Texel , Anyone making a video of this for sale!

These photo's are reminiscent of when the "Omnipotent Wouter" shot his mouth off and foot,at the expense of the 2001 Worrell teams.The waves look half as high as they were in Jensen Beach that year.I do feel for most of the competitors as the anxiety of making oneself ready all year for the event turns into kaos at the shorebreak ."GAMEOVER".

I too was thinking that the waves didn't look that monstrous - but if you look at the frequency of the waves, it looks like they are coming pretty quick. A short frequency between waves can be just as devestating which will kill your forward momentum...still, it's not quite the Jensen beach disaster.

I bet the lighter boats had more difficulty getting through the surf.

I searched and searched and searched the photos online, and for the life of me, I couldn't identify ONE F16 punching out through the surf. A whole bunch of H16's and a P16, but I didn't see one F16 trying to play in that mess.

I think what made for more carnage was apparently that the wind was blowing directly onshore, forcing the boats to take the surf at an angle instead of being able to punch right through it. Are they allowed to bring a paddle for the texel? I'd almost use that to steer into the waves, then use the paddle to help bear off and accelerate again between sets.

We were one of the boats that did go out, and it indeed looks like the surf was smaller compared to the pictures from the worrell, however, the wind was 5bf straight onshore, and waves were coming in every couple of seconds, so there was no time at all to pick up any speed between being hit by the first wave and being put back on the beach by the next one (and breaking your rudders or mast).
Luckily our good old nacra 6.0 is not the lightest boat around and we were able to punch through with relatively few hits and managed to keep going, but we saw many lightweight f18, inter 18, tigers and so on being thrown over.
btw, the next day was even harder getting through, just slightly smaller surf, but no wind at all...

oh and for the speed interested among us:
round texel is about 60nm, new record time is 2.11hrs, that's an average of almost 27.7nm/hr! (that's fast! am I mistaking the distance?)

I'm sorry sander but the distance is +/-35NM, still was fast though. I estimate they averaged around 17kts.

Sander, did you go out sunday morning around 11:00? If so I saw you go out, it looked like the current was pushing you back ;-)

In short,

Halve the Worrell teams that year compounded on the bad conditions by doing stupid things while sailing through the surf.

A quarter of the crews at Texel can be seen to perform similar no-no's. The other quarter got through the surf okay and had the skills for it. The other halve was smart and knew when to throw in the towel. I was one of the guys who knew when to admit that conditions where above me and my crew, albeit 100 km to the south.

The worst sailor is not a beginner but the guy that doesn't know when to hold back.

Remarkable how easy it is to become omnipotent in the judgement of some.

Happy ?

Wouter

Still pondering that Wouter, not sure wether you just called Mitch and Herbie newbies or above themself

Yeah, what IS the right answer to that question ?

They tried twice and the first time they got knocked over, the second time they heard a really unfriendly noise and they decided to turn back. At least that is what the reports tell us.

Now you decide whether they were defeated by the surf or whether they balanced the boat+crew to the conditions and decided that prudence was the better side of valour.

Anybody calling Mitch and Herbert newbies is just plain stupid, nor do I think that I even hinted at such a thing. I also do not recall that anybody (including) myself called Mitch and Herbert above themselfs.

It is funny how easily rumours are started.

Say, did your wife recover okay from the beating you gave her, Rolf ?

With respect to F16's in the pictures. Well all the Hobie 17's, Hobie 18's, Hobie FX-ones, Hobie 20's, Hobie 14's and Hobie foxes (F20 versions) that we see in the pictures (NOT !) were blocking them from the view.

Wouter

Fair enough

I'm not the one thats comparing them to F18's and Inter20's (which, as I noticed, were out playing in the "stuff")



And I'm going to have to deal out some advice on this one. As someone had told me back in the day, "put up or shutup".

Go put on a clinic Wouter. Show us how its done. Teach some of those "stupid" Worrell sailors how to launch through Jensen waves.

I'm calling you out. I don't think you can.

Hey guys,

I really wanted to sail the Round Texel, but the conditions made me reconsider. It was not only the wind and surf conditions but also the amount of sailors trying to sail and not having any experience with this kind of surf.
Also there were a lot of sailors that just came to Texel on friday to only sail the RoT-race. A lot of them felt obliged to sail on saturday. I already had a fantastic week with sailing the Dutch Open, so there was no need for risking my boat and health.

