Hobie vs. Nacra, which to buy?? Help!

So I am about to buy a Nacra 5.2 of about 1976 vintage, in very good condition. Why or why not buy this boat over similar vintage Hobie 16 or 18??? I need direction!!
-Lost Soul

The NACRA is a much nicer. better behaved, higher performanced, dryer, cat (among other things) and the decks never went "spongy" as they didn't use poly urethane foam as a "sandwich" layer in their decks as did Hobie.
(just my opinion)

Nacra parts are half the cost.

Where do you live? What kind of sailing do you intend to do?

I can highly recommend the Nacra; it's extremely stable compared to the Hobie 14's and 16's I rented, in terms of pitchpoling. It's also faster (even with just a uni sail!) than those boats.

At least, that's the impression of a relative catamaran newbie

Only downside: I've heard that Nacra models before '85 are a bit heavier, and maybe harder to find parts for?

This site has some good information for 1st time catamaran buyers:

http://www.sailingproshop.com/Catamaran.htm

-Aaron

That's easy.
The best boat is my boat.
Ask anyone they'll tell you the same thing.

Just about the only thing that would sway me over to a H16 or TheMightyHobie18 would be if there were lots of them around, and folks you could sail with, Its lots more fun to have a few of the same boat on the water at the same time. If you wanna race really soon, then I would suggest trying to find out what racers in your area are sailing. In my opinion though the 5.2 is a superior boat.

I had the same decision back in the late winter. I bought BOTH. After sailing them both I sold the Hobie 16 and kept the Nacra. It's one of the best choices I made and also one of the easiest. It's a great boat. You will love it.
Greg

Parts for the Hobie are available around the world. There are dealers for Hobie Cats and parts all over the world. The 5.2 has not been built in many years (what? since the mid 80's) and the 16 is still a thriving boat and class world wide. I would beg to differ on the parts cost being higher. The Hobie 16 is also one of the driest rides of all cats. Narca construction has it's own issues, so saying soft decks area a significant issue to be concerned about is false. There are tens of thousands of old Hobie 16s still sailing strong. You want a daggerboard boat? The Hobie 18 is also a great choice.

Sounds like we started up the holy wars...

Living in Salt Lake City, which isn't completely in the sticks but sure isn't an international hub of cat sailing, I can say parts aren't a problem for either a Hobie or Nacra - and this is coming from a Nacra owner who frequents a shop that services and sells Hobies.

I will agree that a Hobie 16 rides "drier" than my Nacra - it sits about half a foot higher off the water. On the other hand, that same design leads to easy pitchpoling. As for Nacra construction having "its own issues", any boat will need regular maintenance and will have its weak spots.

From what I can tell, the newer Hobies are great. If I had $5000+ to spend on a new boat, I could think of worse ways to do it than get a recent-model Hobie 18. If there are a lot of Hobies in your area and you want abundant, fair racing above speed/comfort/ease of sailing, it makes sense to look for a Hobie.

That said, when looking for a 70's or 80's boat, I'd personally stay away from Hobie 16's and especially Hobie 14's. Obviously they're fun boats that will beat a Sunfish any day, and there are a lot of very happy H14/16 owners out there. But for the price, they don't handle nearly as well as a Prindle or Nacra (or a Hobie 18) - especially with the pitchpoling issue.

This is just my opinion; I acknoweldge I am a relative cat newbie who has sailed a H14, H16 and Prindle 16 as rentals many years ago before buying a Nacra.

I currently have a Nacra 5.2 modified for single-hand with a Pentax sail.

In the past I have had: H14, H14T, H18Mag, H17.

Personal opinion:

H14/H14T - Small, not much boyancy, fun boat for someone by themselves a lot. Otherwise No thanks... slow.

H18Mag - A war-horse. Not for single-handers. A hell of a lot of fun with 2-3 people in a good breeze. Built extremely tough, but also over 400lb.

H17 - Fun boat for 1 or 2 people. Not a light wind boat. The old mylar sails were terrible. The build quality is the flimsiest of all Hobies. For a single-hander it is a fun boat though. The centerboard design is down right moronic. Easy to move around on your own.

Nacra 5.2 - Solid. Under 300lb. Parts are generally cheaper in comparison to Hobie including sails HT or otherwise. I have never been a huge fan of the Nacra rudder system, but I'd rather replace ropes instead of Hobie cams. Generally fast boat before HT sails. After HT sails, wow. Pre-1983 N5.2's did not have foam sandwich hulls. Just straight fiberglass.


Basically: If you want to race one-design, buy an H16. If not, I recommend Nacra. From what I have seen Nacra generally makes a higher quality boat. Nacra has more support overseas than they do in the states. Parts will always be around and there are a ton of sailmakers. You aren't locked into buying MFG only parts.

