Downwind defense...

OK, so at Worlds last week, there were a lot of boats... biggest starts I've been in since the old 16 days. Something happened to us twice that I think there should have been a way to avoid or defend against, but I'm at a loss.

Cruising downwind, 'chute up, lightish (8-10 knots?), we've made our last gybe onto starboard for the finish line, but we're still about 1/4-mile out or so. We'd immediately gybed at A to get back down into the favored corner, but didn't bang it - we took a hitch over, then got deeper onto a layline. There was another pack of folks that had worked the other side and were setting up to come into the finish on port or close to it.

From right down the middle of the course, two different races we had someone gybe on us - they were all alone, approached very close on port, gybed in our air, and walked away. Both times they couldn't have crossed us, so technically we were ahead of them. They both got really close, but made good, legal gybes into a starboard windward position.

I felt violated. How do you at least get dinner and drinks out of the deal? Suggestions?

As they get close either heat up to force them to go behind you or gybe, this gives you speed to do what you want for a short period of time. If they do gybe (depending how close) you can get deep to get some seperation or go high and push your nose in front of them then go back to your normal course.

Think of the wind shadow, it is not that big and is usually further behind you than you think,

Other trick is to gybe away, works well if you are not on the lay.

Problem with "heating up" is that you MUST give the other boat room and oppertunity to avoid you. "weaving" down the course may be considered "hunting" and you could get binned for it. Other option could be to spot this early (+200m away) and heat up then and make it clear you are "going for speed" then they would then have to either gybe ealier than they wanted to, or go Higher still to go behind, or gybe ealier (and so you can then gybe away). Also, are they wiring ?, if not then they can go higher, are they heavier than you (same thing), they can drive higher.

Being on Port downwind is NOT the nightmare place to be as you have a few options (as long as you are not close to the turning mark).

Were you using a gate or a single mark ?

In both these cases we were headed for a smallish finish line (maybe 20 meters?) and were working up a little to finish at the pin with speed. We had gates at the bottom all week with plenty of separation, so we didn't have it happen except at the finish.

I agree that we were somewhat limited in our course as the boats converge - the new rules have continued to tighten with respect to what a starboard boat can do with a port boat approaching. At some magic threshold point, the ROW boat is locked in - I will certainly be looking for earlier opportunities to avoid getting stepped on in this manner, which is the most obvious defense as you suggest.

Few were on the wire downwind at this point in the regatta - things had laid down to the normal Santa Barbara conditions and we'd switched gears. We picked up eight or nine boats one race and four the next by gearing down and driving deeper while others heated up and dove for the corners. We were on a great line for the finish in both cases, but in a big fleet, maybe it doesn't pay to set up from so far out - heating up to defend would have made for a deeper, slower entry into the finish area with traffic and disturbed air.

Sounds like looking for the converging port boat sooner and heating up to force their gybe sooner are two tips to remember.

Thanks!

John,

Rule 1: Don't bang corners.
Rule 2: Sail the inside laylines, if accessible.
Rule 3: Keep your lanes clear.
Rule 3A: Be the lead boat!!

Sometimes in very large fleets this can't be avoided. By slightly heating up, you might force the other boat into gybing earlier than intended, then sail your deeper, clear course. When you are catching boats from behind, the other crew will view you as a threat and stomp on you at every opportunity. See my point about being ahead?

Cheers!

Bob

This is a very interesting point. Something similay came up at our club a while back and caused a vast amount of discussion. We have "unofficial" access to an old club member who is an international judge and his "word of mouth" comments were that "depending on the class (and thus closing speeds) and the wind conditions, we (the IJ) would consider a course "locked in" in "strong winds", in something like the 49er at around 250 - 400 mtrs. Now think about that, at 30kph (18.75 mph) that is between 30 to 48 seconds !

The multihull judges I know carry around charts and tables that help them pin down exactly what the closure is between converging boats. They want to be able to come reasonably close to how much time each skipper and crew had to make and execute decisions. I never heard of them lean toward 30 to 48 seconds, but I HAVE heard something on the order of five to seven seconds in moderate air, and less than five in heavy air (in one case, less than two). That's quick! Wound up on the winning side of a port-starboard once during the Alter Cup after a guy who usually sails jib and main boats gybed onto starboard too close, forcing us to flip to avoid. The timing, wind speed and speed of the boats was what the jury spent the most time working out in the hearing. The other guy honestly thought we'd have time to avoid, but spinnakers are a whole different animal...

Anyway - thanks for the replies. More food for thought.

ps - I'm in Long Beach for Alter Cup. Wind looks great, sunshine, and the boats look perfect. All we need now is a fleet! Starts Wednesday. I'm going out for some SoCal tacos...

But in moderate wind in 7 seconds you would not be able to avoid a boat coming down on you with the kite up (on stbd) if you were beating upwind on port - just not possible bear off to avoid the track they are taking, or Tack and call then up (Don't know many cats that can complete a tack in 7 seconds).

I did not explain my example properly. The case I was taling about was where there was a Inter 18 putting kite up (so 'waving a little' and would then be heading up to set the kite and then bearing off again when it filled - Wind was about F4) and a Dart 15 on the port lay-line. The were essentially "head to head" and the question was from the Dart 15 saying "do I have to anticipate what track the I18 will be taking ?" and the answer was no (this is where the 30+ seconds came from) you only have to react. All our (general) comments were, just avoid the port lay-line.

The upshot of the discussions were that :

A, Avoid the Port layline.
B, A kite boat (or any other) cannot just bear off around the mark, stear their proper course to hoist the kite and then head up (again onto proper course) to fill the kite and then bear off (again on proper course) as the kite fills without reference to other boats around and without giving "room and oppertunity"
C, always get the race officer to add a spacer at the windward mark to (hopefully) reduce the chances of this happening.

Here is my take on your situation.

If it's blowing 10-12 then you are both sitting on the windward hull and flying it. If a port tack boat is comming on a collision course with you and jibes there is no way that they are going to get through the jibe and on your air if you don't make a mistake. My thought is if they are truely on a collision course with you and jibe then to simply heat it up after they jibe to come up to their line and stay in front. If it is not possible to stay in front it's my opinion that they could have crossed you clear ahead and therefore were in front of you anyway.

Sounds to me like having to hit a little finish line with spinnaker boats in a large fleet is a serious mistake by a race committee. The race committee should set a larger line for a spinnaker fleet because of the special rules when comming to a finish line mark with port tack boats on a downwind finish. If you have a small line it can result in major boat damage.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

I'm pretty inexperienced - the Tiger Worlds was my first major 'round the cans' regatta. I found the finish line rather narrow and in the middlle/back of the pack there were some close calls when finishing. We were fouled by port tack boats several times when coming in to finish on the starboard lay line.

We also were victim to the manouver John described at the beginning of this thread - calling starboard on a port tack boat while both flying the spin. Port tack boat gybes and steals your wind - legal but I also felt 'violated' and wished I had better tactics to counter this.

Chris.