8 different polls exploring different aspects

I think it's more complicated, everything is tradeoffs. I might want more one-design than I am getting, but I might still prefer some kind of mix. Even if I prefer one-design I might prefer a larger Portsmouth fleet to a smaller one-design fleet. I might be brand loyal and prefer a small er brand fleet to a larger multi-brand fleet. I might prefer to go to more regattas and hence be willing to attend smaller regattas to get more sailing time. Others prefer either high tech boats, simple boats, or the largest fleet regardless of the nature of the boat.

Here are 8 Questions that help us begin to shed more light. Please consider each poll seperately, in a vacuum, like it will be the whole experience by itself.

For each of these questions pretend that the choice you make will be a choice of your entire sailing experience this season. Pretend that the choice you make each time could not be augmented by other regattas.

I am surprised at the strong showing for people want to go to 10 10 boat regattas in question 2. Did folks like 10 regattas or 10 boats in their fleet? hmmm. If we assume a 10 regatta season how many boats do you want in your fleet?

Jamie, I haven't had to make so many decisions in all of the last 10 years!

Anyway, in question No. 9, you did not specify whether the "fleet" is one-design/formula or Portsmouth or a mixed fleet including both. In question No. 2, I assumed you were talking about one-design fleets. Is that correct? And the same for question No. 9?

Hi Mary,

the answer is no. 2 and now 9 are/were just asking about fleet size and regatta frequency.

One of the real questions I have asked my friends, because I see it as a real choice, is wouldn't you rather sail in a 20 boat handicap fleet, especially if the boats are close in performance, than a 10 boat one-design fleet. But that was based on my personal assumption that the more boats the better. And of course it also mixes many values together. Surprise surprise, more people than I would have expected prefer a small fleet.

Most of these questions are designed, not real thoroughly mine you, but at least intended to compare 2 values to each other. Sometimes the same question is only slightly altered to present the same opportunity to a Performance fan and a Hobie fan.

Now look at question 4. In my mind, a surprisingly large number of people prefer the high tech high performance boat to sailing in a larger fleet. At least that is how I read it.

The responses to questions 6 & 7 reveal far less brand bigots than I expected. I think they would have been picking the first answer on both of those questions.

Also, I think the poll is indicating that head to head racing is more important than one-design racing, hence formula would seem to be a logical place for many of these folks to go.

Keep in mind your results are skewed towards the readers of CatSailor.com and don't represent a real cross section of the sailing public, or even tha catamaran sailing public.
For example when you look at the results of question 4 you see that they are almost exactly the inverse of what people actually choose.


By the way it's called "class loyalty" not "brand bigotry" and its result is stronger classes and better racing.

Rhodysail, by "readers" of catsailor.com, I assume you are referring to the people who frequent the forums on catsailor.com.

The forum users seem to be more high-tech oriented and more into Portsmouth racing, whereas my magazine readers are a much more diverse group. There does not seem to be a whole lot of overlap between the two groups. I'll bet most of my magazine subscribers have never even seen the catsailor.com forum, and I'll bet most of the catsailor.com forum users do not subscribe to my magazine.

I haven't done a survey through Catamaran Sailor for about five years. It is definitely time to do another one, but I just haven't had time to put it together. I like to do surveys in the winter when people have a lot of time on their hands to think instead of sail.

Your comments are just as much slanted !




How do you know the results are skewed ! By the same reasoning they may well not be ! So what is the REAL crossection of the catamarans scene anyway ? Do YOU know ? If so how do you know ?

You seem to believe that catsailor.com readers are different from mainstream sailors or at least you suggest that but what is your proof of that ? Maybe it is your view that is skewed and not the catsailor demographics ? Can you disproof that ?

With equal value I can sya that you should keep in mind that YOUR perceptions are skewed. This statement is just as non-sensical as they other one.





And you've established "what people actually choose" on exactly what research ?