An evading action due to an crashed cat also caused Mitch en Herbert their efforts on their Hobie Fox Extreme for this years RoT. I think they also went too late from the beach. They were not the only experienced sailors to crash in the surf.
The crash caused their mainsail-battens to break, after repairing them the went a second time through the surf, with success. On the sea the encountered serious problems with one of the carbon hulls.

Well, from 570 enlisted boats only 270 boats started the race. At the lighthouse-gate already 140 boars were DSQ-ed for missing the gate........

Must say this years RoT was memorable, especially the speed of the topteams on the Waddensea !

I am quite sure you noticed the smiley behind that question, so I must have hit a nerve
(It was a to obvious comment to let it pass Wouter, wasn't meaning to start any rumours tough!)

Beating my wife? I would not dare to, I want to live and sail some more before I have my kneecaps "eliminated" by the infamous baseball bat. But the correct answer to that question is always "no" (thats logical), unless of course you do beat your wife (in which case, it might still be no).
Besides, you should meet my wife sometime. We will have to see what we can arrange..


What would you say are the similarities and differences between the Fox and the Blade (altought the Blade is 16 and 18 foot). The bow is a dead giveaway, but how about the other parameters?

A last comment on the 'Super' Fox. If they where building a 20 foot all carbon (is that confirmed, what about beams and mast?) record breaker. Why did they not raise the crossbeams as well, to avoid slapping into wavetops?

So they don't have to make new molds.

And replying on the previous posts. It is silly to compare the Jensen-waves to the RoT-waves. So why make it an issue ?
Does a bigger wave make the event more interesting ? Does a bigger crash-rate tell us something about the actual value of an event ?

Don't think so.

I dont agree to that Maughan. If they spent all that money on carbon and a custom layup, it doesnt make sense to not spend one day extra at the workshop to raise the beams. Does it?

The Hobie Fox Extreme is still experimental (or should I say : was). Bigger mast is fully carbon. They didn't have time enough to do something with the beams : aluminium.
The boats weight fully equipped : 140 kilo........

Ehh sorry but I will have to set a few things straight here. With all due respect :





Man, I think there were about a 100 times more F18's and F20's at Texel than F16's. Probably 40 % of the Texel fleet is made up of these. Little wonder that they show up in the pictures and not the boats of which only a handful are entered.

Please explain to me how showing up in the pictures in THIS situation (or not) says anything about the comparison between these 3 classes.

I didn't see a Spitfire in the pics either, still it won the open class. The only M20 I saw in the pics was the one that lay upside down in the surf being beaten to pieces. Still a M20 was second in the open class. I saw alot of pics of broken (F18) boats or (F18) boat that were about to be broken. According to your reasoning this "proofs" something.

Surely you can't be serious about what you said above.





No your not, you are just using a common debating trick. It is impossible to know for the readers wether I have been instructing how to negociate the local surf overhere for years or not (I have). And Yes, I gave a full explanation why I called certain worrell sailor stupid back then. Together with high res photo's of crews doing these very stupid things. Don't ask me to "make like a broken record" and repeat myself over and over again. Be a nice fellow and look up the posts yourself, before mouthing off. And ohh I'll be happy to teach those sailors that we ARE talking about (= NOT all worrell sailors of that year) how to do a surf if they care to fly over to my place. Afterall how I can teach them in an area where such a surf is uncommon ?

You know what why don't you come over with your boat and I'll show you how it is done personally.

Now I may be a mediocre racer but I sure as hell got a few years and bad-butt surfs under my belt by now. And yes, I'm not foolish enough to say that I can handle any surf. There is always a point were even the most experienced sailor need to say to himself : "Going out now is just stupid". Actually that was they way I started all my cat sailing instructions. "Know you limits !" and in sailing most of the "bad luck" is just an excuse for "bad seamanship".

And don't twist my words, thank you very much.

Wouter

Wouter

Hey Rolf, there was a smiley at the end of my question as well, did you see it ? You still felt the need to correct the accussation right ?

Now you got my point. Rumours start to easily this way.



I can make that comparison but I'm not going to do on this forum now. It will only end in endless bickering.

Also it will require alot of type that I don't really fancy at this time. If you really want to know my opinion than you will just have to give me a phone call one night.

Sorry,

Wouter

Boomer,

Cna you tell me where you got that info from ? The 140 kg quote ?

