with their contraption. The skipper has some solid credentials with multihulls and the design looks good on paper, but they haven't gotten it going very fast in real life. Both sides are really enthusiastic and confident that their vehicle is the only way to fly, so to speak. Like I said: Time will tell.
Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/17/04 06:08 AM

On one hand you have the sailboards that are everyday equipment (well....sort of) sailed in a purpose built narrow ditch with flat water out in conditions that not many would venture out in. On the other hand you have the specialty built crafts that are masters of efficiency and able to nearly double wind speed and are sailing thus far on natural, but ideal, bodies of water. Technology against brawn...sort of?
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/17/04 11:28 AM

Hi guys,
I think the windsurfing guys have done it simply because they have spent more time refining technique than equipment. I could be wrong, but the boards & sails haven`t changed much in the last 2 years. Small refinements, not quantum leaps.
The specialised craft guys have to spend a lot of time & money just designing and building the thing, and have to do lots of computer predictions on how fast the thing SHOULD go, before they even get it on the water.
I`m sure one of them will get the record back, as has been said before, they are sailing at double windspeed or more, so can attempt records in lighter wind which should mean less breakdowns. The advantage the board guys have here is that the equipment seldom breaks, it`s the sailors that do if they fall !

To me, there`s a greater level of personal acchievement for the guy who is hanging on at the ragged edge, rather than sitting in a **** with a windscreen and some levers to fiddle with. No discredit meant to the specialised craft sailors, for it takes special skills to drive those things too.

Cheers
Steve
Posted By: Luiz

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/17/04 02:14 PM

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I hate to generalize, but a catamaran will never go that fast, not with a crew in control of it.


A small cat, maybe. I recall a maxi-cat sailing at 44 knots once. It is hard to imagine that they would try anything in a 500 meter course, but Orange, Geronimo and the like are conceived to sail very close to the record, with equipment, crew and food on board.

The bottom line is that specially conceived craft may increase speed merely increasing size (and price) but windsurfers can not. As a consequence, windsurfers are very close to their limits, while specially conceived craft and maxi multihulls may continue to develop, if not improving the technology, merely increasing size.

One example: if someone decided to build a conventional maxi proa with the same length and technology of today's maxi cats, it will almost certinly beat the outright record. Money is the limitation.

Cheers,
Luiz
Posted By: Colin

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/17/04 10:11 PM

The limiting factor is viscous resistance.

Increasing the size of a catamaran certainly reduces it's wetted area compared to the displacement, but the viscous resistance increases with nearly the square of the speed (according to ITTC 1957). Some method of reducing wetted surface is essential to increasing top speeds. This is what windsurfing equipment does so well.

-colin
Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/17/04 10:53 PM

This is from www.wetasschronicles.com (which is taken from www.mastersofspeed.com). I don't think we'll see them get a whole lot faster with their current configuration - at least without some serious injuries. Just listen to what it took to make that record breaking run! I'm interested to see the fun you guys have with his "technically" faster than that run statement.

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"From what I had heard from Pascal, Christophe, Michel and Thierry the Mistral was a hard wind and hard to go fast in so 50-knots would probably have to wait. What arrived was beyond my wildest dreams and everyone else’s for that matter. There were stretches of wind that were almost hurricane strength with a bright blue sky! We had gotten the real Mistral, the true French wind that is so famous worldwide.

I was sharing the van with Erik and when we arrived at the beach at 9am on Saturday it was clear that it was going to be a good day. When we opened at 10am I went down the run with my big board (37.5 w/ 24 fin) and my 5.4. The time was 43.5 but I could already feel that this course was much harder than the SE and I wanted to get on smaller stuff immediately. I had to work so much more and the little gusts all the way down coming over the land were super tough. They are invisible basically so it is just a feeling and a hard-core one at that. The power surging that I felt last December 3rd when I beat 46-knots for the first time was tiddly-winks compared to this rugged North wind.

I switched down quickly to my 5.0 and tiny board (33) after several more runs that were between 43 and 44.5. I just wanted to get rid of as much surface area as I could because it was simply easier to hold down. Erik helped make a key change happen for me with my fins as I had too small of a fin in my little board that became nervous sometimes so we put a 24 in the 5.0 setup and instantly I gained directional stability and smoother average speeds.