I think we have here a very strong case of some-one not accepting the results as they conflict with his BELIEVE of the same situation. This sort of thing is very fashionable lately.

Wouter

What Bob said is right - and backed up by statistics.

There are 418 members of catsailor.com who have more than 10 posts. There are more people on the Hobie 16 scoresheet in North American than that (547 to be precise). I'd wager the total population of small catamaran racers in North America to somthing on the order of 4-5 thousand.

There are only 53(!) members of catsailor.com that have more than 200 posts. The active members of catsailor.com are not representative of a cross section of the population of catamaran racers in North America.

There have been, at most, 33 responses to any of these questions. This isn't a statistically significant sample to make an inference about a population.

Personally, I noticed that these forums were completely dead on the weekend of the Spring Fever Regatta. The vast majority of the "regulars" on this forum (yourself and a few others excluded), are from the south-east United States - and were at Spring Fever.

What Bob said is right - and backed up by statistics.




And what does that say exactly ? That poster with less than 10 posts can't vote, won't vote or that the other 418 poster all sail exotic boats only ?

In this statement alone you make many assumptions that you can not support.



How are these two things related, exactly ? Are you suggesting that hardly any H16 sailors attend this forum while all the exotic sailors are here without exception ? That is another implicet assumption you can't proof.

How are we to tell that either 20 or 1 F18 sailors voted in this poll or that 1 or 20 H16 voted in this poll. You can't possible know which sailors voted what. And how do you know that the H16 sailors that voted didn't vote in favour op open-class racing ? What you ARE doing is looking at the result and thinking :"a h16 crew will never vote that way, therefor they must be unrepresented or the results must be wrong". However this is just silly reasoning, you don't have proof to the contrary only your own disbelieve that you are trying to square with the results. It can be just as much proof for the fact that your perception may be skewed.



So ?



And how exactly is that of inportance in this vote. Are compulsive posters more inclined to vote against one-design racing that non-frequent posters ? Or maybe the other way around ?

Are OD racers less inclined to post anything on catsailor.com than non OD sailors ?

And so on.

You bring an argument into the discussion here that is surrounded by implicet assumptions that have never been proven in themselfs.




You can deduce all that from simple things like :"There are only 53(!) members of catsailor.com that have more than 200 posts"


So how many posters of more then 200 posts must catsailor have to become representative. Or is there any particular significant reason why YOU choose the threshold of 200 ? Would 150 posters with 100 or more posts make the poll any more or any less representative ?

Your argumention is as firm as saying that I'm irritating Dutchman because my father had only 1 sister instead of 2 brothers and 3 sisters.

I can see you all knot in agreement to the last statement; but this is all voodoo arguments. They sound and look great but are nonsensical.





What a non-sense. The conclusion may well have large grey area's but any numbers of samples is enough to make an inference about a populations under the condition that MORE samples will definately make the inference more dependeable.

But what you are doing is typical for debates in modern societies. You equate the fact of reduced dependability/accuracy with the believe that the conclusion is WRONG. It is never wrong, only less accurate with less samples.

You can not possibly know what the outcome will be is all in USA (4000-5000 sailors) had voted in these polls. For all we know the result of 33 votes may just as well be spot on. There is no reason believe that the first 33 voters magically will always vote differently than the following 33- 5000 votes. They may do so but with equal probability they may not.



So ? Are cat sailors form the south-east USA more inclined to vote against OD racing than in favour. Does it have something to do with the drinking water there ? What is it exactly that you ASSUME about these sailors that makes you believe that the conducted poll is not representative ?


Wouter

In my terms:

Class loyalty is a Hobie 16 wanting to support the Hobie 16 Class.

Class loyalty is a Nacra 6.0NA wanting to support the Nacra 6.0NA class.

Brand bigotry is a Hobie 16 sailor preferring Hobie 20s racing at their regatta to Nacra F18s.

