My experience with Catastrophic Doug

As I promised to "Catastrophic Doug", who sells lots of used parts from Pensacola, FL via Internet, I want to share with others my experience dealing with him.
<br>
<br>I am located in Boston and was looking for a used H16 mast. Doug had one for a good price. I told him that I never bought a mast long distance and asked him whether it was ok to ship a mast from FL to MA. He said it's fine, he did it many times. I asked him whether he knew how to deal with the truckers, how to pack the mast properly and how to get the mast to me without damage. He said it was going to be fine. I paid for the mast and Doug arranged for the trucking company to ship it to me. I had nothing to do with the shipping part, as Doug was supposed to take care of it. The mast arrived with a big dent in it, which made the mast useless. Otherwise it was a great looking straight mast. It was not packed by any means, except for some cardboard wrapping around the ends and the forestay attachment point. It was evident that the dent was made by the trucking company, because the cardboard around the forestay point was ripped in a way similar to the dent in the aluminum mast wall. I asked Doug to deal with the truckers, since he chose that company. Suddenly he told me that I have to put the claim in and deal with them myself. I did put the claim in but naturally the claim was denied. Doug did not think of including standard insurance into the shipping costs. Doug offered to send me another mast if I paid the shipping, but the mast he offered was "slightly bowed." I did not need a third bowed mast, and I insisted that if he wanted to help me, then he should get another straight mast and I will pay for the shipping. Doug refused and this is where our discussion basically ended and I am now out of a few hundred bucks and still a bent mast. I told Doug that I would post this if he did not help me remedy his failure to insure and pack the mast properly, and here it is.
<br>
<br>Serge L.
<br>tallnikita@hotmail.com<br><br>

I'm glad you did. I've looked at buying some parts and have now scratched that name off of my list. Sounds like Doug dosen't like to be in business long with dealings like that.
<br>
<br>Clayton<br><br>

yeah - I guess buyer beware. Unethical yes but I don't think you have much leverage from a legal standpoint. It is actually the receivers responsibility to take it up with the trucking company (once you sign the papers, you are less likely to get an acknowledgement). You would then get to watch a a finger pointing excercise with the seller and trucking company where they use words like "proper preparation" and "improper handling" that results in a useless stalemate.
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<br>For future reference you can agree with the shipper prior to the sell and specify FOB - Seller or FOB - buyer. (Also sometimes as refered to as Ex-Works). If the contract (be it verbal or else) between you and the seller specified FOB-buyer it would mean that the actual ownership of the item takes place when it arrives to the buyer. FOB-seller means that the transfer of ownership takes place the second it leaves the sellers business. I can't recall exactly what FOB stands for and the phrase usually refers to the city of orignition instead of "seller" or "buyer". I.e. FOB-Pensacola, FL. If you specifiy this next time you will have legal ramifications with which to get it replaced. In this case, it sounds like you technically owned it the minute it was on the truck - FOB-seller is usually default.
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<br>Good Luck,<br><br>[color:blue][b]Jake
<br>[color:blue][b]Nacra 5.2 (2112)
<br>[color:blue][b]Hobie 18 (???)

We too had a similar problem with Doug. The comp tip on our Hobie 20 failed and we needed a new one. He had a great price, $100.00 and claimed it was in perfect shape.
<br>He told us it came from a mast off a brand new boat. The new boat had flipped over and bent the mast, but the comptip was in perfect condition.
<br>We took a chance, sent him the money and waited.
<br>When the package arrived it was wrapped in some cardboard with that silk like clear tape wrapped around it. It was not a good packing job and I was surprised when we opened it that it was actually intact.
<br>Here's the pisser.
<br>The bottom part of the comp tip where it fits into the mast, had huge gashed in it. we knew exactly what had happened.
<br>When he separated the comp tip from the mast he obviously used a screw driver or other flat long object and wedged it down in between the mast and the comp tip to pull it off of the mast.
<br>Needless to say the base of the comp tip was useless. The fiberglass was broken, gashed and cracked at EVERY fastening point.
<br>In an act of desperation, we tried to repair it by re-enforcing the bottom with more fiberglass.
<br>It worked for our first regatta, then at our second we had tacked over to the finish line when we heard a huge snap come from the top of the mast, and sure enough the comp tip looked like a broken toothpick.
<br>We never contacted the guy, now after hearing what happened to you, I regret not contacting him. We were just thankful that we did not get hurt nor did it tear our brand new mainsail!
<br>I know we learned our lesson the hard way from ordering cat parts online.
<br>Sorry to hear what happened to you.
<br>
<br>Tracie Van Houten<br><br>