I'm really interested in finding out where this comes from.

Wouter

Talked to Mitch on friday in the Pitlane.
Nice geezer. Hope he does better in the Tornado Worlds in La Rochelle.

C Ya at the F18 worlds.

Wouter: Sure, I'll call you an evening, please send me your number(I am not to familiar with the diverse dutch telephone directories). Be warned tough, norwegian is a fast-spoken language, and my accent is probably.. exotic?

Of course I noticed the smiley, otherwise I would not have bothered to answer. I would not have made the comment either if I wasn't pretty sure you could handle it. (But honestly, I think you had it coming, as categorical as you were in the original post).


As our australian friends say, no worries?

The RoT-race is approx. 100 kilometers = 54 nm.

Hey Wouter -

I was on the beach at Jensen... I didn't see anyone do anything "stupid." There was certainly a wide range of experience among the skippers, but nobody was dumb. I recall a couple of experienced folks deciding to not push off that morning, and I also recall being surprised that one of the teams I considered less-experienced made it out. I was crushed when one team that made it out didn't make it to the finish line in one piece. I didn't think a single one of them, on the beach or on the water, was "stupid." Maybe you didn't mean it the way it is worded. Otherwise, take some of your own advice there - don't judge. Like this Texel, the still pictures from Jensen can't tell the whole story. Get the Feldman's video.

Here is a picture that shows a boat that could hit the waves pretty square. i wonder if the wind was dead onshore? there are shots of guys on port so maybe it was, or there were just some confused sailors.
A light boat should have an advantage getting thru surf. the main qualitys of a light boat are better acceleration, and less drag in moderate conditions.

[img]http://www.photoos.net/cgi-bin/phts.sh/b/bevewphoto.p?bevec=rot05&besen=35&xmlac=nl&tpl=[tpl]&bphon=76958&stype=0[/img]

I have definitely found that heavier boats are much easier to sail through surf, providing you have time to get up some speed. The reason is inertia and force. F=ma. My favorite boat to sail through surf was my early Hobie 18 (sail #130something)--it must have weighed 450lbs and punched right through. Light boats pop their bows up easier and get knocked sideways easier--that's when capsize happens. Also, momentum is easily lost, and with no momentum there's no steering; no steering and you're a sitting duck. For those reasons, the heavy boats carry through the surf much easier.

BTW, in the photo, the larger wave in the distance is clearly at an angle to the boats heading. Onshore winds are really tough to punch out in, especially with short wave periods. If the conditions chewed up Booth and others, I think it's pretty naive to think the conditions getting out weren't tough.

Perhaps, pulling boats out with a jetski should be a option?

I agree completely with John. I too was on the beach at Jensen, and particularly remember that the ocean had no rythem to it that morning. (We had a couple of very experienced surfers with us there that week deciding when to go out to catch the breaking waves right.) There it was pretty much go at the horn and hope you made the right decisions; pre-start strategy and execution through the surf(50%)and just got lucky (50%).

I do think that the best info came at the KL Steeplechase the following December when the Feldman's previewed the video for some of the sailors from that years Worrell there. The video showed these guys views that made them see what had happened to them.....Views that they didn't get from the boat. ie, they saw the wave right there, but not the one RIGHT behind it!!!

And on boat weight.....

After pushing the Nacra-20 and the F18HT through the surf, the heavier boat seems better at holding initial speed. The lighter boat just gets hammered and stops in the surf. The heavier ones loose some speed, but not all of it!!!

Just my observations from behind the boats....

Rich

100 kliks to the south! Did the RC give you your own start at Walibi Flevo? Hey Wouter you said they were stupid in the Worrell ,Again!We must presume that with your mastery of the English language you know exactly what your writing.
I was at Jensen and it seemed that the unfavoured wind angle was the way to get past the break into open water, the boats that went East or S.East took a beating.The Drivers that went over early to the North on the unfavoured wind angle seemed to get over mountainous swells and chop,five or sIx boats at least thats how it appeared to me.In Texel I got to hand it to everybody that made that event especially the P16 crew, You know he went out in that at gunpoint. "Reality Sailing" another Endemol production! Happier than most!

