Taipan cost?

Why does honorable old/Taipan 4.9 cost more than honorable old/Taipan 5.7 in classifieds.

There is a high market for f16's?

if the demand is high, the price will go up.

While the Taipan 4.7 has gained popularity in the US the 5.7 never did. There were only 3 5.7's imported to the US and only about 35 total built worldwide I believe.
In my opinion there are two kinds of catsailors - the racers and the pleasure sailors. The racers are the ones willing to spend the big bucks to have the latest, most competative boat they can afford that is being sailed one-design or Formula. Pleasure sailors want to spend as little as possible, so as to not cut into the beer budget
Thus the Taipan 5.7 is a boat without a country - the racer's don't want it because they can't race one design with it and it's way to expensive for what most pleasure sailors are willing to spend for their hobby. The 4.9 on the other hand has enough boats here in the US to race class in some areas and F16 in others. It can also be sailed solo or with crew, thus justifiying it's higher price.
The Taipan 5.7 can only be sailed Portsmouth here, it's 80 lbs too light to be an F18.

Really? Where? Has there been a fleet of 4.9 or F16 in the US? I know there was talk of having an F16 Fleet at Spring Fever one year, but did it happen? If so, has it happened again? Just curious.

The F16 has been in a slow build for years in Florida, USA.
They also had a fleet at the JPOR in June. No, it's not a H16 fleet but it clearly is gaining in popularity. Most of the new interest is being created by the Blade built in the US by Vector Works Marine.

Go to the page :

http://www.geocities.com/f16hpclass/SpringFever_2002_pictures.html


And say hello too !

Kirt Simmons / Ken Marshacks / Michael Coffman
Kenneth and Ann Marie Newbury
Jerry and Hilary Kailin
Chuck Harnden / Brian Farrar
J.P.Ayers / John Riley
Bill Moran / Wouter Hijink

These sailors made up the Formula 16 HP class at Springfever 2002


I'm sorry to inform you that we have only one 1 picture of an I-17 and only 2 of A-cats (of which one is Dave Carlson foiling catnip = banned by A-cat rules these days).

I can't quite remember why we have so little pics of these makes (Notch, notch, wink, wink)

Wouter

Wouter,

Do you think that the "F16 HP" background on the link you provided has anything to do with it? Your link contains this quote "This page shows all the pictures of acceptable quality that were taken by Kirt Simmons of the Formula 16 HP group at the Spring Fever 2002 regatta." It is not surprising to me that there would be few pictures of the I-17R or A-Class boats! Kurt was taking pictures to promote the Formula 16 HP group!

I had forgotten that Jerry and Hilary Kailin had taken their T4.9 to Spring Fever in 2002. Jerry traded his Taipan 4.9 in to the local dealer for a used I-17R later that year. He was the one who said that he thought the I-17R is a superior boat to the T4.9, especially when it came to single-handed spinnaker sailing. Jerry is the only person I know who has owned and raced both boats.

One thing to consider about the Taipan is build quality. I recently sailed with a Taipan F16 that had been built about 12+ years ago. With the exception of some wear and tear on the hardware, the hulls, beams, rudder system looked like they were new. The boat was incredibly solid and stiff and could have been passed off as a 1 year old boat with how it looked and sailed. The build quality AHPC sends out is exceptional, and I would expect a long competitive life from their products. So besides the supply/demand issues, that also might factor into the price.

Simple mate. Someone buys a 5.7, sails it once scares themselves to death, then sells it real cheap the next weekend. The fear is half the fun if you ask me!

So you DID know that springfever 2002 with F16's happened !

So how do we now value your statement :"... I know there was talk of having an F16 Fleet at Spring Fever one year, but did it happen? If so, has it happened again? ... Just curious"

Can we expect any more sudden recollections ?

And don't try to chance the subject again.

Wouter

Funny, that must be on "Ricks" 6th and final video "Scared to Death and how to get good dollar value for what is left of the pile on the trailer"! Not yet released..........For some reason I do not see Rick White selling a Taipan 5.7 because he was afraid of it.

There's 3 Taipan 4.9s that live at the Gulfport (FL) Yacht Club. There are also several others in the state. I believe there have been numerous races down here if FL in the last year or two where they have had enough to race as a class.

Here is a "recollection" for you.

There were five taipan 4.9s(dpn 65.3) at the 2002 Spring Fever regatta.
There were two Isotopes(dpn 74.2), J.P. Ayers and John Riley, starting with them.
There were seven Tigers and six F18HTs.