I remember now - F.O.B. = Freight on Board.<br><br>[color:blue][b]Jake
<br>[color:blue][b]Nacra 5.2 (2112)
<br>[color:blue][b]Hobie 18 (???)

is Free On Board...ie, FOB Pensacola means he'll get it onto the truck, but having done so, his responsibility ends...likewise, FOB my loading dock means ownership changes when the item hits my dock..on the truck it still belongs to the seller.<br><br>Andrew Tatton
<br>Nacra 5.5u #417 +chute

Serge L.:
<br>
<br>We ship about one mast per week and it is our policy to use CIF freight (Yes
<br>I know, somewhat redundant phrase). This simply means that the freight is
<br>insured to $10 per pound with most carriers. This is pretty standard and I would surprised if
<br>the shipping company you are filing with didn't include that insurance on all
<br>packages.
<br>
<br>For those of you thinking about shipping masts:
<br>
<br>#1: The mast should be wrapped end to end in tube plastic at a bare minimum.
<br>It's our experience that if you don't do this the mast gets brutally
<br>scratched in transit. Some folks like to go with a square corrugated box in
<br>addition to this ($50.00) or a HD shipping tube ($95) but we have also found
<br>that over packaging them gives the freight companies license to thrash the
<br>package. (At least in their minds)
<br>
<br>#2 The mast should say in BIG YELLOW OR RED letters: "TOP LOAD ONLY" all over
<br>it. This ensures they don't stack (at least in theory) stuff on top of the
<br>mast.
<br>
<br>#3 Pay by credit card on all purchases. This leaves you at least some
<br>recourse to recover your funds if the mast doesn't arrive and meet the
<br>description the vendor gave you when you ordered it.
<br>
<br>It doesn't happen often but when we do have a claim on a mast we either:
<br>A) prevail on insurance or
<br>B) Find a way to work with the freight company to get another mast to the
<br>customer at NO EXTRA charge. Yes, we do lose money sometimes. That's
<br>business.
<br>
<br>There's my $1.02 worth....
<br>
<br>MM
<br>www.sailingproshop.com
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>Mark Michaelsen
<br>www.sailingproshop.com
<br>(800) 354-7245

I was going to step in and add a little positive feedback about the mail order experiences I have been having with Sailing Pro Shop, but I see Mark already has chimed in with some insight of his own.
I run a speciality retail store that competes with the big online monsters, so I will be the last person to push online or phone shopping in general. BUT- with this type of specialty item, and with a spotty local dealer network available, there is simply no better way than to deal with the experts at a REPUTABLE business that handles mail order transactions. I hear horror stories about online camera/photo shopping every single day, but this thing with the mast just makes me want to scream! It is just not that hard to do the right thing. Be smart, treat the customer fairly and things go well. Screw someone over, with shoddy practices and incompitance, and we all will hear about it and not want to order parts from these morons.
Education can be a bitch, but if we all learn to deal with the good guys, like Mark, and stay away from the Bozos, all that will be left in the end are honest, reputable businesses. Then we all win. Buy a mast from Mark and get sailing again!<br><br>Michael Rossney

SERGEY FAILED TO TELL THE WHOLE TRUTH AS I THOUGHT HE WOULD DO. HE FAILED TO TELL THAT HE WAS NOT THERE WHEN THE MAST ARRIVED AS HE WAS SUPPOSE TO BE. SO SOMEONE ELSE SIGNED FOR IT WITHOUT INSPECTING IT. IF THEY WOULD HAVE LOOKED AT THE MAST FIRST THIS WOULD NOT BE TAKING PLACE. THE MAST WOULD HAVE COME BACK TO ME AND I WOULD HAVE TAKEN CARE OF IT. I AM PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST HONEST GUYS YOU WILL MEET IN THE BOAT BUISNESS, BUT I CANT TAKE A LOSS ON SOMEONE ELSES
<br> MISTAKE. THANKS, DOUG KLEM<br><br>

i have had the same experiances as sergey. (though not with you). the fact is that if you inspect the mast and it is screwed up, do not accept it. some time this week i am taking delivery of 5 sections from a reputable builder. if they are dented or scratched or otherwise dammaged when i look at them, they are not comming off the truck and into my shop. period.<br><br>