Hi, all in all nice discussion, the problem was at Texel that the waves [2-2,5 mtr] were coming in very very high fequently, there was no time to recover after being hit by a wave. We managed to get out [on a Nacra 5.5]due to speedingb downwind before the surf, this gave us the oppertunity to look for gaps in the wave patorn. The only "stupid"that I saw peaople do is that they were trying to take the shortest route [eg 90 degrees form the beach] therefore no speed => lost.

out on the water the waves were approx 4 mtrs!!![not kidding] never seen anything like this [sailing for 20 yrs]this close to the beach [ push off from beach was 1,5 hrs before high tide = highest waves here]

Hi Boomer, you are MaartenU right? Did anyone of your posse make it to the start?

Anyway, the course is not 54NM but 35NM. We had this discussion all weekend, I measured it on the map and it really is 35NM .The leaders must have averaged around 17kts, who says tornados are dated?

The wind and surf where blowing straight onshore and didnt allow you to build enough speed to punch through. We were just lucky to find a boat-free place on the beach.

For those interested, I wrote a report at TheBeachcats.com, http://tinyurl.com/bd3mj

(Ladies, please stop the Jensen beach Catfight OK?)

yes we went out at 11, to the north of the tent, we got out fine (just one hit or so), but then had no wind whatsoever on the water and were almost pushed back inshore... we had plenty of wind later that day though, and rain, lightning and torn sails, 90km south of texel. quite a weekend!

and, in a reply to the first poster, and to end the discussion on wave height etc. there will be a dvd released from this year's round texel that anyone can buy, and it should surely include the carnage in the surf.

Hey Tony, you're right about da person behind....

None of our posse did go, we didn't even try to. We ended up helping crashed boats and launching others.
Respect for you single-handed boats (without a jib !) to go out there.
A lot of boats with hulls like the FX-One (flat bottom) had problems with not being able to pierce through the waves. The old boats like the HC16 and HC18 had more chances.

The trick KennethFS used, is the trick everbody needed, to get through the surf unharmed. Just sail parallel to a wave and than with speed go through it.

A lot of sailors made the mistake to try to lower their rudders (even on lee-side!) between the waves.

Regarding the distance. I wonder where the 53 Nm comes from.... It's maybe an option to start from Walibi Flevo

In those surf conditions, and if I have a choice, I would prefer to be on a boardless cat like the Prindle 16 or Nacra 5.7 Mostly because they drift far less than a boarded cat and you can sail (steer) them more easily on the sails alone. And of course because the boat is rather well balanced with the skeg or asym hull in as little as a foot of water you can really power these boats up and punch through the surf. And of course these boats track noticeable better.

I think the guys deserving out most respect are the boarded singlehanders and the more modern boats with very round keel lines. Because every little wave or gust will make them drift or turn.

Wouter

There is a picture of that Worrell (You say it was Jensen beach) where you can see a I-20 being hit by a breaking wave while the skipper is far back on the trampoline and on his knees facing back and fiddling with to get the rudders down. His crew is very far on the hull itself and way in front of the mainbeam. The crew is actually holding the bridle wires to keep himself on the boat. Of THAT crew I most definately said that they were stupid.
I can't find this particular picture easily but here is another one showing a crew near the bridle wire while the skipper is way back on the boat



So why is the decribed crew stupid ?

-1- The skipper wasn't paying attention to the oncoming breaking wave = stupid.
-2- The skipper is far back on the boat and on his knees; the precursors for capsizing backwards, being thrown off or ... (2 times stupid)
-3- Forcing his crew way out front in a really unpractical position. What will happen if the wave puts you in a tack ? The crew will be washed off the boat and then the skipper will have to navigate the surf all by himself = Stupid
-4- The skipper looked like his was trying to get his leeward rudder down as well. = stupid in a surf like that. The luff rudder you can save when you get pushed back by a quickly pulling on the tiller the leeward one will must like jam between sandbar and stern and either rip your stern out of break your rudder setup. = not smart. The stupid part about it that you waste FAR TOO MUCH time getting the leeward rudder down when you should be concentrating on picking up speed and spending as little time in the surf as absolutely necessary. And from memory I see that neither daggerbaord was in the wells, both were laying on the trampoline, but I could be wrong here. IF so than of course the crew was nowhere near them and without a little of the daggerboard sticking out under water you a very unbalanced boat than wants to luff all the time. Be smart and set a little daggerboard and just damaging that over flipping the whole boat and damaging the whole boat. If you are not willing to do that then DON'T go out.