Brand bigotry is a Nacra F18 sailor preferring an Inter 20 to a Hobie Tiger.

I consider the HCA to be a manufacturer multi-class association, and not a class association (same with INCA).

You're too easy to provoke, Wouter - it's almost no fun.

You also don't know the difference bewteen an assumption and an inference:

Assumption: Something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof.

Inference: The act or process of deriving logical conclusions from premises known or assumed to be true.

I made no assumptions in my statements, other than a healthy majority of catsailor.com regulars are in the SE United States.

The inference is that the more someone posts on catsailor.com, the more likely they are to vote on this. The numbers quoted are merely reference points in relation to the population of catamaran sailors who care enough to vote on this.

Most significance tests assume you have a truly random sample. If your sample is not truly random, a significance test may overstate the accuracy of the results, because it only considers random error. The test cannot consider biases resulting from non-random error (for example a badly selected sample).

That's my second point.



No, you're an irritating Dutchman because you don't know [censored] about statistics and are too proud/arrogant/egotistical to admit it.

Oh, and by the way - I haven't looked at the results, because frankly - I don't care. I've got more than enough events to go to. Starting this weekend, I'll be competing in an event nearly every weekend until October. And I'd rather be on the water than looking at a computer screen, making a point in an argument that in the grand scheme of things, doesn't mean squat.

In YOUR terms you can call it whatever you want but it doesn't make it reality.

Bump

I don't understand the poll, I don't understand the reason for the poll and I don't give any credence to any "results" of such a poll.
Just what is the point?? It seems to be such a meaningless exercise in futility.

How does the Alter Cup Committee define class?
Somehow one class, as you define them, got two spots while others got none.

One of my thoughts have been that all of the discussion of One-Design vs Portsmouth really has several other discussions buried in it. Here’s how I analyze the 9 polls.

Poll 8 – A 77% majority prefers all Hobie 16s together rather than a separate B and C fleet. Is the 23% the B & C fleeters? Or is it A fleeters that don’t want the B & C fleeters in their way? Is the majority position in the best interest of the sport?

Poll 6 & Poll 7 – It’s more important to race head-to-head on similar boats (60%) than it is to race one-design or one-manufacturer. Over 25% of the folks would opt to do both one-design and head-to-head at the regatta by running a single start and scoring it both ways. Less than 10% find brand (Nacra vs Hobie) more important than head-to-head racing. The percentages came out the same whether it was Hobie Fleets or Nacra fleets making up your one-manufacturer regatta.

Poll 5 – 90% prefer racing head-to-head over one-design if they believe the boats are adequately similar and it doubles the fleet size from 10 to 20.

Poll 4 – The respondents prefer higher tech cats over larger one-design fleets. (So do we all want one-design, but all want everyone else to switch to the boat we’re on?)

Poll 3 – The respondents prefer smaller one-design regattas to larger Portsmouth regattas

Poll 2 – Hmm, 5 to 10 regattas with 10 to 20 boats in the regatta (or start). I’m surprised that less than 10% would want 2 50 boat regattas. But then again only 2 regattas would be a bummer. No good tradeoffs here.

Poll 1 – If you have 10 regattas how would you like them? No majority, but the biggest block is one-design, followed by I don’t care lets just race, followed by I like variety, with almost nobody preferring Portsmouth only. I am in the variety camp so again I was surprised by the poll. (Don’t we all tend to not understand why everybody doesn’t think like us?)

Poll 9 – After looking at the results of Poll 3 & 2 I realized that one of my base assumptions (personal preferences) wrong (not shared by the majority of respondents). That assumption was that bigger is better. If you look at the results of Poll 9 it makes a nice bar graph. About 2/3’s of respondents prefer some type of small to medium regatta centered around 25 or so in a regatta or fleet. Only about 1/3 prefer the biggest fleet they can get.