Just wondered about these a little and found 2 good definition sites:<br><br>http://www.public.iastate.edu/~purchasing/bi_terms.htm<br><br>and <br><br>http://www.univco.cornell.edu/purchasing/PurManual/303A.html<br><br>Alan Thompson<br>I20 - San Diego<br><br>

Doug,
<br>
<br>I sympathize with both sides of this situation. Serge said he would be there to inspect the shipment and he was not. Unfortunately, this is a common occorence. I've tried my darndest to be there to receive big shipments, but the reality is, that being there to receive shipment is often difficult, at best.
<br>
<br>I've had main and jib sails shipped to me, and as for not being damaged in shipment, I had to hope for the best. Most people work for a living, and can't be receiving 30 foot shipments at work. So, naturally, this has to be shipped to their home. However, I always insisted on the shipper insuring the shipment for full replacement value. I can't imagine shipping a mast that is worth $1K or more without insuring it. That's just not prudent. Perhaps you did do this, and I have just misunderstood. I suppose to make an insurance claim, you have to be there?
<br>
<br>Also, I find myself wondering who the person was who signed for shipment? Were they authorized to do so on Serge's behalf? If yes, than I'd say Serge also has a beef with that person. If no, than Serge certainly has a beef with the shipper for getting a signature from an unauthorized person.
<br>
<br>In addition, I would tend to think that Mark Michaelson's packing suggestions were good ones. It sounds like the mast may have been inadequately protected for a long shipment. A box would have been worth the money, I'm afraid.
<br>
<br>I'd also like to reiterate what Mark closed his post with:
<br>
<br>"It doesn't happen often but when we do have a claim on a mast we either:
<br> A) prevail on insurance or
<br> B) Find a way to work with the freight company to get another mast to the
<br> customer at NO EXTRA charge. Yes, we do lose money sometimes. That's
<br> business."
<br>
<br>I also happen to be in business for myself, and I know I could not afford to have this kind of publicity out there about me. I sincerely hope you and Serge can work this out in a way that is satisfactory for both of you.
<br>
<br>I like many here often need parts, and I don't want to even have to bat an eye if you have the part I need.
<br>
<br>Fair winds,
<br>
<br>Tim Johnson<br><br>Hobie 20 #541
<br>Bald Eagle Yacht Club, Fleet 52
<br>White Bear Lake, MN

As far as inspection and signature, I told Doug right away that the mast must be shipped to my club with instruction to the trucking company to call me an hour in advance of arrival so that I can come and inspect and sign. Doug did not do it. I called the company myself when the mast was in transit and left two messages with their dispatchers. Even after that they called me because their truck was already two blocks from the club and they needed directions. I told them I needed 30 minutes at least to get there. They still went on to drop the mast off, and got someone at the club to sign for it (without my authorization).
<br>
<br>To make things fair, I am posting Doug's two emails that I received in response to my posting:
<br>
<br>email 1:
<br>
<br>SERGEY , I HAVE CONTACTED MY LAWYER AND WILL BE PURSUING A SLANDER SUIT
<br>AGAINST YOU.
<br>
<br>THANK YOU,
<br>DOUGLAS KLEM 850-941-8371
<br>
<br>email 2:
<br>
<br>FOR WHAT YOU TOLD IS NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH. WHERE IS THE PART THAT AN
<br>UNAUTHORIZED SIGNER TOOK POSSESION OF THE MAST WITHOUT INSPECTING IT ? WHERE
<br>IS THE PART WHERE THE TRUCKING COMPANY NEVER CONTACTED YOU. WHERE IS THE PART
<br>THAT IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO PERSUE THE TRUCKING COMPANY ? YOU ONLY
<br>PRINTED WHAT WOULD BENIFIT YOU AS I THOUGHT YOU WOULD. THIS WILL PASS FOR ME
<br>BUT FOR YOU THE PROBLEM HAS JUST GOTTEN BIGGER ! SEE YOU IN
<br>COURT. HOPE YOU CAN AFFORD THE TIME TO COME TO FLORIDA !
<br>
<br>THANK YOU,
<br>DOUGLAS KLEM 850-941-8371<br><br>

