A Joke

I heard this joke a little while ago and I'm not sure I've got it right, but I'll pass it on. You may have heard this before.

Definition of heaven: British police, German cars, French food.

Definition of hell: British food, German police, French cars.

Have you Euro guys heard this?

Have a great sailing weekend!

David
H20

Hmm, I think it should read:
Definition of hell: British cars, German food, French police. ;-)

Since, unfortunately, I have never been to Europe, it is hard for me to appreciate your "joke." But I think my definition of heaven would probably include French multihulls.

Heaven :

A place where the cooks are French
The police are British
The mechanics are German
The lovers are Italian
And the whole place is run by the Swiss


Hell :

A place where the cooks are British
The police are German
The mechanics are French
The lovers are Swiss
And the whole place is run by the Italians

Somehow, I dont think this poor guy would agree...

You need to be real carefull with things like that.

Find me a police force that has not shot an innocent man.

An innocent man who should not have been in the UK as it happens, his visa had expired some time ago.

Totally disagree:

There is no excuse EVER for police to kill innocent people, considering police is supposed to protect people. not to threaten them (the now famous shoot-to-kill policy).

2. The guy was legal in the country

3. he was NOT running

4. he did not wear a big jacket

5 he was killed by SEVEN bullets while he was lying on the floor and already in control/

and so on and so on.

I really dislike this subservience to the authority even when they are TOTALLY wrong.

By the way, French cars: Renault just got formula one champion.

How it goes?
Show me a police force than never killed an innocent man and I'll show you a police force that never did anything....
What if the guy had blown them all to hell when they had him in a pile, would they be heroes or would we still say, "all those cops around and the guy still blew up all these poor innocent civilians..."
That is the full version of the joke.

what if, what if...

you sound so scared.

What are you ready to accept in the name of "safety" or an illusion of safety?

I'm ready to accept that present Government can't do much effective good at all.
I'm ready to accept that Democracy is the right system of government, and that it doesn't work for long, because humans have short memories when life is easy.
I'm scared of big government and the ability of financial/political power to fashion law.
I accept PHRF as a way to all get on the water and have fun.

One thing I should add is that having re-read my post above I should have said "....an innocent man after investigation."

Mistakes will ALWAYS be made. We are humans after all. Even the police are human, Tiger. I know they drill the police here on good guy/ bad guy targets and I assume they do in London as well. Personally, I'm not going to condemn a man (who goes through training and is committed to public safety AND has been putting his life on the line daily) for doing what he thought was right. I suspect I'm not alone.

And not that it matters to you , but was the guy there without a visa (and therefore illegally) or not? I haven't seen a definative word on that. Why? I have less sympathy for those committing illegal acts is all.

Finally, what makes me ill is those that NEVER have respect for the authority regardless of what they do.

Greg

Here is a novel idea.




Hey lets just shoot everybody who looks suspicious in the London subway, we're bound to get lucky some time. And afterall everybody was warned not to act suspiciously well in advance and even in non mistakable terms. So everybody who did act suspiciously and is killed can only blame himself for acting suspiciously !

Prefect reasoning I would say, no mistakes possible !

If only the REAL TERRORISTS would comply to the set out rules and act suspiciously. You know like, not shave themselfs for a few days and wear red bandana's with jihadi texts. But of course these evil f#ckers, deviant as they are, will now try their utmost to appear like normal business men. Just like our man, Scooby here.

Darn, what now. humm, lets see.

Hey, lets just warn everybody not to act like business men and just shoot all the suits on sight. At least they can't say that they weren't warned, right ? And were bound to get lucky sooner or later. And we are seen to at least be doing something. Right ?

... Right ? ...

What ? no cheers from the white shirt and tie crowd this time ?




All this white (business class) trash should remember one important thing, as written down by the German anti-Nazi activist, Pastor Martin Niemöller



First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Catholic

Then when they came for me and other protestants
nobody protested or came to my defense
None were left that could.

I've seen a version of the original joke with even more nationalities involved than Wouter' version, but can't quite remember the text - sorry. Still, I am tempted to update it, so that Brazilians would be wining Laser regattas in heaven - 8th Worlds title for Robert Scheit last week - and running (in) the London tube in hell...

Some loose comments that will certainly NOT put an end to the current discussion, but may interest you:

-The major and more serious weekly Brazilian magazine "Veja" dedicated more space to comment negatively on the many organizations and people who tried to use the accident for their own political objectives than to the fact itself.

- Another local press comment: worse than the accident, is the fact that the odds of a Brazilian citizen being shot by mistake in some areas of Rio or Sao Paulo are worse than they were in London, with a "shoot to kill" policy in force.

- The press reported the story mostly as a bad and sad police mistake, surrounded by lots of publicity and deserving discussion not only of the "shoot and kill" policy, but also of the current balance between freedom and safety.

My opinions:

- Legal or illegal, the guy just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, resembling the wrong terrorist and speaking with an odd accent. Sh&t happens.

- Terrorists like to get Brazilian passports because anyone can pass for a Brazilian. Due to a large population of immigrants from all around the world, Brazilians' faces and names may be Arab, European, African, Oriental, etc. My guess is that the Brazilian passport might have increased the police's perception that the guy was a real terrorist.

- An intriguing question is: how do the Israeli police handle similar situations? If they'd commit a mistake like that, the world's negative reaction would have been stronger and last longer, with heavier consequences for the country. And they have reason to enforce that policy ALL the time.