There was one f16/taipan at the 2003 Spring Fever, racing in the Open-A Spin Class.
There were no Isotopes.
There were nine Tigers.

There were six Isotopes at the 2004 Spring Fever, racing as Isotopes.
There were no f16/taipans.
There were 19 F18s.

There were four Isotopes at the 2005 Spring Fever Regatta.
There were no f16/taipans.
There were 16 F18s.

Do you recollect who won the 2004 f16 North American Championships.

Where are the 2005 Championships being held?

So you are actually confirming what I just wrote.

Your point ?


Wouter

Sam,
The growth in the F18 fleet looks healthy except for
the last year where they dropped off by 3 (ie 19 to 16).

Do you think the F18s growth is begining to decline
or stagnate or do you think this is just a hickup.

Globaly the growth to date seems to be very solid.
As you have obviously been studying the scene are
they in the USA to stay. Interested in your take
on the situation.

Regards,
Phill

Phill,

The numbers dropped in 2005 because the Tiger worlds started the day after Spring Fever. A lot of boats had to be shipped to CA well before the event.

And the F18 North Americans is poised to be the largest yet. It's going to be a multimedia insanity with online live video from the starts and tons of info.

http://northamericans.naf18.com

Jake,
That sounds great.
What site will be hosting the web cam?
Regards,
Phill

The excitement starts August 7th and will continue through August 12th with the live web cast of the F18NAs.
Can’t wait for the action to start? Then visit www.F18NAOnline.com now for teaser video’s on the R33 and the F18NAs.

KW,
AS USUAL, you only see what you want to see.
No, I was NOT confirming what you just wrote.
You DID NOT state that two of the boats racing with the f16s were underpowered, non-spinnaker, over-weight Isotopes.
As the handicap shows, the isotope doesn't have a chance in he!! of winning an f16 regatta.
You DID try to mislead the reader into thinking there were more true f16s than actually showed up.
This is just another case of your lying about the f16 class.

You need to grandfather some more totally non-competitive boats to boost your numbers.

Isotope racing with F16s same as the Mosquitos being raced with F16s. No chance of beating the Taipan, Blade and Stealth over the line. Plus the Mosquito weighs less than the prescribed F16 weight.

Case of "number boosting" I think

Troll

Actually mosquito's did beat true F16's and Taipans over the line several times, so that is not it. You'll be suprised how quick that oldie still is. And the Mosquito sailors themselfs requested to be part of the F16 class structure. We are happy to include them as we have a policy of inclusiveness as long as everybody races first in wins and doesn't have a rating faster then 102 under Texel.

Under the same rules the Isotope sailors themselfs requested to start with us and race us "first in wins" at Springfever 2002. They fully accepted any disadvantage that we Taipan sailors felt was present. So in effect they made themselfs part of the F16 fleet when they could have chosen to sail as Isotopes of an Isotope rating.

One can only admire such a "don't whine, lets do it" attitude.

Very much so in the case of the mosquito sailors as well, who on disadvantaged boats, are darn difficult to beat on "first in wins". That is a true show of skill. It is alot more heart warming then bitching about having your own start with less boats than I have fingers on one hand.

Not a greatness of character that we can expect any time soon of you guys, I guess.

They raced as part of the F16 fleet (scoring) and therefor count as part of the F16 fleet.

Besides aren't we making alot of fuss about 2 Isotopes and thus TOTALLY ignoring the 5 Taipans that were present ? Maybe you want to discount the Taipan sailed by Bill and me as well as I'm not a US sailor. Lets see what else we can find to lower the F16 numbers so it has less boats on the water than some other classes.

And then you are accusing me of selective reading.

This is actually all quite funny.

I remember how for years Sam used to claim that my Typhoon F16 was just smoke and mirrors of a deranged man. Now it pops up regulary in race results. And it sure as hell places alot higher in the results than Sam and his boat.

I'm already enjoying myself with the thought that sure enough in the future Sam will once again look like the "end-of-times" preacher on the corner of the street. He must truly be a masochist or ....

Wouter

Actually that is the way a Formula setup works. It limits a boats maximum performance by ruling on certain features. It does not force a minimum performance upon boats.

You can bring an underpowered, non-spinnaker and overweight boat to the F18 championships and race it first in wins (e.q. as an F18) with other F18's !

It all comes down whether, as the owner of such a boat, you would want to do such a thing. Apparently the Isotope sailors did just want such a thing at springfever 2002.