For the first time I wore a GPS unit in my runs which was exciting and very useful to learn what was happening with my top speeds versus my average speeds. My times will be posted on www.gps-speedsurfing.com.

For those who are curious I have set a new unofficial GPS world record with a top speed of 49.3 knots!!! When I saw that and after Roger of gps-speedsurfing.com analyzed my run it was clear that I actually was averaging 48-49 knots for 400 meters of the run and I had a dip of 100 meters where I went down to 45 knots. As Erik puts it that is the ‘Mistral dip’ that happens just after the midpoint of the run so that is why my run ended up at 46.82. It was technically faster than that but that is the hard part of the ‘average’ speed calculations. One must maintain it over the full 500 meters...

It was pure gladiator fighting, the type of caveman uga-uga stuff that is hard on the mind and body. Our biggest problem was getting to the beginning of the run as there was a manageable 40-45 knots on the run but the start was freakin’ blowing 50-60…….it was insane. That is the only word that describes it. It was so hard to get up, even to get the feet in the straps, even to get the sail out of the water without it knocking you on the head super hard. The Canal was smoking with spray everywhere. It was incredible and unrideable with the gear I had. I tried pretty hard but I was tired already after the record run, which drained so much energy. I had a huge crash just before the start late in the afternoon and I got my bell rung mashing my body into the rig pretty hard. My GPS speed at the crash was 48-knots! After this I was more careful as I knew I had already broken the WR and I wanted to live to fight another day..."


Posted By: Jake

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/18/04 07:20 PM

here's a link to a video of the record breaking run....it's only 9mb or so this time!

http://www.wetasschronicles.com/FinianRecord.mpg

Oh and BTW...Macquarie Innovations crashed and burned yesterday - yesterday during conditions they had been waiting for (about 20knots of wind) the boat strangely veered off course and capsized. Skipper and crew are fine although it apparently took them some time to get freed from what was left of the ****. Due to the damage, they say it will probably be next year sometime before they can think about trying again.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/19/04 01:09 PM

Hi all,

this thread realy takes me back. I sailed in the first world ratified speed trials in Australia at Woodmans point south of Perth Western Aust. in about 82'or was it 83' getting to old, we thought we were great doing 28kts. in 28 kts. breeze, as always happens didn't blow as hard as the reputation of the place. There was one big guy there from Hawaii Fred Haywood but he was beaten by a little guy from France I think, Jeanne Piere Siret if I remember rightly. Technique seemed to matter more than brawn. Some Euros were wearing those streamlined suits back then and weight jackets. Cats were there, OZ's top Tornado sailer reached about 22kts. but the best surfcats were doing nearly as well. There was also a 18ft. skiff but it couldn't crack 20 kts.

I still have the speed board which was so narrow that my toes hung over one side and my heels the other. It is the only thing that bears any resemblance to the equipment they use now the fins and sails have had the most change. Sailboards will always be fast because they have so little contact with the water, the "mad scientist" contraptions will continue to come and go they were around before the sailboard.

Did you know that the skipper of Yellow Pages/Maquarie Inovations sails a A class and Taipan 4.9 sometimes with spinnaker, I have raced against him on my Mosquito with spinnaker many times and he is blown away by the downwind speed the one up Mosquito is capable of. Trying to get him hooked more on the F16 thing, hoping my new boat Altered might do it, but as you may guess he is a pretty busy guy especialy with his kids turning into top sailors, hope they to have the speed bug. They sail cats some of the time.

Oh well enough of the blast from the past, I'm showing my age.
Regards Gary.
Posted By: Steve_Kwiksilver

Re: New Speed Sailing Record - 11/19/04 02:39 PM

Hi Gary, as Jake put it "we have work to do .."
Fastest cat recorded over a 500m course was, I believe, a Tornado, at 23 knots (at least what I can gather from a previous thread on the subject.) These guys are running down the trench at double that speed.

Wow, that is some claim to fame, to have sailed a speed trials against Fred Haywood. He held the record for windsurfers at 32.86 knots, in 1986 I think. (Funny, I remember the speed, not the year, must be getting on.) That was when they said it would be impossible to break Crossbow 2`s record of 36 knots. Now all the serious efforts are in the 44 knot range !!

Time to dust off your old speedboard, then

Steve
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