Best way to deal with surf like these is

-1- Speed is EVERYTHING. You may even ride a wave under an angle as long as you have sufficient speed
-2- ride by steering on your sails and with only the help of the luff rudder. Keep the lee rudder out.
-3- Both crew in the luff hull and both near the mainbeam. NOT in front of it, NOT near the rearbeam and then just sail the boat. If they rudder kicks up but you still have speed than stay where you are and adjust you sail setting to keep speed and some form of steerage. Slowing the boat down and get to the rudders = STUPID, Getting the leeward rudder = DOUBLE STUPID
-4- If you have a jib then never uncleat is and have it pulling all the way. Steer, if you have to by sheeting in a out on the mainsail. Don't centre your main traveller, keep it out as well.
-5- Set as soon as possible the luff board. Even a little board in the water makes a noticeably difference and makes steering by the sails alot easier. Yes even 6 to 7 inches will make a difference and you only need water a foot deep to stay clear of the bottom that way.

Of THAT crew I said/wrote that they were handling the surf in a stupid way. And I will never retract my statements about that situation. If anybody thinks that this crew wasn't stupid then they are free to try to sail a big surf in the same way. Just make sure you have alot of green in the bank before doing it.

Wouter

Boomer,

Do I understand it correctly that Mitch Booth himself quoted you the 140 kg all-up sailing weight of the Hobie Fox special concept ? As in the boat that was on the beach that day being exactly that ?

Thanks

Wouter

I'm not worrying.

Thing is that I find that alot of people think that I said things that I never did. Next thing I'll have Mitch Booth phoning me asking why I called him a beginner or said that he is above himself. Of course I never said either thing, but you however did and then implicitly contributed those statements to me. Similar to the "did your your wife recover alright from your beating" - questions.

I'll send you a private message with my phone number.

Wouter

Correct, Quote from the man himself. Same weight as mentioned in an earlier topic on this forum.

My fully equipped FX-One from last year weighs the same.....
But with no result, this thing can be burried for a year or more.

I dunno what all the fuzz is about regarding Texel waves or Worrel waves. Seeing all the mayhem at Texel this year live I noticed that a lot of sailors were lowering the leeward rudder or daggerboard as well just before flipping over by a big wave.
I can't tell any reason for crashing or stupid behaviour from pictures, so I can't make any comparison.

So end this discussion, it makes no sense. Instead, tell me some more about international long-distances races. Next year the Statue of Liberty race will be high on my list.

See how long it takes to guess "Wouter", after 30 questions I came very very close...

Give Lord Vader a fair change and answer all questions thruthfully, or face the consequences of the Dark Side
May the Force be with you

http://www.sithsense.com/ (Turn up your volume to hear Vader's smartass remarks!)

Wouter, your usage of the word "stupid" is extremely insulting and I am very offended by the context of your post above.

-1- Speed is EVERYTHING. You may even ride a wave under an angle as long as you have sufficient speed

True

-2- ride by steering on your sails and with only the help of the luff rudder. Keep the lee rudder out.

False - Both rudders need to be down but not locked. This goes back to item 1.. speed is everything. The more rudder you can get in the water the more speed you can develop into the next wave.

-3- Both crew in the luff hull and both near the mainbeam. NOT in front of it, NOT near the rearbeam and then just sail the boat. If they rudder kicks up but you still have speed than stay where you are and adjust you sail setting to keep speed and some form of steerage. Slowing the boat down and get to the rudders = STUPID, Getting the leeward rudder = DOUBLE STUPID

False again. In those huge waves by sending the crew forward it would keep the boat from tipping over backwards. Many boats tipped over backwards that day that didn't send their crews forward. The I20 steers 100% better as soon as the rudders can be locked. If you think it is deep enough go ahead and lock the rudder between waves. Once the rudder is locked it goes back to item 1.. speed, you can get a lot more speed with the rudder locked down.

-4- If you have a jib then never uncleat is and have it pulling all the way. Steer, if you have to by sheeting in a out on the mainsail. Don't centre your main traveller, keep it out as well.

Mostly true - I steer with my main traveller mostly. I start with the main loosely sheeted and travelled down about 2-3 feet.

-5- Set as soon as possible the luff board. Even a little board in the water makes a noticeably difference and makes steering by the sails alot easier. Yes even 6 to 7 inches will make a difference and you only need water a foot deep to stay clear of the bottom that way.