Thanks for the poem Wouter. It leaves aside homosexuals and some other minorities that Nazis killed, but the point is clear and correct: pragmatism has a limit. So the whole discussion circles around two questions:

1) How much freedom is reasonable to sacrifice for safety?

2) How much pragmatism is acceptable before the application of higher principles becomes mandatory?

I guess there is no exact answer for those two, but this has nothing to do with sailing, so I’ll leave you with a question I actually would like to get answers for:

Anyone knows a sailor who has won eight or more World Championships in one class? Paul Elvstrom won 12 Worlds, but in about six classes.

Thanks.

....what this thread turned into....

:rolleyes:

You had me all the way to the end then you blew it! GO OD!

Dave,
The key word is "accept." That's a lot different from want, desire, crave, etc. For many people handicap racing is an "acceptable" alternative when you can't have one-design racing.

Here's some simple math for you:

Catsailor.com = sailing
Catsailor.com >> politics
Therefore, sailing >> politics.
This thread isn't sailing........kill it.

Trey
N20 873
Layline.com

Here's some simple math for you:

Catsailor.com = sailing
Catsailor.com >> politics
Therefore, sailing >> politics.
This thread isn't sailing........kill it.


I second this motion

That's it! Boy did I have a shorthand version stored in my memory, but that's what happens as you get older. The version I heard substituted cars for mechanics and women for lovers. This version works better for both sexes.

There are three things you lose as you age; your hair, your eyesight, and...I can't remember the third thing.

This community is truly amazing (and entertaining). We go from a joke to European politics and policing, and then, somehow, to handicap vs. one design. Truly great leaps in hijacking, but fun.

David
H20 781

Heaven:
Any place with french multihulls, and maybe some monohulls as well

OK, my two cents worth...

I think that unless you have been in the position where you have had to daily defend yourself against people who would give anything to blow themselves up taking you and as many bystanders with them in the name of a twisted version of an otherwise peaceful religion, you should start talking about sailing and not politics. It's so easy for us to judge in hindsight. I'm guilty of this, too; just not with this particular instance. I think that if we were in the same situation, there aren't many of us who wouldn't have shot him. It sucks, but that is war. This is not an American war, it is a worldwide war against terrorism. There are going to be innocent casualties.
P.S. Did I tell you guys I am having a custom trailer made for my Nacra 5.2... it's sweet.

-Rob V.
Nacra 5.2
Panama City

I used our snuffer head as a tennis racket this weekend.

The chicks digged it.

Take just half the worlds budget spent on "arms", redirect it towards eliminating poverty, disease, and starvation, education to an acceptable "global" standard, and give everyone a “common interest” by making it compulsory that "ever child be taught how to sail”, and there would be no "terrorism".
What good are guns unless they are discharged? What good is “power” unless it is used (or abused) to “control” the disenfranchised? What good is food unless it is eaten? What good are the “starving” unless they die? What good is “wealth” unless it is distributed? Money is valueless in it’s own right, it is only good for what it can buy/do, and there appear to be three “main” choices, 1, hoard it, 2. Waste it, 3. Use it to improve the “common good”. It is, after all, just a convenient means of “barter”!
The biggest problem with “power” is that it is always in the hands of the “powerful”, and the more power that they have, the more power that they want. “ A little power corrupts, total power corrupts totally” and after all what is the point of having great power if it is not exercised whether justified are not? If it is not imposed, there seems to be no real point in having it. (This is always the “logic” of the powerfully endowed).

No you didn't. Tell us more...... Galvanized, Aluminum?
Painted? Why custom? You will show pictures right? Mine is, I guess, customized by stretching it wider and adding rollers and a mast holder but otherwise just a plain old galvanized trailer. By the way CAN you paint successfully galvanized trailers?
I thought that might be a nice winter project.
Greg

I have a friend here who is an all around cool person to know. He refurbishes and repairs boats. He can pretty much fabricate anything anyone would need for a boat. He had a person barter a double-jetski trailer that he offered to me if I bought the steel for the crossbars and rollers. It is plain steel but it will probably never touch the water. We usually just roll up next to the Nacra on the beach and with a friend, we just lift the boat onto the trailer. Anyway... he welded the crossbars on and I have the roller section setup to slide in and out so the width is completely adjustable. I have been borrowing a friends trailer that is set up for a H16, but it is too narrow for the Nacra. I have been putting 2X4s across for the boat to sit on so it doesn't get damaged by the rollers on the H16 trailer. I will take some pictures when it is done. It won't be as pretty as galvanized,(I'm painting it) but it will be extremely functional. It has a wider axle so it will ride much nicer too. He also is going to set up a turnbuckle system to keep the boat on the trailer so that I won't have to use the wrap around straps. I will only use it when I need to make repairs or when the storms come through. I need some way of getting the boat off the beach when the storms come through. I have been very lucky the past couple of years. I don't want to push it.

The best part about this whole trailer thing is that we are converting something that was designed for "smokers" and now have converted it to a sailing tool. Life is good.

-Rob V.

The most versatile and useful trailer we have is an older galvanized trailer, and I don't even remember why or when we ended up with it. But we made it into a flatbed using two sheets of 4x8 plywood. We can carry any of our boats on it. Right now we use it to transport three Hobie Waves. And it works to haul furniture, too.

I agree, he deserved to die because his visa had expired !!!
good going pal..