THAT is the way a formula class works. Nothing misleading about that

Wouter

Anonymoustroll - why on earth would we (or anyone) be interested in or take seriously the view(s) of someone who doesn't even have the [email]b@lls[/email] to post their name or ID?

Many boards will not allow anonymous posting and I believe that if you aren't prepared to be identified with your opinion then it is no opinion at all.

Stand up and identify yourself, explain the background to your view and become part of legitimate debate! Otherwise, just crawl back under your stone....

Has got to be an Anarchist..... Where being anonymous is the norm ....

Best bloody sailing site on the net where nearly ANYTHING goes and bull$hit is called bull$hit in the most non descreat ways

Where the statas quo blows

Hi all,

this thread was doing OK with reasonable arguments, don't let it degenerate.

On the matter of Mosquito's racing F16 as the accuser was not identified, we will assume that he lives outside of OZ and South Africa so has never seen a Mossie, never mind have any knowledge of how they fit in to cat racing fleets. But I have sailed them and can state categoricaly that they are a competitive boat with a spinnaker in almost any cat fleet. Just ask the A cat, F18 and even Tornado sailors that I have shown my transoms too, never mind the Taipans.

In fact here is a challenge for Mr. Anonymous I will be happy to race you on any 16' cat any time against a Mosquito.

Of course then we would find out if you are in a position to comment on any class other than your own if you have one.

How about we just stick to commenting abot what we know, I for one often avoid commenting on things I see written on this Forum, as I don't know all the classes in other countries. Or how they sail at Regattas.

Regards Gary.

Hi Gary,

I too would rather not comment if a thread referenced something that I was not familiar with. Instead I might ask a question?

I have no intention of causing a 'discussion' to degenerate into an unproductive slanging match, but I strongly believe that we should be entitled to know with whom we are debating? What their background knowledge and experience is and the basis for their view. How else can a reader of a thread form an opinion as to the value of the post?

Is the poster biased/obsessive/vindictive? Are they well informed/knowledgeable or experienced with the topic? Could they just be plain mad or stupid?

My own views do not always accord with other people on this forum, but I'm prepared to read people's views and be convinced or otherwise. We are all interested in catsailing and (I assume) furthering the cause of catsailing wherever in the world we happen to be. Name calling and its associated negative practices do nothing to convince anyone that catsailing is for them, enthusing about particular boats/regattas/results etc can and does.

Hi Twicebitten,

Is your F-16 (in your Avtar) the cut down A Class with spinnaker. If so please post a bigger pic.

Cheers

Stephen,

I'm sure Gary has most pictures himself, but if he hasn't then I think I got over 50 pictures of Altered at various building stages and and a score of events.

If you want to do a detailed study then I think I can help you out.

Wouter

We do not allow Anon Posters on this Open Forum. That particular poster uses that name as his User Name, and is fully responsible for his posts and can be traced easily.
Rick

With respect Rick, that user clearly doesn't want to be identified as a quick check of the User List will verify. No information at all - not even a location.

In addition his/her? choice of name is clearly provocative as is the signature. I would surmise that this all indicates his/her true intentions. (none of them positive)

Hey Rick, maybe you can answer the question. I did'nt realize that the cost of the two Taipans was so involved.No wonder it takes years to develop a class these days! Thanks for the try Robi.. thanks Bob G.

John,

I help to look after another website Forum that uses the same software as this one does, Rick will know this person's IP address and will also know a few details of the "person" including an e-mail address; I know it is not much; but this person can be traced.

An e-mail adress can be had for free an totally anonymous at various hostings. Hell, you could just log into Hotmail and create an account under a weird name within 2 minutes. Try and trace that !

Than if one is careful enough to use a provider with DHCP IP adress assigning then not even that can be used to pinpoint a given user. Only his broad location. Sort of like the user is somebody in North Carolina. Not sufficient to stand up in court, I say.

One can just as well map lunar brightness to geographical location and get the same broad result. HOWWWWLLLLL !!! (F16 insider joke)

Wouter

NM

It felt like I was in the old forum there for a second!

Don't worry, we're safe!

Robi,
Those look like Flyer rudder head on your boat. Are they?

Did the Proctor spreaders come standard?


Looks nice, I like it.
Bill

I just hope it isn't SAM logged in with a different email address and name? I for one couldn't handle him as a "co joined" clone.

BLAH,BLAH,BLAH,BLAH,

I got to tell some of you to take your negative attitudes and shove' em were the sun don't shine. Some of you are so DAMM petty. This place is starting to sound like a friking soap. Your a bunch of girls. Take some Motrin. Get a life!