Conclusions. (based on the poll responses, not necessarily on the larger non-responding sailing public)

1. Head-to-head racing is what’s important. It more important than brand or one-design.
2. Not everybody is looking for a really big regatta. Most people have a much smaller “ideal” size.
3. High tech will draw some of our people, either splitting up one-design classes or causing one-design class migration.
4. Brand bigotry or manufacturer loyalty is not as big an issue as many would make it. It’s less important than head-to-head, one-design, or Portsmouth.

Potential Actions:
1. Look creatively for more ways to create level (head-to-head) racing experiences.
2. Be happier with 25 boat regattas. Not everybody wants 50 and 75 boat regattas.

Bob, I can’t speak for the committee, I can only speak for myself. However, based on my participation as a member of the committee I would guess that the Alter Cup Committee would say that it, in general, defines classes as any US Sailing recognized class. (The committee is after all a committee of US Sailing).

First a little on classes in general:

The Hobie 16 Class Association, the Hobie 17 Class Association, the Hobie 20 Class Association, and the Hobie Tiger Class Association are currently all paid up US Sailing recognized one-design classes.

The International Nacra Class Association and the Inter 20 Class Association are listed as one-design class associations that have not paid their dues. There also is a “Hobie” or “Intl Hobie Class Association” that is listed as a one-design class association that has not paid it’s dues. The North America Formula 18 Class is also listed as a class which has not paid it’s dues

If you browse around the US Sailing website you can find a lot of good information.


Now a little on the Alter Cup

The Alter Cup Conditions clearly outline how competitors are selected for the event. Very few of the competitors are selected based on class criteria. The first 10 come from the area qualifiers, Portsmouth events. The HCA chair selects 2 representatives from the HCA. Two representatives from classes manufactured by Performance Catamaran are selected by Performance Catamaran. The Alter Cup Committee selects a class (doesn’t specify one-design, formula, etc..) The Olympic multihull class sends a rep.

So out of 20 teams I count 6 that are selected by class.

Now just to make sure I directly address your last point (not a question right?). You are correct in your statement assuming that you are referring to the fact that Performance selected the 1st and 3rd place finishers from the Nacra 20 class to be it’s representatives. Cool huh!

Okay, Jamie, so do I have this right?

Two of the sailors at the Alter Cup are from the same class, Nacra 20, even though it is supposed to be only one sailor representing each class as its national champion (or runnerup).

And the Nacra 20 class is not even listed in the directory of US Sailing, much less having paid dues. And even if we still think of it as the Inter 20 class, which IS listed in the directory, that class has not paid its dues, either.

And, meanwhile, two other classes that have faithfully paid their dues to US Sailing and who do hold national championships every year, are not invited to the Alter Cup. (That would be the Shark and the Wave.)

The Isotope Class, unfortunately, has not paid its dues and, even though it holds a national championship every year, is not represented at the Alter Cup.

I guess you have to be in the "In" crowd to go to the Alter Cup.

Hey Mary did you our any of those other national champs send in a petition with there sailing resume that wanted to go to the Alter Cup. The Alter Cup does not come to you unless you won an area regatta. It cost a lot to go and not every one wants to do the regatta or can because of time off work.

I think John has done a great job keeping this going at a top level. He has worked hard on this for many years to give us what we asked for. I think John is steping down after 2006 so the seat is open.

No Mary you are a little short on your counts. Lots of sailors are from the same classes.

3 of the sailors are from the Nacra 20 class
3 are from the Hobie 16 class
3 of the sailors might be from the Formula 18 class (it depends on how you want to count them.)
2 of the sailors are from the Hobie Tiger class
2 of the sailors are from the Nacra I17R class
2 of the sailors are from the A class




It is not SUPPOSED "to be only one sailor representing each class as its national champion (or runnerup). It is supposed to be what is in the Alter Cup Conditions. I did like the original format of just the 10 area champions but the present format does seem to be more successful.