I've had a H16, then a TheMightyHobie18 SX, a Nacra 6.0na, and finally an Nacra 20. I by far find the Nacra to be higher performing, more thrilling boat. The N20 is by far the most thrilling boat I have ever sailed. Neither my 16 nor my 18 went soft (I only had them for a few years), but the cams were a pain to replace in the rudders. The N20 seems a little more fragile than the 6.0, and def. more fragile than the 16 or 18, but I still run it very hard and the performance is worth it. Generally speaking, I have found that Hobies don't last as long (delaminate), but replacement parts are usually easier to find. What it comes down to, though, is don't buy a boat that you don't like (or is soft).
Trey
N20 314
Layline Rigging
www.velocitysailing.com

I bought a Nacra 5.2 earlier in the spring after sailing mostly on H16s. The Nacra is a much better boat (I'm biased). My friend who sails with me on the H16 says that the rigging on the Nacra is too complicated, but I think it is much better because you can shape and pull the sails from any direction you need to get the proper trim. I have found that the H16 (especially the jib) is limitted on trim options. Some more experienced sailors might disagree or maybe they have different setups than the standard H16.
I had to do a small repair on my boat last month that was a piece of cake to work with. I believe my boat is an 84 and it has solid fiberglass hulls. The hulls on the Nacra 5.2 are very solid compared to the H16. I have found that even though the H16 sits higher, both boats are wet in any kind of chop. Although, the h16 is much much more likely to pitchpole on you, especially with a second sailor aboard. My boat is the only Nacra parked on a beach that has about 10 H16s, 1 H14, and a bunch of sunfish/lazers. I don't have a problem sailing around with my friends on different boats. One thing though, if you do get the Nacra 5.2 and you sail with friends on H16s, make sure you have a flexible neck. You will be forced to look back a lot to see your friends sail.

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

ok, how much does a hobie 20 mast cost, with comptip? Nacra 6 mast is less than $900us. What about rudder castings? Nacras are about $100.

Rob, you got your hull fixed up? Ready for a PC Cat Club race this Saturday at Carl Grey Park?

I own a Nacra 5.2 and I used to race on a Hobie 16 as a crew for a good friend.

There are major difference between the two boats but BOTH BOATS ARE REALLY NICE!



WRONG!!!!! This is the worst catamaran in my experience as far as spray is concern as soon as you start putting some weigth on it. I remember a run with 550 lbs on the wire + the skipper and we were unable to see anything. the skipper had to wear swimming googles to see something!!!


The real strong points of the Hobie16:

Much easier to control in messy waves! While the Nacra can be a handfull, the smaller hulls will not move as much when hitted by waves and swell.

Another point: Might be one of the easiest cat for traillering. Simply use the pylones as anchor points, you can even use regular rope! Raising the mast is easier and tightening the stays is not even important.

Finally, this cat is very good for beaching and overall the hulls are more solid than other cats

I think that everybody will agree that both steering system have issues

Strongs points of the Nacra 5.2
Very light! I am able to list my 5.2 of the ground and walk with it is the tramp and the mast are not installed.

Easy to right

Points well, tacks well

Looks modern!

My main problem with the 5.2 is thwe jib wires system. It was a good idea 30 years ago but those steel wires on the tramp are really an problem for me.

BTW, If I could swapp my Nacra 5.2 for a Hobie 16 in the same shape, I would do it right now because I am now stuck with traillering to the water

Charles Leblanc
Nacra 5.2 #26

One thing to consider is how well the Nacra 5.2 sails next to a slowbie... I mean... Hobie. Side by side I can usually crawl past the H16 my friend sails. That is not saying much for the Nacra because he is much more experienced than I am. So, the Nacra makes up for my errors plus some.


Steve,
The Nacra 5.2 is all fixed and I have sailed on it a couple of times since (between tropical storms and hurricanes). I'd love to crew on one of the races. I have no race experience whatsoever, but I feel like I would be a good crew. I weigh around 150# and I am relatively well fit aerobically. Let me know if you need a second.

-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2

where are you guys getting N5.2 lighter than H16's? Take the boat that you feel most comfortable with your the one that has to sail it.

In my experience the H16 is a much more difficult boat to sail than the Nacra. The 16 pitchpoles, and flipsbackwards as well sometimes if you are not careful. The Nacra has a lot more hull volume so you don't have to be as careful about weight placement. This makes the boat a lot less work to sail. The Nacra tacks very easily, the 16 is a bear to tack.

The jib track wire can easily be taken off. If you are racing then you can sew loops in the tramp to attach the jib blocks. This is a very well known and well documented fix for the jib wire problem.

Personally I think that the Nacra rudder system is quite good. Very simple and easy to fix. No cams and springs to break or wear. The Nacra hull design is one of the best. They got it right the first time.

That one problem about the H16 that I forgot about... the "popping a wheelee" issue. Because of the ssslllooowww tacking of the H16, we usually try to do a roll tack. The problem is that even in medium wind, it tends to pop a wheelee while trying to perform this maneuver. With the daggerboards, the Nacra tacks almost as well as a monohull. I am not required to backwind the jib on the Nacra like I have to do a lot of on the H16.
However, the H16 is simpler to rig and it is much easier to beach, especially solo. I end up running all over the tramp trying to get ready for a beaching, but I only beach it once per trip, I tack many times, so the payoff is worth it.