Why don't you go sailing and try and have some fun.

Here's an idea,PM each other so you don't make us all look like morons.

I don't care how many F16's there are in the world just as long as those people are happy and sailing.

This site is here to promote a fine sport and recreation.

I have NO idea

Thank you very much. Well said Mike!

So, after an incredible amount of B.S., what's the cost of a Taipan?

I'd like to know the cost as well.............
But can someone give it some context and rank the prices of comparable boats that have been mentioned in this thread so that it really means something?

Thanks,
Greg

Yeh I wanna know to because when I get one I'm trying to figure where my out riggers are gonna go? Are Taipans easy to milk?

Why don't you go the classified section and see what Rick wants for it yourself ?

The info you seek is right there.

Comparisons. Rick sold his T5.7 earlier this year I believe (or late 2004) for less. That is what the discussion is all about

Wouter

I know what the damn thing cost I have seen both of the boats. How much does your Typhoon cost to make or is there a factory for that, do we have Typhoons in America ? How fast is it compared to a Mystere Twister the boat they copied the H tigerrrr from!" Bartender , bartender ".

For new boats here is the AHPC website:
http://www.ahpc.com.au
They do not make the Taipan 5.7 as of 2004.
They do make the 4.9, A-Cat, and the Capricorn F18.
Speaking of the Capricorn does anyone know if there are any in the US yet?

I am the one who bought Ricks 5.7. For me the boat fits perfectly for what I want to do. I want to race to have fun and I want a boat that hauls a$$ in 8 knots of wind and won't kill me when I have to drag it across the beach during low tide to the trailer. For what I want the cost was well justified. I think I got an awesome boat at a great deal. If I was a competative racer I am sure I would have bought an F18 due to my current "sumo-sailor" status If I was more sveldt I would have probably went with an F16 due to it's versality of solo or two up sailing.

KW,
The fact that a boat with a higher(slower) rating occasionally wins is irrelevant.
Luck and crew experience can make up the difference in ratings, OCCASIONALLY.
The two Isotopes each won a race against the much faster Taipans.
That is not "Fair Racing", that is throwing dice.

The Isotopes had a choice of a small, varied Open Class or to "pretend" to be an f16.
You had previously drafted the Isotope into your first f16 efforts, but have removed them from your grandfather list.

No one has ignored the Taipans, on the contrary, I pointed them out, you didn't.
I "selected" the parts that you intentionally left out.
But you did show up with an over Class sized spinnaker off of your old Prindle and raced agaist the Class legal boats didn't you?
That shows a lot of "character".

Let's see, you claimed to be working on your boat on 10/05/01, you installed the last parts on 7/24/04, and you finally sailed on 7/25/04.
You claimed to have been "working" on that boat for THIRTY-THREE (33) MONTHS!!!.
Strangely, you never posted a single picture of the boat during construction, no matter how many of your class members asked.
Tell who actually built the hulls and platform.
You lied to everyone about when you started, how much,if any, progress was being made and when you were going to finish.
There was plenty of "smoke and mirrors".

You chickened out of the Round Texel (AGAIN) this year, with another B.S. excuse.
What is your definition of "regularly" and "alot higher"?
How many races have you won and how many regattas have you won?
Give us links to yours and my race results and remember that club races don't count.


Well congratulations, you just beat Darryl for the most ridiculous statement contest.
What class forces "a minimum performance upon boats"?
Who in their right mind would buy a totally non-competitive boat and join a formula class where they have no chance of winning?
TOTAL B.S.

catman,
The purpose of an open forum is to allow everyone to voice their own, personal opinion.
It allows both sides of a disagreement to be voiced.
If false or misleading statements are used by either side, it affords an opportunity for the truth, the whole truth to come out.
How would you like it if you came here for the first time to ask about which boat to buy and one group of people lied about their boats?
They understated the cost, overstated the performance, and exagerated the numbers of their boats actively class racing.
Would you want everyone to ignore this and allow you to buy one of these boats without ever speaking up?
Or would you want a simple list of the non-participation by a class so you can make your own decision?

Darryl,
Again you flatter yourself.
I have never had a need to hide my identity.
I have always expressed my opinions openly without ulterior motives, unlike you.

Robi,
WHAT IS YOUR RANK AND DUTY ASSIGNMENT?
Are you ashamed?

No not at all. But I answer what I feal like answering. At this moment, I dont feal like answering you. If anyone else is interested, I will answer without any issues via PM. My rank, title or rate is seriously NONE of your business.