The two sailors I thought Bob was referring two were not selected as members of the Nacra 20 class, they are two representatives selected from classes manufactured by Performance Catamarans.




The Alter cup is not predominantly a class oriented event. It is mostly an area champion oriented event. Anyone on a Shark, Wave, or Isotope can get into the event either by qualifying at their Area Qualifier or by petition. Additionally the Isotope class, the Wave class, and the Shark class are all candidates every year for the rotating class. (I think I might like the idea of making sure that the rotating class is a recognized, dues paying, US Sailing class if it’s not done already)




I personally don’t think there’s an “In” crowd at the Alter Cup. I think having the event on Hobie 16s last year was a great thing. I think that the event should be held on a very wide variety of boats attracting the widest possible interest. Use hi-tech boats and low-tech boats. Use double-handed and single-handed boats. I would love to see the event on 4.3s or Waves. (but I think I might be in the minority there…)



John Camera, Area A/B – Nacra 20
Nigel Pitt, Performance – Nacra 20
John Casey, Performance – Nacra 20
Jake Kohl, Area D North – Nacra F18
John Tomko, Area F – Hobie Tiger as F18
Greg Thomas, Area J - Hobie Tiger
Mike Montague, Defending – Hobie 16
Amando Noriega, Hobie – Hobie 16
Pat Porter, Area G – Hobie 16
Mathew Keenan, Area C – Nacra I17R
Bill Gillespie, Area E – Nacra I17R
Ken Marshack, Area H – A cat
Pete Melvin, Rotating Class – A cat
Jennifer Lindsay, Area D South – Taipan F16
George Pedrick, Hobie – Hobie 20
Brian Karr, Petition – N/A
Alex Shafer, Petition – N/A
Stan Schreyer, Petition – N/A
TJ Tullo, Youth - ??

Dave, I'm not a national champion -- just a lowly magazine publisher.

Based upon what Jamie said, it sounds like your class has to be a paid-up member of US Sailing in order to have your national champion participate in the Alter Cup.

If that is the case, seems like they would go down through the US Sailing directory and pick out the classes that are paid up and send them notices that their National Champion is eligible to participate in the Alter Cup.

If those classes decide they don't want to participate, THEN you go back to including more people from the classes that DO want to participate (and are paid up members of US Sailing, of course).

And then, of course, you get the debate about which of those paid-up classes should get two people instead of only one.

Jamie's reply got in there before mine, but I'm leaving mine anyway.

Right now it seems like the purpose of the Alter Cup is to include as many of the country's top sailors as possible, no matter how they have to interpret the rules to make that happen.

If that is the goal, just say so.

So your class does NOT have to be a member of US Sailing?

Did or did not the Alter Cup Committee specifically ask the Hobie Class and Performance Catamarans to designate sailors for the Alter Cup?

Yes, the Alter cup did specifically ask the HCA and Performance to designate sailors. That is how 4 of the teams were in fact selected.

Okay, so they asked the Hobie Class Association and the Nacra Class Association to designate people for the Alter Cup even though neither of those class associations is a paid-up member of US Sailing.

Did the Alter Cup Committee ask the class associations that ARE paid-up members of US Sailing?

Hey Mary, in the case of the Hobie Class Association and the Hobie Classes it is somewhat confusing. The Hobie 16 Class Association, the Hobie 17 Class Association, the Hobie 20 Class Association, and the Hobie Tiger Class Association are ALL paid up US Sailing classes. I assume that the HCA is all of those, and maybe more, and would speak for all of them. It's all part of the situation with a manufacturer-based multi-class one-design class association.

As to why none of the Performance classes are paid up, I can't say.

The Alter Cup Committee asked class associations. I don't know if paid up was one of "their" considerations in asking a rotating or Olympic class. I know that it wasn't something I previously thought to ask about myself. I also believe that it wasn't a part of asking Hobie or Performance. That said I think it's a good idea. Anbd I think that this is how we improve the Alter Cup, by talking about it and taking good ideas back to the committee.