-Rob V.
Panama City

Pitchpoling, pitchpoling. Rake your mast back as conservatively recommended in the Hobie 16 Tuning Guide and you'll find your pitchpoling problem becomes a near non-issue. I sail my H16 single handed almost exclusively in 15-25 knt winds and I haven't PP'd in ages - and I push it pretty hard (eg wear a wake boarder helmut on the crazy days)
You'll find that adding foot holders/supports, including a pair as far aft as possible for those screaming reaches, makes big wind sailing the H16 a new experience. You become "one with the boat" if you will. You'll see, try it.
I sail Lake Champlain often and a neighbour has a Nacra 5.2. I beat him everytime time! And how can you beat the H16 in the waves?
PS I replaced my wire rigging last year and today the 6 inch section of forestay between the tang and the jib halyard block snapped in 12 knts wind on a close reach. Surprisingly, the rig collapse rather gently over the tramp and I was able to easily remove sails and clean up the rigging. I was 3 miles out - paddled for 1/2 hour then was towed the rest. Mmmmmmm

Good luck someone was around.
Kind of makes you wonder what would happen if a shroud went.

It depends on what you want to do with the boat. If you want to race, then buy the one that has the best racing fleet in your area. If you want to just sail for fun, buy the boat you feel most comfortable with.

I taught myself to sail from scratch on a Hobie 16. I pitchpoled one towards the end of my first season on the water. I never did it again over the next four years I owned the boat. You learn what you can and cannot do and sail her accordingly. Every design has it's idiosyncracies (sp?) and you will learn them.

Plus, isn't part of the allure of sailing that it takes skill and you are constantly learning. It's not like a power boat where you turn a key and all of a sudden you can drive a boat.

You will have fun with either boat you decide to purchase. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

One thing that is nice about the Hobie 16 is that a tired fat guy can get back on it after he falls off. The deck is only inches off the water. Some other boats are way up there.

I can't speak for or against the Nacra but I have owned a Hobie 16 for 20 years and sail both lakes and ocean. I don't care for racing. When I started looking for a used Hobie (I ended up buying a new one) I also looked for a Nacra. I was told that they are lighter and faster but the hull construction was thin and vulnerable to damage. There are many more H-16 out there so you have a better chance of finding a good used one. After 20 years I am amazed at how well mine has held up. I pitchpoled twice in that 20 years and it was my fault. I have no trouble coming about, just backwind the jib. I set the boat up alone and sail solo much of the time yet I have sailed with four of us with no problem.

I believe the Hobie 18 compares more to the Nacra since they both use dagger boards and rounded hulls. The 18 is more of a racing machine. The dagger boards and jib blocks which are in the tramp reduce the effective size of the tramp. I believe the 16 has more room to move around.

Any catamaran will be a wet boat but the Hobie isn't bad. The wettest boat I was on is an Isotope. It is a very fast boat but very low.

Howard

That's a good point. Once you have it righted you still have to pull yourself on board

With the H16 it's a two step process. Therefore theoretically if you are over weight or not really fit the H16 (hull being so close to the water) would actually be a hell of a lot safer in a capsize.

the main comparison between the 5.2 and the h16 is that they both have 2 hulls. they are very different boats.
The TheMightyHobie18 compares to a 5.2 because of the daggerboards, but the TheMightyHobie18 boards are more user friendly.
old 5.2s have a bar that runs fore and aft down the center-a real genius idea...not
In some areas of the country an old H16 is free or close to it. that's an incentive in my book.
as written above, how & where you will be sailing is your main criteria for this decision.
i believe pitchpoling a Hobie is pilot error and can be avoided although i think it is harder to pitch a 5.2. Also the raised deck of the H16 does make the boat easier to drive in heavy conditions as the sailors get hit by less sheets of water.
i would think parts costs would be similar in all the old beach cats. More chance of finding used hobie parts though. the hobie castings are expensive, but nacras don't have many castings. Hobie rudder systems are more user friendly as long as they are maintained. the use of a piece of line to operate your rudders is frought with difficulty. not a fan of the rope-a-dope style of rudder up down.

I have never had a problem with pp'ing a H16 solo, but with two adults and medium air, you had better be on guard. On the 5.2, even with and adult crew, I sometimes have to tell them to move forward to push the hulls down a little. I actually like the bar going through the middle. It makes a good place to put your foot for leverage. I lifted a hull too high once on the H16 and almost capsized because I went sliding down the tramp. The bar is very convenient and despite its name, doesn't get in the way of your knees during tacks. Side note... I'm relatively small so I can duck the boom and tack pretty easily. The H16 tramp is much less cluttered, but once you trim the sails and are moving along, there is plenty of room on the Nacra... again, I am only 150#/ 5'9".
-Rob V.
Panama City
Nacra 5.2