True again.

And your use of the word "stupid" is insulting in this case.

Wooter, I'd call you "stupid", but that would be an insult to stupid people.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

Wouter, you need to be a bit more careful in your choice of english words. In the context that you seem to be using it, STUPID is a very harsh word (and probably not what you really mean at all).

Might I suggest that you really mean to use the word UNWISE, which might seem to mean the same but in fact lends a very different emphasis in this context?

Regards to all,

Hey guys, let`s keep it nice.
Wouter, if you replace the word "stupid" with the word "crazy" you might have gotten away with insulting the guys, without insulting them ! (saying it`s crazy to be trying to get the leeward rudder down while a beeeg wave is about to fall on your head is better than saying it`s stupid.) Anyway, most sailors would battle to contest the fact that we`re all a little crazy, anyway.
Comparing Texel waves to Jensen waves is just plain 'crazy'(stupid?), anyway. The carnage at Texel this year was caused by an onshore wind with large waves and close sets, enough said. We all know how hard it is to launch in that, whether it`s at Jensen Beach, Texel or anywhere else.
Congrats to the guys who sailed and finished, even those who DSQ`ed for getting one of the markers wrong, man I`d be mad, 120 boats DSQ`ed must mean that the course markers were extremely difficult to see given the sea-state.
C`mon guys lets all grow up, I mean what are you acchieving by saying that you didn`t see any F16`s launching in the photos, if there were only 5 or so of them in some 250 starters, chances are you wouldn`t have seen them even if you were AT the event. By that logic, the only photos of Dart 18`s at Texel I`ve ever seen over the years is of them upside-down in the surf, so can I "logically deduce" that ALL Dart sailors don`t know how to surf-launch ? If I did, well, then I`d be a real smart guy, AND I`ve had annoyed a good few Dart sailors who DO know how to surf-launch, as well as those who don`t, so why do it ?
If we think that belittling others on a public forum is the only way to gain some self-esteem and respect, then we are truly a sad bunch. Sharing ideas and tips is great, but lets not go calling eachother names, please.

I think Wouter's english is good enough to understand the exact meaning of the word stupid, surely he makes it clear in his previous statement. I think he knows he's being insulting.



We all have different ways of nogotiating the surf, I wouldn't agree with Wouters method, in my humble opinion, getting your rudders down ASAP is the correct way to go, its rudders down, crew forward, speed up. When your rudders are down then you can move forward. You need rudders for speed and steerage. I don't think trying to steer with the sails in heavy surf is the right way to go.


Gareth

Doing what these few Worrell sailors did is very wise !

(Feel in any other positive feel good word that will make you feel happy; and double check your boat insureance, coz you are going to need it )

I guess 1+1 equals not 2 but rather (20-18)

Wouter

Hi -
The old catsailin expression applies -

{{if ya ain,t breakin s#@t once in a while ya aint really sailin now are ya }}

The only sailors that havn't broken rudders or castings or boards etc being forced back in to the beach are the tourist types in plaid bermuda shorts that just talk ,--or in this case just post --they don,t really have the time or experience in more extreme ocean racing conditions to offer much ,-except *&^% comments ,-always better applied in self introspection .--Very few catsailors or percentage of really have much time in these types of conditions .-
An intragal part of distance racing is boat prep and tuning ,--most race teams spend a day or two before ocean race events doing nothing but going over every part,bolt pin ring mast rig hardware -safety gear and fitting etc and test sailing it before the event begins.

At Jenson Bch in the 2001 1000 mile race teams broke nuerous rudders --- castings --then the other rudder and themselves in numerous attempts to get out thru surf with a really nasty undertow --side current --of 8 knots or more ,-That type of current causes loss of steering once a breaker hits making course correction -recovery very difficult ,--as appears to be the case in this years Texel race of 50 MN according to the reports and comments from those racing .

Often pictures were taken --snapshots in time ,--catching a skipper or crew temporarily out of position checking a broken rudder etc ,--one does not know unless there ,--they are guessing and often drawing false conclusions along with simplistic mischaracterizations directed at very excellent sailing teams with much greater range of experience.

