Sails

Posted By: PTP

Sails - 09/05/05 06:24 PM

I recently got a Nacra 6.0 express and the sails have a plastic covering on one side but not the other. It seems like is is put on with a combo of adhesive and being sewn in with the dacron. Parts of the plastic have started coming off at the edges. What is the point of this plastic and how much do you figure it would cost to fix or would it require replacing the sail?

Posted By: Jake

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 06:30 PM

Hmmmm...a dacron/mylar laminate sail on a 6.0? That must be some sort of custom sail someone had made for the boat. That type of material is not known for it's durability although it is pretty cost effective. Once they start coming apart, replacement is pretty much the only option.

You really can't beat the value and durability in pentex fabric. It's a mylar laminate on both sides with bunches of pentex threads (scrim) running in the middle of the sandwich. You can have a custom main sail made for somewhere around $1200 or purchase a new factory sail for something around $1300. If you were to go with a basic dacron (white cloth) the price would be slightly lower.

Posted By: PTP

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 06:43 PM

Thanks for the info- I think they are custom made by Schurr Sails. The prices you suggested- is that for a main or a jib- my main is fine (but made of the same stuff), the problem is with the jib.

Posted By: PTP

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 06:51 PM

Jake,
BTW-I saw some of your other posts regarding nacra 6.0 and you seem to know a lot about this boat. Can you give me the history of the Nacra 6.0 express (e.g. what is the difference between the reg 6.0 and the 6.0na and the 6.0ex)? I heard that the only difference is the ex has a larger jib. What is the general opinion about its racing ability?

Posted By: Jake

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 09:16 PM

There was a thread on here some time back where someone, who knew better than I. After some searching, I finally found it. It was posted by Mark Michaelson.

Quote

The NACRA 6.0 was born from the NACRA 5.8 and was designed by Roy Seaman. The sail plan was designed by Skip Elliot. The original NACRA 6.0 had a 31 foot mast, 255 square feet of sail area and did not come with a spinnaker. The upper trap wire (skipper) connected to the spinnaker hound which made for a "pumping" sensation when sailing it.
It had the same diamond wires and spreaders as the NACRA 5.8. It also had a self tacking jib. Spinnakers were added but there was no official size limitation or requirement.

Shortly there after there was a European version which had a slightly larger jib that overlapped by about 10%.

Randy Smyth found the boat to be under powered and came up with the 6.0 EXPRESS which featured a bigger main and jib.

The NACRA 6.0NA was the first factory boat with an increase in sail area. The concept was to put up as much sail as was practical on a boat this size with no boom and a conventional mast.

The mast configuration changed from the regular 6.0 to the NA with the addition of a wider set of spreaders and a higher attachment point for the outer diamonds and the second set of inner diamonds helped control pumping of the rig.

The jib area was greatly increased on the 6.0NA as well. This turned the mainsail inside out in anything over 16 knots of wind.

In 1995 we started experimenting with a carbon mast on the 6.0NA and it helped the performance of the boat a lot. Overall the boat sailed better with the carbon rig but it's reduction in healing and pitching moment was the most welcomed change.

I hope this helps clarify the lineage of the boat.

For a picure of Larry Harteck and I sailing a carbon mast NACRA 6.0NA off Santa Cruz Island go to: http://www.sailingproshop.com/images/Cat95.jpg

Best regards and happy Thanksgiving to you all.

Mark A. Michaelsen ~MM~

$1300 is for the main only. The jib runs about $500. Thrown in some battens, and you are looking at around $2100 for a complete set of sails (this is what I paid about two years ago).

[Linked Image]

Posted By: Jake

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 09:21 PM

another image

[Linked Image]

Posted By: bullswan

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 10:29 PM

Not to highjack the posting but I spoke with Calvert sails a couple of weeks ago and he told me that 5.0 Dacron (only white)was the way to go for durability and economy especially where I plan not to race for some time yet. He thought the Pentax would not last as long and was more expensive. Do I have that wrong and/or do you concur?

The prices quoted were around $ 800-900 for my Nacra 5.5SL (boomless)Main for the Dacron. I thought around $ 1000-1200 for the Pentax. (might have that wrong)

Thanks,
Greg

Posted By: Jake

Re: Sails - 09/05/05 11:17 PM

Greg,

You are right and you bring up a good point. For me, Pentex IS the better durability because I really put my sails through a lot of stress and strain racing them hard throughout the year. Pentex, in my scenario, will hold it's shape longer than a Dacron sail. However, for crusing and having a good time where you aren't sheeting and downhauling for everything you're worth 75% of the time, you can't beat the life of dacron. Dacron is a great material if you don't intend to frequently race hard.

Most jib sails are constructed from dacron because the stress loads are smaller and the sail usually has to flex a lot as it sweeps back and forth across the mast and rigging during tacks and jibes.