Ever since the Alter Cup changed to the "new" format, the objective has been quite clear -- and it has also been clear that the end justifies the means.

I have read through all these posts and I can’t figure out how the Performance class gets to send two boats to the Alter Cup when they have not paid their dues. What's up with that? What a bunch of freeloaders. From the list on the US Sailing site it looks like there are plenty of classes that have joined US Sailing. Why not give those two spots to the A class? There are probably more A cats racing in the US than Inter 20s anyway.

I know that Nigel and JC sent in a petition to race and they were accepted. Did any A class sailors send in a petition? It is not all about who won what class. All the sailors in the Alter Cup have to be paid up members of US Sailing. Performance did not send or pay for any national champs to go that I know of. Nigel could have gone as area D-N for getting 2nd place since first place could not go. It ended up that Jake and Chris ended up going for getting a 3rd in area D-N.

In addition to the winners of the 10 Area Championships, the Hobie Class Association is asked to designate two representatives, Performance Catamarans is asked to designate two representatives, and another class chosen by the Alter Cup Committee is asked to send a representative. Plus, the Tornado Class is asked to send a representative.

One slot is taken by the past Alter Cup Champion. And three slots are available by petition from individual sailors.

Sometimes it is hard to understand who got there by what route, but it is all explained on the entry list at the US Sailing website, http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/usmhc/alter05/entries2005.htm

Dave
What does this have to do with petition spots? Acording to the list on the website it looks like Nigel and Dave got the nacra spots not the petition spots.
Two spots to a 17 boat event in a class that does not even pay its dues. That just does not sound right.

Is the Performance class even a real class run by the sailors or is it just the builder?
Who ever they are PAY YOUR DUES.

Pps

I think that if you win a national championship you can send in a petition that you want to attend and you may get to attend by either a championship or petition. You just have to show interest in going. The best way would be to win a qualifier on your choice of boat. Not all sailors want to go unless it is in your town. The cost of time off work, airfare,hotel, food, entry fee can add up to a lot of money.

Hopefully John will post on here soon and answer all your questions.

I think the Alter Cup is really doing it right. They are putting the best sailors in the country up against eachother on one-design cats. I've been to the Alter Cup 3 times and every event has been top notch. They haven't been afraid to change to make the event better through the years. This event has been the shining star in cat sailing for years. I only hope that it can continue at such a high level.

The Alter Cup has been able to attract the best cat sailors in the country for the past several years. I think that speaks volumes for the event. As an Area Represenative my job is getting easier as more clubs vie for the priviledge of holding a qualifing event.

One of the confusing points that has been brought up on this board is the fact that some sailors qualify in multiple events. Most of the sailors sail different boats throughout the year so it's hard to pin down how the sailor might have qualified.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

[quote
One of the confusing points that has been brought up on this board is the fact that some sailors qualify in multiple events. Most of the sailors sail different boats throughout the year so it's hard to pin down how the sailor might have qualified.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com [/quote]

It's not confusing at all. Mary posted the link that lists how each person qualified.

Okay y'all.

Since this has now diverged into an assault on the AC rankings, let's go back to the original roots of the Cup. The Ten-Twelve US Sailing area champions are allowed to race, period. Keeps it simple and not a petition/manufacturers race. If you want a "Champions" race, then have it before or after the AC. RW has lobbied this for years because he had the vision to see what was happening. Since the 1995 debacle with Hobie 20s, IMHO, the AC has not meant what it once was to me. This is one of the reasons why I did not particpate this year and in years past. And with this crazy format, won't particpate in the future. In short, this ship is "off course".

Again, IMHO,

Bob

Hmm. From the title of this thread, I would have never suspected I needed to take a look at it after Jamie's original polls.