The I-20 since that race and largely due to it has new rudder castings and new stronger larger rudders .
The process of trial and error with improvement to durability occurs on all boat types. Improvement to them over time as weaknesses are exposed in these types of conditions HOPEFULLY DOES OCCUR AND BOATS IMPROVED .--
I can,t think of a better testing ground for catamarans -
-
It is basically the same OCEAN ,think conditions were similar,-there are most likely designers at the cad system working on the new reinforced versions of parts that failed to make improvements and also sailors that realize they need more time and experience in ocean racing conditions ,-- it is how we develop.--nothing s#$@ d about this .

One thing noteworthy in comparing 1000 or 500 mile race events to 50 mile Texel type race events is ----yes --yes ----the hamster is turning the wheel ,---it is ----yes!! --
--distance involved ----ding ding ding .

THE ATTRITION RATE in a 1000 mile event over 10 days in every imaginable condition and sea state along with accumulative physical aspects over days on sailing teams is very different ,--The cyclic wear on parts either boat OR of human variety is multiplied greatly.

The Great Texas RACE is being run next week ,--hope there is some video of the race along with pics and web sites .
Steve has done great things with this race .

This is one aspect of rekindling the sport in the US ,-
more great events and the media aspect that helps generate interest .The popularity of H-racing was attributable largely to very positive advertisement and media imagery ,-Hobies were on the cover of magazines of all types ,-used in ads -and the environmental and social enjoyment aspects were made known along with the great adventure sailing experiences of all types bring .

I hope the Tybee 500 is still scheduled to be on OLN tv --There are always great video tapes available from Robert and Jeanie also ,--we sometinmes forget how fortunate we are .
In next years event I hope the field once again expands to 20 or 30 teams,--it may take additional boat types to accomplish this ,--looking for a more open type class category with seperate start and hopefully other teams interested enough to enter in 06 on them .
Hope to see some there .-

OK, lets us just settle one argument.

The distance around Texel is around 36 miles as the crow files :

The course of the round Texel race does not follow the contours of the island precisely. Certain areas are forbidden territory so actually the distance will be somewhat longer.

See number 10 in the Round Texel Sailing Instructions below.

10. The course
10.1. The course is clockwise around the island of Texel and has a length of approximately 60 NM. Marks are (large) cylindrical regatta buoys.
The course is shown on a separate page with the sailing instructions.

C'mon gang, can't we all just get along?

There is one very big difference between the Worrell start and the Texel launch.
The Worrell boat were RACING from the beach and the texel boats were only heading out to the starting line in no hurry.

The trick in weezerspeak is that words mean different things when refering to Americans than when talking about europeans.
Example:
About Americans - "Halve the Worrell teams that year compounded on the bad conditions by doing stupid things while sailing through the surf."
About europeans - "A quarter of the crews at Texel can be seen to perform similar no-no's."
So the europeans made mistakes(no-no's), but the Americans did "stupid" things.

About europeans - "The other halve was smart and knew when to throw in the towel."
You see, they were "smart" because, by weezies definition, they were too stupid to know how to navigate the surf.

I appreciate KW pointing out to everyone that he was at another small event a short distance away instead of working on some big work "project".
That "project" was supposed to be his excuse for not being able to attend the Texel.
He has been bragging about the Texel and his "bad-butt surf" launching skills for five years and yet he has never completed the race.
Why is that?
Is he "original recipe" or "extra crispy"?

We now have HRH King Weezies definition of "The worst sailor".

The best part is wizzer taking a still picture of boats he has only sailed a couple of times, and knowing everything that happened before and after the picture was taken, the depth of the water, and how big the surf was or wasn't off the edges of the picture.
AMAZING

He is even so arrogant as to think that Mitch Booth gives a damn about anything he ever said.

I am glad to see the old America-hating weezer come out from under his rock.
It as been a long while since he let his true feelings out.
Keep talking weeze so everyone can know you as I do.

I prefer to look at interesting pictures like the one attached

sorry

So are you saying that the winning boat averaged 60 / (2+(10/60)) = 28.8 knots?