Posted By: bullswan

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 01:22 AM

Thanks Jake, I should have realized you were answering the original question from a racing standpoint. I notice you are, in the pictures, using pinhead rather than square top sails. Is there a reason for this? I should have mentioned earlier that the prices quoted by Calvert were for square top although I'm not sure it affects the pricing. Is there any advantage, in your mind, to factory built vs. custom built sails? Or vice versa. I would assume they are using the same materials........

Greg
P.S. Appreciate your opinions very much. Thank you.

Posted By: PTP

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 02:14 AM

While we're on the subject- where would you recommend getting these sails? I live near Pensacola Fl.
We went out today in 15-20k winds and that plastic c r a p started peeling off like crazy on the jib. (capsized 2 times, the first because my crew - yes, you JP- had the dog bone break and fell in the water but decided to hold onto the mainsheet. The second time it was all jib- the main was all the way out. We actually capsized a 3rd time because when we were trying to right it after the second capsize we didn't unsheet the jib - JP's fault again of course- and it did the standard- "its coming up... almost there... here it is... oh... there it goes)

Posted By: Jake

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 02:43 AM

The pin head (pictured) is the Nacra 6.0NA class sail. The 6.0NA came about just before the square head "age".

In order to be class legal, for racing, on the 6.0NA you must have the sails supplied from Performance Catamarans....i.e. pin head.

Square head sails offer some performance gains over pin head - but most existing catamaran classes have yet to adopt them for a lot of reasons. EXACTLY why the square head offers an advantage is up for some debate (watch what I just started) - but it certainly allows you additional power up high that is easy and somewhat automatically depowered as needed. We even see monohulls beginning to adopt the square head main sail (did you see the last America's Cup?).

From a sailmaker's view point, getting a square head main sail to function properly can be tricky and it not only involves careful shaping of the sail up top, it also involves precise batten tuning nearest the top of the sail.

Posted By: bullswan

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 02:56 AM

I did. And I noticed the square tops. Can't wait for the debate you just launched. What time is it in North-West Europe anyway? I think I'll order the Dacron square-top as a replacement since the reasons not to don't bother me at the moment. I only have to listen to my wife and son and not the officals. They play by no rules.....

Greg

Posted By: Jake

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 02:59 AM

Dacron square top? I've never seen one of those...interesting.

Posted By: Ryan

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 05:57 AM

i noticed youre in navarre. my email is ryangalliford@yahoo.com , were in destin, we have tons of class info. might even be able to help you with the sail issue. you guys gonna do rti?

Posted By: wyatt

Do you furl your sails? - 09/06/05 02:24 PM

Just another thought on your jib because all the information or advice you received seemed correct:

If you furl your jib on a furling system and leave it sitting in the sun, you really cause a lot of damage to it. I thought the 6.0 had a batten in it near the top which makes it difficult to put a snorkel on it, but keeping the UV rays off it will help a lot.

If you take it off the boat after sailing, make sure it's dry and either rolled or flaked properly; you'll extend the life a bunch.

Smooth waters,

Wyatt

Posted By: Capt_Cardiac

Re: Sails - 09/06/05 09:39 PM

Alright, I'll admit that I(jp) busted yet another dogbone but in my defense I'm not sure I would have ever gotten picked back up if I didn't hold on to the mainsheet! It really was cool to see the nacra go over with a fully tightened mainsheet! I was approximately 15 feet directly astern. A perfect viewpoint!

Everything else that went wrong was the skippers fault! I'm just the crew looking to my skipper for guidance.

jp

Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: Sails - 09/07/05 05:24 PM

Here's a pic of my Calvert boomless dacron squaretop on my H17

Attached picture 57008-LeMe and Bev Leaving the Goose, I.H. 2001.jpg

Posted By: bullswan

Re: Sails - 09/07/05 06:57 PM

Hey Brian, is that the 5.5 weight? Or the 5.0? Are you happy with it?
Greg

Posted By: Brian_Mc

Re: Sails - 09/08/05 03:42 AM

Greg, Sorry I don't remember! When I ordered it, I said I wanted durability for "Fun sailing". I originally ordered it from Murray's, where it was advertised as coming with a window. It did not. I sent it back to Calvert via UPS the first winter, for bolt rope repairs,(no fault of theirs) and the window. I don't remember if they charged for the window, but thought they were very reasonable. They also left out the jib downhaul cleat, which Murray's later sent for free. I am very satisfied so far, though they've really only seen about two seasons worth of sailing.

Attached picture 57046-Coast Guard Beach, Cuttyhunk Island.jpg

Attached picture 57046-Coast Guard Beach, Cuttyhunk Island.jpg

Posted By: bullswan

Re: Sails - 09/08/05 12:24 PM

Thanks Brian,
That helps alot. I wish you could get that "durable" sail (I asked for the same thing with the same parameters) in colors....... That is my only hesitation at this point.
Greg