It's time to go after the trucking company, I'd say.
<br>
<br>You guys have spent so much time and energy getting mad at each other, that you've lost sight of who the real problem is, the trucking company.
<br>
<br>As for threats of lawsuits, that's as dumb as it gets, Doug. Didn't you think that Serge wouldn't eventually tell us that, too? How much trouble you could have saved yourself by helping Serge go after the trucking company. I'm sure you're correct that it's Serge's responsibility to go after the trucking company, but where does your responsibility end in satisfying a customer? Is a lawsuit really going to accomplish anything other than making you feel better? The fact is, it probably won't do that either.
<br>
<br>If you think Serge is getting down and dirty by publicly slandering you, just think for a minute of how good you could look by taking the high road in this situation for all the world to see. Although we must remember that character is not revealed by what we do publicly, but rather by what we do privately. If the unsatisfactory service of this sale had been handled privately, you both would have been a whole lot better off.
<br>
<br>I had an instance where I purchased something from someone in this community where the quality of the part they sent me was terrible. We handled it privately, I got my money back, the guy is still in business, and I wouldn't hesitate to business with him again.
<br>
<br>I hope you guys settle this in a professional way, and by professional, I don't mean with lawyers! If the trucking company got an unauthorized signature, then STOP FIGHTING EACH OTHER, PUT YOUR EFFORTS ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE FENCE, AND GO AFTER THE STUPID TRUCKING COMPANY!!! Can I make it any more clear???
<br>
<br>And Doug, in the future, pack your shipments better, and DON'T USE THAT TRUCKING COMPANY AGAIN UNLESS THEY REPAIR THIS SITUATION!
<br>
<br>Good luck to you both,
<br>
<br>Tim Johnson
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>Hobie 20 #541
<br>Bald Eagle Yacht Club, Fleet 52
<br>White Bear Lake, MN

What the heck, I'll put my nose in where it doesn't belong:
<br>
<br>To Serge L.: It was totally unacceptable to vent your critique of Doug on this forum, as far as I am concerned. The only proper forum for your beef with Doug is a court of law - whereby our Government would try to protect the rights of both parties. Personally, none of your posts have convinced me in the least as to how Doug is responsible for any of the problems that you ascribe to him. It seems to me that if the trucking company accepted the mast in whatever condition it was packed, that they have the responsibility to make sure it arrives at its destination in the same shape it left in. By your later admission, the trucking company did not follow your instructions that you alone should sign for the freight (which they don't even need to be instructed to do - only the authorized receiver can sign for freight), so the only obvious person at fault is the trucking company. Your entire argument seems to be based on the notion that "the customer is always right" mentality. Generally it is in a company's best interest to have such a policy, particularly if they are a large concern where the positive commerce derived from such a policy outweighs the number of times that such a policy will be used against them by people of questionable moral intent. A smaller business doesn't have the luxury of such a policy and must be guided by who is in fact "right" in the situation. What the heck, I think you are wrong in "fact", which is crucial to a slander lawsuit defense.
<br>
<br>To Doug: I suggest you cut a deal with Serge and let him off the hook on this slander thing - a short apology by Serge indicating that he went a little far there by posting his beef on the forum perhaps. I'd see if you could include Rick White in the deal if you could get him to pull this whole thread off the board to keep the thing from re-proliferating. I looked at most of Serge's other posts plus went to his web-page and he sure seems like a decent guy otherwise to me who got a little upset and went too far with this whole forum posting thing. I think you have a case, but I'm not sure how you can prove actual damages - other than punitive, but perhaps you could. I don't blame you for being pissed, but maybe there is still a high road you can take here.
<br>
<br>And now that I've settle that...let me take aim back at Wouter's anti-American sentiment...JUST KIDDING WOUTER...relax.
<br>
<br>ScaredyCat<br><br>

Wouter<br><br>