Then you you probably need to heed some of your own advice here Carl with regard to "Bermuda" shorts and who is wearing them.Being from Bermuda,the people I know who wear them are some of the best most experienced sailors in the world.How much do you really know about Bermuda Carl,It's people,the island.I am not disputing your experience here on this forum you have done your races,you are one of the few that partake in the many discussions about sailing catamarans in all conditions. I'll single myself out here,I try to make a go with this cat sailing.I pay my entree fee, I take the boat out beat me and my wife up.Sometimes I even finish the whole damn race. The fact is that it really does not bother me what you say about "Bermuda plaid shorts"and what Wouter says about his observations on sailing overall. The fact that you think that your word is definative and absolute sometimes does. I do not think anyone was hurt in this thread,if anything it put a little badly needed zip in forum. I'm ready to go sailing in my Bda's ..... "Round of "Dark and Stormy's" for "All you all"

Ok....so you don't give a $hit. Fine. You're not helping yourself here. Why are you this way? Instead of being constructive, you are destructive - and that's just not fun or helpful to this sport or my blood pressure. At least you could just keep it to yourself.

hmm, looks like things getting nasty. I think it was very wise of the people to stay ashore. We were out in a nacra 5.5 who's worth $3000. I do not think I would have went out on a $15000 + F18 or Tornado. Halfway trough the race we had to give up due to the fact that the portside hull was breaking...... Now I'm just unhappy, I would have gone grazy if this has happend to a more expensive boat.. BTW dear Wouter, were you at texel and did you start & fininsh

Hi ds

Not sure if the post was meant to be humorous or not .

On the off chance its not ,--there is obviously a large disconnection between intended humor about tourist types that often wear plaid shorts -Roman lace up sandals with white knee high sox --etc etc
{{sometimes called bermuda shorts by department stores }
and the affection someone may have for an island or its people .---The department store shorts -plaid or otherwise do not absolutley define an entire populas or nationalities characteristics ,--to suggest apparel does condembs many EU posters ----visualize -two wild and crazy guys --on the saturday night live skits --I E plaid pants ---gold chains etc ,--
Assure you I would love to visit Bermuda and learn about its unique culture AND PEOPLE --i refuse to go anywhere as a tourist ,-and always attempt to understand a region and its peoples customs ,-why they develop ,its ecology ,and sence of history --it always fasinates ,--,http://www.bermudatourism.com/docs/index2.html--

confession --I do often wear a pair of plaid shorts
as jammies --{sorry for that mental pic }

I did live in Hawaii for 6 months when younger and got a sence of its beautifull history and culture.Very sad in many ways how beautiful it is ,-phrases and speach patterns always engage and end in voice tone inflection , how the island has become overcrowded and native peoples displaced .Such a beautifull culture .

Funny ,-there always seems to be a wonderous ironical aspect to peoples posts who accuse others of some type of human falt or failing ,--this must be due to the fact that in order to recognize the falt one must adopt the human condition first in some form themselves ,--though often not recognize the irony .

example --wout stating --{stupid sailing }--the adjective MORE APTLY and better applied in introspection --FIRST .

I E In this instance the stated opinion that quote --
"The fact that you think that your world is definative and absolute "
I would, in intended good humor and helpfull intent , point out that a person that thought shorts --plaid checked or otherwise defined a peoples character ---believes in a much more definative and absolute world than most.

Am I equally guilty of human falt --of course ,-
If you care to point out specifics please do so on the private e-mail available here .--thanks ,

O K -now bring on the white sox fans --and Roman sandal contingent -- and those EU guys in plaid pants and gold chains --

Best regards DS --have fun and don,t take things stated here on a catsailing forum too seriously --and look for that wonderous irony always present in our lives .
Carl

Hey Carl, What's this EU thing. Did you ever consider what we think of the dress sense of American tourists arriving off a plane or bus in our cities. LOUD is a word we use.

This funny world of ours... And we wonder why there are wars when we can't even discuss these silly little issues without getting bent out of shape.

loud ---and obnoxious also --typical US tourists -Agree -
my mother and father-inlaw just visited --a family history quest vacation ,looking up extended relatives and family ,--you must have seen them .--
sorry bout that .--though most here don,t realy consider the UK part of EU .

side note --you would be amazed at how popular Irish Pubs are here ,--just finished assisting with design on a new one that friends opened recently in Hartland MI ,-they used the Irish Pub company that travels back and forth across the pond and brings back artifacts antiques etc from Ireland as interior decor ,--add traditional music from numerous local musicians,-employees from Ireland that run them ,-and you would feel very much at home at any of them -also one locally in Brighton MI and Ann Arbor MI .

all the best
Carl

That's OK Carl - We don't consider Ireland part of the UK
I have heard of companies who set up "Irish Pubs" in other countries. It seems that they ship them out almost complete in 40ft containers
Sláinte,
Dermot.