Alter Cup is for the express purpose of selecting a US Multihull Champion. Everyone who participates in the ladder events and the Championship must be current USSA members. Individual classes are not required to be member organizations specifically because they are not conducting ladder events, though the teams they send must join before registering for the Championship. Classes get other benefits through membership, and other championships (such as Championship of Champions) require class membership before accepting petitions.

The class representatives (Hobie, Performance, Tornado and one rotating class) have sole discretion in selecting their representatives. They are encouraged, but not required, to choose the champions from their largest classes in the most recent national-level events. In every case, the class representatives indicated they had contacted multiple candidates and were sending the best that were available. The folks they selected were acceptable to the Committee this year, though they haven’t always been in the past. In those cases, the class representatives were asked to try again. The same is true of the Areas - the Area Rep is responsible for contacting their winner, and if he can't go, they are allowed to go down to third place. It used to be second, but we changed it because many times people are unable or unwilling to come.

The current format (20 teams) has been around for a while and is working well. The Championship is meaningful in that, whoever has won, it has been clear that they are skillful competitors and have often proven themselves outside of a single class. In any case, majority rules - if you want to see a change, raise your hand when you show up. I did.

The current rotation, while it may seem "crazy" to some, is not new and is used, in one form or another, for other events that have provided boats. After day one, it was enthusiastically embraced by everyone I spoke with about it at the event. It has long been the Committee's feeling that the matrix we used for so long was flawed, and had, in some cases, resulted in an unfair Championship. People were leaving at the end feeling a little dissatisfied. That sucked. This, what we have now, is immeasurably better, and will continue to be refined before next year's event. I would encourage anyone who doesn’t understand it to talk to someone who was at the event – it is difficult to explain clearly, but easy to understand once in use. It took a couple of tries on my part to understand what it was all about. It is a lot more work for the volunteers on the beach, but serves the fleet much better than the matrix did.

Anyone who feels that the Alter Cup is "off course" is welcome to take the tiller, but you'd better be able to listen to what the competitors are saying over your ego. As chairman, I have sometimes swallowed my personal feelings in order to serve the job. The pay sucks, sailors can be bitchy, my friends get angry with me over decisions that must be made, red-faced competitors are up my butt on the beach when they think the PRO should have abandoned a race, and I don't always make it to the parties when I'm dealing with admin details, broken boats or scoring problems.

Why would anyone do the job? ‘Cause I think that the goal is worthy and honorable. I embrace the feeling of tradition attached to that hunk of metal and wood. My hands shook when I was soldering a piece of wire that had worked loose before the presentation on Sunday because it felt like the people whose names are on that trophy were looking over my shoulder to make sure I was taking care…

I’ll be trying my level best to somehow qualify for the 2007 event when I’m eligible to compete again because that is where the real action is. Greg is a great example of the kind of competitor we all should want to see at the event – ask him and he’ll tell you he’s been trying to get his name on that trophy for a long time. And he’s in good company.

Everyone here is entitled to their opinion, but... I’ll leave the rest of that uncharitable thought unvoiced.

John, please voice it.

How can someone be entitled to an opinion, "but"...?

And, anyway, most of the posts on this thread were questions, not opinions. I think you answered most of the questions.

My personal opinion is that the "new" format of the Alter Cup has attracted a lot more interest in the event, but....

Ain't that the truth !


Wouter

Heartfelt THANK YOU for a job well done!!!

Picture from another Alter Cup that John sailed in and Jamie Diamond co-ordinated

Wasn't shopping for kudos, but thanks for the appreciation. I also wasn't being sarcastic or elitist - suggestions and critiques are welcome, as they should be in any representative organization. Drop me a pm or an e-mail. I'm also not kidding about the job being open next year. Volunteering as the chairman is the best way to get your opinion heard, but remember - it's still a regatta by committee. You have to convince ten other people that love the event and have been involved from the beginning that your way is better. Checks and balances, baby.

cheeks and balances?

John,
You are a role model, I salute you.

Eric